I am trying to run at least 10 card draw cards in my commander decks. I am having a difficult time comming up with good card draw for my Godo, Bandit Warlord deck.
Smuggler's Copter is not card draw, so it can be cut. Humble Defector gives your opponents more card draw over time, so unless you have a sac outlet you should skip that as well. Skullclamp might not be ideal if you go voltron or creature light, but it's generally a good include so keep it for now but flag it for playtesting. Grenzo, Havoc Raiser is amazing with evasive equipments, which you should have plenty of in this deck. Keep it. Prophetic Flamespeaker is probably good for the same reason. Memory Jar is solid. Mind's Eye is the best card draw you have access to, never cut it. Sword of Fire and Ice is also an autoinclude. Dragon Mage gives your opponents more card advantage than you, and should be cut.
Now for some suggestions: Outpost Siege is in my top 5 red card draw list, it's amazing. Often better than Grenzo and flamespeaker since they both need to connect to give you card advantage, while this card just sits there and does it every turn regardless.
The new Oracle's Vault is basically an Outpost Siege with a 2 mana upkeep cost for three turns, after which it turns into basically an Aetherworks Marvel without energy cost. Highly recommended. Avarice Amulet pumps and gives you a card every upkeep. Only equip on your general so it doesn't change controller. Mask of Memory nets you a card and throws in some selection as well, it's really good. Assuming you have evasion of course. Rogue's Gloves is the same as above, minus the selection. Staff of Nin costs a lot to cast, but then it's a free card every turn. Definitely worth the initial cost. Tamiyo's Journal gives free clues every turn and can also tutor if you want. I always include it in my red and white decks. Magnifying Glass has a hideous activation cost, 6 mana for one card! However, it's also a mana rock and thus useful the entire game. I've found that it's very nice to have lying around lategame when you're out of cards but have a bazillion mana available. But don't count it as actual card draw since it's so expensive to activate, include it in your mana rock count and see the occasional clue as a bonus instead.
You should never play wheel effects in Commander, since they give your opponents way more card advantage than you (unless you're playing combo of course, then they're amazing). Also, filtering is not card advantage and should not be played outside graveyard shenanigans.
You should never play wheel effects in Commander, since they give your opponents way more card advantage than you (unless you're playing combo of course, then they're amazing). Also, filtering is not card advantage and should not be played outside graveyard shenanigans.
I have to disagree.
If filtering effects should not be played outside of graveyard interactions, then why is Sensei's Divining Top a top class card? (no pun intended ). If you are mana flooded then discarding a couple of lands is not an issue when you draw 3 spells that you need and vice versa.
Also Wheel Effects may provide card draw to your opponents, however when timed correctly you get full draw and no card loss and you opponents can loose a great deal of cards this way. In a best case scenario you can draw 7 cards for 2R with Wheel of Fortune.
There are pros and cons to both spells, but i feel that there are more pros than cons.
Wheel of Fortune effects when played properly are the way to go for draw.
If you only have a couple cards in hand, not only do you completely disrupt anyone elses planned moves, getting a full grip is worth the giving a few cards to your opponents. Well unless they are hellbent as well.
Also Alhammarret's Archive is really good with looting abilities.
As is Squee, Goblin Nabob. Runehorn Hellkite is very nice to discard, and wheel at end of turn so you get first grabs.
You should never play wheel effects in Commander, since they give your opponents way more card advantage than you (unless you're playing combo of course, then they're amazing). Also, filtering is not card advantage and should not be played outside graveyard shenanigans.
This is bad advice.
Wheels are some of the cheapest card draw sources in the game
With the exception of Wheel of Fate, you have a ton of control over when the wheel occurs, so it's almost trivial to get greater CA than your opponents from it.
While 3 opponents will collectively draw 21 cards to your 7, each of those 21 potential threats is being held by a player who has 3 opponents to consider using it against. That's a lot if you're the archenemy, not so much if someone else is.
Looting effects aren't card advantage, I'll grant, but that doesn't mean they "should not be played outside graveyard shenanigans". Card quality means a lot, and often means more than card quantity. Cheap looting effects essentially reduce your deck size, which reduces variance and increases reliability.
I don't think any of my red decks have zero wheels (though obviously some have more wheels than others), and I've got a deck in every color identity which includes red except for 4C nonblack.
I like a lot of the cards and strategies mentioned. Godo is my favorite red commander and I've played him off and on throughout the years.
Here is my card quality package according to my decklist:
So assuming your Godo deck is somewhat voltron and likes to attack, and you like the previously mentioned prophetic flamespeaker (which is nasty with equipment attached), then you may also like sin prodder and stromkirk occultist. Your card-draw can also be your threats. These guys tend to eat up removal from your opponents, meaning there will be less removal for Godo once he joins the party.
I have a hard time determine if Godo is a voltron deck. Perhaps if I removed all other creatures and just reokaced them with mana rocks. But for the moment sometimes you have draws where godo is a supporting role and sometimes the players have few blockers and godo can take them out.
Sharpshooter and Sparksmith are both good with Basislisk Collar. Can also function on it's own. Tauren Mauler is big and is a Samurai for Godo. The tokens can block, be equiped, makes Skullclamp much better. The token makers also function with Kiki-Jiki, Cauldron of Souls and Blade of Selves. The payoff might be weak though.
From my experience in multi-player, the sin prodder usually mills you lands and gets you extra cards that are not overly threatening. Your opponents can't quite argue about it, since once you reveal from his ability, it will go around the table in order. If an opponent passes saying he doesn't want to pay the life to the next opponent, that first opponent can't back up and change their mind after the next opponent makes their choice.
Since he is pretty insignificant, I usually attack the person to my right with him, since that would be the last person to decide if they want to pay life. If they are at less life, they are less likely to want to take even more damage from something revealed. Unless the card has a very small mana-cost, the first person to make the decision (to your left) usually won't take the damage, since there are others at the table that can take the damage instead.
So yes, you will almost always mill a mountain, but once you reveal a blasphemous act or some other staple with a high cmc, then he becomes far more entertaining.
He is pretty subtle, and his menace body is very good with swords of x/y.
He is also dirt cheap. I'd give him a test in your group.
edit; along the same lines, you may like combustible gearhulk. It only takes one incident of an opponent "taking the damage" and you mill blasphemous act+akroma's memorial+kozilek, butcher of truth, doming them for 26 damage, for your friends to almost always let you draw three cards. Yes he does have the chance to just mill you three lands and do nothing, but that gamble is pretty fun to impose on your friends.
He works really well with damage enhancement effects (furnace of rath/dictate of the twin gods/gratuitous violence). Again just always pick the opponent with the least life if you are wanting the highest chance of drawing 3. And a 6/6 first strike is yet again another great offensive creature.
Then you should specifically mention as much. This is not the 1v1 Commander forum, this is the Commander forum, which carries a default assumption of multiplayer FFA.
OK
However, I think it's not bad in multi too : most of time, players don"t want loose their board, and, even if i don"t know very well godo's list, i guess there aren"t many permanent on your control on the board before Godo (mainly mana rocks??).
I would happily blow up the entire board to prevent the Godo player from getting an extra card every round. Not only that, but I'd have a full turn cycle to prepare for the sweeper? Sign me up!
OK
However, I think it's not bad in multi too : most of time, players don"t want loose their board, and, even if i don"t know very well godo's list, i guess there aren"t many permanent on your control on the board before Godo (mainly mana rocks??).
The deck is mono red so all your ramp is mana rocks. You play Godo so you play at least 10 equipments, mine is much hiegher. And you also want creatures in your deck.
The decks line of attack is pretty obvius, most oponents will just let you draw until they can take you to the cleaners.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I am trying to run at least 10 card draw cards in my commander decks. I am having a difficult time comming up with good card draw for my Godo, Bandit Warlord deck.
So far I have:
Some of these are less then ideal.
Wheel of Fate
Reforge the Soul
Magus of the Wheel
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Wheel of Fortune
Wheel of Fate
Incendiary Command
Or for general draw/filtering
Cathartic Reunion
Faithless Looting
Renegade Tactics
Tormenting Voice
UBRJeleva, Nephalias Scourge: ...and the storm arrivedRBU
BGHapatra, Vizier of PoisonsGB
WAvacyn, Angel of Hope: Avy, Baby!W
Humble Defector gives your opponents more card draw over time, so unless you have a sac outlet you should skip that as well.
Skullclamp might not be ideal if you go voltron or creature light, but it's generally a good include so keep it for now but flag it for playtesting.
Grenzo, Havoc Raiser is amazing with evasive equipments, which you should have plenty of in this deck. Keep it.
Prophetic Flamespeaker is probably good for the same reason.
Memory Jar is solid.
Mind's Eye is the best card draw you have access to, never cut it.
Sword of Fire and Ice is also an autoinclude.
Dragon Mage gives your opponents more card advantage than you, and should be cut.
Now for some suggestions:
Outpost Siege is in my top 5 red card draw list, it's amazing. Often better than Grenzo and flamespeaker since they both need to connect to give you card advantage, while this card just sits there and does it every turn regardless.
The new Oracle's Vault is basically an Outpost Siege with a 2 mana upkeep cost for three turns, after which it turns into basically an Aetherworks Marvel without energy cost. Highly recommended.
Avarice Amulet pumps and gives you a card every upkeep. Only equip on your general so it doesn't change controller.
Mask of Memory nets you a card and throws in some selection as well, it's really good. Assuming you have evasion of course.
Rogue's Gloves is the same as above, minus the selection.
Staff of Nin costs a lot to cast, but then it's a free card every turn. Definitely worth the initial cost.
Tamiyo's Journal gives free clues every turn and can also tutor if you want. I always include it in my red and white decks.
Magnifying Glass has a hideous activation cost, 6 mana for one card! However, it's also a mana rock and thus useful the entire game. I've found that it's very nice to have lying around lategame when you're out of cards but have a bazillion mana available. But don't count it as actual card draw since it's so expensive to activate, include it in your mana rock count and see the occasional clue as a bonus instead.
If I would've picked 10 cards for a Godo list, they would be as follows:
#1 Mind's Eye
#2 Sword of Fire and Ice
#3 Avarice Amulet
#4 Outpost Siege
#5 Oracle's Vault
#6 Tamiyo's Journal
#7 Staff of Nin
#8 Memory Jar
#9 Mask of Memory
#10 Rogue's Gloves
You should never play wheel effects in Commander, since they give your opponents way more card advantage than you (unless you're playing combo of course, then they're amazing). Also, filtering is not card advantage and should not be played outside graveyard shenanigans.
I have to disagree.
If filtering effects should not be played outside of graveyard interactions, then why is Sensei's Divining Top a top class card? (no pun intended
Also Wheel Effects may provide card draw to your opponents, however when timed correctly you get full draw and no card loss and you opponents can loose a great deal of cards this way. In a best case scenario you can draw 7 cards for 2R with Wheel of Fortune.
There are pros and cons to both spells, but i feel that there are more pros than cons.
UBRJeleva, Nephalias Scourge: ...and the storm arrivedRBU
BGHapatra, Vizier of PoisonsGB
WAvacyn, Angel of Hope: Avy, Baby!W
If you only have a couple cards in hand, not only do you completely disrupt anyone elses planned moves, getting a full grip is worth the giving a few cards to your opponents. Well unless they are hellbent as well.
Also Alhammarret's Archive is really good with looting abilities.
As is Squee, Goblin Nabob.
Runehorn Hellkite is very nice to discard, and wheel at end of turn so you get first grabs.
Refill your hand and disrupt your opponents tutoring and hand-sculpting? Why would you want to do that?
Obviously they can backfire against decks that unload their hand quickly, but at the average EDH table they do far more good than harm to the caster.
Current Decks
GTitania midrange
RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal
GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron
U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher
RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
- Wheels are some of the cheapest card draw sources in the game
- With the exception of Wheel of Fate, you have a ton of control over when the wheel occurs, so it's almost trivial to get greater CA than your opponents from it.
- While 3 opponents will collectively draw 21 cards to your 7, each of those 21 potential threats is being held by a player who has 3 opponents to consider using it against. That's a lot if you're the archenemy, not so much if someone else is.
- Looting effects aren't card advantage, I'll grant, but that doesn't mean they "should not be played outside graveyard shenanigans". Card quality means a lot, and often means more than card quantity. Cheap looting effects essentially reduce your deck size, which reduces variance and increases reliability.
I don't think any of my red decks have zero wheels (though obviously some have more wheels than others), and I've got a deck in every color identity which includes red except for 4C nonblack.Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Here is my card quality package according to my decklist:
Mindclaw Shaman is a little meta dependent and I think overall I don't like it.
Squee + Rummagaing Goblin is a build your own Howling Mine.
Blade of Selves is win more but kinda fun on Solemn Simulacrum and other EtB guys.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
Usualy the 3 musketeers Kazuul's Toll Collector, Armory Automation or Vulshok Battlemaster can do the killing. If Sword of Vengeance or Batterskull is out they can ride along on the 2 attack phases. After digging 34 cards into the deck one of them should usualy make an apearance. Of course not all games go that long.
The draw and discard cards are not very good as the deck almost always wants mana. Either for equiping or for re-casting Godo.
There current deck has some small goblin sub theme.
Sharpshooter and Sparksmith are both good with Basislisk Collar. Can also function on it's own. Tauren Mauler is big and is a Samurai for Godo. The tokens can block, be equiped, makes Skullclamp much better. The token makers also function with Kiki-Jiki, Cauldron of Souls and Blade of Selves. The payoff might be weak though.
People seem down on Humble Defector. He is good at playing poletics. Homeward Path also works with him.
I am not sure about Sin Prodder unless I get them to really argue about who is paying the life.
Since he is pretty insignificant, I usually attack the person to my right with him, since that would be the last person to decide if they want to pay life. If they are at less life, they are less likely to want to take even more damage from something revealed. Unless the card has a very small mana-cost, the first person to make the decision (to your left) usually won't take the damage, since there are others at the table that can take the damage instead.
So yes, you will almost always mill a mountain, but once you reveal a blasphemous act or some other staple with a high cmc, then he becomes far more entertaining.
He is pretty subtle, and his menace body is very good with swords of x/y.
He is also dirt cheap. I'd give him a test in your group.
edit; along the same lines, you may like combustible gearhulk. It only takes one incident of an opponent "taking the damage" and you mill blasphemous act+akroma's memorial+kozilek, butcher of truth, doming them for 26 damage, for your friends to almost always let you draw three cards. Yes he does have the chance to just mill you three lands and do nothing, but that gamble is pretty fun to impose on your friends.
He works really well with damage enhancement effects (furnace of rath/dictate of the twin gods/gratuitous violence). Again just always pick the opponent with the least life if you are wanting the highest chance of drawing 3. And a 6/6 first strike is yet again another great offensive creature.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
In multi-player, unless you have an indestructible theme, I'd only run the portal if you were more spell-heavy.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
I moved the portal over to my Xenagos deck. Something bad could happen with all those nice swords.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
However, I think it's not bad in multi too : most of time, players don"t want loose their board, and, even if i don"t know very well godo's list, i guess there aren"t many permanent on your control on the board before Godo (mainly mana rocks??).
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
The deck is mono red so all your ramp is mana rocks. You play Godo so you play at least 10 equipments, mine is much hiegher. And you also want creatures in your deck.
The decks line of attack is pretty obvius, most oponents will just let you draw until they can take you to the cleaners.