What do you guys think is the most competitive +1/+1 counter deck? I am in a commander league and am in the final three going into the last week so i will be in a three person game with the other two for the final week and really want to win. While i want a competitive deck i am also a budget player (i have never spent more then $5 on a card) so there a lot of good +1/+1 cards i don't have at my disposal, notably; Doubling Season, Parallel Lives, Bloodspore Thrinax (really wish i bought this when it was a dollar :frown:), as well as other cards like Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Supreme Verdict, Wrath of God, Mirari's Wake, Rhystic Study, Tamiyo or any good infect cards (i don't like using infect). I do have just about every other good +1/+1 card, have bought the Atraxa & Ezuri precon, have Cyclonic Rift, Chromatic Lantern, Contagion Engine, Lux Cannon, Aura Shards, Dictate of Erebos, Birds of Paradise, Avenger of Zendikar, Woodfall Primus, Craterhoof Behemeth, some tier 2 tutors with Dark Petition, Sidisi, Green Sun Zenith, Traverse the Ulvenwald, Congregation at Dawn and Morir Vig and some budget planeswalkers with Elspeth vs Kioria, Nissa vs Ob Nixilis, new Ajani, Vraska, Dovin Baan, newest Sorin & Nissa VF.
I would say there is a 50% chance one of my opponents is playing Derivi, no idea who other guy is playing. With all this being said who do you think my best bet would be to go with, also feel free to comment on who you think the best +1/+1 counter commander is disregarding what i have (feel free to pick someone other then the three i mention) the only cards that i mentioned that i don't plan on getting any time soon are probably Doubling Season and Vampiric Tutor.
In competitive EDH, most +1/+1 counter themed decks are held back by a relatively slow setup rate. Ghave, Guru of Spores is probably the least affected by this, as his abilities can have an immediate effect on the boardstate. Marath, Will of the Wild does it better though IMO.
Although she does not have built-in protection or an immediate effect on boardstate, I personally prefer Atraxa, Praetors' Voice. She probably won't stand toe-to-toe with many other competitive EDH decks like Derevi, Empyrial Tactician though.
Ezuri, Claw of Progress is not a competitive commander. I wouldn't even consider him an option compared to the other two.
In competitive EDH, most +1/+1 counter themed decks are held back by a relatively slow setup rate. Ghave, Guru of Spores is probably the least affected by this, as his abilities can have an immediate effect on the boardstate. Marath, Will of the Wild does it better though IMO.
Fair enough. Marath's cheaper, but doesn't have interactions with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. On the plus side, he does have a good interaction with Keen Sense and Snake Umbra since they say "damage" and not "combat damage". Or you can just give him Blade of the Bloodchief and Basilisk Collar and you have a gun. And he gives you access to Purphoros. So he's even more Swiss Army Knife than Ghave, plus the addition of red.
Although she does not have built-in protection or an immediate effect on boardstate, I personally prefer Atraxa, Praetors' Voice. She probably won't stand toe-to-toe with many other competitive EDH decks like Derevi, Empyrial Tactician though.
I'd argue that Atraxa depends heavily on how much instant-speed removal your meta has, and if it says "nonblack" or "nongreen". I would also argue that a competitive player realizes the value of instant-speed removal.
Ezuri, Claw of Progress is not a competitive commander. I wouldn't even consider him an option compared to the other two.
Ezuri does have an infinite combo, and fairly easy to execute (basically you use Deranged Hermit to give yourself five experience counters, then bring out Sage of Hours), but Marath and Ghave pretty much are the kings of "I accidentally the game."
Jenara's kind of interesting, just because she shows how quickly a bad aura (Daily Regimen) can become good just by being stapled on a creature. I see Mimeoplasm as more of
You forgot Vorosh, the Hunter, another Voltron commander: Vorosh goes to 21 (actually 36) in three turns, and one-shots subsequent opponents. And that's without adding extras. Toss a Whispersilk Cloak on him and your opponents are pretty boned (though not completely).
Animar, Soul of Elements is probably the most competitive +1/+1 counter related commander, but doesn't directly support +1/+1 counters on other cards.
Yeah, Animar's more about ETB triggers and storm.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I voted Ghave because I have a Ghave +1/+1 counter-themed deck, but one of the things about Ghave is that its abilities can combo out with so many cards that an aggro +1/+1 counter theme is almost secondary to just winning with a combo. Most of the combo cards are +1/+1 counter support cards anyway, so its not like you have to go out of your way to run any of them. The issue isn't how to find cards that work well with Ghave, its trying to cut it down to only 99...
You forgot Vorosh, the Hunter, another Voltron commander: Vorosh goes to 21 (actually 36) in three turns, and one-shots subsequent opponents. And that's without adding extras. Toss a Whispersilk Cloak on him and your opponents are pretty boned (though not completely).
Skipped out Vorosh, the Hunter on purpose. At 6 CMC he's too slow for voltron IMO, 5 CMC is already a push. As he has no inherent protection, if he eats removal upon entering play (he will, its competitive), he now costs 8 CMC, then 10 CMC... Sure his ability is great, but that's not enough in competitive commander. Again, IMO. You can make a bigger, scarier, self-protected Mimi much easier.
Ghave allows for explosive plays where you can either go wide or tall with him.
Atraxa is slow but consistent and benefits wide plays.
Ezuri prefers tall plays.
I think of Ezuri more as "go wide so you can go tall". You're definitely playing a bunch of creatures with power 2 or less or things that make tokens with power 2 or less, but the point is what you're doing with them, e.g. Blighted Agent, Invisible Stalker, and Sage of Hours are all potential wincons. Or you can play them defensively, e.g. with spikes.
Ghave and Marath are the "combo players". Obviously there are differences: Besides obvious color differences (Ghave is black, Marath is red.), you can (for instance) give Marath Konda's Banner to give all your elemental tokens made by Marath (and Omnath, Locus of Rage, a nice death trigger in Marath and some more tokens) +2/+2, you can put Snake Umbra on Marath and turn the counters into cards or put Basilisk Collar on him and have a gun for creatures to compliment both decks' other gun Aura Shards. Marath's tokens can go tall, something Ghave's can't do. Marath has another synergy with Heartstone that Ghave doesn't.
Ghave's best side is that he's so controlling. You can more or less remove three whole permanent types with little work. (Grave Pact for big creatures, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite for small creatures, Aura Shards for artifacts and enchantments.)
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I just played a game where I had Corpsejack Menace, Reyhan and Sage of Hours. I targeted Reyhan with kicked Rite of Replication, putting 360 counters on Sage of hours due to Legend rule, taking 72 extra turns.
I play a 5c list, as I really wanted to play Marchesa, the Black Rose, Hardened Scales, and Cathars' Crusade in the same deck. Its quite fun to play, as a lowly 1-drop grows to ridiculous sizes very quickly. Five colors also gives you access to counterspells and Ghostway that prevent wraths and such.
The commander I use doesn't really matter, but I use Sliver Queen, as she is a useful mana sink in the later game, and actually fits quite nicely with several cards.
If there is any interest I can post my list in the multiplayer section of this forum, and link it here.
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I would say there is a 50% chance one of my opponents is playing Derivi, no idea who other guy is playing. With all this being said who do you think my best bet would be to go with, also feel free to comment on who you think the best +1/+1 counter commander is disregarding what i have (feel free to pick someone other then the three i mention) the only cards that i mentioned that i don't plan on getting any time soon are probably Doubling Season and Vampiric Tutor.
Although she does not have built-in protection or an immediate effect on boardstate, I personally prefer Atraxa, Praetors' Voice. She probably won't stand toe-to-toe with many other competitive EDH decks like Derevi, Empyrial Tactician though.
Ezuri, Claw of Progress is not a competitive commander. I wouldn't even consider him an option compared to the other two.
The Mimeoplasm, Jenara, Asura of War or Skullbriar, the Walking Grave can make a good voltron +1/+1 counter setup. They are generally less competitive than Ghave or Atraxa though.
Animar, Soul of Elements is probably the most competitive +1/+1 counter related commander, but doesn't directly support +1/+1 counters on other cards.
Fair enough. Marath's cheaper, but doesn't have interactions with Mikaeus, the Unhallowed. On the plus side, he does have a good interaction with Keen Sense and Snake Umbra since they say "damage" and not "combat damage". Or you can just give him Blade of the Bloodchief and Basilisk Collar and you have a gun. And he gives you access to Purphoros. So he's even more Swiss Army Knife than Ghave, plus the addition of red.
I'd argue that Atraxa depends heavily on how much instant-speed removal your meta has, and if it says "nonblack" or "nongreen". I would also argue that a competitive player realizes the value of instant-speed removal.
Ezuri does have an infinite combo, and fairly easy to execute (basically you use Deranged Hermit to give yourself five experience counters, then bring out Sage of Hours), but Marath and Ghave pretty much are the kings of "I accidentally the game."
Jenara's kind of interesting, just because she shows how quickly a bad aura (Daily Regimen) can become good just by being stapled on a creature. I see Mimeoplasm as more of
You forgot Vorosh, the Hunter, another Voltron commander: Vorosh goes to 21 (actually 36) in three turns, and one-shots subsequent opponents. And that's without adding extras. Toss a Whispersilk Cloak on him and your opponents are pretty boned (though not completely).
Yeah, Animar's more about ETB triggers and storm.
On phasing:
The beauty of something like Atraxa is that you can essentially run everything from a Ghave deck and add in blue for Cyclonic Rift, counterspells, even better card draw, and +1/+1 counter all-stars like Vorel of the Hull Clade, Prime Speaker Zegana, Deepglow Skate, Fathom Mage, Master Biomancer, Inexorable Tide, etc.
Skipped out Vorosh, the Hunter on purpose. At 6 CMC he's too slow for voltron IMO, 5 CMC is already a push. As he has no inherent protection, if he eats removal upon entering play (he will, its competitive), he now costs 8 CMC, then 10 CMC... Sure his ability is great, but that's not enough in competitive commander. Again, IMO. You can make a bigger, scarier, self-protected Mimi much easier.
Atraxa is slow but consistent and benefits wide plays.
Ezuri prefers tall plays.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I think of Ezuri more as "go wide so you can go tall". You're definitely playing a bunch of creatures with power 2 or less or things that make tokens with power 2 or less, but the point is what you're doing with them, e.g. Blighted Agent, Invisible Stalker, and Sage of Hours are all potential wincons. Or you can play them defensively, e.g. with spikes.
Ghave and Marath are the "combo players". Obviously there are differences: Besides obvious color differences (Ghave is black, Marath is red.), you can (for instance) give Marath Konda's Banner to give all your elemental tokens made by Marath (and Omnath, Locus of Rage, a nice death trigger in Marath and some more tokens) +2/+2, you can put Snake Umbra on Marath and turn the counters into cards or put Basilisk Collar on him and have a gun for creatures to compliment both decks' other gun Aura Shards. Marath's tokens can go tall, something Ghave's can't do. Marath has another synergy with Heartstone that Ghave doesn't.
Ghave's best side is that he's so controlling. You can more or less remove three whole permanent types with little work. (Grave Pact for big creatures, Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite for small creatures, Aura Shards for artifacts and enchantments.)
Marath adds Mana Echoes (though both can use Cathars' Crusade + Workhorse) as an option, and you can use Purphoros, God of the Forge or Goblin Bombardment or some Pandemonium variant as another wincon.
Off-topic: Who made your sig?
On phasing:
I just played a game where I had Corpsejack Menace, Reyhan and Sage of Hours. I targeted Reyhan with kicked Rite of Replication, putting 360 counters on Sage of hours due to Legend rule, taking 72 extra turns.
Reyhan gets so absurd with things like Blade of Selves, Spitting Image, etc.
It can go infinite in a lot of ways, but I like putting absurd numbers of counters on things for big non-infinite stuff.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
The commander I use doesn't really matter, but I use Sliver Queen, as she is a useful mana sink in the later game, and actually fits quite nicely with several cards.
If there is any interest I can post my list in the multiplayer section of this forum, and link it here.