Rsther than do blue braids, I've sort of settled on running a big blue edh with Jalira, Master Polymorphist as commander. With the profusion of control and polymorph options, I can bleed off an opponent's big guns and either pound them or polymorph the critters to increase my board presence. Between Leviathans and Krakens, blue has some big hammers to polymorph into.
In addition, bounce, some counter, blue Braids, cloning, and combat tricks/spot removal round out what I'd do. (Well, all that and card draw...it is blue after all). Mechanically, there's plenty to love on my end. But, is that likely to draw too much ire from other tablemates who seethe at me stealing their stuff all game? Hence leading to the subject line of wondering if she's a kick to the crotch, or else totally legit as a commander.
Jalira is a pretty slow general, and especially your proposed strategy isn't going to be particularly fast. If people consider her to be a kick below the belt, then I'd have my doubts about their skill level, honestly. The random nature of her ability and the fact that it needs multiple moving parts to really work on your opponent's stuff should ensure it fits safely in what constitutes fun EDH games.
I for one would love to play against such a deck and I'd be curious to see how it'd work.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Jalira is a pretty slow general, and especially your proposed strategy isn't going to be particularly fast. If people consider her to be a kick below the belt, then I'd have my doubts about their skill level, honestly. The random nature of her ability and the fact that it needs multiple moving parts to really work on your opponent's stuff should ensure it fits safely in what constitutes fun EDH games.
I for one would love to play against such a deck and I'd be curious to see how it'd work.
Yeah, I'm kinda seeing it as a slower grindy, attrition deck that keeps things in check until someone goes for the throat so that I can use blue combat shenanigans to jiu-jitsu them. Cards like polymorphist's Jest, Illusionist's Gambit and Reins of Power are types of cards that I'm thinking there for combat tricks.
I run an EDH deck all about control magic type shenanigans, using opponents' own creatures to win the game. It is easy to demolish early on, but late game it is obscenely powerful, so there is plenty of time to stop it, plus key pieces are usually fragile.
If you want something more reactive and holds a less threatening board presence, I recommend Tymaret, Murder King and Act of Treason type cards. The 2013 Prosh commander deck makes a great base for it, as well as everything important you can get on a budget. Tymaret starts faster and can be utilized as a sac outlet on the battlefield AS WELL AS in the graveyard.
One big thing to note, it is real easy to run shroud and hexproof due to practically every preconstructed EDH deck coming with greaves or boots (colorless goes in any EDH deck!) so your deck can be stopped, especially with a well timed back to nature.
None of these cards I just mentioned are expensive so the people you are playing against can easily throw in a copy if they are really going to whine about how ridiculously superior your deck is to theirs.
She can't make legends. It fits flavor wise but seems like its a nerf to her power. I think she is totally fair and would love to play against that style of deck.
She has an activated ability that requires a tap, and you pay three mana and sac a creature. That makes her a lot slower than people think.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Oh yeah, she's slow to be sure. I guess I was getting more to messing with people's board states. Blow up too many of their all-powerful critters and it seems people get pissy. Blue has a particular vein of disruption that drives a lot of people bats*** crazy, because it's "too powerful". I wanted to make sure I wasn't violating the spirit of edh so I don't have to listen to a lot of idealistic blah blah in a match.
Honestly, even three uses of her in a match (with mine or theirs as sac objects) could be a difference maker. And she seems like she'll be fun without exposing me to as much risk as blue braids. Even if I use her totally defensively like a Master Transmuter to help me dodge removal of my own board state, she could make a difference.
She seems totally fine. She's slow, she can't nuke other people's stuff, you have limited ways to control her ability, her ability can't get legends (so no cheating out a turn 5 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, and she's easily disrupted or prone to bad draws.
Now, if part of the plan here is to be spamming Ray of Command and abusing Overtaker, taking all their stuff with Blatant Thievery and Expropriate, tricking people with Reins of Power, etc...maybe? Stealing tends to make enemies. I don't think you'd get lectured, but you will get pummeled. That being said, Blatant Thievery is just a vicious card but everything else here requires a ton of mana, a ton of set-up, or both, so I can't imagine people rage quitting.
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People will always find a way to complain. It's like Goldblum's line from Jurassic Park.
Remember you are playing Mono-Blue and way too many people have irrational fear and prejudice against blue, Damn Blue-ists.
But, Jelira should be pretty safe unless you overload on other blue cards people hate (stealing and excessive counters, you know, the usual).
Well, excessive counters aren't my style, but stealing is a really effective way to stop momentum shifts. But bouncing and stall tactics like Time Stop can temper that out to a more balanced deck. A lot of my other decks ramp and go aggro, and this gives a change of pace to be a more control-ish, patient deck. But it will definitely be true blue. Cards like a bouncing Gilded Drake can and will happen if I can pull it off.
She can't make legends. It fits flavor wise but seems like its a nerf to her power. I think she is totally fair and would love to play against that style of deck.
Definitely a nerf to her power. I run her in my Thada Adel theft deck, and every time I activate Jalira and flip over Keiga I cry a little inside.
That said, sacrificing Keiga to Jalira is great fun.
I run her in a Mono-U Artifact deck helmed by Padeem. I use Thopter Spy Network, Efficient Construction, and all of the Junk Diver-esque cards. She could easily be the Commander because you can easily get back anything you sac and produces tons of tokens too so its a lot of fun. I think that is maybe another good take on Jalira if you want to still do that thing but have back up plans as well.
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It's an opinion I express often here, but - if you're worried your friends will weep and moan about your plays, you have toxic friends. They think they're the same speed as you, hence why they play cards with you, but they want you to ease off the throttle so they can pull ahead? Something ain't right.
Play your cards - never, ever turn down a line of play because it's "too much". You earned it, it's there, they weren't ready, it's the rules of nature!
She can't make legends. It fits flavor wise but seems like its a nerf to her power. I think she is totally fair and would love to play against that style of deck.
Definitely a nerf to her power. I run her in my Thada Adel theft deck, and every time I activate Jalira and flip over Keiga I cry a little inside.
That said, sacrificing Keiga to Jalira is great fun.
There are some advantages to Jalira not hitting legends though - it means you can run some utility creatures like Venser, Shaper Savant, Baral, Chief of Compliance or indeed Thada Adel, Acquisitor without running the risk of wasting a polymorph on them. I can't deny there are times when I'd love to be able to flip into a Jin-Gitaxis or similar, but it's not all downside.
As for Jalira's power level, I'd be surprised if she's too much. You might want to leave out the Blightsteel Colossus and if you're really worried Pathrazer of Ulamog and It that Betrays but other than those, while the fatties available are reasonable large, they just hit people without doing the kind of stuff that some players dislike.
If you have a few bomb non-legendary creatures and token generators to get to them. Blightsteel, Darksteel, non titan Eldrazis, etc, from sacing tokens can end games.
If you have a few bomb non-legendary creatures and token generators to get to them. Blightsteel, Darksteel, non titan Eldrazis, etc, from sacing tokens can end games.
Stealing/copying your opponents stuff is a fun route to take with Jalira, and one I've done in the past (though my deck is now more control centric). However, I'd lean away from creatures like Sower of Temptation and Beguiler of Wills. I've found that the best way to build her is to ensure that every time you use her ability, you hit a fatty - so no non-legendary creatures that aren't worth a polymorph, especially if they're dependent on board state like Sower (polymorphing into him on an empty board is just slightly annoying). Fortunately, blue has access to plenty of enchantment and instant/sorcery methods of gaining control of your opponents stuff, and a decent amount of ways of getting fodder for Jalira that aren't creatures in your library.
Right but I was just putting up sources that steal, I agree with Polymorph strat from the Zendikar standard. That deck was hilarious, too bad you can't link into an Iona or Progenitus. You can get Blightsteel of an Eldrazi with Annihilator, which can end games.
I run Jalira in a pretty laid-back meta, and nobody there complains. I would say that she is about average on the casual/competitive spectrum as far as my decks go, but I'm also not running cards like Blightsteel Colossus. The deck is really fun to play even if I only get to use Jalira two or three times in a game. She's totally legit as a commander, and she's no more a "kick in the crotch" than any other "build-around-me" commander.
Jalira definitely won't draw hate for power level. Some people don't like it when you take their cards (I've heard ugly stories about people's reactions to Gonti, lord of luxury) but that's really the only thing that I'd worry about. and to be honest that's hardly a thing to worry about. As long as you give them back their cards when all is said and done, no one has anything to complain about
In addition, bounce, some counter, blue Braids, cloning, and combat tricks/spot removal round out what I'd do. (Well, all that and card draw...it is blue after all). Mechanically, there's plenty to love on my end. But, is that likely to draw too much ire from other tablemates who seethe at me stealing their stuff all game? Hence leading to the subject line of wondering if she's a kick to the crotch, or else totally legit as a commander.
Very interested in your opinions. Thanks.
I for one would love to play against such a deck and I'd be curious to see how it'd work.
Yeah, I'm kinda seeing it as a slower grindy, attrition deck that keeps things in check until someone goes for the throat so that I can use blue combat shenanigans to jiu-jitsu them. Cards like polymorphist's Jest, Illusionist's Gambit and Reins of Power are types of cards that I'm thinking there for combat tricks.
If you want something more reactive and holds a less threatening board presence, I recommend Tymaret, Murder King and Act of Treason type cards. The 2013 Prosh commander deck makes a great base for it, as well as everything important you can get on a budget. Tymaret starts faster and can be utilized as a sac outlet on the battlefield AS WELL AS in the graveyard.
One big thing to note, it is real easy to run shroud and hexproof due to practically every preconstructed EDH deck coming with greaves or boots (colorless goes in any EDH deck!) so your deck can be stopped, especially with a well timed back to nature.
None of these cards I just mentioned are expensive so the people you are playing against can easily throw in a copy if they are really going to whine about how ridiculously superior your deck is to theirs.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
On phasing:
Honestly, even three uses of her in a match (with mine or theirs as sac objects) could be a difference maker. And she seems like she'll be fun without exposing me to as much risk as blue braids. Even if I use her totally defensively like a Master Transmuter to help me dodge removal of my own board state, she could make a difference.
Now, if part of the plan here is to be spamming Ray of Command and abusing Overtaker, taking all their stuff with Blatant Thievery and Expropriate, tricking people with Reins of Power, etc...maybe? Stealing tends to make enemies. I don't think you'd get lectured, but you will get pummeled. That being said, Blatant Thievery is just a vicious card but everything else here requires a ton of mana, a ton of set-up, or both, so I can't imagine people rage quitting.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
Remember you are playing Mono-Blue and way too many people have irrational fear and prejudice against blue, Damn Blue-ists.
But, Jelira should be pretty safe unless you overload on other blue cards people hate (stealing and excessive counters, you know, the usual).
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Who needs permanents anyways?
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Well, excessive counters aren't my style, but stealing is a really effective way to stop momentum shifts. But bouncing and stall tactics like Time Stop can temper that out to a more balanced deck. A lot of my other decks ramp and go aggro, and this gives a change of pace to be a more control-ish, patient deck. But it will definitely be true blue. Cards like a bouncing Gilded Drake can and will happen if I can pull it off.
That said, sacrificing Keiga to Jalira is great fun.
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Play your cards - never, ever turn down a line of play because it's "too much". You earned it, it's there, they weren't ready, it's the rules of nature!
There are some advantages to Jalira not hitting legends though - it means you can run some utility creatures like Venser, Shaper Savant, Baral, Chief of Compliance or indeed Thada Adel, Acquisitor without running the risk of wasting a polymorph on them. I can't deny there are times when I'd love to be able to flip into a Jin-Gitaxis or similar, but it's not all downside.
As for Jalira's power level, I'd be surprised if she's too much. You might want to leave out the Blightsteel Colossus and if you're really worried Pathrazer of Ulamog and It that Betrays but other than those, while the fatties available are reasonable large, they just hit people without doing the kind of stuff that some players dislike.
I like your idea about stealing creatures and sac-ing them instead, Empress Galina, Beguiler of Wills, Vedalken Shackles, Helm of Possession with tokens and Sower of Temptation are all great options for that.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Stealing/copying your opponents stuff is a fun route to take with Jalira, and one I've done in the past (though my deck is now more control centric). However, I'd lean away from creatures like Sower of Temptation and Beguiler of Wills. I've found that the best way to build her is to ensure that every time you use her ability, you hit a fatty - so no non-legendary creatures that aren't worth a polymorph, especially if they're dependent on board state like Sower (polymorphing into him on an empty board is just slightly annoying). Fortunately, blue has access to plenty of enchantment and instant/sorcery methods of gaining control of your opponents stuff, and a decent amount of ways of getting fodder for Jalira that aren't creatures in your library.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash