I was playing an Angus MacKenzie Flicker-Themed deck, against a Phage the Untouchable deck, and a Zedruu the Greathearted deck. Already, this is an absolute party of a match up. The Phage player manages to get their Commander out thanks to Command Beacon, but the Zedruu player steals it. Over the course of a few more turns, the Zedruu player actually donates Phage to me, and the Phage player ultimates Sorin Markov, taking over my turn. He sees that I have Conjurer's Closet in my hand, and casts it. He then proceeded to use it to flicker Phage.
... control... There's a special place in hell for people who play those.
Seriously?
The only decks I really hate losing to are chaos decks. No, I don't want to spend 15 minutes resolving Warp World only to follow it up with Thieves' Auction, so I'll just scoop, thanks.
I feel like I have fun losing when the games are super tight, and it could go either way; or I'm completely blasted out of the water by something unexpected.
Not in the sense of "Oh, I didn't plan for that meta." More in the sense of "Wait a minute, those cards do what together?"
Of course, if it's a string of losses, it's gonna be harder to find the fun.
I find it interesting that nobody has mentioned any infinite combos.
I think if I'm losing 20 or more life between untap steps, I'm probably frustrated, usually because if I'm being dealt that much damage, it's more like 30-40+ or 10 infect all at once. I would like at minimum, the chance to untap and attempt to defend myself from whatever surprise threat that was plopped on the board with haste. These kinds of threats push my deck building to places that are annoying to fair decks.
As long as the game was interesting. I don't mind an infinite combo as long as the deck pulling it wasn't doing nothing but tutor-tutor-iwin. Decks that don't do anything and then pull a Tooth and Nail out of their ass and win don't deserve it, decks that control the game and finish it through a combo do.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I prefer winning ;), but I don't mind losing in virtually every way (I am confident in knowing when it makes sense to concede versus most strategies, including elaborate combo, stax, MLD and control (not knowing when to concede I feel is a big reason many people dislike playing versus those decks)). This being said I prefer when decks or players stand a fighting chance versus each other (either similar power level or multiple players know how to evaluate threats and work together). I guess I dislike losing to players who team up on me when there are other threats they should focus on based on the current game state.
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Modern:UB Taking Turns Modern:URW Madcap Experiment Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
If a player always plays infinite combos and can't put anything else together in an evening, then that can be a frustrating night because it forces me to start alpha striking to survive and permanently derails why I put the decks in the first place, regardless of format.
Most frustrating loss was about twenty years ago. This dude had some infinite recycle loop that locks me while still forcing me to play. We go at it for about two hours after other people are out, all the while I'm asking him if he even has a win con and he won't tell me. He strings me along because I'm always close to overpowering him. He finally admits that no, there is no win con until I draw out. He was just literally trying to win by pissing me off enough to scoop. I almost swung on the dude, I was so pissed, and he was both amused and shocked that I didn't find it as funny as he did. To this day, he's the most worthless Magic player I've endured, though I never played with him again and I never sit for longer than a few turns of endless activity traps before I scoop.
A big part of why I rarely play in stores anymore because you never know what anti-social nuts will show up to take their life frustrations out on other people by dicking with them.
When I play Magic, especially Commander, "winning the game" is pretty low on the priority list, coming after practicing the deck, practicing good play, learning the opponent's deck, keeping good conversation, thinking about how to improve, making a mental note of foils I'm missing and plays that I was impressed by, etc., etc. - I barely notice that a victory or defeat has gone by and since I'm always having fun when I'm playing cards, I guess that means they were "fun defeats". That said, if I play against decks that are a little too Winter Orby and I wind up not playing Magic at all, that can knock me out of the groove and start to feel like a waste of time.
Basically what ThyLord said. I don't mind losing if I learn something new or interesting out of it. Or if the game itself is interesting (how many squirrels are there again?)
I don't particularly care losing when the guy plays his cards in stony silence and then gets upset waiting for me to scoop as I try to work out what blasted combo he's put together. Nor to the guy who constantly gloats about his deck, such as putting together an all foil deck, as if that alone is somehow the magic sauce that should automatically make me scoop. I don't generally play with foils so my decks tend to look a bit "ratty". I also have a preference for the old frames.
The inverse is true, winning against Stony Silence seems to set him or her off on some tirade about bad luck or whatever. And against Foil guy with my "crummy" non-foil deck. It doesn't make me feel bad, it's just a hassle.
I once spent a good twenty minutes with a guy as he showed me the ins and outs of his Elvish deck and how to improve my own deck against his as we sat there with our cards in turn 3 or 4. I was running Jester's Cap and was trying to tear his deck apart. I think we decided on a draw but we both walked away satisfied.
I'm not a fan of the "oops I win because I drew my combo". I really don't like games that invalidate anything I did throughout the game simply because they drew a card like Tooth and Nail.
I like games that go long and are highly interactive, and get political.
Only time I get peeved about losing if its some blatantly obvious lack of skill, threat assessment, or caring from other players. Handing others the win from dumb misplays (ie you did something really dumb, now they win because xxx) or damned 'join forces' cards irks me.
I would have to agree that knowing when your beat comes in handy, I will scoop, congrats the winner and carry on. Even if it was against MLD, Stax, or any 'disliked' archetypes. Its part of the game and they are beatable, just need to recognize when your all beat and when you can battle through.
I don't like fast games. I don't care how anyone wins as long as they do it after a game that is longer than what I am playing in Modern. The format was sold to me as hour long, highly political games, and I like them to last because I rarely get to play
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Project Booster Fun makes it less fun to open a booster.
I don't mind if I lose, so long as I got to take part in a game worth talking about.
Pretty much this. The key phrase, for me anyway, is "take part", which generally means I don't like playing against someone who locks down the board or combos out in the first few turns.
Honestly, as long as my deck is able to do it's job, I don't care how I lose.
Least favorite way is definitely against stax, control, and MLD decks. There's a special place in hell for people who play those.
So you don't like playing against decks that interact with your deck. Got it.
I don't mind playing against anything. Infect, stax, MLD, combo, voltron, whatever. I just like turns to go quickly. We scooped the other day 10 minutes into a turn 3 Selvala Parley / Paradox Engine combo that was eventually, excruciatingly, going to draw and cast an Akroma's Memorial and smoke all of us. Watching someone dick around for that long isn't fun when you've got a very finite number of hours you can play MTG in a given month.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Any game where people actually get to play the game is worthwhile, win or lose. The most frustrating losses, besides the ones already mentioned (stax/MLD grindfests) are the ones where the power level is completely unbalanced (someone bringing a highly tuned Karabor, Ghost Chieftain to what's otherwise a casual table or sudden and completely uninteractive blowouts. I recently lost a game where a Bruna player dropped Lightning Greaves and Bruna, Light of Alabaster, swung on me, and dropped Corrupted Conscience and Eldrazi Conscription from his hand. I know that one isn't technically uninteractive due to still being susceptible to instant speed removal, but it still sucked.
Funny for me is losing against something like Tooth and Nail tutoring something like Deadeye Navigator+Palinchron. I like that I need to focus in a game and make sure my opponent doesn't combo through.
Not funny is losing to creature based decks that attacks for the win. Thats just plain boring. If I wanted to die to creature damage I would play 8 player drafts. But the players in my playgroup rarely plays creature decks like that, so I'm fine I guess
Bad:
-Single haymaker wins, like killing a player with craterhoof from an otherwise non-threatening board of a few creatures
-"I don't care what you play" wins that just tutor out a combo
-Cards that abuse the format to win fast like serra ascendant targeting one player
-Sudden infinite combos that ignore the board state up until that point
It's important to me that the buildup of an edh game isn't just ignored. If someone doesn't care what the opponent is playing as long as it doesn't kill them or remove their combo, I don't want to play with them.
-Wins that come slowly after denying everyone the ability to play
-Cheating an annihilator eldrazi into play quickly denying people any chance to build up
-Taking a bunch of extra turns
No one likes to sit there wasting their time.
-Slivers
-pure voltron
These wins are extremely dull to me because all they do is ask "Do you have the specific type of removal that answers my extremely linear, all in strategy?". If you do have the removal, that player is essentially out of the game and often grumpy for the remaining 30+ minutes of gameplay, and if you don't, they just win.
Good:
-Wins that use the existing board state
-Wins that take multiple turns to set up
-Wins that let every other player also execute their gameplan
Examples of good wins:
-Making a token army, then next turn playing a spell that makes the token army go exponential
-Playing strong midrange creatures, then making them hard to remove through a not-your-commander card, then swinging for the win over a few turns
-Using the opposing creatures and your own to assemble an insurmountable board state through clones/steal effects
-Ramping into big creatures and then dropping something that costs 7+ every turn
-Board wiping and playing draw spells until the other players are exhausted of resources and you can try to drop your own strong threats.
-Playing cards like blightsteel colossus on turn 7 or later.
Or other players like graveyard decks tasigur, the golden fang, which takes forever to end their turn, or they just keep asking you decide the card are your turn. So one round takes like 30minutes for 4 ppl. Basically i just gave all the tutors sorcery he wants, wheel his hand with more than 40 cards with runehorn hellkite, then just beat the crap out of him with Scion of the Ur-Dragon, as he has to rebuild his hand again.
But perhaps, killing these players is the most fun in commander
I don't really mind how I lost provided 1) You didn't take a 20+ minute turn to win, and 2) there's variety from game to game in how I lose (preferably each of my opponents decks will have this variety, but at the very least switch to a deck that wins in a different way after you've got a win with the first one)
So you don't like playing against decks that interact with your deck. Got it.
I suppose I should've specified that I don't like pure control. As in, everything in your deck is meant to stop opponents from doing anything until they scoop in frustration or you maybe get a wincon out. I don't mind interaction as long as it doesn't shut every single player out for the entire game.
I enjoy variety. Losing to the same deck in the same way in rapid succession gets old. For example, having the local Yisan, the Wanderer Bard deck win on turn four twice in a row through some disruption was mildly annoying.
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What are your least favorite ways to lose?
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
Least favorite way is definitely against stax, control, and MLD decks. There's a special place in hell for people who play those.
I was playing an Angus MacKenzie Flicker-Themed deck, against a Phage the Untouchable deck, and a Zedruu the Greathearted deck. Already, this is an absolute party of a match up. The Phage player manages to get their Commander out thanks to Command Beacon, but the Zedruu player steals it. Over the course of a few more turns, the Zedruu player actually donates Phage to me, and the Phage player ultimates Sorin Markov, taking over my turn. He sees that I have Conjurer's Closet in my hand, and casts it. He then proceeded to use it to flicker Phage.
Seriously?
The only decks I really hate losing to are chaos decks. No, I don't want to spend 15 minutes resolving Warp World only to follow it up with Thieves' Auction, so I'll just scoop, thanks.
[Primer] Erebos, God of the Dead
HONK HONK
Not in the sense of "Oh, I didn't plan for that meta." More in the sense of "Wait a minute, those cards do what together?"
Of course, if it's a string of losses, it's gonna be harder to find the fun.
I think if I'm losing 20 or more life between untap steps, I'm probably frustrated, usually because if I'm being dealt that much damage, it's more like 30-40+ or 10 infect all at once. I would like at minimum, the chance to untap and attempt to defend myself from whatever surprise threat that was plopped on the board with haste. These kinds of threats push my deck building to places that are annoying to fair decks.
Older Magic as a Board Game: Panglacial Wurm , Mill
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Modern: URW Madcap Experiment
Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
My EDH Commanders:
Aminatou, The Fateshifter UBW
Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed B
Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
Glissa, the Traitor BG
Arcum Dagsson U
Most frustrating loss was about twenty years ago. This dude had some infinite recycle loop that locks me while still forcing me to play. We go at it for about two hours after other people are out, all the while I'm asking him if he even has a win con and he won't tell me. He strings me along because I'm always close to overpowering him. He finally admits that no, there is no win con until I draw out. He was just literally trying to win by pissing me off enough to scoop. I almost swung on the dude, I was so pissed, and he was both amused and shocked that I didn't find it as funny as he did. To this day, he's the most worthless Magic player I've endured, though I never played with him again and I never sit for longer than a few turns of endless activity traps before I scoop.
A big part of why I rarely play in stores anymore because you never know what anti-social nuts will show up to take their life frustrations out on other people by dicking with them.
I don't particularly care losing when the guy plays his cards in stony silence and then gets upset waiting for me to scoop as I try to work out what blasted combo he's put together. Nor to the guy who constantly gloats about his deck, such as putting together an all foil deck, as if that alone is somehow the magic sauce that should automatically make me scoop. I don't generally play with foils so my decks tend to look a bit "ratty". I also have a preference for the old frames.
The inverse is true, winning against Stony Silence seems to set him or her off on some tirade about bad luck or whatever. And against Foil guy with my "crummy" non-foil deck. It doesn't make me feel bad, it's just a hassle.
I once spent a good twenty minutes with a guy as he showed me the ins and outs of his Elvish deck and how to improve my own deck against his as we sat there with our cards in turn 3 or 4. I was running Jester's Cap and was trying to tear his deck apart. I think we decided on a draw but we both walked away satisfied.
I like games that go long and are highly interactive, and get political.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
I would have to agree that knowing when your beat comes in handy, I will scoop, congrats the winner and carry on. Even if it was against MLD, Stax, or any 'disliked' archetypes. Its part of the game and they are beatable, just need to recognize when your all beat and when you can battle through.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
So you don't like playing against decks that interact with your deck. Got it.
I don't mind playing against anything. Infect, stax, MLD, combo, voltron, whatever. I just like turns to go quickly. We scooped the other day 10 minutes into a turn 3 Selvala Parley / Paradox Engine combo that was eventually, excruciatingly, going to draw and cast an Akroma's Memorial and smoke all of us. Watching someone dick around for that long isn't fun when you've got a very finite number of hours you can play MTG in a given month.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Not funny is losing to creature based decks that attacks for the win. Thats just plain boring. If I wanted to die to creature damage I would play 8 player drafts. But the players in my playgroup rarely plays creature decks like that, so I'm fine I guess
-Single haymaker wins, like killing a player with craterhoof from an otherwise non-threatening board of a few creatures
-"I don't care what you play" wins that just tutor out a combo
-Cards that abuse the format to win fast like serra ascendant targeting one player
-Sudden infinite combos that ignore the board state up until that point
It's important to me that the buildup of an edh game isn't just ignored. If someone doesn't care what the opponent is playing as long as it doesn't kill them or remove their combo, I don't want to play with them.
-Wins that come slowly after denying everyone the ability to play
-Cheating an annihilator eldrazi into play quickly denying people any chance to build up
-Taking a bunch of extra turns
No one likes to sit there wasting their time.
-Slivers
-pure voltron
These wins are extremely dull to me because all they do is ask "Do you have the specific type of removal that answers my extremely linear, all in strategy?". If you do have the removal, that player is essentially out of the game and often grumpy for the remaining 30+ minutes of gameplay, and if you don't, they just win.
Good:
-Wins that use the existing board state
-Wins that take multiple turns to set up
-Wins that let every other player also execute their gameplan
Examples of good wins:
-Making a token army, then next turn playing a spell that makes the token army go exponential
-Playing strong midrange creatures, then making them hard to remove through a not-your-commander card, then swinging for the win over a few turns
-Using the opposing creatures and your own to assemble an insurmountable board state through clones/steal effects
-Ramping into big creatures and then dropping something that costs 7+ every turn
-Board wiping and playing draw spells until the other players are exhausted of resources and you can try to drop your own strong threats.
-Playing cards like blightsteel colossus on turn 7 or later.
Is like reading a book or watching a film, the tension keeps rising, and suddenly, it pulls the most cliche out of nowhere ending for you......
Or stax/chaos deck
Seriously, go play solitaire , stop wasting my time with ward of bones, smokestack, and a winter orb. And just wait for them to drop the tabernacle at pendrell vale and thinks the game is getting more fun.
Or other players like graveyard decks tasigur, the golden fang, which takes forever to end their turn, or they just keep asking you decide the card are your turn. So one round takes like 30minutes for 4 ppl. Basically i just gave all the tutors sorcery he wants, wheel his hand with more than 40 cards with runehorn hellkite, then just beat the crap out of him with Scion of the Ur-Dragon, as he has to rebuild his hand again.
But perhaps, killing these players is the most fun in commander
I suppose I should've specified that I don't like pure control. As in, everything in your deck is meant to stop opponents from doing anything until they scoop in frustration or you maybe get a wincon out. I don't mind interaction as long as it doesn't shut every single player out for the entire game.