Also, I think my combo is the most compact so far, but it's entirely possible I'm missing a refutation. Certainly wouldn't be the first time...
Does it actually refute though? What actual synergy does the Squirrel Nest have with the Mentor? As if the subject matter was Throne of the God-Pharaoh you would be 100% correct.
I will concur however yours is more compact, 5 cards with a 10 total cmc.
Reaper, you certainly win by the rules as they're written. I think maybe they need to be refined somewhat just because I don't think that Rocket Launcher plus 240 mana should count as a combo all by itself. But that's neither here nor there.
I dont know. It would only be a problem if someone proposed Rocket Launcher and didnt specify that they didnt want that "combo".
In essence I think the point of the thread is to find a situration where the chosen card is the most efficient card. Rocket launcher might be the most efficient card if you only got 1 card and a ton of mana in colorless. Actually, that might be an idea: the guy proposing the card might specify some requiements on the combo.
Akki_Akki see 5hrs ago for Monkey, 5hrs ago for edit, 5hrs ago for wally. Akki_Akki not sure why time matters unless time somehow refutes Monkey. Anyway, Akki_Akki continue game and refute Monkey with own combo that uses less mana and less cards.
Akki_Akki see 5hrs ago for Monkey, 5hrs ago for edit, 5hrs ago for wally. Akki_Akki not sure why time matters unless time somehow refutes Monkey. Anyway, Akki_Akki continue game and refute Monkey with own combo that uses less mana and less cards.
If I might make a suggestion, the Throne of the God-Pharaoh would be helpful for you. As not only does it kill three or more players that turn, it would also b five cards with a combined mana cost of ten.
Akki_Akki see 5hrs ago for Monkey, 5hrs ago for edit, 5hrs ago for wally. Akki_Akki not sure why time matters unless time somehow refutes Monkey. Anyway, Akki_Akki continue game and refute Monkey with own combo that uses less mana and less cards.
If I might make a suggestion, the Throne of the God-Pharaoh would be helpful for you. As not only does it kill three or more players that turn, it would also b five cards with a combined mana cost of ten.
Back to lurking.
Anointed or Akki_Akki seems like the winner of this one, unless someone can come up with a refutation. If not, then I think Akki_Akki should come up with a card to put forward
Anointed or Akki_Akki seems like the winner of this one, unless someone can come up with a refutation. If not, then I think Akki_Akki should come up with a card to put forward
Well, neither my nor 256k combo were refuted either, so I am fairly sure that one of us wins.
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256k's combo used the salvagers, which goes infinite with lion's eye diamond on its own, so that refuted it, and yours isn't really a combo, as you need to pour the mana into it yourself. Additionally, you need some way to give it haste.
256k's combo used the salvagers, which goes infinite with lion's eye diamond on its own, so that refuted it, and yours isn't really a combo, as you need to pour the mana into it yourself. Additionally, you need some way to give it haste.
I did have haste (the memorial) and 256k's second combo is not refuted by Lions eye diamond. How much mana we use is not relevant except in so far that the combo might be refuted.
To be precise: We have 5 levels of combo per the first post, of which the relevant ones are level 1-3. A refutation needs to be on at least the same level as what it refutes. Level 1 is kill everybody now no matter how much life they got. Level 2 is to kill 3 players on 40. Level 3 is infinite mana. Mine is level 2 and has no refutation - you can not kill 3 players on 40 with any other card in that setup (with less than roughly twice as much mana as I used). 256ks was at first level 3 because he could not attack. Hence, lions eye diamond refutes (because it makes infinite mana in his setup). He when added memorial, and thus it rose to a level 1 combo. Hence, lion eye diamond does not refute (it only makes infinite mana but does not directly kill anyone).
I refute Akki_Akki's combo that is Class 4 with a better version of it that is of the same cost but utilizes one more card in order to make it Class 1.
I play Retraction Helix and target the Mentor, get a token. Play Intruder Alarm, get a token. Then Equip the Paradise Mantle to the first monk token without summoning sickness in order to produce U, activate the Monastery Mentor temporary activated ability to bounce the Paradise Mantle, play the Paradise Mantle from hand, untap my creatures, create a token, spend the remaining U in my pool to equip the Paradise Mantle to the first monk token. Rinse and repeat the token making process, until each monk you control has 9001 or more power and toughness. Repeat the process one last time but instead of producing U, you instead add R to your pool and then spend it to cast Mass Hysteria.
The number of cards used are five. The combined mana cost is eight.
I refute Akki_Akki's combo that is Class 4 with a better version of it that is of the same cost but utilizes one more card in order to make it Class 1.
I play Retraction Helix and target the Mentor, get a token. Play Intruder Alarm, get a token. Then Equip the Paradise Mantle to the first monk token without summoning sickness in order to produce U, activate the Monastery Mentor temporary activated ability to bounce the Paradise Mantle, play the Paradise Mantle from hand, untap my creatures, create a token, spend the remaining U in my pool to equip the Paradise Mantle to the first monk token. Rinse and repeat the token making process, until each monk you control has 9001 or more power and toughness. Repeat the process one last time but instead of producing U, you instead add R to your pool and then spend it to cast Mass Hysteria.
The number of cards used are five. The combined mana cost is eight.
Akki_Akki refutes your claim with the use of Splinter Twin. Akki_Akki nixes out Refraction Helix, Paradise Mantle, Mass Hysteria. Akki_Akki creates Class 1 combo with Splinter Twin + Monastery Mentor + Intruder Alarm. Three cards, ten cost. Most compact and lethal combo.
I refute Akki_Akki's combo that is Class 4 with a better version of it that is of the same cost but utilizes one more card in order to make it Class 1.
I play Retraction Helix and target the Mentor, get a token. Play Intruder Alarm, get a token. Then Equip the Paradise Mantle to the first monk token without summoning sickness in order to produce U, activate the Monastery Mentor temporary activated ability to bounce the Paradise Mantle, play the Paradise Mantle from hand, untap my creatures, create a token, spend the remaining U in my pool to equip the Paradise Mantle to the first monk token. Rinse and repeat the token making process, until each monk you control has 9001 or more power and toughness. Repeat the process one last time but instead of producing U, you instead add R to your pool and then spend it to cast Mass Hysteria.
The number of cards used are five. The combined mana cost is eight.
Akki_Akki refutes your claim with the use of Splinter Twin. Akki_Akki nixes out Refraction Helix, Paradise Mantle, Mass Hysteria. Akki_Akki creates Class 1 combo with Splinter Twin + Monastery Mentor + Intruder Alarm. Three cards, ten cost. Most compact and lethal combo.
I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding about what counts as refuting here. You don't win by coming up with the "best" combo with the lowest mana cost and fewest cards. You win by coming up with the first combo where the key card cannot be replaced by a single other card. All we care about is that the combo can only work with today's card, no matter how janky and expensive it is.
That said, continuing to suggest more efficient combos is very much in the spirit of the thread, it just won't win you the right to name the next card unless you can also refute the current earliest standing combo by the rules in the OP.
tap acolyte for mana
bounce visionary to untap acolyte
tap acolyte for mana
use sabertooth to bounce wirewood
play wirewood
play visionary - draw a card
bounce visionary to untap acolyte
ap acolyte for mana
...... infinite mana and drawing the deck to win with whatever. like infinite craterhoof behemoth play and bounce.
also when having yisan his verse production can go on...
as this is pretty generic - refutations please
Well, if Yisan is in play as well (which I think is the case because otherwise you would need some other green card to net mana on that loop), then Umbral Mantle refutes it. I think you can make it work by removing Yisan, adding some one mana elf and starting with visonary in hand (the rest will then make you infinite mana).
Well, if Yisan is in play as well (which I think is the case because otherwise you would need some other green card to net mana on that loop), then Umbral Mantle refutes it. I think you can make it work by removing Yisan, adding some one mana elf and starting with visonary in hand (the rest will then make you infinite mana).
yeah basically staff of domination with an elf tapping for enough does infinite mana and draw the deck.
so the umbral mantle stil makes sabertooth necessary for the draw deck part after having infinite mana.
but the mantle costs more than the symbiote. is that really a refutation?
i would also say having a Defiant Elf instead of yisan s the best setup for enough devotion.
My thoughts went as follows: his loop cost 5. Since he got mana from it, that means that that acolyte makes at least 6 mana per tap. That means that Yisan or some other g must be in play. If we remove wirewood that would be 5, but removing wirewood gives us 1 mana (from not having to play it in the first place). Hence, we got 6 mana to play, equip and use umbral mantle for the first time. Afterwards we only get 5 per tap, but that is ok, since untapping with umbra only cost 3.
Also, I think my combo is the most compact so far, but it's entirely possible I'm missing a refutation. Certainly wouldn't be the first time...
I will concur however yours is more compact, 5 cards with a 10 total cmc.
You edited it 2 mins after his post, so for all we know, you simply added it there.
I dont know. It would only be a problem if someone proposed Rocket Launcher and didnt specify that they didnt want that "combo".
In essence I think the point of the thread is to find a situration where the chosen card is the most efficient card. Rocket launcher might be the most efficient card if you only got 1 card and a ton of mana in colorless. Actually, that might be an idea: the guy proposing the card might specify some requiements on the combo.
Hmm, strange. On my screen it says that his got posted at :53 and your edit was at :55.
Do we could the pearl medallion towards the total combo cost?
This is only class 2. Sorry for no tags. I'm at work and in a rush.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Monastery Mentor + Retraction Helix + Midnight Guard + Springleaf Drum.
Cards = 4
Combined Mana Cost = 8
Back to lurking.
Anointed or Akki_Akki seems like the winner of this one, unless someone can come up with a refutation. If not, then I think Akki_Akki should come up with a card to put forward
Well, neither my nor 256k combo were refuted either, so I am fairly sure that one of us wins.
I did have haste (the memorial) and 256k's second combo is not refuted by Lions eye diamond. How much mana we use is not relevant except in so far that the combo might be refuted.
To be precise: We have 5 levels of combo per the first post, of which the relevant ones are level 1-3. A refutation needs to be on at least the same level as what it refutes. Level 1 is kill everybody now no matter how much life they got. Level 2 is to kill 3 players on 40. Level 3 is infinite mana. Mine is level 2 and has no refutation - you can not kill 3 players on 40 with any other card in that setup (with less than roughly twice as much mana as I used). 256ks was at first level 3 because he could not attack. Hence, lions eye diamond refutes (because it makes infinite mana in his setup). He when added memorial, and thus it rose to a level 1 combo. Hence, lion eye diamond does not refute (it only makes infinite mana but does not directly kill anyone).
Monastery Mentor + Intruder Alarm + Retraction Helix + Paradise Mantle + Mass Hysteria.
The key to this is I have already have Monastery Mentor, one Monk token and Paradise Mantle out, neither monk creature has summoning sickness either.
I play Retraction Helix and target the Mentor, get a token. Play Intruder Alarm, get a token. Then Equip the Paradise Mantle to the first monk token without summoning sickness in order to produce U, activate the Monastery Mentor temporary activated ability to bounce the Paradise Mantle, play the Paradise Mantle from hand, untap my creatures, create a token, spend the remaining U in my pool to equip the Paradise Mantle to the first monk token. Rinse and repeat the token making process, until each monk you control has 9001 or more power and toughness. Repeat the process one last time but instead of producing U, you instead add R to your pool and then spend it to cast Mass Hysteria.
The number of cards used are five. The combined mana cost is eight.
Akki_Akki refutes your claim with the use of Splinter Twin. Akki_Akki nixes out Refraction Helix, Paradise Mantle, Mass Hysteria. Akki_Akki creates Class 1 combo with Splinter Twin + Monastery Mentor + Intruder Alarm. Three cards, ten cost. Most compact and lethal combo.
Does Akki_Akki win?
I also refute Reaper 9889 and 256k's combos. Using my previously posted five card eight resource combo.
That said, continuing to suggest more efficient combos is very much in the spirit of the thread, it just won't win you the right to name the next card unless you can also refute the current earliest standing combo by the rules in the OP.
But here's my shot at this
Monastery Mentor + soothing balm + isochron scepter + paradox engine + sol ring
Two in one infinite life infinite 1/1 monks
You can refute it with e.g. Errand of Duty, since it together with isochron scepter + paradox engine + sol ring already gives you infinite tokens
Well, if Yisan is in play as well (which I think is the case because otherwise you would need some other green card to net mana on that loop), then Umbral Mantle refutes it. I think you can make it work by removing Yisan, adding some one mana elf and starting with visonary in hand (the rest will then make you infinite mana).
My thoughts went as follows: his loop cost 5. Since he got mana from it, that means that that acolyte makes at least 6 mana per tap. That means that Yisan or some other g must be in play. If we remove wirewood that would be 5, but removing wirewood gives us 1 mana (from not having to play it in the first place). Hence, we got 6 mana to play, equip and use umbral mantle for the first time. Afterwards we only get 5 per tap, but that is ok, since untapping with umbra only cost 3.