As the title says, take-an-extra-turn cards in commander are starting to get me down. Stranglehold is the only card I know of and getting it is neither consistent nor a guarantee in itself since most blue decks run bounce to get rid of it when it really matters. To some extent this question is also asking for an answer to bounce and counters since they allow blue players to ignore most obstacles to their strategy.
In particular I'm looking for ways for White, Black, and/or Green to deal with these. Blue obviously has a million answers to its own shenanigans, while red can try to copyspell and hope it doesn't get countered. Extra turn cards just seem too strong and come out too early (in commander) for any of those three colors to deal with.
The best answer I can think of is some nasty "at the beginning of each player's upkeep" effect in black, but even then you're likely to get hated by others for playing it and usually it doesn't hit them more than twice before getting bounced and never mattering again as they chain turns on and on. Seedborn Muse also seems good but is again a prime target even for the non-blue players and tends to be a win condition more than an answer.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern:
DredgeVine EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima Standard:
There isn't really a good option, because as you said blue deck can just counter or bounce away whatever you're doing and then begin their subgame of chaining extra turns.
Ugin's Nexus is pretty marginal. Imp's Mischief can let you steal their extra turn as long as it's target player.
You may want to consider some strong hate cards to deal with blue decks like Choke and Tsunami.
this kind of deck can be a problem if you play in a battlecruiser meta.
if mass land destruction and fast combo are not allowed then the best ramp and draw deck will win.
you can join the insane train by playing a deck on the same level or you will delute your deck with answers to one deck to lose grip against all other decks.
stunted growth and plow under can be options to disrupt one player but you see the point: a timewalk costs the same mana and you could have played one of those yourself.
I think it mostly just bothers me that there are no good answers for extra turns like there are for say, graveyard strategies or artifact strategies. A 1-drop Grafdigger's Cage or 2-drop Rest in Peace or even a Relic of Progenitus. Extra turns is a specific enough strategy that it seems like there should be similarly efficient answers, but I guess it's not much of a problem in standard or modern and so efficient answers aren't likely to be printed for the Commander crowd to use (counterspells aside).
My meta is rife with Expropriate and I hate it. In my case, I think I'd rather just run Ugin's Nexus and threaten to punish both that and Nev Disk.
At least in the case of Expropriate, I will almost always vote to give extra turns and then probably concede right after, just to make everyone else miserable and want the card to no longer get played here.
Time Walk decks need a lot of mana to continually resolve their 'walks, while also playing their win-con or other meaningful spells. You can crush them with simple stax. Most time walks are pretty expensive to cast, with the most commonly seen one(s) being time warp and temporal manipulation. 5-cmc can be a bit of a lofty goal for some decks.
That gives you ample time to screw with the opponent. Work some basic tax/hate into your deck, something like strip mine/wasteland, to static orb/winter orb. There are great inclusions depending on your colors - blue gives you arcane laboratory (effectively turning a time walk into explore), black gives you thoughtseize effects, red lets you copy the spell, etc.
While the opponent is building up to their time walks you can also just try to win from underneath them. I ran Jhoira in a time warp theme'ed deck, and most opponents just chose to race me to victory before I could start hard-casting everything. A dedicated time walk deck won't have much room for interaction past the basic's like cyclonic rift and a skeleton crew of answers.
Wait, not playing blue? Well seriously, sometimes a red deck can copy the spell, but generally your answer to the extra turns is to kill the player trying to cast them. Don't waste your time trying to cram "players cannot take extra turns" junk into your decks, as there isn't really an efficient way to do this
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EDH RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
Hive Mind will basically nullify extra turns that target a player.
Hive Mind doesn't care if the time magic has a target or not. (Although time magic that isn't an instant or sorcery, like Magistrate's Scepter or Sage of Hours, would get around it.) However, it doesn't really nullify the extra turns.
Given three players A, B, C, a Hive Mind in play, and A casts Temporal Manipulation:
B and C each get a Temporal Manipulation.
Before a TM resolves the turn order is ABCABC
C's TM resolves, making the turn order ACBCABC
B's TM resolves, making the turn order ABCBCABC
A's TM resolves, making the turn order AABCBCABC
The player who cast the time magic still gets two turns in a row. Sure, they've essentially lost their next turn, but that's kind of irrelevant if they're winning right now, or if they've got some time magic loop to keep getting an extra turn.
In particular I'm looking for ways for White, Black, and/or Green to deal with these. Blue obviously has a million answers to its own shenanigans, while red can try to copyspell and hope it doesn't get countered. Extra turn cards just seem too strong and come out too early (in commander) for any of those three colors to deal with.
The best answer I can think of is some nasty "at the beginning of each player's upkeep" effect in black, but even then you're likely to get hated by others for playing it and usually it doesn't hit them more than twice before getting bounced and never mattering again as they chain turns on and on. Seedborn Muse also seems good but is again a prime target even for the non-blue players and tends to be a win condition more than an answer.
- Rabid Wombat
Currently Playing:
Multiplayer EDH Lists (click italics for a link to the thread!)
[Primer] Lord of Tresserhorn - Don't Tell Me What I Can't Do[Primer] Roon of the Hidden Realm - Rhino Blink
5 Color Tribal Guide (Slivers, Atogs, Allies, Spirits)
Also Playing (most decklists can be found on my profile)
MarathGeistKamahlGrenzoBolasThassaGitrog
PiratesZurVial Smasher&ThrasiosYennettJhoira(cEDH)Strix(Pauper)
Legacy: Maverick
Modern:
Melira PodRIP 1/19/15GWHatebearsModern:
DredgeVine
EDH:
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Anima
Standard:
Ugin's Nexus is pretty marginal.
Imp's Mischief can let you steal their extra turn as long as it's target player.
You may want to consider some strong hate cards to deal with blue decks like Choke and Tsunami.
I think it mostly just bothers me that there are no good answers for extra turns like there are for say, graveyard strategies or artifact strategies. A 1-drop Grafdigger's Cage or 2-drop Rest in Peace or even a Relic of Progenitus. Extra turns is a specific enough strategy that it seems like there should be similarly efficient answers, but I guess it's not much of a problem in standard or modern and so efficient answers aren't likely to be printed for the Commander crowd to use (counterspells aside).
- Rabid Wombat
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Contamination, too, if you have a stream of creature to sacrifice.
Yidris is also a nasty extra-turn menace.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Kemba | Linvala | Talrand | Geth | Krenko | Zada | Patron of the Orochi | Medomai | Athreos | Gisela | Trostani | Nin | Silumgar | Kaervek | Jarad | Xenagos | Sydri | Narset | Roon | Zurgo | Ghave | Marath | Uril | Tasigur | Animar | Riku | Riku | Sek'Kuar | Cromat
My meta is rife with Expropriate and I hate it. In my case, I think I'd rather just run Ugin's Nexus and threaten to punish both that and Nev Disk.
At least in the case of Expropriate, I will almost always vote to give extra turns and then probably concede right after, just to make everyone else miserable and want the card to no longer get played here.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
Most of the extra turn cards are split into equal amounts of targeting a player or just saying "take an extra turn".
Expropriate does not target with the extra turn, so you can copy with Wild Ricochet, but you can't choose new targets.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
That gives you ample time to screw with the opponent. Work some basic tax/hate into your deck, something like strip mine/wasteland, to static orb/winter orb. There are great inclusions depending on your colors - blue gives you arcane laboratory (effectively turning a time walk into explore), black gives you thoughtseize effects, red lets you copy the spell, etc.
While the opponent is building up to their time walks you can also just try to win from underneath them. I ran Jhoira in a time warp theme'ed deck, and most opponents just chose to race me to victory before I could start hard-casting everything. A dedicated time walk deck won't have much room for interaction past the basic's like cyclonic rift and a skeleton crew of answers.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
Wait, not playing blue? Well seriously, sometimes a red deck can copy the spell, but generally your answer to the extra turns is to kill the player trying to cast them. Don't waste your time trying to cram "players cannot take extra turns" junk into your decks, as there isn't really an efficient way to do this
RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck
RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
Arena Standard
UUUU Tempo, since before it was cool
Various Wx decks running Fountain of Renewal and Day of Glory
Anything I can cram Chaos Wand in to
Given three players A, B, C, a Hive Mind in play, and A casts Temporal Manipulation:
B and C each get a Temporal Manipulation.
Before a TM resolves the turn order is ABCABC
C's TM resolves, making the turn order ACBCABC
B's TM resolves, making the turn order ABCBCABC
A's TM resolves, making the turn order AABCBCABC
The player who cast the time magic still gets two turns in a row. Sure, they've essentially lost their next turn, but that's kind of irrelevant if they're winning right now, or if they've got some time magic loop to keep getting an extra turn.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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