[quote from="Carthage »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/775366-what-is-stopping-us-from?comment=10"]I consider the ban list to be worse than useless.
Does it stop overpowered decks? Not even close.
Does it encourage people to play a certain way? My experience is showing that this is also not true.
Does it almost arbitrarily limit deckbuilding? Damn skippy it does!
It got bad enough that I have simply stopped playing.
Are you saying that the ban list prevents you from building a deck you would enjoy playing? or that you run into degenerate decks too often despite it? Can you clarify?
The banlist prevents me from including strategies I would like to try in more competitive games.
But the main thing is the ban list does not, at all, prevent people from making decks that are horrible to play against.
I'm having trouble reconciling these two statements because they appear to be at odds with one another.
What exactly would you want to build/play that you can't?
But the main thing is the ban list does not, at all, prevent people from making decks that are horrible to play against.
No reasonable banlist can accomplish that. Sure, if you ban 18,000 cards and just leave Grizzly Bears and Squire and group hug cards, but that would be horrible to play.
Give me any banlist you want, and I can make something that is "horrible to play against." The banlist isn't supposed to prevent people from making decks that are horrible to play against. It is meant to set a standard and keep the most obvious offenders out. Beyond that, it is up to the player and the group to decide what kind of games they want to play.
I recently went and played with a new group. One of the guys was playing 4 color superfriends, so I figured it would be fine to play my 5 color superfriends deck. Not only did I mop the board, but the game wasn't fun for anyone, myself included. One player was strictly creature based, and repeated board wipes kept him from doing anything. Another player kept reanimating zombies and got salty over Bojuka Bog. So the next game, I backed off and played a derpier deck. Only one board wipe hit that game, and my deck swarmed the others. Overall, no one had as much fun as we had hoped to.
So what was the problem? I came from a group with a different meta than they did. The games weren't as fun because we had differing goals.
And no banlist would have changed that.
If I were to play them again, I could find a better deck to match their playstyles. But that requires talking and taking personal responsibility. It's not the fault of the banlist.
But the main thing is the ban list does not, at all, prevent people from making decks that are horrible to play against.
No reasonable banlist can accomplish that. Sure, if you ban 18,000 cards and just leave Grizzly Bears and Squire and group hug cards, but that would be horrible to play.
Give me any banlist you want, and I can make something that is "horrible to play against." The banlist isn't supposed to prevent people from making decks that are horrible to play against. It is meant to set a standard and keep the most obvious offenders out. Beyond that, it is up to the player and the group to decide what kind of games they want to play.
I recently went and played with a new group. One of the guys was playing 4 color superfriends, so I figured it would be fine to play my 5 color superfriends deck. Not only did I mop the board, but the game wasn't fun for anyone, myself included. One player was strictly creature based, and repeated board wipes kept him from doing anything. Another player kept reanimating zombies and got salty over Bojuka Bog. So the next game, I backed off and played a derpier deck. Only one board wipe hit that game, and my deck swarmed the others. Overall, no one had as much fun as we had hoped to.
So what was the problem? I came from a group with a different meta than they did. The games weren't as fun because we had differing goals.
And no banlist would have changed that.
If I were to play them again, I could find a better deck to match their playstyles. But that requires talking and taking personal responsibility. It's not the fault of the banlist.
I'm considering just exiting the game entirely and selling my collection.
I would recommend it, I did so myself a while back. I'll never leave Magic completely: I still get excited for spoiler seasons, I have a few decks for the kitchen table or occassionally brew a new list, I even still have a "collection" (less than twenty cards) that are sentimental to me. There was a point in my life where I needed something to hold onto and enliven me and Magic provided it, but that time has passed. I don't regret (most) of my time and investment into the game, the returns were phenomenal in more ways than one, but it's time for something new. I won't lie that it wasn't difficult to come to the realization, and certainly difficult to accept it when I did, but when I did I felt wonderful. Suddenly, all the time and money I was blocking for an activity that I no longer had the drive for could be applied however I wished. All the stress I had about the game (and the other people involved) also disappeared. So, while it might sound harsh, if you are feeling like cashing out then I would do so, and start chasing what will make you happy.
I'm considering just exiting the game entirely and selling my collection.
I would recommend it, I did so myself a while back. I'll never leave Magic completely: I still get excited for spoiler seasons, I have a few decks for the kitchen table or occassionally brew a new list, I even still have a "collection" (less than twenty cards) that are sentimental to me. There was a point in my life where I needed something to hold onto and enliven me and Magic provided it, but that time has passed. I don't regret (most) of my time and investment into the game, the returns were phenomenal in more ways than one, but it's time for something new. I won't lie that it wasn't difficult to come to the realization, and certainly difficult to accept it when I did, but when I did I felt wonderful. Suddenly, all the time and money I was blocking for an activity that I no longer had the drive for could be applied however I wished. All the stress I had about the game (and the other people involved) also disappeared. So, while it might sound harsh, if you are feeling like cashing out then I would do so, and start chasing what will make you happy.
This kind of discussion reminds me of the WoW forums where players would constantly complain about everything in the game, but continue to devote all of their free time to play it. It always baffled me.
I would offer a slightly different alternative to selling your collection. I would store your collection in a safe place, and quit playing for a year or two. Pick up a new hobby and try other things. After some time has passed, revisit the idea of returning to Magic. If you decide to come back, your collection will be there waiting for you. Take it from someone who has sold their collection twice: having to rebuild a collection is more painful each time, especially with the price of cards generally climbing.
What exactly would you want to build/play that you can't?
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
Give me any banlist you want, and I can make something that is "horrible to play against." The banlist isn't supposed to prevent people from making decks that are horrible to play against. It is meant to set a standard and keep the most obvious offenders out. Beyond that, it is up to the player and the group to decide what kind of games they want to play.
I recently went and played with a new group. One of the guys was playing 4 color superfriends, so I figured it would be fine to play my 5 color superfriends deck. Not only did I mop the board, but the game wasn't fun for anyone, myself included. One player was strictly creature based, and repeated board wipes kept him from doing anything. Another player kept reanimating zombies and got salty over Bojuka Bog. So the next game, I backed off and played a derpier deck. Only one board wipe hit that game, and my deck swarmed the others. Overall, no one had as much fun as we had hoped to.
So what was the problem? I came from a group with a different meta than they did. The games weren't as fun because we had differing goals.
And no banlist would have changed that.
If I were to play them again, I could find a better deck to match their playstyles. But that requires talking and taking personal responsibility. It's not the fault of the banlist.
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I want no ban list.
I would recommend it, I did so myself a while back. I'll never leave Magic completely: I still get excited for spoiler seasons, I have a few decks for the kitchen table or occassionally brew a new list, I even still have a "collection" (less than twenty cards) that are sentimental to me. There was a point in my life where I needed something to hold onto and enliven me and Magic provided it, but that time has passed. I don't regret (most) of my time and investment into the game, the returns were phenomenal in more ways than one, but it's time for something new. I won't lie that it wasn't difficult to come to the realization, and certainly difficult to accept it when I did, but when I did I felt wonderful. Suddenly, all the time and money I was blocking for an activity that I no longer had the drive for could be applied however I wished. All the stress I had about the game (and the other people involved) also disappeared. So, while it might sound harsh, if you are feeling like cashing out then I would do so, and start chasing what will make you happy.
This kind of discussion reminds me of the WoW forums where players would constantly complain about everything in the game, but continue to devote all of their free time to play it. It always baffled me.
I would offer a slightly different alternative to selling your collection. I would store your collection in a safe place, and quit playing for a year or two. Pick up a new hobby and try other things. After some time has passed, revisit the idea of returning to Magic. If you decide to come back, your collection will be there waiting for you. Take it from someone who has sold their collection twice: having to rebuild a collection is more painful each time, especially with the price of cards generally climbing.
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