Why isn't this card played more? I have a feeling it's because it's too expensive for competitive play and destroys lands which is anathema to casual play. In casual competitive environments, though, I see it doing a lot of work. Sure, it sucks against tokens/wide strategies, but against MBC those decks are rarely a threat anyway. The real strength of the card is landing it against control decks. While it's easy to just attach it to a creature and wrath away, control decks are often creature light and focus on building their manabases/sculpting their hands, and Nettlevine Blight punishes that severely. In my limited testing, I found that ramping into it on turn 4 basically makes a player lose the game. There's virtually no way to recover.
Anyone else have any experience with it? I'm a little concerned about the 'meanness' factor but I recently caved and added Death Cloud/Infernal Darkness to my list so, I guess I'm just a jerk now.
It costs too much, it is too slow (for the effect to trigger), it is too slow (give it flash, and it *might* see more play), they can sac in response, it does not hit enough permanent types, and it paints a target on you as a jerk for playing a silly, annoying removal card.
Also, too color-restrictive and can't self-recur/any reason that some auras are not great.
It costs too much, it is too slow (for the effect to trigger), it is too slow (give it flash, and it *might* see more play), they can sac in response, it does not hit enough permanent types, and it paints a target on you as a jerk for playing a silly, annoying removal card.
Also, too color-restrictive and can't self-recur/any reason that some auras are not great.
I'll concede that it's slow, but the only land sac enabler I see is Zuran Orb once in a blue moon, which is super risky since I run Worst Fears. Obviously you'll cast Blight on a land first, and if they're a control deck they likely won't have any options besides lands. As noted, having it come back on a creature only to have said creature killed sucks, but I've seen the card lock people out of the game. I think I'll keep it in the list a little longer to test it out more, but I think between the meanness/annoyance factor and slowness I'll be looking to test out other powerful 6cmc cards. I think it's better than you give it credit for but you do bring up reasonable criticisms.
I can see that if a player has no way to remove it, it's hilarious. However, if the permanent it enchants leaves play for any other reason, Nettlevine Blight simply falls off. For a piece of removal, it is overcosted, too slow and too conditional.
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I feel like Sinkhole would be better most of the time. It is really slow before the extra mana investment is worth it. The first time, I sac my land, throw it on my general. Now if you kill my general, it falls off, so I am free to attack you. After two turns if I still don't have a way of bouncing or sacrificing my general, or of destroying the enchantment, then maybe it starts being worthwhile.
Yeah, beyond being slow and expensive, the problem is that everyone runs sac outlets and blink.
The best case scenario is usually that you put it on a land, and they don't have a way to sac lands, so the land dies, they put Nettlevine Blight on their worst creature, and then sac it to Ashnod's Altar or something.
So you've taken out a land and their worst creature for 4BB. I mean, it's a 2-for-1, but not a good deal on one.
It costs six mana. It's something I might run as part of a Replenish (bring it out two turns earlier) or Open the Vaults (still bring it out for six mana, but get a bunch of other things) package, but I have better things to do with it than extremely slow removal. (And waiting until the end of your opponent's next turn is too slow, considering Wrecking Ball costs 4, Grip of Desolation costs 6 without any red and is an instant, and Scour from Existence costs 7, is an instant, is colorless, and hits everything.)
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
As much as I want to like this card, it's too expensive given how many ways there are to be rid of it in the average deck.
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It is of limited use most of the time, for the reasons others list. I do run it in one deck, where it is very on theme (my Marrow-Gnawer rat tribal/disease subtheme deck), but even there, it is on the short list of potential cuts.
are there any other cards like this?
i mean repeated land destruction. i only know that giant from ravnika but consumed alot of mana. also the wording from this nettlevine card is a little strange so i dont know what kind of wording to search for to get all cards that destroy lands.
are there any other cards like this?
i mean repeated land destruction. i only know that giant from ravnika but consumed alot of mana. also the wording from this nettlevine card is a little strange so i dont know what kind of wording to search for to get all cards that destroy lands.
EDIT: No, still doesn't work as long as you control the enchantment.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
EDIT: No, still doesn't work as long as you control the enchantment.
Assuming that you are talking about Kudzu, you are correct in that there is no way to not have it end up on your lands as it avoids targeting restrictions when it comes back. The way around it its symmetrical nature is to use Simic Guildmage to move it over to an opponent's land. Throw in Icy Manipulator, Opposition, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, Frost Titan, etc. to make sure you can always tap the enchanted land.
Spreading Algae doesn't have that problem since it comes back to your hand. With Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in play, you can go to town on opposing lands with any repeatable tap effect.
Plus all the lands that sacrifice themselves (fetchlands, Strip Mine and friends, etc.) and Karoos. And y'know, just enchantment removal, since NB doesn't do anything until their end step.
Assuming that you are talking about Kudzu, you are correct in that there is no way to not have it end up on your lands as it avoids targeting restrictions when it comes back.
Just make sure your lands all have protection from green when Kudzu's trigger resolves!
For example, animate all of your lands (Living Plane, etc.) and then activate Glory in response to Kudzu.
Another option is to make your lands indestructible (eg, Terra Eternal, Elspeth, Knight-Errant emblem, Avacyn, Angel of Hope), since Kudzu uses destroy instead of sacrifice. Your opponent puts Kudzu on your land, you tap it, Kudzu tries to destroy it, then you put Kudzu on your opponent's land.
EDIT: No, still doesn't work as long as you control the enchantment.
Assuming that you are talking about Kudzu, you are correct in that there is no way to not have it end up on your lands as it avoids targeting restrictions when it comes back. The way around it its symmetrical nature is to use Simic Guildmage to move it over to an opponent's land. Throw in Icy Manipulator, Opposition, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, Frost Titan, etc. to make sure you can always tap the enchanted land.
Spreading Algae doesn't have that problem since it comes back to your hand. With Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in play, you can go to town on opposing lands with any repeatable tap effect.
Actually, that makes sense. Damn, old-school color hosers are OP.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I've had extensive experience with Nettlevine Blight. I use it for casual games. It's flavorful in the right decks and can be a real threat against the right opponent at the right time. As players we're spoiled by power creep and that's where "too expensive" "too slow" comments come in. We all know it's too expensive and slow but the flavor and mechanics of this card are great together! And isn't that what EDH is intended to be? Not too strong (Hail Bolas!), not a blowout, and not exclusively land destruction (which is really bad for casual games. exclusive land destruction that is).
Nettlevine Blight is a 5/5 for me when restricted to Casual Commander I'm glad you brought this card up.
I started playing around the time Fallen Empires was released, so, I know. You forgot Conversion, which shuts down burn decks instantly. Also, Acid Rain and (somewhat newer-school) Compost.
I remember in Shandalar, Karma pretty much meant "If your opponent controls any swamps, you win the game."
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Why isn't this card played more? I have a feeling it's because it's too expensive for competitive play and destroys lands which is anathema to casual play. In casual competitive environments, though, I see it doing a lot of work. Sure, it sucks against tokens/wide strategies, but against MBC those decks are rarely a threat anyway. The real strength of the card is landing it against control decks. While it's easy to just attach it to a creature and wrath away, control decks are often creature light and focus on building their manabases/sculpting their hands, and Nettlevine Blight punishes that severely. In my limited testing, I found that ramping into it on turn 4 basically makes a player lose the game. There's virtually no way to recover.
Anyone else have any experience with it? I'm a little concerned about the 'meanness' factor but I recently caved and added Death Cloud/Infernal Darkness to my list so, I guess I'm just a jerk now.
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Also, too color-restrictive and can't self-recur/any reason that some auras are not great.
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I'll concede that it's slow, but the only land sac enabler I see is Zuran Orb once in a blue moon, which is super risky since I run Worst Fears. Obviously you'll cast Blight on a land first, and if they're a control deck they likely won't have any options besides lands. As noted, having it come back on a creature only to have said creature killed sucks, but I've seen the card lock people out of the game. I think I'll keep it in the list a little longer to test it out more, but I think between the meanness/annoyance factor and slowness I'll be looking to test out other powerful 6cmc cards. I think it's better than you give it credit for but you do bring up reasonable criticisms.
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The best case scenario is usually that you put it on a land, and they don't have a way to sac lands, so the land dies, they put Nettlevine Blight on their worst creature, and then sac it to Ashnod's Altar or something.
So you've taken out a land and their worst creature for 4BB. I mean, it's a 2-for-1, but not a good deal on one.
Oh, and sac outlets like Goblin Bombardment and Ashnod's Altar exist. Or you can just put it on Strip Mine or a fetchland.
On phasing:
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AS far as cards that are like Nettlevine Blight, Kudzu and Spreading Algae are probably what you are looking for, the second of which is good with Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
As far as repeatable land destruction, you have Dust Bowl, Demonic Hordes, Helldozer, Dwarven Blastminer, Dwarven Miner, Detritivore, Seismic Mage (pair with Squee, Goblin Nabob for best results), Trench Wurm, and Shivan Harvest (pair with any sort of token-making).
You'll need Privileged Position to do it properly.
EDIT: No, still doesn't work as long as you control the enchantment.
On phasing:
Assuming that you are talking about Kudzu, you are correct in that there is no way to not have it end up on your lands as it avoids targeting restrictions when it comes back. The way around it its symmetrical nature is to use Simic Guildmage to move it over to an opponent's land. Throw in Icy Manipulator, Opposition, Derevi, Empyrial Tactician, Frost Titan, etc. to make sure you can always tap the enchanted land.
Spreading Algae doesn't have that problem since it comes back to your hand. With Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in play, you can go to town on opposing lands with any repeatable tap effect.
- Aether Barrier
- Angelic Purge
- Barrin, Master Wizard
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- Chain of Vapor
- Claws of Gix
- Constant Mists
- Crack the Earth
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- Curse of the Cabal
- Custody Battle
- Damping Engine
- Death Cloud
- Demonic Hordes
- Deprive
- Desolation
- Destructive Force
- Devastating Summons
- Dreamscape Artist
- Dust Bowl
- Glacial Chasm
- Hammer of Purphoros
- Harrow
- Impending Disaster
- Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
- Keldon Firebombers
- Khalni Gem
- Kjeldoran Outpost
- Knight of the Reliquary
- Lake of the Dead
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- Meloku the Clouded Mirror
- Mina and Denn, Wildborn
- Need for Speed
- Perilous Research
- Possessed Portal
- Pox
- Psychic Vortex
- Quirion Ranger
- Rain of Filth
- Read the Runes
- Restore Balance
- Rite of Ruin
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- Scryb Ranger
- Smallpox
- Smokestack
- Soramaro, First to Dream
- Squandered Resources
- Sylvan Safekeeper
- The Gitrog Monster
- Tremble
- Uyo, Silent Prophet
- Walk the Aeons
- Wave of Vitriol
- Wildfire
- World Queller
- Zuran Orb
Plus all the lands that sacrifice themselves (fetchlands, Strip Mine and friends, etc.) and Karoos. And y'know, just enchantment removal, since NB doesn't do anything until their end step.Just make sure your lands all have protection from green when Kudzu's trigger resolves!
For example, animate all of your lands (Living Plane, etc.) and then activate Glory in response to Kudzu.
Another option is to make your lands indestructible (eg, Terra Eternal, Elspeth, Knight-Errant emblem, Avacyn, Angel of Hope), since Kudzu uses destroy instead of sacrifice. Your opponent puts Kudzu on your land, you tap it, Kudzu tries to destroy it, then you put Kudzu on your opponent's land.
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Actually, that makes sense. Damn, old-school color hosers are OP.
On phasing:
I've had extensive experience with Nettlevine Blight. I use it for casual games. It's flavorful in the right decks and can be a real threat against the right opponent at the right time. As players we're spoiled by power creep and that's where "too expensive" "too slow" comments come in. We all know it's too expensive and slow but the flavor and mechanics of this card are great together! And isn't that what EDH is intended to be? Not too strong (Hail Bolas!), not a blowout, and not exclusively land destruction (which is really bad for casual games. exclusive land destruction that is).
Nettlevine Blight is a 5/5 for me when restricted to Casual Commander
Yup. Some of the commonly played old-school ones were these:
White had Circle of Protection: Red, Warmth, Pro-Black Knights, and Karma
Blue had Chill, Douse, Hydroblast, BEB, and Hibernation
Black had Dystopia, Perish, Deathgrip, Pro-White Knights, and Gloom
Red had Boil, Flashfires, Pyroblast, REB, and Anarchy
Green had Choke, Tsunami, Whirling Dervish, and Lifeforce
The color-hosing became much more tame over time, tapering off to things like Flashfreeze, Celestial Purge, Cryoclasm, and Deathmark.
Nowadays, we don't even get 'Protection from X' or Landwalk creatures...
I remember in Shandalar, Karma pretty much meant "If your opponent controls any swamps, you win the game."
On phasing: