I want VAMPIRES more than any other tribe, as there are a lot of good vampire legends, but none that work well with or care about other vampires. Both Olivias want the deck to be about her, not about vampires. And there are too many good W vampires not to have W in the legend.
Angels? Oh please! Kaalia, much as I like her, just couldn't do it well enough.
Dragons and Wizards? I won't say no. I love them both.
The only thing that could be better would be to switch either Dragons or Wizards for an Abzan colored Elf legend
Not super thrilled with tribal commanders. Tribes always to me smell like deckbuilding for simpletons. Rather than have to think through a clever plan for your deck, thinking through synergies, combos, curves, weaknesses, answers, etc, just shove a bunch of stuff that tells you what it synergizes with right on the card. I'm a real deckbuilder now!
I'm being too pessimistic. It'll probably be fine. There are tribal commanders that encourage smart deckbuilding, and anyway most people just play goodstuff.dec regardless, or the just treat +1/+1 counters like it's a tribe, or counterspells like it's a tribe, or lifegain matters like it's a tribe, or whatever. I guess it's hard to make a deck cohesive with 100 cards without it just turning into "all these cards interact with X".
I just hope ALL the commanders aren't tribal. Seems pretty redundant if it was, each tribe really only needs 1 commander in its main color combination. I just hope it's not like "ooh, this one gives all zombies +1/+1, but this one gives all zombies menace! What should i chooooooose?".
I do think it's smart to move away from cycle-decks. Had to happen sooner or later.
No Cephalids, Horrors or Nantuko of course because apparently liking Otaria triggers Creative somehow. But if we're gonna have zombies please at least reprint a bunch of the Invasion-Scourge era ones. They're near impossible to find NM nowadays.
Vampires would be awesome too. Knights, Angels, Dragons, Fearies. Anything but Eldrazi and Allies, that I suspect we'll get.
No Cephalids, Horrors or Nantuko of course because apparently liking Otaria triggers Creative somehow. But if we're gonna have zombies please at least reprint a bunch of the Invasion-Scourge era ones. They're near impossible to find NM nowadays.
Vampires would be awesome too. Knights, Angels, Dragons, Fearies. Anything but Eldrazi and Allies, that I suspect we'll get.
Yes, Vampires! Please, Vampires!
I would like Angels and Faeries, too. And Elves if they are Abzan.
I really would prefer not to have Eldrazi, Allies, or Slivers.
Id just like a synergistic Werewolf legend or even just the first ever lone legendary wolf (Voja from Tolsimir Wolfblood is cool but obviously doesn't count). Big hopes would be samurai or foxes for me, ninjas for my one friend.
If it's vampires, Drana will be pleased. I'm just really hoping it's not zombies, elves, goblins, angels or dragons. I love the iconic tribes as much as everyone else, but if this isn't the product to spread the tribal love, then what is?
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Vorthos-player with way too much time on his hands and a love of thematic decks.
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
No Cephalids, Horrors or Nantuko of course because apparently liking Otaria triggers Creative somehow. But if we're gonna have zombies please at least reprint a bunch of the Invasion-Scourge era ones. They're near impossible to find NM nowadays.
Vampires would be awesome too. Knights, Angels, Dragons, Fearies. Anything but Eldrazi and Allies, that I suspect we'll get.
Not super thrilled with tribal commanders. Tribes always to me smell like deckbuilding for simpletons. Rather than have to think through a clever plan for your deck, thinking through synergies, combos, curves, weaknesses, answers, etc, just shove a bunch of stuff that tells you what it synergizes with right on the card. I'm a real deckbuilder now!
I'm also not a fan of tribal decks for the reasons you mentioned but also you basically are shoehorned into playing certain cards. For example if you play Elves you have to play Priest of Titania, you have to play Llanowar Elves, you have to play Elvish Archdruid, etc. The synergies are so obvious that you basically are playing a good stuff deck and all the tribal decks look the same or play in very similar fashion (i.e. all tribal elves EDH decks run a lot of mana dorks, generate a lot of mana and play a lot of creatures).
Wishful thinking we get some strong tribal support for tribes that are versatile but do not have a lot of support at this time. A good example is Wizards. Dark Confidant, Sylvan Safekeeper, and Cursecatcher are all very powerful wizards that do different things. Unfortunately building a tribal Wizard deck doesn't lend itself with any strong incentive aside from Azami, Lady of Scrolls, Patron Wizard, and maybe 2 other cards.
I would imagine we will get a few new cards that are like Coat of Arms in that they encourage players to play tribal but can be used outside of just one deck.
So I like the idea that this is going to be 4 5-color decks, but I do not expect that we'll get something like Elementals, Dragons, Allies, and Slivers. Those tribes all have plenty of solid support with an appropriately 5-colored Commander and don't need additional pushing from a Commander set. If they do go 5-color decks, I hope that Scarecrows is one of them.
I think that we'll end up with 4 tribes like UWB Merfolk, RGWerewolves, RWG Samurai, and UB Ninjas. None of those tribes has an appropriate general to use to get the color combination you really want (and no, I'm not counting the horrible Ulrich of the Krallenhorde), so it makes sense to give players one.
As much as I like goblins and elves, they got a bunch of cards and commanders, really hope they don't make them, I can make like 10 tribal decks for goblins/elves with what's available already. I have a feeling it can be 4 5-colored decks, because...
4 decks instead of 5, 5 decks with 5 colored commanders would be much harder.
Tribal support, to give full support to a tribe, having all colors is the best, for example, even though elves are mostly green, there are elves on all 5 colors in which depending on the tribal deck you make, some elves can't be inserted, so 5 colors allows a very wide range of cards in them.
One of the few ways to actually insert 5 colored commanders without breaking the "color pie", having tribal legendaries.
That is my thought, maybe its the first non-colored oriented set they make, but I got a strong feeling it will be 5-colored commanders
Edit: Well reading here it said they won't make it color pie oriented so... I'm in doubt now
What I would do if I were WotC would be combination large and small tribe decks. Jund Dragons and Goblins, Grixis Demons and Zombies, Esper Sphinxes and Wizards, Bant Angels and Soldiers, Naya Giants and Elves.
I think it may not be limited to race, there would probably be CLASS themes like soldiers, wizards, that way allows a wider, more variant deck style and colors in each.
I'm hoping it's more in this vein, were they are Shamans and Warriors, not Elves and Zombies. Gruul Shaman decks sound sweet compares to just plain Elves.
I want VAMPIRES more than any other tribe, as there are a lot of good vampire legends, but none that work well with or care about other vampires. Both Olivias want the deck to be about her, not about vampires. And there are too many good W vampires not to have W in the legend.
If they do make a Vampire deck, I hope it's UBR. I want more toys for Garza Zol.
How can anyone not think RG werewolves is a shoe in? These decks would have started in R&D the exact time of the Ulrich Sucktastic Alpha kerfuffle. Ulrich was a mistake they know it, they admitted it.
Knowing we wont see werewolves or flip cards for a while i see them using this as the perfect opportunity. Give the fans a proper Werewolf general and a supplemental product large enuf to justify DFCs thereby enabling this general and reprints that are undoable in say, a duel deck. A werewolf deck alone will give enuf DFCs to justify the extra cost/effort, add in another 6-12 from the other decks and thats gotta.be more DFCs than a small set would have.
I want VAMPIRES more than any other tribe, as there are a lot of good vampire legends, but none that work well with or care about other vampires. Both Olivias want the deck to be about her, not about vampires. And there are too many good W vampires not to have W in the legend.
If they do make a Vampire deck, I hope it's UBR. I want more toys for Garza Zol.
I prefer the W Vampires to the U ones, but if the general worked, I wouldn't say no to a Grixis general for my Vampires.
Please, please... I want just the Vampire legend for Vampire tribal.
Abzan Elves would be cool. Something to make tribal Angels work...
DFCs in a supplemental product that also prints new cards would also allow them the ability to print DFCs that would break standard but are "meh" in eternal formats.
The more i think about this, the more i think WotC is completely f**kin stupid if they passed on this oppurtunity
Not super thrilled with tribal commanders. Tribes always to me smell like deckbuilding for simpletons. Rather than have to think through a clever plan for your deck, thinking through synergies, combos, curves, weaknesses, answers, etc, just shove a bunch of stuff that tells you what it synergizes with right on the card. I'm a real deckbuilder now!
I'm also not a fan of tribal decks for the reasons you mentioned but also you basically are shoehorned into playing certain cards. For example if you play Elves you have to play Priest of Titania, you have to play Llanowar Elves, you have to play Elvish Archdruid, etc. The synergies are so obvious that you basically are playing a good stuff deck and all the tribal decks look the same or play in very similar fashion (i.e. all tribal elves EDH decks run a lot of mana dorks, generate a lot of mana and play a lot of creatures).
Wishful thinking we get some strong tribal support for tribes that are versatile but do not have a lot of support at this time. A good example is Wizards. Dark Confidant, Sylvan Safekeeper, and Cursecatcher are all very powerful wizards that do different things. Unfortunately building a tribal Wizard deck doesn't lend itself with any strong incentive aside from Azami, Lady of Scrolls, Patron Wizard, and maybe 2 other cards.
I would imagine we will get a few new cards that are like Coat of Arms in that they encourage players to play tribal but can be used outside of just one deck.
For some of the really big tribes like elves, I agree, but most archetypes have must run cards anyway, so it really isn't that different.
Yes, some people approach tribal as deck building on easy mode, but that isn't the only attraction.
First of all, don't discount the Timmy factor. A lot of people get into this game not to be super creative deck auteurs or cut throat spikes, but to get to play with dragons and *****. There are players who run elves for no other reason than they want to throw an army of elves at their opponents and act all eco-pretentious, and players that pick up a zombie deck because they want to control a zombie horde like Lillian, just like there are players who put together stax because they have fun shutting their opponents out of the game, permission based control because they want to feel like a wise old wizard saying no, or spellslinger because throwing out fireballs is the *****.
Secondly, tribal lets you run cards that would never have a home in any other deck, but become good enough because of the tribal synergy. Horobi is one of my favorite commanders because he makes bad cards like Ghosts of the Damned into weapons. Tribal functions in much the same way.
Third, building tribal can be a deck building challenge (mostly for lesser supported tribes, but even for some of the more established ones). Weaker tribes make you think about what non tribal cards work best with what the tribe is trying to do, and for most tribes you can get into some real fun trying to build them in a non standard way. Instead of ramp and beatdown with dragons, you could go control, with a smaller amount of dragons serving as finishers with some extra tribal synergy on top (like Crux).
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Are the original elder dragons on the reserve list? If not this would be a great time IMO to reprint some of them if not all as part of a dragon tribal,but I doubt Nicol Bolas would be reprinted so soon to a set with him as the focus coming out and with Archenemy: Nicol Bolas Box Set coming out also.
Ugh, you just gave me terrible flashbacks of what they did to the rogue class in WoW. /shudder
The Mimeoplasm || Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher || Vial Smasher/Tymna Group Slug
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief || Talrand, Sky Summoner
Yidris - Unblockable Saboteurs || Kiki-Jiki, ETB breaker
Kess, Dissident Mage
Yes. Yes, I would be happy with this.
I want VAMPIRES more than any other tribe, as there are a lot of good vampire legends, but none that work well with or care about other vampires. Both Olivias want the deck to be about her, not about vampires. And there are too many good W vampires not to have W in the legend.
Angels? Oh please! Kaalia, much as I like her, just couldn't do it well enough.
Dragons and Wizards? I won't say no. I love them both.
The only thing that could be better would be to switch either Dragons or Wizards for an Abzan colored Elf legend
I'm being too pessimistic. It'll probably be fine. There are tribal commanders that encourage smart deckbuilding, and anyway most people just play goodstuff.dec regardless, or the just treat +1/+1 counters like it's a tribe, or counterspells like it's a tribe, or lifegain matters like it's a tribe, or whatever. I guess it's hard to make a deck cohesive with 100 cards without it just turning into "all these cards interact with X".
I just hope ALL the commanders aren't tribal. Seems pretty redundant if it was, each tribe really only needs 1 commander in its main color combination. I just hope it's not like "ooh, this one gives all zombies +1/+1, but this one gives all zombies menace! What should i chooooooose?".
I do think it's smart to move away from cycle-decks. Had to happen sooner or later.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Vampires would be awesome too. Knights, Angels, Dragons, Fearies. Anything but Eldrazi and Allies, that I suspect we'll get.
Yes, Vampires! Please, Vampires!
I would like Angels and Faeries, too. And Elves if they are Abzan.
I really would prefer not to have Eldrazi, Allies, or Slivers.
If it's vampires, Drana will be pleased. I'm just really hoping it's not zombies, elves, goblins, angels or dragons. I love the iconic tribes as much as everyone else, but if this isn't the product to spread the tribal love, then what is?
EDH - Yes, Each One is Named After a Song. I love tying music to my decks.
B Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief B - Fear of the Dark
WG Sigarda, Heron's Grace WG - Strength in Numbers
RG Xenagos, God of Revels RG - Fullmoon (It's werewolves)
RW Archangel Avacyn // Avacyn, the Purifier RW - The End is Nigh
60 Card Kitchen Table Decks
WUB Avacyn, Spirit Ferrier
RG Arlinn Kord's Howlpack
There will be 56 new cards in total, so 14 cards in each deck (assuming they're evenly distributed)
Blue lives don't matter in the slightest.
With a reprint of Vampire Nocturnus please
I'm also not a fan of tribal decks for the reasons you mentioned but also you basically are shoehorned into playing certain cards. For example if you play Elves you have to play Priest of Titania, you have to play Llanowar Elves, you have to play Elvish Archdruid, etc. The synergies are so obvious that you basically are playing a good stuff deck and all the tribal decks look the same or play in very similar fashion (i.e. all tribal elves EDH decks run a lot of mana dorks, generate a lot of mana and play a lot of creatures).
Wishful thinking we get some strong tribal support for tribes that are versatile but do not have a lot of support at this time. A good example is Wizards. Dark Confidant, Sylvan Safekeeper, and Cursecatcher are all very powerful wizards that do different things. Unfortunately building a tribal Wizard deck doesn't lend itself with any strong incentive aside from Azami, Lady of Scrolls, Patron Wizard, and maybe 2 other cards.
I would imagine we will get a few new cards that are like Coat of Arms in that they encourage players to play tribal but can be used outside of just one deck.
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
I think that we'll end up with 4 tribes like UWB Merfolk, RGWerewolves, RWG Samurai, and UB Ninjas. None of those tribes has an appropriate general to use to get the color combination you really want (and no, I'm not counting the horrible Ulrich of the Krallenhorde), so it makes sense to give players one.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
4 decks instead of 5, 5 decks with 5 colored commanders would be much harder.
Tribal support, to give full support to a tribe, having all colors is the best, for example, even though elves are mostly green, there are elves on all 5 colors in which depending on the tribal deck you make, some elves can't be inserted, so 5 colors allows a very wide range of cards in them.
One of the few ways to actually insert 5 colored commanders without breaking the "color pie", having tribal legendaries.
That is my thought, maybe its the first non-colored oriented set they make, but I got a strong feeling it will be 5-colored commanders
Edit: Well reading here it said they won't make it color pie oriented so... I'm in doubt now
I'm hoping it's more in this vein, were they are Shamans and Warriors, not Elves and Zombies. Gruul Shaman decks sound sweet compares to just plain Elves.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
One deck will be either gobli, elf, or zombie, another deck will be 5 color, one will be colorless, and one will be something completely random.
If they do make a Vampire deck, I hope it's UBR. I want more toys for Garza Zol.
So in thinking sonething like
mono colored (goblins, elves)
RG Werewolves
3 color humans
5 color slivers
Knowing we wont see werewolves or flip cards for a while i see them using this as the perfect opportunity. Give the fans a proper Werewolf general and a supplemental product large enuf to justify DFCs thereby enabling this general and reprints that are undoable in say, a duel deck. A werewolf deck alone will give enuf DFCs to justify the extra cost/effort, add in another 6-12 from the other decks and thats gotta.be more DFCs than a small set would have.
I prefer the W Vampires to the U ones, but if the general worked, I wouldn't say no to a Grixis general for my Vampires.
Please, please... I want just the Vampire legend for Vampire tribal.
Abzan Elves would be cool. Something to make tribal Angels work...
But mostly Vampires. PLEASE!
The more i think about this, the more i think WotC is completely f**kin stupid if they passed on this oppurtunity
For some of the really big tribes like elves, I agree, but most archetypes have must run cards anyway, so it really isn't that different.
Yes, some people approach tribal as deck building on easy mode, but that isn't the only attraction.
First of all, don't discount the Timmy factor. A lot of people get into this game not to be super creative deck auteurs or cut throat spikes, but to get to play with dragons and *****. There are players who run elves for no other reason than they want to throw an army of elves at their opponents and act all eco-pretentious, and players that pick up a zombie deck because they want to control a zombie horde like Lillian, just like there are players who put together stax because they have fun shutting their opponents out of the game, permission based control because they want to feel like a wise old wizard saying no, or spellslinger because throwing out fireballs is the *****.
Secondly, tribal lets you run cards that would never have a home in any other deck, but become good enough because of the tribal synergy. Horobi is one of my favorite commanders because he makes bad cards like Ghosts of the Damned into weapons. Tribal functions in much the same way.
Third, building tribal can be a deck building challenge (mostly for lesser supported tribes, but even for some of the more established ones). Weaker tribes make you think about what non tribal cards work best with what the tribe is trying to do, and for most tribes you can get into some real fun trying to build them in a non standard way. Instead of ramp and beatdown with dragons, you could go control, with a smaller amount of dragons serving as finishers with some extra tribal synergy on top (like Crux).
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
some day. some day beeble tribal will be a thing, and i will be its grand architect