Hello there, I'm getting back into the format, and really enjoy playing reanimation and stax/prison strategies. What generals are typically viewed as the best for these two archetypes? Could you maybe provide links to the best lists? This would primarily be for multiplayer, but sometimes 1v1 as well.
The best reanimator deck depends on what you mean by reanimator.
Karador is my favourite for playing things like Fleshbag Marauder and Spore Frog every turn.
If you want to reanimate big things, the general tends to matter less. I've seen The Mimeoplasm, since you get the tutors, the reanimation cards, and powerful targets like Jin Gitaxias, Core Augur and Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger. Mimeoplasm acts as an extra reeanimation spell in these decks.
However, Mimeoplasm lacks white, which gives you Iona, Shield of Emeria and Ashen Rider.
Honestly the best reanimator commander is any 5 color legendary. The commander becomes irrelevant and having all 5 colors gives you the best resources and reanimation targets.
Honestly the best reanimator commander is any 5 color legendary. The commander becomes irrelevant and having all 5 colors gives you the best resources and reanimation targets.
This is what I thought as well. I have been working on a Scion of the Ur-Dragon deck, but I'm torn between a reanimation strategy and keeping with the dragon tribal theme of the deck. I started with pure dragon reanimation, but then cut some of the crappier dragons to add non-dragon targets/threats. I'm still not too happy with it, but I feel it's better suited as a reanimation/value deck.
This is what I thought as well. I have been working on a Scion of the Ur-Dragon deck, but I'm torn between a reanimation strategy and keeping with the dragon tribal theme of the deck. I started with pure dragon reanimation, but then cut some of the crappier dragons to add non-dragon targets/threats. I'm still not too happy with it, but I feel it's better suited as a reanimation/value deck.
Yea so keep in mind that dragons aren't typically that great of reanimation targets. They're not bad but they're just not among Jin-gitaxias, core augur or iona, shield of emeria etc. Also note that when I say best reanimation deck I'm saying the deck that can get that turn 3 Jin on a typical hand. So that might not be what you're looking for.
Personally, I went with a 5 color reanimation deck for vintage EDH based around the praetors which Garuntees you reanimate a wincon by turn 3 at the latest if it goes uninterrupted (and assuming you know how to pilot it). Although for Scion, I'd prefer to stick to dragons tribal and just do the crazy shenanigans that Scion does on its own.
Let me know if you want my list? Its good, really good, and I've played literally hundred of games with it, tweaking over the years, so its fined tuned machine. It is geared more towards dueling, but still a beating in multiplayer.
Let me know if you want my list? Its good, really good, and I've played literally hundred of games with it, tweaking over the years, so its fined tuned machine. It is geared more towards dueling, but still a beating in multiplayer.
Derevi, Empyrial Tactician & Glissa, the Traitor are likely the best dedicated Stax commanders. Which one you use is largely dependant on if you prefer Smokestack or Stasis .
There are many other Commanders that can be effective though. I am fond of Sen Triplets , and am currently in the process of reworking a Stax deck for them that just was not smooth enough on the first build.
Chainer, Dementia Master & Karador, Ghost Cheiftain are among the best options for dedicated reanimation. You can look at the deck in my signature for a midrange attrition Karador list that uses both Stax and reanimation strategies, but is not really dedicated to either (this makes it slightly weaker, but vastly more resilient to hate). The deck has not been played in a while though, so may be slightly out of date.
I am actually putting together a Chainer list now, and expect to be posting a preliminary deck list for comment some time this week.
I was under the impression that Derevi isn't considered to be quite top tier when it comes to Stax these days (though still certainly very strong) - in particular, it got hit hard by the shift to Vancouver mulligan as it was very dependent on getting specific pieces to get the lock in place. Teferi, Temporal Archmage and Brago, King Eternal are excellent options for "lock" type stax, while Mardu builds with either Alesha, Who Smiles at Death or Queen Marchesa can perform well as you get access to a lot of disruptive pieces in red and white, black's card draw and tutors and a general which can provide resources to get round the parity of your effects. I've also seen some pretty interesting Nath of the Gilt-Leaf stax lists, combining resource denial with hand disruption.
It has quite a high land count of 36, becuase you end up playing quite a few land destruction decks in dueling, and its always just easy to lose to a bad starting mull, if you don't have consistently have 3 lands in the early game.
Quite often you go into a Necropotence, which is a nonbo with discard, so after a few turns you quite often end up using Zurs ability to get an Oblivion Ring / Detention Sphere or Banishing Light to remove the Necro. But by that stage you are so setup that you are too far ahead for other to catch up.
The Stony Silence and Null Rod seem a little counter intuitive with the 7 artifacts in the deck, but I've found that its just such a beating for a lot of decks.
I little "trick" I use is to use the Azorius Chancery / Dimir Aqueduct / Orzhov Basilica on second turn to discard to hand size a big fatty if you got one, to set up the graveyard.
Certainly he costs more to activate than chainer but I would argue his superior body, resiliency, lifeloss/scy ability and access to blue makes him a contender. It does suck that you can't loop though. His power comes from being able to reanimate at instant speed while having access to blue counters. You get to leave counter mana open and reanimate a creature when there is nothing worth countering. You also get to do stuff like reanimate Jin-Git at the end of your opponents turn.
His first ability is also very powerful. If you can successfully lock down the board it's a slow but potential plan B if you have a decent Zombie generator in play.
The problem I have with Mineo is that he's essentially just an overcosted reanimate spell. His cost/value ratio is poor. He himself doesn't provide you with the CA or the filtering TSG does
Chainer is arguably better than TSG but Imo suffers from not being blue.
Edit: Also The Scarab God doesn't suffer from a problem that both Mimeo and Chainer suffers from. That problem being if you simply deal with the commander you deal with the entire threat. Sure you can kill TSG, but his reanimated dudes are still going to be a problem.
imo that god is inefficient at reanimating compared to other commanders.
Played against a The Scarab God mill + reanimation deck over the weekend. The difference compared to Mimi is that The Scarab God doesn't accumulate commander tax very easily, always costing 5 cmc.
He never. Goes. Away. If Derevi has taught us anything, avoiding commander tax is a powerful effect. This deck I played against just lapped up all the removal thrown at The Scarab God, and just kept on casting him again.
The 4/4 limitation means nothing when you're resurrecting Sheoldred, Whispering One, Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, Lazav, Dimir Mastermind (these all were resurrected in the same turn from The Scarab God's ability after self-milling these into GY, it was brutal). Not to mention resurrecting other goodies from opponent's graveyards. This dude is reanimator Jesus IMO.
Let me know if you want my list? Its good, really good, and I've played literally hundred of games with it, tweaking over the years, so its fined tuned machine. It is geared more towards dueling, but still a beating in multiplayer.
Let me know if you want my list? Its good, really good, and I've played literally hundred of games with it, tweaking over the years, so its fined tuned machine. It is geared more towards dueling, but still a beating in multiplayer.
Ya man, I'm down. Let's see it
Can I see too? I'm a zur player myself and always looking for new directions to take him.
Thanks so much in advance!
The best dedicated stax/prison deck is Derevi, Empyrial Tactician. You play all the winter orb-like cards, and untap your mana anyway.
The best reanimator deck depends on what you mean by reanimator.
Karador is my favourite for playing things like Fleshbag Marauder and Spore Frog every turn.
If you want to reanimate big things, the general tends to matter less. I've seen The Mimeoplasm, since you get the tutors, the reanimation cards, and powerful targets like Jin Gitaxias, Core Augur and Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger. Mimeoplasm acts as an extra reeanimation spell in these decks.
However, Mimeoplasm lacks white, which gives you Iona, Shield of Emeria and Ashen Rider.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
This is what I thought as well. I have been working on a Scion of the Ur-Dragon deck, but I'm torn between a reanimation strategy and keeping with the dragon tribal theme of the deck. I started with pure dragon reanimation, but then cut some of the crappier dragons to add non-dragon targets/threats. I'm still not too happy with it, but I feel it's better suited as a reanimation/value deck.
Yea so keep in mind that dragons aren't typically that great of reanimation targets. They're not bad but they're just not among Jin-gitaxias, core augur or iona, shield of emeria etc. Also note that when I say best reanimation deck I'm saying the deck that can get that turn 3 Jin on a typical hand. So that might not be what you're looking for.
Personally, I went with a 5 color reanimation deck for vintage EDH based around the praetors which Garuntees you reanimate a wincon by turn 3 at the latest if it goes uninterrupted (and assuming you know how to pilot it). Although for Scion, I'd prefer to stick to dragons tribal and just do the crazy shenanigans that Scion does on its own.
Zur is amazing because he can get Animate Dead, Necromancy, Dance of the Dead.
Let me know if you want my list? Its good, really good, and I've played literally hundred of games with it, tweaking over the years, so its fined tuned machine. It is geared more towards dueling, but still a beating in multiplayer.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
There are many other Commanders that can be effective though. I am fond of Sen Triplets , and am currently in the process of reworking a Stax deck for them that just was not smooth enough on the first build.
Chainer, Dementia Master & Karador, Ghost Cheiftain are among the best options for dedicated reanimation. You can look at the deck in my signature for a midrange attrition Karador list that uses both Stax and reanimation strategies, but is not really dedicated to either (this makes it slightly weaker, but vastly more resilient to hate). The deck has not been played in a while though, so may be slightly out of date.
I am actually putting together a Chainer list now, and expect to be posting a preliminary deck list for comment some time this week.
A Dying Wish
To Rise Again
Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
Quite often you go into a Necropotence, which is a nonbo with discard, so after a few turns you quite often end up using Zurs ability to get an Oblivion Ring / Detention Sphere or Banishing Light to remove the Necro. But by that stage you are so setup that you are too far ahead for other to catch up.
The Stony Silence and Null Rod seem a little counter intuitive with the 7 artifacts in the deck, but I've found that its just such a beating for a lot of decks.
I little "trick" I use is to use the Azorius Chancery / Dimir Aqueduct / Orzhov Basilica on second turn to discard to hand size a big fatty if you got one, to set up the graveyard.
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Sol Ring
1 Imperial Seal
1 Underground River
1 Thoughtseize
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Mana Crypt
1 Chrome Mox
1 City of Brass
1 Dance of the Dead
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Flooded Strand
1 Force of Will
1 Command Tower
1 Necromancy
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Scrubland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Watery Grave
1 Intuition
1 Mind Twist
1 Frantic Search
1 Counterspell
1 Mental Misstep
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Mystic Gate
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Polluted Delta
1 Nevermore
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Stony Silence
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Caves of Koilos
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Marsh Flats
1 Pact of Negation
1 Detention Sphere
1 Mana Confluence
1 Underground Sea
1 Strip Mine
1 Swan Song
1 Spellskite
1 Arcane Denial
1 Mox Diamond
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Gilded Drake
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Sun Titan
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Mother of Runes
1 Mana Drain
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Necropotence
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Buried Alive
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Fetid Heath
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Sunken Hollow
1 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1 Brain Maggot
1 Arid Mesa
1 Banishing Light
1 Animate Dead
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Tundra
1 Reanimate
1 Mana Vault
1 Entomb
1 Null Rod
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Duress
1 Godless Shrine
1 Dark Ritual
1 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Negate
1 Grasp of Fate
1 Exquisite Archangel
1 Brainstorm
1 Forbid
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Vanishing
1 Oath of Jace
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
To add a stax spin on it you just reanimate creatures with Stax abilities. Jin-Gitaxias, Void Winnower, Magus of the Abyss etc.
Tbh I don't understand why your confused Elfric. Is it because he makes a 4/4 token copy? Perhaps you don't consider it to be authentic reanimation?
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Certainly he costs more to activate than chainer but I would argue his superior body, resiliency, lifeloss/scy ability and access to blue makes him a contender. It does suck that you can't loop though. His power comes from being able to reanimate at instant speed while having access to blue counters. You get to leave counter mana open and reanimate a creature when there is nothing worth countering. You also get to do stuff like reanimate Jin-Git at the end of your opponents turn.
His first ability is also very powerful. If you can successfully lock down the board it's a slow but potential plan B if you have a decent Zombie generator in play.
The problem I have with Mineo is that he's essentially just an overcosted reanimate spell. His cost/value ratio is poor. He himself doesn't provide you with the CA or the filtering TSG does
Chainer is arguably better than TSG but Imo suffers from not being blue.
Edit: Also The Scarab God doesn't suffer from a problem that both Mimeo and Chainer suffers from. That problem being if you simply deal with the commander you deal with the entire threat. Sure you can kill TSG, but his reanimated dudes are still going to be a problem.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Played against a The Scarab God mill + reanimation deck over the weekend. The difference compared to Mimi is that The Scarab God doesn't accumulate commander tax very easily, always costing 5 cmc.
He never. Goes. Away. If Derevi has taught us anything, avoiding commander tax is a powerful effect. This deck I played against just lapped up all the removal thrown at The Scarab God, and just kept on casting him again.
The 4/4 limitation means nothing when you're resurrecting Sheoldred, Whispering One, Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, Lazav, Dimir Mastermind (these all were resurrected in the same turn from The Scarab God's ability after self-milling these into GY, it was brutal). Not to mention resurrecting other goodies from opponent's graveyards. This dude is reanimator Jesus IMO.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Can I see too? I'm a zur player myself and always looking for new directions to take him.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)