I'm wondering how people would feel about a 5 deck release which was previous mechanic focused and which the community would like to see expanded. Previous comments from various people seem to imply Kamigawa will not be a place we are likely to see a standard rotation set return to and yet I think soulshift, ninjitsu, and even bushido are mechanics which would make for an interesting commander deck but current card pools make them extremely underwhelming. Transmute and gravestorm are two others which would be nice to see featured.
That being said, is there something that you'd like to see heavily expanded for a specific deck design while bringing back a weaker mechanic? Or is there a tribe which had a neat feature (Rebels for me) which could use a commander focus product?
Gravestorm has ridiculous potential to be completely broken. The only existing Gravestorm card is just Extract for three times as much mana. But because of Gravestorm, even without any infinite combos, it's easy to make it more powerful than a kicked Sadistic Sacrament.
Partner is good. Experience counters were good, and I'd like to see that mechanic in enemy colors. I would love to see Commander products featuring with creatures and spells utilizing some of the Ravnica guild mechanics... new populate, or overload, or transmute, etc. A few new ninja would be great!
Partner should have been better. It should have given a bonus of some sort (draw 1 card at EOT, 1 colorless mana in first main phase, etc.) if your 2 commanders stretched across 4 colors. I thought that was the purpose of them doing 4 color commander decks.
Experience counters would be ok to revisit -- but only if some cards were created that let me interact negatively with my opponent's experience. Right now the only way to reign in out of control experience counters or emblems is restarting the game with Karn. We need better options for that before it gets expanded.
Gravestorm is too brutal to be redone. Right now I play Bitter Ordeal in my Zurgo Helmsmasher deck. With Zurgo on the field I hit a Jokulhaups and then exile all the land from my opponent's decks. Pretty much an instant win.
I've always been a fan of mechanics that solve the age-old Commander problem of "losing your commander due to him dying seven times".
- The "effect based off mana cost paid" mechanic of the first set was an interesting take on it that kept them relevant even when you're paying nine mana.
- "Commander is always available" was kind of hit and miss. Derevi was kind of a mistake, but I liked the design of Karador and Tasigur, where you could mitigate or ignore the commander tax under certain circumstances.
- "commander is really hard to kill" is also kind of hit or miss; Most gods except for Purphuros did a pretty good job of generating value you can rely on due to them not explicitly ending the game and also being kind of hard to get rid of. Cards like old Sigarda and Purphuros (even Akroma kind of fits into this category) are a little too game-endy and put huge pressure on the table to kill them even though it's quite difficult by the second or third time when everybody's exhausted their corner-case solution cards.
- There are also "commander emblem"-style commanders - the most obvious one being Oloro but there are also cards like Zegana that only needed to be cast once or twice in a game to serve their purpose, allowing you to build around the assumption that you always have those effects available to you.
Alright so this kind of turned into a rambly post but anyways my point being I really enjoy commanders that you can safely build your deck entirely around and not end up with a crippled deck unless your opponent employs some really narrow answers (darksteel mutation; vanishing). I always feel a little bad when I see a potential commander spoiled like gitrog monster; a five-mana commander that really wants to be built around as much as possible, that gets increasingly difficult to justify casting the more often he dies.
I would like to see more partners, but due to their combinatory nature there is a very limited number they can print before some unforeseen combination becomes busted. As such, I have my reservations here.
I would also like to see more gods, since I like how reliable they are as commanders. It sounds like there is a good chance of seeing more of those in Amonkhet.
Storm/Gravestorm would be a bad thing on any card that could directly win or create an insurmountable game state (Dragonstorm, Brain Freeze, etc.); preventative cards like Flusterstorm are fine, and I'd be okay with something similar like "Scry X, where X is two plus the number of spells cast this turn" or other effects that are relatively innocuous even with a huge number of spells cast in a turn. Even Mind's Desire is only bad because of how long it takes to resolve; it's reigned in by the fact that a deck that can build up a large storm count is going to, on average, have pretty lackluster individual spells.
I like that Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa has flanking, and would like to see new cards with Flanking, Regenerate, Protection, Phasing, and a number of other 'retired' keywords that are too confusing to keep rather than too overpowered.
I also wouldn't mind seeing Kamigawa spiritcraft return, but instead of always being spirits, have it be any spell that shares a creature type (i.e. Kinship - Whenever you cast a spell that shares a creature type with this creature, gain 2 life). Tallowisp is one of my all-time favorite creatures, and even though he's a bit on the strong side I could see some other cool cards that do something like Meletis Astronomer with a Kinship trigger rather than a Heroic trigger.
More than anything I would like to see Changeling come back as well as "Splice onto Instant" as MaRo had discussed it.
I really hope the next commander precon comes with...
- 1 New Partner Commander (Mono Colored or Ally Colored)
- 1 New Experience Commander (Mono Colored or Ally Colored)
- 1 New Planeswalker Commander (Mult-Colored)
They've done some cool stuff with the mechanics so far, so it'd be cool for them to actually use some more of that design space rather that look for too much more.
- 1 New Partner Commander (Mono Colored or Ally Colored)
- 1 New Experience Commander (Mono Colored or Ally Colored)
I really like both of these ideas. I think people had problems with Partners because they felt they were too weak - really, I think all of the four-color options were toned down because a lot of the power level comes from being able to play four colors. A mono-colored partner could be a little more pushed and would make building around the existing partners more fun. The focus could be on adding abilities more than just colors if they were mono. That said, they would still probably be pretty bad by themselves.
Experience counters would be a great way to make viable mono-colored commanders. Maybe they'd make existing XP counter commanders too good, though.
I was thinking about the room for partner today and remembered this topic.
Mono-colored/tri-colored partners: Our partner base would range from mono to five color decks. I think the former would be where we finally could get the enchantress effect (on a mono-green legend)!
Cards like old Sigarda and Purphuros (even Akroma kind of fits into this category) are a little too game-endy
Sigarda is "game-endy"? o.O
She's just a 5/5 beater. Sure, she's got evasion and protects herself, but she takes 5 turns to kill someone on her own.
Are you sure you're not talking about Bruna?
What I meant by that is, if you're at 16 commander damage (easily done with modest equipment) and already exhausted your sudden spoiling then yeah she'll end your game if you don't kill the player. For entry-level commander products I would consider designs that force other players to enter a "kill the player to deal with the commander" situation to be a failure of design.
To be clear I'm not saying she's strong, she's just an example of something that wouldn't fit in an entry-level commander product.
Cards like old Sigarda and Purphuros (even Akroma kind of fits into this category) are a little too game-endy
Sigarda is "game-endy"? o.O
She's just a 5/5 beater. Sure, she's got evasion and protects herself, but she takes 5 turns to kill someone on her own.
Are you sure you're not talking about Bruna?
What I meant by that is, if you're at 16 commander damage (easily done with modest equipment) and already exhausted your sudden spoiling then yeah she'll end your game if you don't kill the player. For entry-level commander products I would consider designs that force other players to enter a "kill the player to deal with the commander" situation to be a failure of design.
So... Sigarda is a threat if she's already hit you several times, and you can't produce flying/reach chump blockers, and you don't have any of dozens of means to get her off the board or not attacking you? You realize there are a lot of highly-played cards in this format that affect Sigarda without targeting her or forcing her controller to sacrifice her, right?
So... Sigarda is a threat if she's already hit you several times, and you can't produce flying/reach chump blockers, and you don't have any of dozens of means to get her off the board or not attacking you? You realize there are a lot of highly-played cards in this format that affect Sigarda without targeting her or forcing her controller to sacrifice her, right?
you seem to be ignoring the "entry level commander product" context and are applying your own metagame experience of her to the discussion. In fact you outright removed the last line in my post which explicitly stated I'm talking about the card not from a power perspective, but from a "how would a card like her fit into an entry-level commander product" line of thought.
So... Sigarda is a threat if she's already hit you several times, and you can't produce flying/reach chump blockers, and you don't have any of dozens of means to get her off the board or not attacking you? You realize there are a lot of highly-played cards in this format that affect Sigarda without targeting her or forcing her controller to sacrifice her, right?
you seem to be ignoring the "entry level commander product" context and are applying your own metagame experience of her to the discussion. In fact you outright removed the last line in my post which explicitly stated I'm talking about the card not from a power perspective, but from a "how would a card like her fit into an entry-level commander product" line of thought.
I removed the line because it wasn't relevant to my response.
It doesn't matter whether we're talking about tuned competitive decks or precons, Sigarda is still just a 5/5 beater. She still takes 5 turns to kill someone on her own, and she still has commonly-included answers.
In fact, I would say she's even worse in a precon, since they tend to be built more towards battlecruiser Magic, which encourages the inclusion of things like big dragons (which can block Sigarda) and sweepers. Spot removal and forced sacrifice, the things Sigarda is protecting herself from, are relatively limited inclusions.
I definitely want to revisit past commander set mechanics. Experience, Partner and PW commanders are all enjoyable, but I'd also like to see a return of things like Myriad, Lieutenant and maybe even some of the "hug" type effects - Join Forces was pretty bad, but I liked Tempting Offer and particularly the offerings from C14.
All of the commander gimmicks have been awesome. Mana cost-matters, experience, planeswalkers, and partners have all been fun to play with, and I believe there is a ton of design space left there.
If there was something that I would really want, is more options for 3 colored commanders. Some combos basically have one or two viable commanders (Mardu and Naya, I'm looking at you).
Experience and partner are the main two for me. As said above I think the partners have to be a bit weak in of themselves because you get two of them reliably. If I were thinking literally though I think that it is unlikely we will see partner again simply because of the amount of checks that I would hope RaD would do to make sure they don't combine in a totally broken way. A few more FRF style wedge commanders would also be awesome but unlikely.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern: RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
Really almost any mechanic that they'll never use again could be done in an interesting way. Even gravestorm could have a nonbroken iteration printed, just make it an effect that can never win the game, no matter how many times it repeats (example: each player discards a card for 1BB).
I'd like to see them revisit mechanics that can't be printed in standard legal sets, because most of them have plenty of design space left. It would be nice if they'd throw in a legend with partner or something without needing to make that a major theme.
Ninjitsu would be great. The Planechase 2012 seemed to work to great effect.
I'd like to see more Samurai since their amount was straight up disappointing. There were cards that could have made them great that could only be usable with changelings.
Which brings me to changelings. I think it would be fantastic to see a changeling style commander deck with ten or so lord type cards sprinkled in and a commander that was a multicolored better Mistform Ultimus. And no not Sliver_____. It can have some sliver cards but not a sliver commander. I have to draw the line somewhere.
A morph commander would be fantastic too. Onslaught was one of my favorite sets and it made me happy to see remnants of it in the Tarkir block. Culmulative Upkeep would Just Kidding! I'd love to see a constellation/bestow commander. A supertron with the only creature being the commander would be great...maybe "G/W Legandary Cleric Hexproof the first enchantment you cast each turn costs 1~2 less if it targets this. 1/1"
Speaking of a solo commander, I think it would be great to see an instant and sorcery only deck. It would be Epic, literally! It would run cards like Eternal Dominion(well maybe not that specific epic spell if the commander is the only creature) but a new commander that could be cast instead of the Epic spell (allowing for other nonepic spells to be cast until your next turn perhaps).
Honestly, I got to say out of the decks I don't run, my two favorite commander decks are Stalwart Unity (say what you will, but if you tweak a deck to have NO win condition and focus just on fun [it takes only a 4 card swap], it is probably the best preconstructed deck ever created in the history of MtG) and Karona False God.
So far my favourites have been partners(I really hope we see more of that), the offering and tempting offer cycles, and some of the new ways to interact with command tax(definitely not that bird though).
More gods is something on my fervent wishlist for Amonkhet, as I rather like the Theros gods... and I am somewhat of an 'ancient Egypt' geek. Indestructible artifacts that become creatures with devotion? (With 'devotion' not necessarily meaning color symbols on your permanents, could be counting any number of things in your usual game.)
Some previous mechanics I'd like to see again/in (another) legendary:
Devour: it's narrow, but the flavor of Jund is awesome, with big creatures eating small.
Extort: I have a soft spot for repeatedly and slowly leeching the game to my favour, heh.
Tribal, but I'm not holding my breath, heh.
Soulshift I liked as a mechanic but the cards were always so silly-overcosted for the most part.
There's probably more but those from the top of my head.
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X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
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That being said, is there something that you'd like to see heavily expanded for a specific deck design while bringing back a weaker mechanic? Or is there a tribe which had a neat feature (Rebels for me) which could use a commander focus product?
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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Personally I want them to relook at previous commander mechanics. Partner in particular should be expanded upon.
Experience counters would be ok to revisit -- but only if some cards were created that let me interact negatively with my opponent's experience. Right now the only way to reign in out of control experience counters or emblems is restarting the game with Karn. We need better options for that before it gets expanded.
Gravestorm is too brutal to be redone. Right now I play Bitter Ordeal in my Zurgo Helmsmasher deck. With Zurgo on the field I hit a Jokulhaups and then exile all the land from my opponent's decks. Pretty much an instant win.
- The "effect based off mana cost paid" mechanic of the first set was an interesting take on it that kept them relevant even when you're paying nine mana.
- "Commander is always available" was kind of hit and miss. Derevi was kind of a mistake, but I liked the design of Karador and Tasigur, where you could mitigate or ignore the commander tax under certain circumstances.
- "commander is really hard to kill" is also kind of hit or miss; Most gods except for Purphuros did a pretty good job of generating value you can rely on due to them not explicitly ending the game and also being kind of hard to get rid of. Cards like old Sigarda and Purphuros (even Akroma kind of fits into this category) are a little too game-endy and put huge pressure on the table to kill them even though it's quite difficult by the second or third time when everybody's exhausted their corner-case solution cards.
- There are also "commander emblem"-style commanders - the most obvious one being Oloro but there are also cards like Zegana that only needed to be cast once or twice in a game to serve their purpose, allowing you to build around the assumption that you always have those effects available to you.
Alright so this kind of turned into a rambly post but anyways my point being I really enjoy commanders that you can safely build your deck entirely around and not end up with a crippled deck unless your opponent employs some really narrow answers (darksteel mutation; vanishing). I always feel a little bad when I see a potential commander spoiled like gitrog monster; a five-mana commander that really wants to be built around as much as possible, that gets increasingly difficult to justify casting the more often he dies.
I would also like to see more gods, since I like how reliable they are as commanders. It sounds like there is a good chance of seeing more of those in Amonkhet.
Storm/Gravestorm would be a bad thing on any card that could directly win or create an insurmountable game state (Dragonstorm, Brain Freeze, etc.); preventative cards like Flusterstorm are fine, and I'd be okay with something similar like "Scry X, where X is two plus the number of spells cast this turn" or other effects that are relatively innocuous even with a huge number of spells cast in a turn. Even Mind's Desire is only bad because of how long it takes to resolve; it's reigned in by the fact that a deck that can build up a large storm count is going to, on average, have pretty lackluster individual spells.
They released Sakashima's Student and Silent-Blade Oni in a planechase set, so ninjitsu is clearly on the table.
I like that Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa has flanking, and would like to see new cards with Flanking, Regenerate, Protection, Phasing, and a number of other 'retired' keywords that are too confusing to keep rather than too overpowered.
I also wouldn't mind seeing Kamigawa spiritcraft return, but instead of always being spirits, have it be any spell that shares a creature type (i.e. Kinship - Whenever you cast a spell that shares a creature type with this creature, gain 2 life). Tallowisp is one of my all-time favorite creatures, and even though he's a bit on the strong side I could see some other cool cards that do something like Meletis Astronomer with a Kinship trigger rather than a Heroic trigger.
More than anything I would like to see Changeling come back as well as "Splice onto Instant" as MaRo had discussed it.
- Rabid Wombat
- 1 New Partner Commander (Mono Colored or Ally Colored)
- 1 New Experience Commander (Mono Colored or Ally Colored)
- 1 New Planeswalker Commander (Mult-Colored)
They've done some cool stuff with the mechanics so far, so it'd be cool for them to actually use some more of that design space rather that look for too much more.
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
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I really like both of these ideas. I think people had problems with Partners because they felt they were too weak - really, I think all of the four-color options were toned down because a lot of the power level comes from being able to play four colors. A mono-colored partner could be a little more pushed and would make building around the existing partners more fun. The focus could be on adding abilities more than just colors if they were mono. That said, they would still probably be pretty bad by themselves.
Experience counters would be a great way to make viable mono-colored commanders. Maybe they'd make existing XP counter commanders too good, though.
Draft my Peasant Cube.
Mono-colored/tri-colored partners: Our partner base would range from mono to five color decks. I think the former would be where we finally could get the enchantress effect (on a mono-green legend)!
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
She's just a 5/5 beater. Sure, she's got evasion and protects herself, but she takes 5 turns to kill someone on her own.
Are you sure you're not talking about Bruna?
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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What I meant by that is, if you're at 16 commander damage (easily done with modest equipment) and already exhausted your sudden spoiling then yeah she'll end your game if you don't kill the player. For entry-level commander products I would consider designs that force other players to enter a "kill the player to deal with the commander" situation to be a failure of design.
To be clear I'm not saying she's strong, she's just an example of something that wouldn't fit in an entry-level commander product.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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you seem to be ignoring the "entry level commander product" context and are applying your own metagame experience of her to the discussion. In fact you outright removed the last line in my post which explicitly stated I'm talking about the card not from a power perspective, but from a "how would a card like her fit into an entry-level commander product" line of thought.
It doesn't matter whether we're talking about tuned competitive decks or precons, Sigarda is still just a 5/5 beater. She still takes 5 turns to kill someone on her own, and she still has commonly-included answers.
In fact, I would say she's even worse in a precon, since they tend to be built more towards battlecruiser Magic, which encourages the inclusion of things like big dragons (which can block Sigarda) and sweepers. Spot removal and forced sacrifice, the things Sigarda is protecting herself from, are relatively limited inclusions.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
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If there was something that I would really want, is more options for 3 colored commanders. Some combos basically have one or two viable commanders (Mardu and Naya, I'm looking at you).
Actually, what I want more than anything is a 5c +1/+1 counter commander. Geeze, I just want to play Marchesa, the Black Rose, Hardened Scales, and Cathars' Crusade in the same deck. I mean, I have this deck with Sliver Queen, but it doesn't feel quite right...
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern:
RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
I'd like to see them revisit mechanics that can't be printed in standard legal sets, because most of them have plenty of design space left. It would be nice if they'd throw in a legend with partner or something without needing to make that a major theme.
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My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
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Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
I'd like to see more Samurai since their amount was straight up disappointing. There were cards that could have made them great that could only be usable with changelings.
Which brings me to changelings. I think it would be fantastic to see a changeling style commander deck with ten or so lord type cards sprinkled in and a commander that was a multicolored better Mistform Ultimus. And no not Sliver_____. It can have some sliver cards but not a sliver commander. I have to draw the line somewhere.
A morph commander would be fantastic too. Onslaught was one of my favorite sets and it made me happy to see remnants of it in the Tarkir block.
Culmulative Upkeep wouldJust Kidding! I'd love to see a constellation/bestow commander. A supertron with the only creature being the commander would be great...maybe "G/W Legandary Cleric Hexproof the first enchantment you cast each turn costs 1~2 less if it targets this. 1/1"Speaking of a solo commander, I think it would be great to see an instant and sorcery only deck. It would be Epic, literally! It would run cards like Eternal Dominion(well maybe not that specific epic spell if the commander is the only creature) but a new commander that could be cast instead of the Epic spell (allowing for other nonepic spells to be cast until your next turn perhaps).
Honestly, I got to say out of the decks I don't run, my two favorite commander decks are Stalwart Unity (say what you will, but if you tweak a deck to have NO win condition and focus just on fun [it takes only a 4 card swap], it is probably the best preconstructed deck ever created in the history of MtG) and Karona False God.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
But Ninjutsu was the better mechanic!
More gods is something on my fervent wishlist for Amonkhet, as I rather like the Theros gods... and I am somewhat of an 'ancient Egypt' geek. Indestructible artifacts that become creatures with devotion? (With 'devotion' not necessarily meaning color symbols on your permanents, could be counting any number of things in your usual game.)
Some previous mechanics I'd like to see again/in (another) legendary:
Devour: it's narrow, but the flavor of Jund is awesome, with big creatures eating small.
Extort: I have a soft spot for repeatedly and slowly leeching the game to my favour, heh.
Tribal, but I'm not holding my breath, heh.
Soulshift I liked as a mechanic but the cards were always so silly-overcosted for the most part.
There's probably more but those from the top of my head.