So pretty much, what the title says. I've been looking at building mono green for a while, and I really like Nissa, Vastwood Seer as a versatile general with a low CMC, built in ramp and some protection.
I don't really want to go straight for fatties - it's been done. I will probably add a small element of this to my deck as a backup plan, as I have a spare Pathbreaker Ibex, but I'm more interested in off the beaten track. I really enjoyed the theme of this deck, but I probably won't go quite as heavy control. Partially because I don't have a lot of the older cards that make this deck hum along.
I had toyed with the animate land idea, and I know this can be SUPER risky; splendid reclamation, asceticism and Eternal witness effects could help there. Another (probably really nasty) idea I had was to go with things like Gilt-leaf Archdruid, which I have kicking around in my folder, along with Sakiko, mother of summerSasaya, Orochi ascendant. I can see Sakiko having a place in generating some big mana, Sasaya maybe not. It could be hard to flip. I'm open to suggestions for what to do with all that mana as well.
What interesting ideas can you guys suggest to me? I would tend to prefer using interesting 'off the beaten track' cards and strategies if they are feasible, but I'm open to suggestions.
Well, I had a nice long post all typed up, but good old fat fingered me decided to hit the wrong button and delete it all.
Long story short, sakiko, mother of summer and sasaya, orochi ascendant have decks, but they are their own decks and would play very differently from something like nissa.
Control is a fine route to play, but in this case, I would run nissa for one primary reason: Her +1 after she flips, which is admittedly stupid easy. I like running the old hard to find green cards, but you certainly don't need to. This deck could quite easily be made out of almost only modern legal cards and still be very very good.
I would do enters the battlefield control, such as reclamation sage, uktabi orangutan, acidic slime, etc. or even consider activated ability control, which green tends to have some pretty good ones at times. There are even some excellent cards which can go with both strategies, such as tireless tracker (enters the battlefield landfall trigger and activated ability of the clue tokens therein) or architect of the untamed. Why do I suggest such and interesting combination? Because then you can run panharmonicon and rings of brighthearth for extra value even if the only other non land permanent you have is your general, they are still good. You can even get effectively more triggers out of them by running creatures green already would consider, like temur sabertooth. With all these utility guys, then your pathbreaker ibex gets to be pretty respectable as an alternative win condition. Mind you, I would still run some either spell/activated ability based artifact/enchantment removal or flier hate, just because torpor orb/hushwing gryff bites when your only answer is reclamation sage.
If you run a few creatures that enter and draw you cards or do things along those lines, then when you get a doubler/reuser, then you're set. Since you're running tons of creatures, garruk, caller of beasts becomes pretty good as he reads +1, reveal up to 5 control spells and put them in your hand, of course you can also consider other planeswalkers, though I might only consider freyalise, llanowar's fury because she is awfully good.
The best part of such a strategy is that it's mostly utility creatures which answer problems, which let you fly under the radar and lets someone else become a big target. The bad part of such a strategy is that there are precious few "good stuff" cards you can add because wrath effects are going to happen, so graveyard recursion becomes stupid important. Panharmonicon has a giant 'blow me up now" sign attached to it as far as I know! Thankfully, there are many excellent cards that run wild with that strategy already and they are all, as I said, modern legal. Even an old favorite of mine reprinted in tenth edition, abundance.
Yeah, I guess as much as I want to go in a different direction, sometimes it isn't a great idea. Sasaya's essence must be ridiculously hard to flip and requires several other cards to enable. Which is not necessary for big mana in mono green (Karametra's Acolyte).
As far as what I've got fleshed out so far, there's a fair amount of recursion (Eternal Witness, Greenwarden of Murasa, etc etc), a spare Nissa, Vital Force, and I would love to fit one of my favourite cards of all time in, Wild Pair. It should be doable.
I like the Panharmonicon idea, mono green seems a good place for it.
As far as disruption goes I do have the industry standard Krosan Grip and similar so I'm not too worried about being stalled out.
Hey I'm glad you liked my deck, honored you'd mention it.
I've actually been thinking about modifying it myself to be more along the lines that weltkrieg mentioned, a kind of creature-based control strategy (my irl playgroup doesn't seem to like constant mists and friends, and the deck has trouble surviving without that kind of protection). My only concern has been that Yeva, Nature's Herald might be the better choice for a deck like that, and I kind of want to stick with Nissa, Vastwood Seer. That said, there are a lot of cool options down that route, and there's a pretty active Yeva thread in the decklist forum that might be worth checking out if you haven't already. And Nissa does bring an element of card-draw to the table that Yeva, Nature's Herald doesn't, so there's definitely an argument for her.
anyway, just a thought re: the general choice. glad to see someone else considering mono green control
It isn't that it is a bad idea to play sasaya, but what she needs as a commander and what nissa needs are two very very different things. You can slap a nissa into a sasaya deck (I did, actually), but doing the reverse doesn't really work. A sasaya deck like mine can't really do much until it's getting something like 12 or 13 mana from a single tapping of a land. Most wouldn't build a deck with such insane requirements, but well, I do like to be different...
Anyways, I can stand by aslidiksoraksi's comments about yeva's decklist. Yeva is much better if you are trying for flash, which is why I suggested something akin to a mono green etb: the control spell. However, a few fogs that your playgroup doesn't like? Well, you can bend to their will or remind them that you are a mono green control deck. Do they prefer the fog or a hard lockdown such as I described in aslidiksoraksi's thread? I have much experience playing both. Most would prefer to see a fog deck, actually!
Regarding general, I do have a copy of Yeva, Nature's Herald, I guess I just don't feel it with her as much as with Nissa, Vastwood Seer. Yeva is more than welcome in the 99 as are a couple of other green legends I have kicking about (Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, Molimo, Maro Sorcerer, Hua Tuo, Honored Physician), but I just don't feel any particular lust to build around her - despite how good I know she could be. So, with that in mind, does that change the suggestion to build etb-control?
However, a few fogs that your playgroup doesn't like? Well, you can bend to their will or remind them that you are a mono green control deck. Do they prefer the fog or a hard lockdown such as I described in aslidiksoraksi's thread? I have much experience playing both. Most would prefer to see a fog deck, actually!
As much as I like the idea of an enchantress/control build, I'm certainly better equipped to build fog style. A lot of the lockdown cards in the linked thread I'd have to order, or dig through crates to find.
I wouldn't run yeva in the 99. She has too warping of an effect in how you play, though she is pretty good against other decks. That said, Hua tao would make an excellent addition to the 99. Low casting cost repeatable use creatures are excellent for this style of deck concept.
I wouldn't run yeva in the 99. She has too warping of an effect in how you play, though she is pretty good against other decks. That said, Hua tao would make an excellent addition to the 99. Low casting cost repeatable use creatures are excellent for this style of deck concept.
That sort of is what it's starting to look like: a low CMC toolbox deck. It could be fun.
I'm unsure as to whether Kamahl, fist of Krosa warrants a place - as tempted as I am to try land animation, it's hugely risky. That being said, with enough protection and land recursion it could work - I have a copy of Gilt-Leaf Archdruid around if there are any friends I don't want to speak to afterwards. Either way, any big mana lying around I can funnel into his overrun for an enormous alpha strike as a win con.
I'll try and post a list of some of the more definitive cards I would like to consider for a deck later on today - It'd be interesting to hear some feedback.
I'm interested in this idea with a kind of creature-based control deck more oriented around activated/ETB abilities though, that sounds good. just make sure to have some wrath protection of course. Kamahl, fist of Krosa can actually serve as a kind of anti-wrath rattlesnake, which is an additional reason to try him out.
also, not to state the obvious, but don't forget genesis, as well as maybe some of the eldrazi Titans. Would be a great game where you can play Temur Sabertooth and Emrakul, the Promised End in loop (and with a good chunk of mana, you could even drop her more than once in a turn!)
I'm interested in this idea with a kind of creature-based control deck more oriented around activated/ETB abilities though, that sounds good. just make sure to have some wrath protection of course. Kamahl, fist of Krosa can actually serve as a kind of anti-wrath rattlesnake, which is an additional reason to try him out.
also, not to state the obvious, but don't forget genesis, as well as maybe some of the eldrazi Titans. Would be a great game where you can play Temur Sabertooth and Emrakul, the Promised End in loop (and with a good chunk of mana, you could even drop her more than once in a turn!)
I don't think that would double up the way you're thinking. Sure, you could sabertooth the promised end back to hand repeatedly, but doing it twice on the same turn won't allow you to control more than one turn in a row. Per player, that being said. So yeah multiplayer if you can manage it that seems fun. Seems like a good way to make enemies too....
So, first off, I'd like to thank you for linking me to aslidsiksoraksi's Nissa, Vastwood Seer monogreen control list. I hadn't seen that before, and as fan of and advocate for more MGC, it was a fascinating read. I'm tinkering with Yeva, Nature's Herald right now, so I've been working with mostly creature-based builds and it was fascinating to read an enchantress take on things.
I will make one quick pitch for Yeva, Nature's Herald as the chief on an ETB-focused MGC deck, although I recognize that you are pretty firmly in favor of Nissa, and that's fine. The pitch: most green ETB control effects are spot removal of some sort (Acidic Slime, Woodfall Primus, Reclamation Sage, etc) and those effects are many times more effective at instant speed than at sorcery speed. It lets you make sure that you're spending them on the most immediate danger or interrupt a combo in progress. Yeva doesn't have the inbuilt card advantage of Nissa, but she does open up a lot of lines of play for green that it traditionally doesn't have. And it makes a lot of jank like Invasive Species and Timbermare into real cards!
That having been said, there are ways to simulate her effect and she does have a warping effect on deck construction. Aluren, Vernal Equinox, Vedalken Orrery, and Winding Canyons (er, not that I've spent a lot of time figuring out how to make green work at instant speed or anything) are all options for turbocharging green. If you do commit to a low-cc ETB deck, Aluren especially can be a powerhouse -- you'll make far better use of it than your opponents can, assuming you can keep up with the card draw.
So! On to what you are actually looking for. ETB creatures in green are most often abused in green with "bounce and recast" rather than the U/W blink version of ETB, so I'm assuming that you're not going to care about the distinction between an "enters the battlefield" clause and a "when you cast ~ from your hand" clause.
You said that you were looking for cheap ETB creatures in green, and that probably means you'll have some inbuilt elf synergy whether you want it or not. I'd recommend Wirewood Symbiote as a means to reuse elves and Priest of Titania as a low-cost, high-ceiling mana dork.
Speaking of which, wraths will be a nightmare for you unless you include Kamahl, Fist of Krosa. He's a one card win condition and board protector, and I recommend him in every green deck that relies on creatures.
Temur Sabertooth is a great card, but I'm not sure how many tutors you're planning on running (green has a ton of great ones, so long as you don't mind laying out the cash). Kitty is the best option, but you can back him up with things like Stampeding Wildebeests (and its clones), Cloudstone Curio, Blood Clock, or Conjurer's Closet. Panharmonicon is obviously bonkers if you commit to the ETB theme and it will be easier to weave into a deck that operates at sorcery speed. Do note that the Closet and Panharmonicon don't work with "on cast" triggers, only "enters the battlefield" triggers.
Big draw usually requires big mana. I don't know your budget, but you're playing creatures so I should at least mention Gaea's Cradle. If that is too expensive (and it really is..) then Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx can do a very good imitation for 1/20th the cost. If you decide to do land-based acceleration, then the Cradle/Nykthos can be backed up with things like Deserted Temple, Tempt with Discovery, and Crop Rotation, and there's a variety of creatures like Voyaging Satyr and Krosan Restorer that untap any land. If you want to stick with creature based, the aforementioned Priest of Titania and Selvala, Explorer Returned can generate huge returns, along with Karametra's Acolyte and any of the endless variety of onemanadorks. Most of them happen to be elves (and druids, for your Gilt-Leaf Archdruid).
Er, I'm afraid this post has turned a bit into a ramble. I hope there are at least a few useful bits in it!
I'm interested in this idea with a kind of creature-based control deck more oriented around activated/ETB abilities though, that sounds good. just make sure to have some wrath protection of course. Kamahl, fist of Krosa can actually serve as a kind of anti-wrath rattlesnake, which is an additional reason to try him out.
also, not to state the obvious, but don't forget genesis, as well as maybe some of the eldrazi Titans. Would be a great game where you can play Temur Sabertooth and Emrakul, the Promised End in loop (and with a good chunk of mana, you could even drop her more than once in a turn!)
I don't think that would double up the way you're thinking. Sure, you could sabertooth the promised end back to hand repeatedly, but doing it twice on the same turn won't allow you to control more than one turn in a row. Per player, that being said. So yeah multiplayer if you can manage it that seems fun. Seems like a good way to make enemies too....
Yeah you're right you'd only get one turn from any one player. Still, imagine Emrakuling everyone for a whole round of the table! if that's not control, nothing is.
just don't play the deck again for a while after you do it
You do put in a good case for Yeva, but flavour wise I love the flip walkers, and Nissa is such good value. I'm pretty sold.
Aluren, Vernal Equinox, Vedalken Orrery, and Winding Canyons (er, not that I've spent a lot of time figuring out how to make green work at instant speed or anything) are all options for turbocharging green. If you do commit to a low-cc ETB deck, Aluren especially can be a powerhouse -- you'll make far better use of it than your opponents can, assuming you can keep up with the card draw.
God I love aluren, and I wish I could afford it. I think I have a spare Vedalken Orrery, and wasn't aware that Vernal Equinox existed, so thanks!
You said that you were looking for cheap ETB creatures in green, and that probably means you'll have some inbuilt elf synergy whether you want it or not. I'd recommend Wirewood Symbiote as a means to reuse elves and Priest of Titania as a low-cost, high-ceiling mana dork.
I'm not specifically aiming for elves, my wife has that covered with a fairly ridiculous deck tribal deck - but it is hard to avoid in mono green - it's where the value lies. At present I have set aside elvish visionary, farhaven elf, wirewood symbiote, and I guess I should add priests of titania. Even with just her and Nissa on field she generates mana for parity, and anything more is gravy.
Draw will be super important. Soul of the Harvest/Bad Soul of the Harvest, and Zendikar Resurgent make all your creatures a cantripper. Regal Force is a beast and can be tutored by Fierce Empath. There are a few other natural cheap green cantrippers, including Wall of Blossoms and Carven Caryatid. Masked Admirers is just out of Aluren range, but can perform important duties cleaning up after a wrath effect.
I will be running Kamahl, fist of Krosa - the further I look at the card, the more I see how good he is: neither of his abilities tap to activate, which is just disgusting with the amount of mana green can generate.
Temur Sabertooth is a great card, but I'm not sure how many tutors you're planning on running (green has a ton of great ones, so long as you don't mind laying out the cash). Kitty is the best option, but you can back him up with things like Stampeding Wildebeests (and its clones), Cloudstone Curio, Blood Clock, or Conjurer's Closet. Panharmonicon is obviously bonkers if you commit to the ETB theme and it will be easier to weave into a deck that operates at sorcery speed. Do note that the Closet and Panharmonicon don't work with "on cast" triggers, only "enters the battlefield" triggers.
I'm not planning on running tutors. I don't have any green ones, and I prefer not to run them regardless. I like to play for synergy, running cards on the presumption that my decks are built such that I don't need specific cards to generate an advantageous boardstate. I will probably run the sabertooth and panharmonicon, possibly the closet, we will see how we go.
I can't afford Gaea's Cradle - no surprises there. I'll definitely pick up Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, it's too good not to. I do have Voyaging Satyr here, and I'll try to pick up Selvala, heart of the wilds. Probably won't worry too much about mana dorks, there's not much of a curve between the start of the game and hitting Nissa anyway.
The Gilt-Leaf Archdruid I'm torn with - I kind of want to run it, as it generates some draw anyway, but that second ability is unfriend material, which begs the question of whether it's worth it or not.
I'm unsure as to whether Kamahl, fist of Krosa warrants a place - as tempted as I am to try land animation, it's hugely risky.
Actually, that's the secret with Kamahl. His ability says "target land", not "target land you control". So, if your opponent plays a Wrath, you can just dump all your green mana into cheap land destruction. (This isn't even the most evil thing you can do with Kamahl, but it is the most evil thing you can do in monogreen.)
His other ability, the Overrun, is best seen in token decks, but it's gravy here.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Actually, that's the secret with Kamahl. His ability says "target land", not "target land you control". So, if your opponent plays a Wrath, you can just dump all your green mana into cheap land destruction. (This isn't even the most evil thing you can do with Kamahl, but it is the most evil thing you can do in monogreen.)
His other ability, the Overrun, is best seen in token decks, but it's gravy here.
Oh yeah, I did notice that. It is kind of an implied threat, and if it ends in land destruction, all you can say is "well, you did it to yourself". I really like that.
The overrun ability, I mean damn, he doesn't even tap to use it. With enough mana (which shouldn't be a problem) my guys could become monsters.
For an enters-the-battlefield control deck, I don't see much of that. Is that still what you are going for?
I kinda am, yeah. I do still have a Panharmonicon to add, and I'm wondering if there is too much reliance on witness effects. There are a lot of them. I still have a Temur Sabertooth to track down, and otherwise lots to flesh out. Happy to take suggestions.
The overrun ability, I mean damn, he doesn't even tap to use it. With enough mana (which shouldn't be a problem) my guys could become monsters.
Yep. Kamahl and Earthcraft is a common (non-infinite) wincon in token decks. But again, you're not playing tokens, so it's not as useful here.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I do like the stomphowler, but I would not consider it over reclamation sage or acidic slime. Reclamation sage can be easily tutored by woodland bellower, which is arguably one of the very strongest cards in your deck.
Consider the chain where you topdeck a fierce empath, but need to blow up someone's artifact/enchantment. In that case, you find woodland bellower which finds reclamation sage leaving you 9 power on board and a very very dead artifact or enchantment.
My only caution is not to get discouraged when playing this deck at first. Mono green control does not play like other decks do, and this is a variant of its own at that. You have to think 2 or 3 cards into it to get full value and eventually win. As you get better at it, you'll see the nutty interactions you get and then you can take down an entire battlefield with a "jank" deck.
My only caution is not to get discouraged when playing this deck at first. Mono green control does not play like other decks do, and this is a variant of its own at that. You have to think 2 or 3 cards into it to get full value and eventually win. As you get better at it, you'll see the nutty interactions you get and then you can take down an entire battlefield with a "jank" deck.
Oh I totally get that. I'm not necessarily in it for the win, I'm in it for the fun. I have a Zedruu deck that does bonkers stuff, but it doesn't always win. It doesn't mean it's any less fun to play.
So pretty much, what the title says. I've been looking at building mono green for a while, and I really like Nissa, Vastwood Seer as a versatile general with a low CMC, built in ramp and some protection.
I don't really want to go straight for fatties - it's been done. I will probably add a small element of this to my deck as a backup plan, as I have a spare Pathbreaker Ibex, but I'm more interested in off the beaten track. I really enjoyed the theme of this deck, but I probably won't go quite as heavy control. Partially because I don't have a lot of the older cards that make this deck hum along.
I had toyed with the animate land idea, and I know this can be SUPER risky; splendid reclamation, asceticism and Eternal witness effects could help there. Another (probably really nasty) idea I had was to go with things like Gilt-leaf Archdruid, which I have kicking around in my folder, along with Sakiko, mother of summer Sasaya, Orochi ascendant. I can see Sakiko having a place in generating some big mana, Sasaya maybe not. It could be hard to flip. I'm open to suggestions for what to do with all that mana as well.
What interesting ideas can you guys suggest to me? I would tend to prefer using interesting 'off the beaten track' cards and strategies if they are feasible, but I'm open to suggestions.
Long story short, sakiko, mother of summer and sasaya, orochi ascendant have decks, but they are their own decks and would play very differently from something like nissa.
Control is a fine route to play, but in this case, I would run nissa for one primary reason: Her +1 after she flips, which is admittedly stupid easy. I like running the old hard to find green cards, but you certainly don't need to. This deck could quite easily be made out of almost only modern legal cards and still be very very good.
I would do enters the battlefield control, such as reclamation sage, uktabi orangutan, acidic slime, etc. or even consider activated ability control, which green tends to have some pretty good ones at times. There are even some excellent cards which can go with both strategies, such as tireless tracker (enters the battlefield landfall trigger and activated ability of the clue tokens therein) or architect of the untamed. Why do I suggest such and interesting combination? Because then you can run panharmonicon and rings of brighthearth for extra value even if the only other non land permanent you have is your general, they are still good. You can even get effectively more triggers out of them by running creatures green already would consider, like temur sabertooth. With all these utility guys, then your pathbreaker ibex gets to be pretty respectable as an alternative win condition. Mind you, I would still run some either spell/activated ability based artifact/enchantment removal or flier hate, just because torpor orb/hushwing gryff bites when your only answer is reclamation sage.
If you run a few creatures that enter and draw you cards or do things along those lines, then when you get a doubler/reuser, then you're set. Since you're running tons of creatures, garruk, caller of beasts becomes pretty good as he reads +1, reveal up to 5 control spells and put them in your hand, of course you can also consider other planeswalkers, though I might only consider freyalise, llanowar's fury because she is awfully good.
The best part of such a strategy is that it's mostly utility creatures which answer problems, which let you fly under the radar and lets someone else become a big target. The bad part of such a strategy is that there are precious few "good stuff" cards you can add because wrath effects are going to happen, so graveyard recursion becomes stupid important. Panharmonicon has a giant 'blow me up now" sign attached to it as far as I know! Thankfully, there are many excellent cards that run wild with that strategy already and they are all, as I said, modern legal. Even an old favorite of mine reprinted in tenth edition, abundance.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Yeah, I guess as much as I want to go in a different direction, sometimes it isn't a great idea. Sasaya's essence must be ridiculously hard to flip and requires several other cards to enable. Which is not necessary for big mana in mono green (Karametra's Acolyte).
As far as what I've got fleshed out so far, there's a fair amount of recursion (Eternal Witness, Greenwarden of Murasa, etc etc), a spare Nissa, Vital Force, and I would love to fit one of my favourite cards of all time in, Wild Pair. It should be doable.
I like the Panharmonicon idea, mono green seems a good place for it.
As far as disruption goes I do have the industry standard Krosan Grip and similar so I'm not too worried about being stalled out.
I've actually been thinking about modifying it myself to be more along the lines that weltkrieg mentioned, a kind of creature-based control strategy (my irl playgroup doesn't seem to like constant mists and friends, and the deck has trouble surviving without that kind of protection). My only concern has been that Yeva, Nature's Herald might be the better choice for a deck like that, and I kind of want to stick with Nissa, Vastwood Seer. That said, there are a lot of cool options down that route, and there's a pretty active Yeva thread in the decklist forum that might be worth checking out if you haven't already. And Nissa does bring an element of card-draw to the table that Yeva, Nature's Herald doesn't, so there's definitely an argument for her.
anyway, just a thought re: the general choice. glad to see someone else considering mono green control
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
Anyways, I can stand by aslidiksoraksi's comments about yeva's decklist. Yeva is much better if you are trying for flash, which is why I suggested something akin to a mono green etb: the control spell. However, a few fogs that your playgroup doesn't like? Well, you can bend to their will or remind them that you are a mono green control deck. Do they prefer the fog or a hard lockdown such as I described in aslidiksoraksi's thread? I have much experience playing both. Most would prefer to see a fog deck, actually!
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Regarding general, I do have a copy of Yeva, Nature's Herald, I guess I just don't feel it with her as much as with Nissa, Vastwood Seer. Yeva is more than welcome in the 99 as are a couple of other green legends I have kicking about (Kamahl, Fist of Krosa, Molimo, Maro Sorcerer, Hua Tuo, Honored Physician), but I just don't feel any particular lust to build around her - despite how good I know she could be. So, with that in mind, does that change the suggestion to build etb-control?
As much as I like the idea of an enchantress/control build, I'm certainly better equipped to build fog style. A lot of the lockdown cards in the linked thread I'd have to order, or dig through crates to find.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
That sort of is what it's starting to look like: a low CMC toolbox deck. It could be fun.
I'm unsure as to whether Kamahl, fist of Krosa warrants a place - as tempted as I am to try land animation, it's hugely risky. That being said, with enough protection and land recursion it could work - I have a copy of Gilt-Leaf Archdruid around if there are any friends I don't want to speak to afterwards. Either way, any big mana lying around I can funnel into his overrun for an enormous alpha strike as a win con.
I'll try and post a list of some of the more definitive cards I would like to consider for a deck later on today - It'd be interesting to hear some feedback.
I'm interested in this idea with a kind of creature-based control deck more oriented around activated/ETB abilities though, that sounds good. just make sure to have some wrath protection of course. Kamahl, fist of Krosa can actually serve as a kind of anti-wrath rattlesnake, which is an additional reason to try him out.
also, not to state the obvious, but don't forget genesis, as well as maybe some of the eldrazi Titans. Would be a great game where you can play Temur Sabertooth and Emrakul, the Promised End in loop (and with a good chunk of mana, you could even drop her more than once in a turn!)
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
I don't think that would double up the way you're thinking. Sure, you could sabertooth the promised end back to hand repeatedly, but doing it twice on the same turn won't allow you to control more than one turn in a row. Per player, that being said. So yeah multiplayer if you can manage it that seems fun. Seems like a good way to make enemies too....
I will make one quick pitch for Yeva, Nature's Herald as the chief on an ETB-focused MGC deck, although I recognize that you are pretty firmly in favor of Nissa, and that's fine. The pitch: most green ETB control effects are spot removal of some sort (Acidic Slime, Woodfall Primus, Reclamation Sage, etc) and those effects are many times more effective at instant speed than at sorcery speed. It lets you make sure that you're spending them on the most immediate danger or interrupt a combo in progress. Yeva doesn't have the inbuilt card advantage of Nissa, but she does open up a lot of lines of play for green that it traditionally doesn't have. And it makes a lot of jank like Invasive Species and Timbermare into real cards!
That having been said, there are ways to simulate her effect and she does have a warping effect on deck construction. Aluren, Vernal Equinox, Vedalken Orrery, and Winding Canyons (er, not that I've spent a lot of time figuring out how to make green work at instant speed or anything) are all options for turbocharging green. If you do commit to a low-cc ETB deck, Aluren especially can be a powerhouse -- you'll make far better use of it than your opponents can, assuming you can keep up with the card draw.
So! On to what you are actually looking for. ETB creatures in green are most often abused in green with "bounce and recast" rather than the U/W blink version of ETB, so I'm assuming that you're not going to care about the distinction between an "enters the battlefield" clause and a "when you cast ~ from your hand" clause.
You said that you were looking for cheap ETB creatures in green, and that probably means you'll have some inbuilt elf synergy whether you want it or not. I'd recommend Wirewood Symbiote as a means to reuse elves and Priest of Titania as a low-cost, high-ceiling mana dork.
ETB Elves 3cc or less (in no particular order): Reclamation Sage, Rishkar, Peema Renegade, Elvish Visionary/Multani's Acolyte, Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, Elvish Harbinger, Essence Warden, Farhaven Elf/Wood Elves/Yavimaya Granger, Fierce Empath, Viridian Shaman/Viridian Corrupter, Lys Alana Bowmaster, Riftsweeper, Caller of the Claw, Wirewood Hivemaster, Wirewood Savage. Plus a few others like Civic Wayfinder that I omitted for lower power, and things like Nettle Sentinel that are useful if you go full elf-ball with Heritage Druid and Birchlore Rangers (but I have a feeling that's not the direction you want to take this deck).
Draw will be super important. Soul of the Harvest/Bad Soul of the Harvest, and Zendikar Resurgent make all your creatures a cantripper. Regal Force is a beast and can be tutored by Fierce Empath. There are a few other natural cheap green cantrippers, including Wall of Blossoms and Carven Caryatid. Masked Admirers is just out of Aluren range, but can perform important duties cleaning up after a wrath effect.
Speaking of which, wraths will be a nightmare for you unless you include Kamahl, Fist of Krosa. He's a one card win condition and board protector, and I recommend him in every green deck that relies on creatures.
Temur Sabertooth is a great card, but I'm not sure how many tutors you're planning on running (green has a ton of great ones, so long as you don't mind laying out the cash). Kitty is the best option, but you can back him up with things like Stampeding Wildebeests (and its clones), Cloudstone Curio, Blood Clock, or Conjurer's Closet. Panharmonicon is obviously bonkers if you commit to the ETB theme and it will be easier to weave into a deck that operates at sorcery speed. Do note that the Closet and Panharmonicon don't work with "on cast" triggers, only "enters the battlefield" triggers.
Big draw usually requires big mana. I don't know your budget, but you're playing creatures so I should at least mention Gaea's Cradle. If that is too expensive (and it really is..) then Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx can do a very good imitation for 1/20th the cost. If you decide to do land-based acceleration, then the Cradle/Nykthos can be backed up with things like Deserted Temple, Tempt with Discovery, and Crop Rotation, and there's a variety of creatures like Voyaging Satyr and Krosan Restorer that untap any land. If you want to stick with creature based, the aforementioned Priest of Titania and Selvala, Explorer Returned can generate huge returns, along with Karametra's Acolyte and any of the endless variety of one mana dorks. Most of them happen to be elves (and druids, for your Gilt-Leaf Archdruid).
Er, I'm afraid this post has turned a bit into a ramble. I hope there are at least a few useful bits in it!
Yeah you're right you'd only get one turn from any one player. Still, imagine Emrakuling everyone for a whole round of the table! if that's not control, nothing is.
just don't play the deck again for a while after you do it
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
You do put in a good case for Yeva, but flavour wise I love the flip walkers, and Nissa is such good value. I'm pretty sold.
God I love aluren, and I wish I could afford it. I think I have a spare Vedalken Orrery, and wasn't aware that Vernal Equinox existed, so thanks!
I'm not specifically aiming for elves, my wife has that covered with a fairly ridiculous deck tribal deck - but it is hard to avoid in mono green - it's where the value lies. At present I have set aside elvish visionary, farhaven elf, wirewood symbiote, and I guess I should add priests of titania. Even with just her and Nissa on field she generates mana for parity, and anything more is gravy.
Soul of the Harvest I have, and I probably wouldn't consider primordial unless I add some recursion to battlefield, which seems tough in mono green. Zendikar Resurgent is definitely in. I think I have Masked Admirers in here, it's good value, and as Aluren is out of my price range, it won't matter. I do want a Regal force in - great for Nylea, god of the Hunt and Karametra's Acolyte - both of which are present here.
I will be running Kamahl, fist of Krosa - the further I look at the card, the more I see how good he is: neither of his abilities tap to activate, which is just disgusting with the amount of mana green can generate.
I'm not planning on running tutors. I don't have any green ones, and I prefer not to run them regardless. I like to play for synergy, running cards on the presumption that my decks are built such that I don't need specific cards to generate an advantageous boardstate. I will probably run the sabertooth and panharmonicon, possibly the closet, we will see how we go.
I can't afford Gaea's Cradle - no surprises there. I'll definitely pick up Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, it's too good not to. I do have Voyaging Satyr here, and I'll try to pick up Selvala, heart of the wilds. Probably won't worry too much about mana dorks, there's not much of a curve between the start of the game and hitting Nissa anyway.
The Gilt-Leaf Archdruid I'm torn with - I kind of want to run it, as it generates some draw anyway, but that second ability is unfriend material, which begs the question of whether it's worth it or not.
Thanks for the input, most helpful!
Actually, that's the secret with Kamahl. His ability says "target land", not "target land you control". So, if your opponent plays a Wrath, you can just dump all your green mana into cheap land destruction. (This isn't even the most evil thing you can do with Kamahl, but it is the most evil thing you can do in monogreen.)
His other ability, the Overrun, is best seen in token decks, but it's gravy here.
On phasing:
Oh yeah, I did notice that. It is kind of an implied threat, and if it ends in land destruction, all you can say is "well, you did it to yourself". I really like that.
The overrun ability, I mean damn, he doesn't even tap to use it. With enough mana (which shouldn't be a problem) my guys could become monsters.
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Priests of Titania
1 Eternal Witness
1 Greenwarden of Murasa
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Gilt-leaf Archdruid
1 Wood Elves
1 Pathbreaker Ibex
1 Terastodon
1 Karametra's Acolyte
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Nylea, God of the Hunt
1 Voyaging Satyr
1 Acidic Slime
1 Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
1 Wolfir Silverheart
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Krosan Grip
1 Vitalize
1 Creeping Renaissance
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Seasons Past
1 Wild Pair
1 Asceticism
1 Nissa's Pilgrimage
1 Animist's Awakening
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Nissa, Vital Force
Off the top of my head there are the integral pieces I've actually collected thus far. Feel free to suggest further synergy, critiques, feedbacks etc.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
I kinda am, yeah. I do still have a Panharmonicon to add, and I'm wondering if there is too much reliance on witness effects. There are a lot of them. I still have a Temur Sabertooth to track down, and otherwise lots to flesh out. Happy to take suggestions.
Yep. Kamahl and Earthcraft is a common (non-infinite) wincon in token decks. But again, you're not playing tokens, so it's not as useful here.
On phasing:
Also, if you are still going for the "advantage over time" variant afforded by temur sabertooth (and possibly also stampeding wildebeests and friends), a little enter the battlefield card draw such as wall of blossoms, multani's acolyte, elvish visionary, or carven caryatid might give some options.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Consider the chain where you topdeck a fierce empath, but need to blow up someone's artifact/enchantment. In that case, you find woodland bellower which finds reclamation sage leaving you 9 power on board and a very very dead artifact or enchantment.
Consider the possibility where you need a chain of creatures into a win condition? With that same fierce empath you just go fetch a woodland bellower which can fetch invasive species which then returns the fierce empath which then finds pathbreaker ibex or kamahl, fist of krosa.
Also, deadwood treefolk is good recursion, too.
If you have the wild pair or the panharmonicon here, consider just how nuts it really gets.... I think you're going to like playing this deck!
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Oh I totally get that. I'm not necessarily in it for the win, I'm in it for the fun. I have a Zedruu deck that does bonkers stuff, but it doesn't always win. It doesn't mean it's any less fun to play.