MTG Salvation

Ok so my group of 4 buddies have all decided to build commander decks to play in a couple weeks.
I chose to run slivers.. And a 5color sliver deck at that

YES i know
-not very immagitative
-will get ganged up on
-going to be slow without fetches
-yada yada

I know there are a couple draw backs but i already had a sliver overlord and about 30 slivers from a casual deck i made awhile back.

So since i already had prob 60-100 cards i needed i decided to go for it.


Here is my question. CAN I GET RID OF THE PANORAMAS FOR MORE LANDS THAT PRODUCE ALL COLORS???
Or is there an importance to having those panoramas

So I'm loosely filling my mana out by using this guide

10 fetch lands
10 dual lands
4 lands that produce every color
14 basic lands
8 accelerants

So right now for the 10 fetches I'm running
All 5 of the Mirage
Grasslands,mountain valley, rocky tar pit bad river and flooded plains
4 of the panorama
Grixis Panorama, Esper panorama, Bant panorama, Jund Panorama
And 1 Krosan Verge

For the 10 Duals/Shocks I'm running
5 M10 check duals
Drowned catacomb Glacial Fortress Sunpetal Grove
Dragonskull summit and Rootbound Craig
5 battle for zendikar check lands
Cinder Glade,Sunken hollow
Praire stream,smoldering marsh,Canopy Vista

8 accelerants are
Chromatic Latern,Armillary Sphere,Astral CornucopiaCommander's Sphere,Darksteel Ingot,Fellwar Stone,Vessel of Endless Rest,Wayfarer's Bauble

4 mana of any color are
Command Tower
Ancient Ziggurat
Sliver Hive
City of Brass

SO as i stated in my question above can i add cards like Rupture spire, shimmering grotto, Exotic orchard and Transguild Promenade. In place of the Panoramas?

I would love to get better fetches but NOT willing to spend $16-$40 on the fetches at the moment.

So plz let me know if you think adding what i suggested will work or if it won't.And what other options i have with a very small budget

Thanks

Panoramas only get basics, and should not be played in a 5 color deck. Krosan verge can get you BFZ Battle lands at least.

Armillary sphere doesn't accelerate mana. I know Sol Ring doesn't cast your general, but it should still be in the deck. I would also recommend Farseek, as it gets you a Battle for Zendikar "Battle land". You can also look at Cultivate and Kodama's Reach.
If you are playing sub-optimal lands, you will want more mana fixing spells. Explosive Vegetation, Skyshroud Claim (again, getting the BFZ Battle lands), Tempt with Discovery are all good options.

You can play things like Forbidden Orchard, Exotic Orchard and Mana Confluence. Reflecting pool is very good.

Instead of the Shimmering Grotto, look at Opal Palace.

The M10 Checklands are not the best choices. For instance, they tap for the same ally-colours as the BFZ Battle lands. The enemy colour versions (Woodland Cemetery, Sulfur Falls, etc.) are more expensive.
The Mirage fetches you are using are also the allied pairs.

You need to have some enemy lands. The Painlands were recently printed (Battlefield Forge, Llanowar Wastes, etc).
There are also the Vivid lands (Vivid Creek, etc)

I think your mana base should be:
5 mirage fetches
5 BFZ battle lands
9 5-colour lands: Command Tower, Ancient Ziggurat, Sliver Hive, City of Brass, Forbidden Orchard, Exotic Orchard, Mana Confluence, Opal Palace, Reflecting Pool
5 enemy painlands
10 basics
5 Vivid lands

And you should add green mana accelerating spells, as I listed. Also Manaweft Sliver and Gemhide Sliver.

The BFZ Battle Lands will likely come into play tapped with only 10 basics, but basics are really bad to draw in multiples - you won't be able to cast anything. Cycle lands could probably work better, but you will need to test it out.

Depending on the colours of your spells, you will probably change some of these for more green sources or sources of other dominant colours.

The better option may be to go heavy on the green and select two of the other colors to focus on with the other two as a splash. You can probably stretch that to heavy green, 3 primary colors, and one splash color. Rampant Growth, Nature's Lore, Farseek, Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, Explosive Vegetation, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Burnished Hart, and Solemn Simulacrum can make for a solid core to build your mana base around. Coupled with your five Mirage fetches, your 10 duals, the four 5-color lands, 8-9 Forests, and 10-11 other basics, Gemhide Sliver, Manaweft Sliver, some mana rocks and you'll be surprised how well the mana works.

Nature's Lore, Farseek, Skyshroud Claim, Safewright Quest, Ranger's path are all nice in that they grab lands of basic land types (though mostly Forests), not basics, so all the Ravnica Shocks, the BfZ Battlelands, and the new Cycling lands from Amonkhet.

Sylvan Scrying and Crop Rotation are nice for grabbing the special lands.

There's also the new Cascading Cataracts from Amonkhet which, while it does set you back one mana, is great for filtering lots of it.

Quote from Dunharrow »

The M10 Checklands are not the best choices. For instance, they tap for the same ally-colours as the BFZ Battle lands. The enemy colour versions (Woodland Cemetery, Sulfur Falls, etc.) are more expensive.
The Mirage fetches you are using are also the allied pairs.

You need to have some enemy lands. The Painlands were recently printed (Battlefield Forge, Llanowar Wastes, etc).
There are also the Vivid lands (Vivid Creek, etc)

I think your mana base should be:
5 mirage fetches
5 BFZ battle lands
9 5-colour lands: Command Tower, Ancient Ziggurat, Sliver Hive, City of Brass, Forbidden Orchard, Exotic Orchard, Mana Confluence, Opal Palace, Reflecting Pool
5 enemy painlands
10 basics
5 Vivid lands

Ok i don't mind spending $5 a card so if i follow the above format you suggested
Could i add the Innistrad check lands Sulfur falls and the other 4 enemy lands?

If i make those additions do i still buy 5 Enemy pain lands or can i just stick with the 5 vivids you added. I already own the vivids and prefer them over the pain lands that damage me but never ran either pain or vivid in my decks so not sure how well each work.

Guess I'm asking which 5 to take out and which to keep.

Thanks for your extensive help

When i quote you does is notify you?

Quote from Fr0sty711 »

Quote from Dunharrow »

The M10 Checklands are not the best choices. For instance, they tap for the same ally-colours as the BFZ Battle lands. The enemy colour versions (Woodland Cemetery, Sulfur Falls, etc.) are more expensive.
The Mirage fetches you are using are also the allied pairs.

You need to have some enemy lands. The Painlands were recently printed (Battlefield Forge, Llanowar Wastes, etc).
There are also the Vivid lands (Vivid Creek, etc)

I think your mana base should be:
5 mirage fetches
5 BFZ battle lands
9 5-colour lands: Command Tower, Ancient Ziggurat, Sliver Hive, City of Brass, Forbidden Orchard, Exotic Orchard, Mana Confluence, Opal Palace, Reflecting Pool
5 enemy painlands
10 basics
5 Vivid lands

Ok i don't mind spending $5 a card so if i follow the above format you suggested
Could i add the Innistrad check lands Sulfur falls and the other 4 enemy lands?

If i make those additions do i still buy 5 Enemy pain lands or can i just stick with the 5 vivids you added. I already own the vivids and prefer them over the pain lands that damage me but never ran either pain or vivid in my decks so not sure how well each work.

Guess I'm asking which 5 to take out and which to keep.

Thanks for your extensive help

Yes, I get notified when you quote me.

You can do the 5 Innistrad check lands over the pain lands or over the vivids. I feel like you have a lot of lands entering tapped...
You can even do a split. You don't need full cycles of lands, and you will probably find that you want more green sources than other colours.

I like the Tri-Land's (i.e Arcane Sanctum) because they produce 60% of your colors, with Amulet of Vigor and leaning towards green to fetch (Sylvan Scrying, ect). Theory being if a land has to enter tapped, might as well produce 60% of your mana. 5-Color Commander: Building a Budget Mana Base by Ed Grabianowski has been very helpful in the past.

Quote from Action_Mane »

I like the Tri-Land's (i.e Arcane Sanctum) because they produce 60% of your colors, with Amulet of Vigor and leaning towards green to fetch (Sylvan Scrying, ect). Theory being if a land has to enter tapped, might as well produce 60% of your mana. 5-Color Commander: Building a Budget Mana Base by Ed Grabianowski has been very helpful in the past.

Thanks for this.. Article was a good read and I'll apply some of the cards and ideas he mentioned

I would use the thread about pauper/budget Child of Alara for an idea on how to do a 5 color mana base on the cheap (I presume that is what you mean when you say no fetches).

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/variant-commander/553880-pauper-budget-crushing-dreams-on-a-budget-child

Hmm, i have always had dual, shock, filter and check lands when i play 5 color so i will have a little trouble but let's see if i ca help.

Well with a lack of budget i guess your best bet would have to be basics. While that does not sound ideal, with a fair amount of fetch it actually works.

That said, any "come into play tap" lands works wonders with Amulet of Vigor. ( i would suggest grabbing all 10 tri lands)

Odyssey filters could also be wonderful to use. (average 5 bucks each, sadly only ally colors)

Chromatic lantern may be a superpower here.

Pillar of Paruns can help as well. so long as you are casting a multicolored spell Grab a command tower, Opal palace and while you are at it, if you can Reflecting pool, Exotic Orchard and Forbidden orchard. Crystal Quarry also provides help. (Actually these mixed with odyssey filters and basic lands could be a very budget friendly mana base.

You can also look at Vivid Lands.