Yes, but it has such a connotation of being an instant-win combo that I think it's unavoidable to show up in casual games. I'm not sure how much though, but I think it's more likely Flash will be banned than Protean Hulk as it's the reason you (probably) can really push Hulk over the top.
Don't forget Necromancy, though. Entomb->Necromancy only costs 2 more mana than Flash, and both variants only require 2 cards in hand. Using Necromancy also lets you get Hulk into your 'yard in any other way and then only need 1 card in hand when you go off.
Yes, but it has such a connotation of being an instant-win combo that I think it's unavoidable to show up in casual games. I'm not sure how much though, but I think it's more likely Flash will be banned than Protean Hulk as it's the reason you (probably) can really push Hulk over the top.
Don't forget Necromancy, though. Entomb->Necromancy only costs 2 more mana than Flash, and both variants only require 2 cards in hand. Using Necromancy also lets you get Hulk into your 'yard in any other way and then only need 1 card in hand when you go off.
Yes, but removing Flash makes it less consistent (and a tad slower), and I think a lot more people are aware of Flash Hulk because of the legacy deck. Only time will tell what will happen.
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UG Arixmethes Combo UGR Wanderer UGB Tasigur Control URB Jeleva Storm RW Gisela Control
I have made several decks that can now combo out before turn 4 without making any changes besides adding protean hulk. Also, my mono black deck instantly wins if it necromancy's or puppeteer clique's someone else's protean hulk and my blue/X decks can win off a bribery/mind control/Clone effect plus sac outlet/removal/board wipe for the most part.
Heck, if I ever steel it off of a Preacher activation, I'm pretty sure I can win the game Somehow in my mono white deck. Might need a sac outlet, but it makes a lot of tokens so I do have some. I object to the poll's implication that we have to modify a deck to combo out with the unban. I'm literally just sliding it in and going to end games out of nowhere.
So other than standard outlets like Altars, what are good sac outlets in non black decks? I am trying to see if there is any value to running cards such as different creatures or such that would enable me to use it as a sacrifice tool for more than just Protean Hulk in non reanimator decks.
So other than standard outlets like Altars, what are good sac outlets in non black decks? I am trying to see if there is any value to running cards such as different creatures or such that would enable me to use it as a sacrifice tool for more than just Protean Hulk in non reanimator decks.
Then you could get Zealous Constripts (plus any 1 drop) and copy/untap feldon and make another protean hulk. You now have 11 hasty power. 6 of which is a protean hulk that will sacrifice itself at EOT.
Or for 3 more mana, sacrifice the hulk and get Combat celebrant and another haste enabler like Hellraiser Goblin or Inner-flame acolyte Then you attack for 11ish and untap. Then for 3 more mana you can make another hulk
If you already have fervor or equivalent you can get some creatures that produce mana on etb to get more hulks, or just get more dudes and extra combat steps with creatures like Scourge of the throne. If someone boardwipes while you have a protean hulk and a fervor, you should probably be able to kill at least 1 person.
Pili-Pala + Grand Architect + Spikeshot Elder = infinite mana and damage. There are plenty of 1 CMC creatures in other colors for pumping up the power stat of creatures
I feel like Phantasmal Image must be able to combo off with another 4 CMC of creatures?
If you Hulk'd for Phantasmal Image and a 4-drop (or Clone and a 2-drop, etc.), the Clone-equivalent wouldn't be able to copy the other creature you bring in from Hulk's ability. Since the cloning is a replacement effect, it happens before the creature actually reaches the battlefield, and the other creature(s) you picked with Hulk aren't available to choose from yet.
Also with zero mana cost creatures you can do incredible value off: Stoneforge Mystic + Puresteel Paladin + (2 CMC left over) + (Crimson Kobolds/Crookshank Kobolds/Kobolds of Kher Keep/Dryad Arbor/Memnite) (Ornithopter/Sheild Sphere/Phyrexian Walker)
Stoneforge Mystic gets Skullclamp and can draw at least 11 cards. A Viscera Seer type card would allow you to draw off the other >1 toughness creatures)
In my Halloween Town causal edh, I already run Body Double, Karmatic Guide and sac outlets. I dont run Lark, because its way happy and unhalloween looking, but I do run Mikeaus, the Unhallowed and now, Plague Belcher for that interaction so I can loop into that easily enough instead.
So basically, all I had to do was sub out a card for Hulk, to simply add to a pre existing win con. So I did that, since I can reason it flavor wise as the blob. My deck is still STUPIDLY causal, for a casual playgrou[, so there are ways to interact with it and stop it.
More than anything, I can't help but notice that 6 is also a very competitive slot. And there's plenty at lower slots even without combo.
Did I mention this also gives you a free Dryad Arbor? Because it totally does.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
My plan for Protean Hulk is to let its presence in the format make my maindecked Torpor Orbs and Rest in Peace's savage even more opponents than they already have been. (Before anyone lights me up for it, I'm not saying that Protean Hulk isn't insanely powerful just because there are cards that exist which hose it.)
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You would never guess, at the terrifying sight of the man, that Hunding was as charming a companion as one could wish for.
I swapped out Tooth and Nail for Hulk in Karador because it seemed appropriate.
This is a great idea. I will most likely make this change as well. I was thinking of a way to fit PHulk into Karador, and this is an easy way to go about it. They pretty much will do the same thing in the deck, for 2 less mana, and recurrable next turn. I'll double check if there are any creature slots open, but I highly doubt it.
I'm sorry but how does "I made a deck with insane tutor power just to get an infinite combo off easily we must ban this card" make any sense in this format where I can use various other cards to make for much harder to disrupt wins at the same kind of turn? You made a hypercompetitive Hulk deck, congrats. I've got a deck that wins on average 40% of its games on turn 3, and 90% on turn 5 or before. Should we ban Eternal Scourge?
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Heads up; next time you make a post like that, try to keep it all in one post instead of making a triple post.
Now, thing is; cards do not get banned because someone built a competitive deck with it. If this were true, Ad Nauseam, Hermit Druid and some other cards would've been banned a long time ago. Cards usually get banned based on how they do on the average table, the ones where games generally go on longer. Protean Hulk is considered there because it has potentional to be centralizing - people tutoring, cloning and reanimating Hulks constantly, drawing games around it. This I haven't seen yet since it's unban. Usually there's better stuff to grab. Infinite combo potentional doesn't really get considered, only 1-card-end-the-game things seem to be - and there are very few cards that actually end the game on their own without outside influence. In fact, the only unbanned card that can do this still requires you to have specific cards in your deck/hand (Tooth and Nail).
As to your question about my early-game-win deck, I don't have a list online but it's a close approximation of this one: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/food-chain-tazri/
The author of that article does a much better explanation as I ever could provide, so I'll let it speak for itself. My version is a bit more budgetty (Mostly on the lands and there's a Day's Undoing instead of Timetwister) and it's still frightingly consistent.
However, it's also not a deck I bring to most tables. It's one I have with me in case people want to see it, or if people want to go against the strongest I can bring.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I dropped the Hulk on Glint-Eye Nephilim, as that deck is all about graveyard (the unofficially official theme is that every card must have the word 'graveyard' on it) and toiling there. Not sure if it ends up doing much, but... eh, meat AND eggs. We eat!
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X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
Gonna nit pick a little here, because this is a very corner case situation regarding necromancy:
Hulk dies at clean up. In clean up, no one receives priority unless they're responding to something. (unlike end step, where priority goes around to move to clean up).
Incorrect. Nobody gets priority during Cleanup (CR 514.3), unless any state-based action or triggered ability occurs during the Cleanup step (CR 514.3a). If any SBA or trigger does occur, priority is passed as normal for any other step or phase, and an additional Cleanup step will occur. (And keep adding more until no SBAs or triggers occur.)
The delayed trigger from Necromancy itself is sufficient to give everybody priority passes during the Cleanup step of the turn it was cast with flash, although the triggers from Hulk and Delver certainly don't hurt.
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Yes, but removing Flash makes it less consistent (and a tad slower), and I think a lot more people are aware of Flash Hulk because of the legacy deck. Only time will tell what will happen.
UGR Wanderer
UGB Tasigur Control
URB Jeleva Storm
RW Gisela Control
Heck, if I ever steel it off of a Preacher activation, I'm pretty sure I can win the game Somehow in my mono white deck. Might need a sac outlet, but it makes a lot of tokens so I do have some. I object to the poll's implication that we have to modify a deck to combo out with the unban. I'm literally just sliding it in and going to end games out of nowhere.
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What is wrong with you people.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary Primer UG
Footsteps of the Goryo also works in that regard.
Eternal Witness + Yavimaya Elder or another value 3-drop. E-Wit gets back your P-Hulk, do it again for even more value.
Land-based sac outlets are good: things like High Market, Miren, the Moaning Well, and Diamond Valley are colorless. I'm also a fan of things like Trading Post, Helm of Possession, or Spawning Pit. The best ones in green are Greater Good, Birthing Pod, and Evolutionary Leap.
Feldon, of the third path, Lightning Mauler and Scorched Rusalka/Krark-clan shaman soulbond to feldon and make another hulk.
Then you could get Zealous Constripts (plus any 1 drop) and copy/untap feldon and make another protean hulk. You now have 11 hasty power. 6 of which is a protean hulk that will sacrifice itself at EOT.
Or for 3 more mana, sacrifice the hulk and get Combat celebrant and another haste enabler like Hellraiser Goblin or Inner-flame acolyte Then you attack for 11ish and untap. Then for 3 more mana you can make another hulk
If you already have fervor or equivalent you can get some creatures that produce mana on etb to get more hulks, or just get more dudes and extra combat steps with creatures like Scourge of the throne. If someone boardwipes while you have a protean hulk and a fervor, you should probably be able to kill at least 1 person.
Or you can throw Kiki-jiki, Mirror breaker into the mix and kill everyone.
Saffi Eriksdotter + Loyal Retainers = infinite ETB triggers
Pili-Pala + Grand Architect + Spikeshot Elder = infinite mana and damage. There are plenty of 1 CMC creatures in other colors for pumping up the power stat of creatures
Vizier of Remedies + Devoted Druid + Orochi Leafcaller + Spikeshot Elder = infinite mana and damage.
Melira, Sylvok Outcast + Kitchen Finks + Viscera Seer = infinite life and infinite scry
Sacred Guide + Laboratory Maniac + Wall of Omens/Elvish Visionary/Wall of Blossoms in a deck that doesn't have any other white cards.
I feel like Phantasmal Image must be able to combo off with another 4 CMC of creatures?
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Body Double can copy Hulk (which makes it an option to replace Phyrexian Delver).
The only Clone-type effects that would work for getting two copies of a creature tutored by Hulk are Renegade Doppelganger, Riku of Two Reflections (if you pay GU), and Unstable Shapeshifter.
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- Crimson Kobolds
- Crookshank Kobolds
- Kobolds of Kher Keep
- Dryad Arbor
- Phyrexian Walker
- Sheild Sphere
- Memnite
- Ornithopter
- Phyrexian Marauder
- Walking Ballista
- Endless One
- Hangarback Walker
- Shifting Wall
Academy Rector + Viscera Seer + Disciple of the Vault + (Phyrexian Marauder/Walking Ballista/Endless One/Hangarback Walker/Phyrexian Walker/Sheild Sphere/Memnite/Ornithopter/Shifting Wall)Academy Rector gets Enduring Renewal
Also with zero mana cost creatures you can do incredible value off:
Stoneforge Mystic + Puresteel Paladin + (2 CMC left over) + (Crimson Kobolds/Crookshank Kobolds/Kobolds of Kher Keep/Dryad Arbor/Memnite) (Ornithopter/Sheild Sphere/Phyrexian Walker)
Stoneforge Mystic gets Skullclamp and can draw at least 11 cards. A Viscera Seer type card would allow you to draw off the other >1 toughness creatures)
Also Disciple of Bolas and Phyrexian Dreadnought to draw 12 cards, plus you still got 1 CMC left
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
So basically, all I had to do was sub out a card for Hulk, to simply add to a pre existing win con. So I did that, since I can reason it flavor wise as the blob. My deck is still STUPIDLY causal, for a casual playgrou[, so there are ways to interact with it and stop it.
EDH
Works in Progress:
WUControlling the ElementsUW C Perfect Insanity C B Anowon, the Ruin Sage B BLiliana, Heretical HealerB
Pauper EDH:
WTallowispW Voltron
Retired:
RDaretti, Scrap SavantR
Did I mention this also gives you a free Dryad Arbor? Because it totally does.
On phasing:
This is a great idea. I will most likely make this change as well. I was thinking of a way to fit PHulk into Karador, and this is an easy way to go about it. They pretty much will do the same thing in the deck, for 2 less mana, and recurrable next turn. I'll double check if there are any creature slots open, but I highly doubt it.
Now I will need a foil one
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Now, thing is; cards do not get banned because someone built a competitive deck with it. If this were true, Ad Nauseam, Hermit Druid and some other cards would've been banned a long time ago. Cards usually get banned based on how they do on the average table, the ones where games generally go on longer. Protean Hulk is considered there because it has potentional to be centralizing - people tutoring, cloning and reanimating Hulks constantly, drawing games around it. This I haven't seen yet since it's unban. Usually there's better stuff to grab. Infinite combo potentional doesn't really get considered, only 1-card-end-the-game things seem to be - and there are very few cards that actually end the game on their own without outside influence. In fact, the only unbanned card that can do this still requires you to have specific cards in your deck/hand (Tooth and Nail).
As to your question about my early-game-win deck, I don't have a list online but it's a close approximation of this one:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/food-chain-tazri/
The author of that article does a much better explanation as I ever could provide, so I'll let it speak for itself. My version is a bit more budgetty (Mostly on the lands and there's a Day's Undoing instead of Timetwister) and it's still frightingly consistent.
However, it's also not a deck I bring to most tables. It's one I have with me in case people want to see it, or if people want to go against the strongest I can bring.
The delayed trigger from Necromancy itself is sufficient to give everybody priority passes during the Cleanup step of the turn it was cast with flash, although the triggers from Hulk and Delver certainly don't hurt.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)