(Sorry for no card tags I'm on mobile but most cards are well known that I am referencing)
Hey everyone my playgroup is having problems with two people that play commander with us. One player uses a counter spell crazy Baral control deck with Enter the Infinte and Omniscience combo. And the other guy has a 3 highly tuned decks (that's a problem in and of it's self as most of us are budget players) but he plays Combo NivMizzet, Zur lock down and Ezuri fast combo elves.
I want to build a specific targeted control deck to bust out anytime that these guys play to just try and stop them from doing anything so everyone else can play the game.
Cards like
Overwhelming Denial
Last Word
Renter Silent
Soulfire Grand Master
Nevermore
Stuff like that. So was just looking to you guys for some more help. Want to try to shut down these players without harming rest of the table because our playgroup is suffering from being completely out money-ed. Thanks for any help.
Well Grand Arbiter Augustin IV is pretty stellar at controlling what your opponents can and cannot do, but he also causes a lot of collateral damage.
If you really want to stop just these specific opponents, I'd recommend a deck with a bunch of Sadistic Sacrament/Slaughter Games effects and take away their combo pieces.
Well Grand Arbiter Augustin IV is pretty stellar at controlling what your opponents can and cannot do, but he also causes a lot of collateral damage.
If you really want to stop just these specific opponents, I'd recommend a deck with a bunch of Sadistic Sacrament/Slaughter Games effects and take away their combo pieces.
There is my current list of cards I'm looking to play the I only worry on sacrament is maybe won't have time to kick it and not sure how triple B will be on mana but I'm willing to give it a try great spell when it has Bosejui back up as well.
Play a lot of small targeted removal like swords to plowshares and co, that will shut down creature-based combos/locks
As for counter-heavy Baral, if all three players are against him, he will find it difficult to win without racing to combo off. I have a non-combo Baral deck, so I can say that you will run out of gas pretty fast if it gets like that.
At the end of the day though, building a deck to compete with them or to shut them down is unlikely to end your problem. It may actually encourage them in that it may be seen as a sign that the meta is shifting in their direction, toward more competitive decks. If you want to play at a more casual level, I feel the best way to address the problem is to let them know that you find it unpleasant to play against combo. If you and your other friends have enough people to start a game without them, you could just do that; you're under no obligation to play with people if you don't enjoy it.
At the end of the day though, building a deck to compete with them or to shut them down is unlikely to end your problem. It may actually encourage them in that it may be seen as a sign that the meta is shifting in their direction, toward more competitive decks. If you want to play at a more casual level, I feel the best way to address the problem is to let them know that you find it unpleasant to play against combo. If you and your other friends have enough people to start a game without them, you could just do that; you're under no obligation to play with people if you don't enjoy it.
Have to agree with this. Even if it should work, you will be stuck mostly answering them all game and not really playing yourself.
That said, there are several cards that stop specific issues like these. Mindlock Orb and Stranglehold stops decks from tutoring, like with Zur the Enchanter. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir shuts down counterspells, Defense Grid makes it harder. Omen Machine turns off card draw and helps fair decks while hindering the more unfair ones. Citadel of Pain makes playing counterspells and other mana-intensive instants VERY painful, and War's Toll means they will have to make a choice between instants and playing stuff on their own turn. Possibility Storm Messes with control and combo bad, and a lot of the time just shuts off large parts of those decks. Creature-based decks won't really mind though. Suppression Field also turns off a lot of combos, and Stony Silence stops a lot as well, in addition to turning off broken mana etc. Like others have pointed out, Arcane Laboratory and Rule of Law also stops a lot of combos and makes your counterspells a lot better. Spellskite is surprisingly effecte against a lot of cards, and stops most Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind combos flat. Dovescape makes it really hard to resolve any combo piece that isn't a creature, although it doesn't stop stuff like Zur. Silence will either draw out a counter or shut someone out of countering anything during your turn, and works wonders against some combos that want to cast a bunch of stuff in a turn. Uba Mask is also a rather funny card to play vs. broken decks, or very instant-heavy decks. Watch their faces when you play that thing!
Other than straight up hosers though, you should probably focus on play a lot of cheap instant removal. Swords to Plowshares and it's ilk stops so many combos very efficiently, as does Disenchant and above all, Krosan Grip. Look a split second and in general cheap interaction. You don't need to counter something to invalidate their combo.
In the end though, I strongly suggest you follow aslidsiksoraksis advice and try to solve it in a social manner rather than a deckbuilding one. If they don't respond to that, you might be playing with the wrong people. Good luck.
Derevi is also like Gaddock Teeg, except its probably more oppressive. However you guys can always go full on Archenemy and attack the combo players first and then continue after. They should get tired of being first out, use your politics and get the other players to team up on the combo player.
If you build with green you can use fetch effects. Then you can use cards like stony silence for great effect. Most combo decks relly on fast artifact mana.
If they are dependent on their commander transform enchantments can be good at keeping the commanders down.
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The aforementioned Silence is a great thing to put under an Isochron Scepter.
I noticed your list of counters lacked Foil, the poor man's FoW.
There's also the third path. You could talk to these players about games becoming unfun and how you feel money-d out and see if they're willing to power down some.
3 of the 4 offending decks you mentioned contain blue, and are ones I'd imagine are full of counter magic. If you insist on building a deck targeting them instead of speaking to them, I'd be sure to include cards like City of Solitude and Dosan the Falling Leaf.
Jester's Cap makes quick work on most combo decks, usually 3 cards is enough to take out a number of their key pieces. A plus point of being an artifact means all colors can run it without dabbling in either black or blue for extraction type effects. All colors also have some form of reanimation effects to recur/copy this so it can be reused if 3 cards aren't enough.
2 more interesting cards to recommend that punishes tuned decks but has much lesser effect on casual decks, Widespread Panic and Psychic Surgery. Both of them have low casting costs and can be dropped during early turns. Most tuned decks run a fair amount of tutors (be it fetches, land tutors, card type tutors), these 2 stops/delays a lot of decks cuz top of library tutors such as vampiric/mystical/worldly/enlightened tutor will lose their effectiveness.
Hey everyone my playgroup is having problems with two people that play commander with us. One player uses a counter spell crazy Baral control deck with Enter the Infinte and Omniscience combo. And the other guy has a 3 highly tuned decks (that's a problem in and of it's self as most of us are budget players) but he plays Combo NivMizzet, Zur lock down and Ezuri fast combo elves.
I want to build a specific targeted control deck to bust out anytime that these guys play to just try and stop them from doing anything so everyone else can play the game.
Cards like
Overwhelming Denial
Last Word
Renter Silent
Soulfire Grand Master
Nevermore
Stuff like that. So was just looking to you guys for some more help. Want to try to shut down these players without harming rest of the table because our playgroup is suffering from being completely out money-ed. Thanks for any help.
If you really want to stop just these specific opponents, I'd recommend a deck with a bunch of Sadistic Sacrament/Slaughter Games effects and take away their combo pieces.
1 Soulfire Grand Master
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Archeomancer
1 Mnemonic Wall
Instants
1 Last Word
1 Overwhelming Denial
1 Counterflux
1 Render Silent
1 Desertion
1 Counterspell
1 Dissipate
1 Void Shatter
1 Dissolve
1 Cancel
1 Annul
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Dismiss
1 Essence Scatter
1 Negate
1 Gainsay
1 Forbid
1 Mystic Confluence
1 Rewind
1 Spell Crumple
1 Slaughter Games
1 Praetor's Grasp
1 Life from the Loam
Enchantments
1 Nevermore
1 Command Tower
1 Bosejui, who shelters all
1 Strip Mine
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Simic Guildgate
1 Azorius Guildgate
1 Dimir Guildgate
1 Izzet Guildgate
1 Swiftwater Cliffs
1 Dismal Backwater
1 Thornwood Falls
1 Trainquil Cove
1 Opulent Palace
1 Frontier Bivuac
There is my current list of cards I'm looking to play the I only worry on sacrament is maybe won't have time to kick it and not sure how triple B will be on mana but I'm willing to give it a try great spell when it has Bosejui back up as well.
Rhyistic Study for draw. Often combo players are trying to go fast so they will be happy to feed you cards.
As for counter-heavy Baral, if all three players are against him, he will find it difficult to win without racing to combo off. I have a non-combo Baral deck, so I can say that you will run out of gas pretty fast if it gets like that.
Honestly though, the best way to shut all these people down would be Gaddock Teeg the true king of hatebears (Anafenza, the Foremost is also an option, and black gives you discard and deck-sculpting effects). With stuff like Aven Mindcensor, Hushwing Gryff, Spirit of the Labyrinth, City of Solitude, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Dragonlord Dromoka you can more or less make life very unpleasant for combo and control.
At the end of the day though, building a deck to compete with them or to shut them down is unlikely to end your problem. It may actually encourage them in that it may be seen as a sign that the meta is shifting in their direction, toward more competitive decks. If you want to play at a more casual level, I feel the best way to address the problem is to let them know that you find it unpleasant to play against combo. If you and your other friends have enough people to start a game without them, you could just do that; you're under no obligation to play with people if you don't enjoy it.
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
The other thing that will kill a lot of combo decks are the enchantments that restrict each player to one spell per turn. Their name eludes me.
There's a white one and a blue one.
Rule of Law and Arcane Laboratory
Also the creature versions, Ethersworn Canonist and Eidolon of Rhetoric
Have to agree with this. Even if it should work, you will be stuck mostly answering them all game and not really playing yourself.
That said, there are several cards that stop specific issues like these. Mindlock Orb and Stranglehold stops decks from tutoring, like with Zur the Enchanter. Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir shuts down counterspells, Defense Grid makes it harder. Omen Machine turns off card draw and helps fair decks while hindering the more unfair ones. Citadel of Pain makes playing counterspells and other mana-intensive instants VERY painful, and War's Toll means they will have to make a choice between instants and playing stuff on their own turn.
Possibility Storm Messes with control and combo bad, and a lot of the time just shuts off large parts of those decks. Creature-based decks won't really mind though. Suppression Field also turns off a lot of combos, and Stony Silence stops a lot as well, in addition to turning off broken mana etc. Like others have pointed out, Arcane Laboratory and Rule of Law also stops a lot of combos and makes your counterspells a lot better. Spellskite is surprisingly effecte against a lot of cards, and stops most Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind combos flat. Dovescape makes it really hard to resolve any combo piece that isn't a creature, although it doesn't stop stuff like Zur. Silence will either draw out a counter or shut someone out of countering anything during your turn, and works wonders against some combos that want to cast a bunch of stuff in a turn. Uba Mask is also a rather funny card to play vs. broken decks, or very instant-heavy decks. Watch their faces when you play that thing!
Other than straight up hosers though, you should probably focus on play a lot of cheap instant removal. Swords to Plowshares and it's ilk stops so many combos very efficiently, as does Disenchant and above all, Krosan Grip. Look a split second and in general cheap interaction. You don't need to counter something to invalidate their combo.
In the end though, I strongly suggest you follow aslidsiksoraksis advice and try to solve it in a social manner rather than a deckbuilding one. If they don't respond to that, you might be playing with the wrong people. Good luck.
If they are dependent on their commander transform enchantments can be good at keeping the commanders down.
I noticed your list of counters lacked Foil, the poor man's FoW.
There's also the third path. You could talk to these players about games becoming unfun and how you feel money-d out and see if they're willing to power down some.
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsCarpet of flowers for fast mana, or going full douche with stuff like Boil, Choke, Tsunami, SeedTime etc.
Rule of Law and Humility derivatives are pretty much the best all-around combo-killers.
Most Used (of many dozens) EDH Decks:
Brago, King Eternal - Stax
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - Aggro Combo
Wort, the Raidmother - Spellslinger Swarm Control
Animar, Soul of Elements - Tempo Combo
Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder - Spellslinger
Exodia the Forbidden One:
Oona, Queen of the Fae - Combowins.dec
2 more interesting cards to recommend that punishes tuned decks but has much lesser effect on casual decks, Widespread Panic and Psychic Surgery. Both of them have low casting costs and can be dropped during early turns. Most tuned decks run a fair amount of tutors (be it fetches, land tutors, card type tutors), these 2 stops/delays a lot of decks cuz top of library tutors such as vampiric/mystical/worldly/enlightened tutor will lose their effectiveness.
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused