So the more I play Amonkhet limited, the more I appreciate just how good some of the Aftermath cards really are given that most of them area guaranteed 2 for 1 and in most casual metas you usually have enough time to play both halves of the card. My experience in Commander circles since Amonkhet has been released is that these cards are rarely seeing any play. I'm curious which (if any) of the 15 Aftermath cards fro Amonkhet anyone is running in their Commander decks.
Dusk // Dawn - Dusk is an interesting take on a selective Wrath effect, but Dawn seems like it could be really good but it pales in comparison to something like Reveillark. Commit // Memory - This is one that I am running in my Oona deck that really wants the Windfall effect, but Commit is proving to be pretty powerful. I think that of all the Aftermath cards printed, this is the one I have seen the most often in Commander. Never // Return - Flexible removal is fine and you are getting good value, but each of the things it does isn't better than other options. Insult // Injury - Doubling things in Commander is inherently dangerous. I tried it in my Gisels Burn deck and I ended up taking it out. Mouth // Feed - If you are interested in big tokens like Trostani or Titania I can see this being amazing, but I haven't seen anyone play this yet. Failure // Comply - Kinda like Remand but otherwise unexciting. Rags // Riches - Riches seems like a worthwhile effect, especially after Rags to clear out the small stuff. But its also expensive and Infest effects are rarely played. Cut // Ribbons - 4 damage can hit a lot of creatures so Cut should be very relevant as a removal spell, and tacking on an X-spell finisher that hits all opponents seems like it should see way more play than it does. Heaven // Earth - Hurricane and Earthquake get more traction because they can be used as a finisher, so I'm unsure whether anyone really has a use for this. Prepare // Fight - Seems good, but not compared to other options for either removal or lifegain. Start // Finish - Seems solid enough, but unspectacular Spring // Mind - Spring is worse than several 2-mana Rampant Growth options, and Mind is worse than pretty much every Divination option. Destined // Lead - I've seen this card blow people out in limited, but in EDH this seems to fall under 'too cute' Onward // Victory - Seems like the perfect card for one-shot kills Reduce // Rubble - Reduce seems at least somewhat playable, but Rubble seems terrible.
So yeah, what are other player's experiences with the Aftermath cards?
Although some of them are terrible, there are a couple of other factors that leave them out in the cold.
Our meta is very fast, and quite powerful. Often you won't get time to use both halves. Also, there is a small additional casting cost you pay for the additional flexibility of casting both halves. My decks have a very strong preference for low casting cost spell.
The other is that they compete for slots with other proven cards. Overall they are worse than comparable options.
I want to use them, and I've tried once or twice, but the sheer fact that they are designed solely with right handedness in mind, I don't get to do the fun "turn to the side" thing they do. As this actually takes away from some of the novelty of them, I tend to avoid them.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest can make use of all the ones that suits its color. Each card offers two chances of Prowess and double strike (for different creatures if necessary).
I want to use them, and I've tried once or twice, but the sheer fact that they are designed solely with right handedness in mind, I don't get to do the fun "turn to the side" thing they do. As this actually takes away from some of the novelty of them, I tend to avoid them.
I don't understand. Is it awkward for a left handed person to have the card sticking out of the right side of the graveyard?
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I'm just spit balling here but I'm guessing that most right handed players will place the library and graveyard on the right. So turning the card as such makes it legible.
When both is place on the left, the turned card is now upside down relative to the player.
This isn't a big deal when the card is so far forward on the table. But back towards the elbow, the difference is noticeable.
I'm just spit balling here but I'm guessing that most right handed players will place the library and graveyard on the right. So turning the card as such makes it legible.
When both is place on the left, the turned card is now upside down relative to the player.
This isn't a big deal when the card is so far forward on the table. But back towards the elbow, the difference is noticeable.
As a right handed player, I place my deck and graveyard on whichever side isn't the center of the table during multiplayer games and on the left for 1v1. I also don't turn these sideways in the yard, so this entire line of thinking is very odd to me. Does anyone else have concerns about the orientation of the GY half of these?
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I am currently running Commit//Memory in Sidisi as a replacement for Time Reversal. It is 1 mana more, but the deck is heavy on self milling, so a Twister effect I can play from the graveyard is very useful. The "Commit" side is just icing on the cake.
I am actually in the process of ordering a foil Dusk//Dawn for Alesha, Who Smiles at Death. Conveniently, all but 3 cards in the deck have a power of 2 or less so it generally ends up being very good for me. I plan on cutting Wrath of God for now (unfortunate as I just picked up the Invocation).
I'm using Insult // Injury in two of my decks, Jaya and TnT (Thras & Tarl). I drew it in Jaya the other night. I managed to win, but the card didn't help much. I just discarded it and later cast Injury to little effect. But I have high hopes about Forking Insult.
I'm just spit balling here but I'm guessing that most right handed players will place the library and graveyard on the right. So turning the card as such makes it legible.
When both is place on the left, the turned card is now upside down relative to the player.
This isn't a big deal when the card is so far forward on the table. But back towards the elbow, the difference is noticeable.
As a right handed player, I place my deck and graveyard on whichever side isn't the center of the table during multiplayer games and on the left for 1v1. I also don't turn these sideways in the yard, so this entire line of thinking is very odd to me. Does anyone else have concerns about the orientation of the GY half of these?
It's more of just a nitpick. Because of an injury I have memory issues when it comes to certain pieces of information, so the half sticking out is a helpful thing to me, but beyond that I also liked the idea of the cards. It just doesn't work with me because of my always having my deck and graveyard to the left of me (graveyard to the left of my deck). I think they are cool, and wish that Commit // Memory and Mouth // Feed worked for me, but as I said, it is hard for me with my handedness and my head issues. Not problems that they need to bend over for me to fix, just doesn't work well for me.
I'm using Insult // Injury in two of my decks, Jaya and TnT (Thras & Tarl). I drew it in Jaya the other night. I managed to win, but the card didn't help much. I just discarded it and later cast Injury to little effect. But I have high hopes about Forking Insult.
Oh...oh dear God, the pain...the HUMANITY! lol >.<
Haven't gotten any of these cards myself, but none really strike me as must-haves in my decks anyway. Commit//Memory may be an exception(I could see that working in my Niv deck), but yeah...not really wowed.
I'm just spit balling here but I'm guessing that most right handed players will place the library and graveyard on the right. So turning the card as such makes it legible.
When both is place on the left, the turned card is now upside down relative to the player.
This isn't a big deal when the card is so far forward on the table. But back towards the elbow, the difference is noticeable.
As a right handed player, I place my deck and graveyard on whichever side isn't the center of the table during multiplayer games and on the left for 1v1. I also don't turn these sideways in the yard, so this entire line of thinking is very odd to me. Does anyone else have concerns about the orientation of the GY half of these?
I don't really like them but not exactly for the reason cited above. But that reason is not for discussion here.
I play with my L and GY to my right. I keep my bag of tokens, counter, dice and odd cards (like DFC) to the left. Muscle memory lets me draw or discard cards. The exception occurs if a player to my right has his deck on the left then I switch to avoid him grabbing my cards... or if there's an open can of soda nearest to my deck....
My comment is an observation of players who play goofy side (regular for you skateborders) and how they have to reorient their GY with the new cards.
Just putting out there, that GY recursion and throwing your GY back in your deck is a thing with EDH... You use the second half and the entire card goes bye bye. That may be the reason that some of these cards don't see as much play as expected.
Though I'm running Dawn to Dusk in a BW tokens deck... Pulling it's weight too...
I've been playing commit // memory, dusk // dawn and spring // mind in my Kynaios and Tiro deck. All have proven to be really useful. Dusk // Dawn is basically one side wrath that also gets all of my stuff back. Spring // Mind seems kinda overcosted but 3 cmc rampant growth doesn't hurt my curve and fixing my bad mana base is really helpful. Later in the game Mind side gives some fuel. My deck can ramp pretty hard so the overcosted nature doesn't hinder too much. It also helps that I have bunch of random discard outlets that I can get value out of.
Just putting out there, that GY recursion and throwing your GY back in your deck is a thing with EDH... You use the second half and the entire card goes bye bye. That may be the reason that some of these cards don't see as much play as expected.
I think people are just overly attached to their graveyards. In edh you have 100 cards it really doesn't matter if one or ten of them gets exiled.
Casually milling these won't end the world, which is what I love about them. I'm going to strip down my Geth deck to make either a Nekusar or Wrex deck, and I think each one available in those colors could work in the deck.
Ignoring that they look atrocious, the biggest issue with them is that almost every one is a sorcery! Never/Return? Just run the instant versions of those cards! Failure/Comply? All those white permission spells are instants! Second biggest might be that they nerfed the cmc of split cards, so they all have higher cmcs now (well, maybe Vial Smasher likes it). Third actually might go back to the design: People might forget you have a flashback card in the GY because it looks normal. No one forgets these because they are jarring.
I do think they have a niche role, though, like many cards in the set. I would be fine if we got more.
I'm just spit balling here but I'm guessing that most right handed players will place the library and graveyard on the right. So turning the card as such makes it legible.
When both is place on the left, the turned card is now upside down relative to the player.
This isn't a big deal when the card is so far forward on the table. But back towards the elbow, the difference is noticeable.
As a right handed player, I place my deck and graveyard on whichever side isn't the center of the table during multiplayer games and on the left for 1v1. I also don't turn these sideways in the yard, so this entire line of thinking is very odd to me. Does anyone else have concerns about the orientation of the GY half of these?
As a left handed player, I almost always place my deck and graveyard on the right (although if I have an opponent on my right, I'll move them to the left so my opponent can see my board better). It feels weird to me to draw cards from the left
Just putting out there, that GY recursion and throwing your GY back in your deck is a thing with EDH... You use the second half and the entire card goes bye bye. That may be the reason that some of these cards don't see as much play as expected.
I think people are just overly attached to their graveyards. In edh you have 100 cards it really doesn't matter if one or ten of them gets exiled.
I agree. I'd much rather have guaranteed utility in the yard than a slim chance of shuffling and drawing a second time. I've played a lot of flashback recursion and delve spells and never missed the exiled cards. The hangup on these is that both sides are overcosted in most cases and I don't necessarily want to spend a slot on the initial effect.
I'm running Dusk // Dawn in various Kondo brews, Insult // Injury in a couple aggressive decks, and Cut // Ribbons in any BRx deck that expects to go long right now. I like the effects on a couple of the others and I picked up copies of most of them but they're too expensive for the effects for my taste, especially on the front end.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
And i will propably replace my Ruinous Paths with Never // Returns. While the secondary use is overpriced it's still better than the Awaken possibility in all of my decks.
I'm just spit balling here but I'm guessing that most right handed players will place the library and graveyard on the right. So turning the card as such makes it legible.
When both is place on the left, the turned card is now upside down relative to the player.
This isn't a big deal when the card is so far forward on the table. But back towards the elbow, the difference is noticeable.
Only savages who wear a wristwatch on their dominant arms do that. Library and watch go on the left for a righty.
Ahem... To the point, I'm trying Dawn // Dusk in Queen Marchesa stax/hatebears. None of the others appeal to me.
Running only Insult // Injury right now, it's recently gone in my Kari Zev Monkey Voltron deck. Have yet to see how it will perform but at least on paper it should do some stuff.
I'm just spit balling here but I'm guessing that most right handed players will place the library and graveyard on the right. So turning the card as such makes it legible.
When both is place on the left, the turned card is now upside down relative to the player.
This isn't a big deal when the card is so far forward on the table. But back towards the elbow, the difference is noticeable.
Only savages who wear a wristwatch on their dominant arms do that. Library and watch go on the left for a righty.
I have my watch on my dominant arm and place my deck on my non-dominant side. Am I an abomination unto god?
Dusk // Dawn is a powerhouse in my Karador and Kemba decks.
Mouth // Feed has been very effective for Xenages, attacking as a 6/6 and drawing cards downt he line is very solid.
Rags // Riches functions as a role player in Grixis control, though has been medicore in political Tasigur. Contorl is happy with both sides, but the first half doesn't pack the oomph I otherwise want to see.
Cut // Ribbons is my second favorite of these cards decent removal packed with a multiplayer finisher basically makes this a must-have if your deck is in R/B.
Spring // Mind is actually my favorite of these effects. It's elegant in design, slightly overpaying for both effects but throwing mana ramp and card advantage into one card is the definiton of good.
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Dusk // Dawn - Dusk is an interesting take on a selective Wrath effect, but Dawn seems like it could be really good but it pales in comparison to something like Reveillark.
Commit // Memory - This is one that I am running in my Oona deck that really wants the Windfall effect, but Commit is proving to be pretty powerful. I think that of all the Aftermath cards printed, this is the one I have seen the most often in Commander.
Never // Return - Flexible removal is fine and you are getting good value, but each of the things it does isn't better than other options.
Insult // Injury - Doubling things in Commander is inherently dangerous. I tried it in my Gisels Burn deck and I ended up taking it out.
Mouth // Feed - If you are interested in big tokens like Trostani or Titania I can see this being amazing, but I haven't seen anyone play this yet.
Failure // Comply - Kinda like Remand but otherwise unexciting.
Rags // Riches - Riches seems like a worthwhile effect, especially after Rags to clear out the small stuff. But its also expensive and Infest effects are rarely played.
Cut // Ribbons - 4 damage can hit a lot of creatures so Cut should be very relevant as a removal spell, and tacking on an X-spell finisher that hits all opponents seems like it should see way more play than it does.
Heaven // Earth - Hurricane and Earthquake get more traction because they can be used as a finisher, so I'm unsure whether anyone really has a use for this.
Prepare // Fight - Seems good, but not compared to other options for either removal or lifegain.
Start // Finish - Seems solid enough, but unspectacular
Spring // Mind - Spring is worse than several 2-mana Rampant Growth options, and Mind is worse than pretty much every Divination option.
Destined // Lead - I've seen this card blow people out in limited, but in EDH this seems to fall under 'too cute'
Onward // Victory - Seems like the perfect card for one-shot kills
Reduce // Rubble - Reduce seems at least somewhat playable, but Rubble seems terrible.
So yeah, what are other player's experiences with the Aftermath cards?
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
Although some of them are terrible, there are a couple of other factors that leave them out in the cold.
Our meta is very fast, and quite powerful. Often you won't get time to use both halves. Also, there is a small additional casting cost you pay for the additional flexibility of casting both halves. My decks have a very strong preference for low casting cost spell.
The other is that they compete for slots with other proven cards. Overall they are worse than comparable options.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Asides from myself, I know someone who is using Insult to Injury and someone who wants to use Spring to Mind in a Rashmi deck.
And Dusk // Dawn in a low costed Tymna deck. Both are pretty nice effects. I love 2-for-1 cards in EDH.
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I don't understand. Is it awkward for a left handed person to have the card sticking out of the right side of the graveyard?
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
When both is place on the left, the turned card is now upside down relative to the player.
This isn't a big deal when the card is so far forward on the table. But back towards the elbow, the difference is noticeable.
I am actually in the process of ordering a foil Dusk//Dawn for Alesha, Who Smiles at Death. Conveniently, all but 3 cards in the deck have a power of 2 or less so it generally ends up being very good for me. I plan on cutting Wrath of God for now (unfortunate as I just picked up the Invocation).
It's more of just a nitpick. Because of an injury I have memory issues when it comes to certain pieces of information, so the half sticking out is a helpful thing to me, but beyond that I also liked the idea of the cards. It just doesn't work with me because of my always having my deck and graveyard to the left of me (graveyard to the left of my deck). I think they are cool, and wish that Commit // Memory and Mouth // Feed worked for me, but as I said, it is hard for me with my handedness and my head issues. Not problems that they need to bend over for me to fix, just doesn't work well for me.
Oh...oh dear God, the pain...the HUMANITY! lol >.<
Haven't gotten any of these cards myself, but none really strike me as must-haves in my decks anyway. Commit//Memory may be an exception(I could see that working in my Niv deck), but yeah...not really wowed.
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
I don't really like them but not exactly for the reason cited above. But that reason is not for discussion here.
I play with my L and GY to my right. I keep my bag of tokens, counter, dice and odd cards (like DFC) to the left. Muscle memory lets me draw or discard cards. The exception occurs if a player to my right has his deck on the left then I switch to avoid him grabbing my cards... or if there's an open can of soda nearest to my deck....
My comment is an observation of players who play goofy side (regular for you skateborders) and how they have to reorient their GY with the new cards.
Though I'm running Dawn to Dusk in a BW tokens deck... Pulling it's weight too...
Goblin Green Acres
I think people are just overly attached to their graveyards. In edh you have 100 cards it really doesn't matter if one or ten of them gets exiled.
Ignoring that they look atrocious, the biggest issue with them is that almost every one is a sorcery! Never/Return? Just run the instant versions of those cards! Failure/Comply? All those white permission spells are instants! Second biggest might be that they nerfed the cmc of split cards, so they all have higher cmcs now (well, maybe Vial Smasher likes it). Third actually might go back to the design: People might forget you have a flashback card in the GY because it looks normal. No one forgets these because they are jarring.
I do think they have a niche role, though, like many cards in the set. I would be fine if we got more.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
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I'm running Dusk // Dawn in various Kondo brews, Insult // Injury in a couple aggressive decks, and Cut // Ribbons in any BRx deck that expects to go long right now. I like the effects on a couple of the others and I picked up copies of most of them but they're too expensive for the effects for my taste, especially on the front end.
And i will propably replace my Ruinous Paths with Never // Returns. While the secondary use is overpriced it's still better than the Awaken possibility in all of my decks.
Only savages who wear a wristwatch on their dominant arms do that. Library and watch go on the left for a righty.
Ahem... To the point, I'm trying Dawn // Dusk in Queen Marchesa stax/hatebears. None of the others appeal to me.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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Mouth // Feed has been very effective for Xenages, attacking as a 6/6 and drawing cards downt he line is very solid.
Rags // Riches functions as a role player in Grixis control, though has been medicore in political Tasigur. Contorl is happy with both sides, but the first half doesn't pack the oomph I otherwise want to see.
Cut // Ribbons is my second favorite of these cards decent removal packed with a multiplayer finisher basically makes this a must-have if your deck is in R/B.
Spring // Mind is actually my favorite of these effects. It's elegant in design, slightly overpaying for both effects but throwing mana ramp and card advantage into one card is the definiton of good.