Breya, Etherium Shaper is a very good general. Her ability to be part of a combo, as well as her ability to give any creature -4/-4, is something that I've encountered more and more.
The thing is I find my decks that are centric on having the commander on the battlefield, that have 4 or lower toughness, has me in all sorts of problems playing against Breya.
I find myself either trying to race to get value of these commanders, before she gets into play, or just playing a longer game, hoping to get protection and removal. Sometimes I'm just hoping there will be enough going on in play that Breya has more important opponents to target.
Now I'm not complaining, I'm just saying Breya is a stayer, and she changes the dynamics a bit for some of my decks.
Have many other people played against Breya and found their decks are surprisingly (or not) locked out by Breyas -4/-4 ability?
Thus far I had more issues with her comboing out stuff and ignore my general all together. General-killing is plausible in most of the decks so I expect my general to die one way or another. The Breya deck I know tends to focus on going infinite, and use other spells to deal with enemy generals.
Thus far I had more issues with her comboing out stuff and ignore my general all together. General-killing is plausible in most of the decks so I expect my general to die one way or another. The Breya deck I know tends to focus on going infinite, and use other spells to deal with enemy generals.
This, 100%. Every game against Breya I've played has been combo, sometimes not even casting Breya until the go off. I have two Breya decks as part of my toolbox and they switch between solitare-combo and stax, neither of which use Breya to keep people off generals as a go-to plan.
But, YMMV
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Not too many of my decks get locked out by Breya's ability, though it does slow down my Mayael deck and can keep me from generating cards with Lyzolda. Aside from those two, most of my decks do not rely on their generals too much.
However, I tend to be the one playing Breya, and my build is not too threatening: tribal thopters. I can confirm that Breya's ability to keep people off of some generals is pretty useful, helps keep people in check while I assemble the thopter army.
Imprisoned in the moon,Darksteel Mutation, Word of Seizing, Pithing Needle, Asceticism, and for black...kill it till the cows come home? Use any number of protection from white creatures? Grave Pact I guess would do you good.
She's strong, but never unstoppable. Since there are single card answers to O.G. Emrakul, O.G. Ayacyn, and Iona, I feel confident that there is always an answer out there...just not as easily found in Standard:) .
I don't have many generals Breya is incapable of killing, but as others have said, killing a general is not usually what Breya's going to be up to.
I suspect my only general that would specifically get hated off by Breya (which could get killed by a single activation of Breya's ability) is Thada Adel.
I think, if you look at a "fair" Breya deck, versus other fair decks, the -4/-4 is very strong. Even if you don't pull the trigger, you can use her as a political tool (if you attack me, I kill your creature!)
However, Breya is not a fair commander, and we should compare her to other "unfair" decks.
In this scenario, a lot of times, the -4/-4 is either not worth it or slows the Breya deck down as well. If you don't have infinite mana and infinite artifacts, you have to economize (is that the right word?) your resources.
This sounds about right.
In the realm of fair commander, I've seen this phenomenon occasionally against Olivia Voldaren; board gets wiped, Olivia player has seven mana, nobody wants to play out anything that can be stolen. If everybody works their best to develop their board, they could overwhelm the Olivia player, but you don't want to be the only person who puts out a creature in this situation, and players with non-creature answers in hand benefit most by sitting back and letting other players waste resources.
The only deck of mine that really folds to her -4/-4 ability is Selvala, provided she gets online early enough to utterly trash my setup prevening me from landing the big guns.
But as many people stated, she's usually not played in a "fair" way. Even a typical Artifact-Control based build with her is very likely going to end up comboing at one point or another, so it's the combo you need to prepare for in the end.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Well, the most common deck I've been playing recently has been akroma, angel of fury, and the deck naturally runs shattering spree, vandalblast, pillage and shattering pulse. While I'm sure a tuned Breya deck can sneak out from under my Akroma due to fast mana-rocks and lucky combo draws, I like my odds of survival.
For the majority of my decks although I tend to run cheap (low-cmc) utility commanders, that would all die to Breya. Out of the near 20 decks I currently maintain, only Akroma, Gwendlyn Di Corci, Dragonlord Kolaghan, and Rakdos the Defiler would survive one activation from her ability.
IMO she could have had the ability to do 4-damage to a player, and -3/-3 to a creature, and still been pretty busted. Aside from her obvious combo potential, the fact that she can -4/-4 creatures at instant speed for little investment makes her obnoxious for a large # of decks/players to deal with. Even worse in more casual meta's where Breya herself can shut down newer players decks so easily.
In addition, literally every color can remove or counter her repeatedly. Blue has the counters, white and green have a bunch of Disenchant variants, red has a bunch of Shatter variants and some direct damage spells that do at least 4 damage, black has a bunch of -X/-X effects where X is at least 4 and a few cards like Murder. Green also gets Beast Within, just so we're all aware.
That said, mostly I see her more as a sac outlet for Eggs-type shenanigans.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
To all be effective against her, but really that's just artifact hate in general. My good friend plays his Breya deck often and has a few infinite combos in it but it's much more "typical" artifact shenanigans. It's just such a hard deck to stab into because he has so many lines of defense/recursion and then so many ways to hurt you. Definitely one of the most troubling decks I battle.
Tactically speaking, I try to bait him to sacrifice artifacts to Breya to kill off something I don't really care about or can get back with reanimation that he doesnt know about.
Other than that I guess all I can say is just learn the Breya player's deck, and what specific cards will cause you trouble and try to save answers for those things specifically. Breya is hard to stop since she's pretty much always available to the owner, but if you stop the cards she combos with she loses a lot of potential.
I love saying "What are you looking at me for? This card does nothing." Stony Silence, Titania's Song, and Linvala, Keeper of Silence also do nothing, while Angel of Jubilation keeps her from sacrificing. You can also take your toughness to 5 with the help of anthems, thus requiring she sac 4 artifacts.
Viridian Revel is another fun answer. "Yeah, are you sure you want to give me a free Divination?"
TBH, the biggest problem with Breya is her tendency toward Eggs-type decks. (Yeah, you'll find most of these precon Commanders can go from "fair" to "combolicious" easily.) You can also do tokens, in a very oval way. (Sacrificing myr, thopters, servos, and golems, along with your gold/treasure/land mine/clue tokens, but also using Cathars' Crusade to boost tokens.) So, if anything, Witchbane Orb or similar is required to be truly "Breya-proof". Of course, Null Rod and friends still work.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Isn't this question another way of asking whether or not you built your deck the right way to handle what you'll face?
Is my deck ready for Blood Moon? (my child deck certainly isn't), Sweepers?, Control Magic?
From the previous posts, breya is so obviously good that when she's only mowing down your commander it isn't close to the worst that you could be facing. Clearly commander set generals tend towards being better than not.
All of the answers posted seem workable for most players. Even a lightning greaves (which is essential in all general or creature centric decks) will help you out.
Breya is a great general, but not as good as Derevi. Derevi is Broken. The tap/untap upon entering is not broken. The Tap/untap upon combat damage to a player is not broken. The 1WUG: put into play is not broken.
Breya is a great general, but not as good as Derevi. Derevi is Broken. The tap/untap upon entering is not broken. The Tap/untap upon combat damage to a player is not broken. The 1WUG: put into play is not broken.
What breaks Derevi is all of that together.
The real problem with Derevi (and with many of the precon commanders) is that they were designed to be both "casual" and "competitive". You can build them a casual way, or you can combo out with Breya or Zedruu/lock your opponent out with Derevi/do both with Ghave or Marath.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
The thing is I find my decks that are centric on having the commander on the battlefield, that have 4 or lower toughness, has me in all sorts of problems playing against Breya.
I find myself either trying to race to get value of these commanders, before she gets into play, or just playing a longer game, hoping to get protection and removal. Sometimes I'm just hoping there will be enough going on in play that Breya has more important opponents to target.
Now I'm not complaining, I'm just saying Breya is a stayer, and she changes the dynamics a bit for some of my decks.
Have many other people played against Breya and found their decks are surprisingly (or not) locked out by Breyas -4/-4 ability?
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Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
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Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
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Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
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Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
This, 100%. Every game against Breya I've played has been combo, sometimes not even casting Breya until the go off. I have two Breya decks as part of my toolbox and they switch between solitare-combo and stax, neither of which use Breya to keep people off generals as a go-to plan.
But, YMMV
URGRiku, Sorcerer SupremeGRU
Who needs permanents anyways?
WUBRGDeckbuilder's ToolboxGRBUW
Warning:Contents include 34 decks and growing
However, I tend to be the one playing Breya, and my build is not too threatening: tribal thopters. I can confirm that Breya's ability to keep people off of some generals is pretty useful, helps keep people in check while I assemble the thopter army.
She's strong, but never unstoppable. Since there are single card answers to O.G. Emrakul, O.G. Ayacyn, and Iona, I feel confident that there is always an answer out there...just not as easily found in Standard:) .
I suspect my only general that would specifically get hated off by Breya (which could get killed by a single activation of Breya's ability) is Thada Adel.
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I think I'm ok.
This sounds about right.
In the realm of fair commander, I've seen this phenomenon occasionally against Olivia Voldaren; board gets wiped, Olivia player has seven mana, nobody wants to play out anything that can be stolen. If everybody works their best to develop their board, they could overwhelm the Olivia player, but you don't want to be the only person who puts out a creature in this situation, and players with non-creature answers in hand benefit most by sitting back and letting other players waste resources.
But as many people stated, she's usually not played in a "fair" way. Even a typical Artifact-Control based build with her is very likely going to end up comboing at one point or another, so it's the combo you need to prepare for in the end.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
For the majority of my decks although I tend to run cheap (low-cmc) utility commanders, that would all die to Breya. Out of the near 20 decks I currently maintain, only Akroma, Gwendlyn Di Corci, Dragonlord Kolaghan, and Rakdos the Defiler would survive one activation from her ability.
IMO she could have had the ability to do 4-damage to a player, and -3/-3 to a creature, and still been pretty busted. Aside from her obvious combo potential, the fact that she can -4/-4 creatures at instant speed for little investment makes her obnoxious for a large # of decks/players to deal with. Even worse in more casual meta's where Breya herself can shut down newer players decks so easily.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
Colorless: Null Rod, Cursed Totem, Damping Matrix, Pithing Needle
White: Angel of Jubilation, Arrest, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Stony Silence
Blue: Imprisoned in the Moon
Green: Asceticism, Sylvan Safekeeper and friends, Song of the Dryads, or just make her really reconsider giving you free Divinations
Multicolor: Dovin Baan
In addition, literally every color can remove or counter her repeatedly. Blue has the counters, white and green have a bunch of Disenchant variants, red has a bunch of Shatter variants and some direct damage spells that do at least 4 damage, black has a bunch of -X/-X effects where X is at least 4 and a few cards like Murder. Green also gets Beast Within, just so we're all aware.
That said, mostly I see her more as a sac outlet for Eggs-type shenanigans.
On phasing:
To all be effective against her, but really that's just artifact hate in general. My good friend plays his Breya deck often and has a few infinite combos in it but it's much more "typical" artifact shenanigans. It's just such a hard deck to stab into because he has so many lines of defense/recursion and then so many ways to hurt you. Definitely one of the most troubling decks I battle.
Tactically speaking, I try to bait him to sacrifice artifacts to Breya to kill off something I don't really care about or can get back with reanimation that he doesnt know about.
Other than that I guess all I can say is just learn the Breya player's deck, and what specific cards will cause you trouble and try to save answers for those things specifically. Breya is hard to stop since she's pretty much always available to the owner, but if you stop the cards she combos with she loses a lot of potential.
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Commander: Allies & Adversaries
I love saying "What are you looking at me for? This card does nothing." Stony Silence, Titania's Song, and Linvala, Keeper of Silence also do nothing, while Angel of Jubilation keeps her from sacrificing. You can also take your toughness to 5 with the help of anthems, thus requiring she sac 4 artifacts.
Viridian Revel is another fun answer. "Yeah, are you sure you want to give me a free Divination?"
But most of my commanders are either fast, big, or have some sort of answer to the -4/-4 (Animar, Soul of Elements, Teysa, Envoy of Ghosts, Lavinia of the Tenth, Narset, Enlightened Master, Bruna, Light of Alabaster, Sygg, River Guide, Sigarda, Host of Herons, Uril, the Miststalker, Eight-and-a-Half Tails, and Thrun, the Last Troll all come to mind.) If I'm in GW, it doesn't matter, I'm going to Aura Shards her until she's too expensive. In any color, you should have some way to answer her. (Again, RUN! REMOVAL!)
TBH, the biggest problem with Breya is her tendency toward Eggs-type decks. (Yeah, you'll find most of these precon Commanders can go from "fair" to "combolicious" easily.) You can also do tokens, in a very oval way. (Sacrificing myr, thopters, servos, and golems, along with your gold/treasure/land mine/clue tokens, but also using Cathars' Crusade to boost tokens.) So, if anything, Witchbane Orb or similar is required to be truly "Breya-proof". Of course, Null Rod and friends still work.
On phasing:
Isn't this question another way of asking whether or not you built your deck the right way to handle what you'll face?
Is my deck ready for Blood Moon? (my child deck certainly isn't), Sweepers?, Control Magic?
From the previous posts, breya is so obviously good that when she's only mowing down your commander it isn't close to the worst that you could be facing. Clearly commander set generals tend towards being better than not.
All of the answers posted seem workable for most players. Even a lightning greaves (which is essential in all general or creature centric decks) will help you out.
What breaks Derevi is all of that together.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
The real problem with Derevi (and with many of the precon commanders) is that they were designed to be both "casual" and "competitive". You can build them a casual way, or you can combo out with Breya or Zedruu/lock your opponent out with Derevi/do both with Ghave or Marath.
On phasing: