I'm looking to build a Vial Smasher the Fierce EDH deck based around traditional burn, such as Comet Storm, Blasphemous Act, Exsanguinate, Thermo-Alchemist, and others with damage doubles like Fire Servant, Wound Reflection, and Furnace of Rath, but also includes cards that have a high converted mana cost but can be cast for much cheaper, such as delve cards, like Tombstalker, and cards like Avatar of Woe. I also want to play cards that work off of cmc like Vial Smasher the Fierce, such as Baneful Omen. What I'm looking for is input on what cards are good for this strategy and also if there are good cards worth playing outside of B/R and which partner commander I should use. I would like to play B/R or tri-color if possible to streamline the deck and save money but I am open to playing four color if a good enough argument can be made. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for the suggestions. Grixis does seem like the way to go for this deck if I don't stick with B/R. I did like the thought of white for Sorin, Grim Nemesis, monastery Mentor, and Soulfire Grand Master though. If I play grixis, which commander do you think I better, Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist or Kraum, Ludevic's Opus? Also, though I would like more suggestions on cards to play with Vial Smasher, what cards are good to play with burn in EDH? Single target cards like Lightning Bolt are ok in EDH but are not as good as they are in duel commander or 60 card formats so I would like suggestions on better cards. I know there is a post I can peruse for suggestions but some specifics for burn that also works with Smasher would be nice.
Scroll Rack or Sensei's Divining Top can help make sure that if you are running a great amount of card draw that you'll cast what you need when you need it.
I'm still not set on what I want to play but when thinking about grixis, there are a host of cost reduction cards available. What do you guys think are the one worth playing? I know Baral, Chief of Compliance and Goblin Electromancer are worth playing but what do you think of the others?
Also, do you think Metallurgic Summonings is worth playing? I think it may be really good but it may be too expensive.
One final thought. Is Mind's Dilation worth playing? My thought is that it is another way to get Vial Smasher the Fierce triggers on my opponents turns.
With Vial Smasher, you may want to be playing some instants, to take advantage of her "each turn" clause. Traditional instant burn spells don't scale well in multiplayer EDH, but they can still have some value, and more if they play into your plan of chipping away at opponents' life totals. Combining Vial Smasher with a partner to add more colors (whether going Grixis or Mardu or four-color or whatever) adds a wider range of instants, if you're willing to step a further bit outside burn, and also provides more options with flashback, which can help you cast something (and thus do a little bit of damage) every turn.
Bonfire of the Damned wouldn't be the worst card in EDH, however it will do next to nothing with Vial Smasher due to it's cmc being 2.
Baral does NOT have partner. In order to splash blue, you would need to run either Kraum, Ludevic's Opus, Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist or um... according to Gatherer there are no BU partner commanders... okay...
Kraum has a body and haste and will be far more beneficial to you and only you. Ludevic, on the other hand, doesn't need a body because it will be making you less of a target due to its "group hug" nature. Cloud Key is always an option, as well as Jet Medallion or Ruby Medallion. Helm of Awakening is a personal favorite of mine in multiplayer because I've yet to see ANYONE attempt to directly target it with removal due to its "group hug" mechanic. Utilizing cards like these or mana accelerators I mentioned before or Crypt Ghast(who is allowed because extort only mentions W in its flavor text, which isn't considered "part" or the functional card, hence it maintains a sheerly B identity.)
Bonfire of the Damned wouldn't be the worst card in EDH, however it will do next to nothing with Vial Smasher due to it's cmc being 2.
Baral does NOT have partner. In order to splash blue, you would need to run either Kraum, Ludevic's Opus, Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist or um... according to Gatherer there are no BU partner commanders... okay...
Kraum has a body and haste and will be far more beneficial to you and only you. Ludevic, on the other hand, doesn't need a body because it will be making you less of a target due to its "group hug" nature. Cloud Key is always an option, as well as Jet Medallion or Ruby Medallion. Helm of Awakening is a personal favorite of mine in multiplayer because I've yet to see ANYONE attempt to directly target it with removal due to its "group hug" mechanic. Utilizing cards like these or mana accelerators I mentioned before or Crypt Ghast(who is allowed because extort only mentions W in its flavor text, which isn't considered "part" or the functional card, hence it maintains a sheerly B identity.)
Delve and Affinity are two mechanics that both enjoy having Vial-Smasher as commander. I wouldn't mix both, but one of either works. For both, Blue is the best colour to add. If you don't mind splashing a 4th (Like you'd barely need land for it), Green for Delve and White for Affinity are the best additions. There's something cathartic about doming someone for 9 just for casting Treasure Cruise.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Delve and Affinity are two mechanics that both enjoy having Vial-Smasher as commander. I wouldn't mix both, but one of either works. For both, Blue is the best colour to add. If you don't mind splashing a 4th (Like you'd barely need land for it), Green for Delve and White for Affinity are the best additions. There's something cathartic about doming someone for 9 just for casting Treasure Cruise.
I didn't think about about affinity but now that you mention it that seems kind of fun. What do you think is worth running from affinity? To me, only Thoughtcast, Broodstar, Mycosynth Golem, Blinkmoth Infusion, and maybe because they would be so cheap to cast, Myr Enforcer, and Qumulox. Admittedly with an artifact sub theme to my deck I could play my favorite Aether Revolt card, Herald of Anguish but that few affinity cards makes me think that an artifact sub theme might not be worth it. If I start playing just artifacts, I lose the theme of playing Vial Smasher.
Well, you wouldn't want too many Affinity cards anyway due to the risk of getting stuck with them on hand. If you don't want to go a full-on artifact-based route though, then Affinity is probably not the best choice and Delve might be better for you.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Well, you wouldn't want too many Affinity cards anyway due to the risk of getting stuck with them on hand. If you don't want to go a full-on artifact-based route though, then Affinity is probably not the best choice and Delve might be better for you.
My only problem with going full on artifacts is that I feel I would loose the ability to play all the non instant/sorcery cards that have cost reduction abilities that aren't artifacts, like Bedlam Reveler and Avatar of Woe, which is the main theme I want to play.
I do have a question about the delve idea. Besides Dig through Time, Treasure Cruise, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, and maybe Tombstalker, which I would play no matter what, is delve worth playing as a strategy by itself or would I have to add in ways of filling my graveyard to make delve consistent?
I googled good burn cards id EDH and found a post that mentioned Backlash and Delirium. Are there any other cards like that? Those are the type of burn cards I would definitely want to play. Those seem good for the burn strategy.
Well, you wouldn't want too many Affinity cards anyway due to the risk of getting stuck with them on hand. If you don't want to go a full-on artifact-based route though, then Affinity is probably not the best choice and Delve might be better for you.
My only problem with going full on artifacts is that I feel I would loose the ability to play all the non instant/sorcery cards that have cost reduction abilities that aren't artifacts, like Bedlam Reveler and Avatar of Woe, which is the main theme I want to play.
I do have a question about the delve idea. Besides Dig through Time, Treasure Cruise, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, and maybe Tombstalker, which I would play no matter what, is delve worth playing as a strategy by itself or would I have to add in ways of filling my graveyard to make delve consistent?
You'll want a few cards to pitch stuff in your grave but those mesh well with Bedlam Reveler and Avatar of Woe-like cards anyway. Think stuff like Forbidden Alchemy, works very well. You'll also want to take a look at Temporal Trespass and Necropolis Fiend - both are very useable Delve cards on their own as well.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I have a blanket question for when I start playing this deck. For alternative and additional costs on spells, what does Vial Smasher see as their converted mana cost?
Also, are there any playable cards that work off of cmc like Vial Smasher? Baneful Omen doesn't seem playable in tri-color or more due to the BBB and Sorin, Grim Nemesis is only playable in W, which does not have a good partner, with which I can also play U.
And if you wanted to add WWW to the equation, you could use Sublime Exhalation or any other Undaunted cards. Debt to the Deathless also works as a finisher if you're going in the mardu direction.
Kaervek The Merciless may be a potential general choice for you.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Cards like:
- Ancient Excavation
- Grave Upheaval
- Guttersnipe
- Sphinx-Bone Wand
may be up your alley.Vicious Shadows is sweet to if people run board clears, or after a Blasphemous Act
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Thanks for the suggestions. Grixis does seem like the way to go for this deck if I don't stick with B/R. I did like the thought of white for Sorin, Grim Nemesis, monastery Mentor, and Soulfire Grand Master though. If I play grixis, which commander do you think I better, Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist or Kraum, Ludevic's Opus? Also, though I would like more suggestions on cards to play with Vial Smasher, what cards are good to play with burn in EDH? Single target cards like Lightning Bolt are ok in EDH but are not as good as they are in duel commander or 60 card formats so I would like suggestions on better cards. I know there is a post I can peruse for suggestions but some specifics for burn that also works with Smasher would be nice.
Also, I'm seeing Vial Smasher LOVING miracle cards (Reforge the Soul and Thunderous Wrath).
Holy crap, something like Omen Machine could REALLY cause trouble with fatties or things like Volley of Bouldersflashedback or Avatar of Fury.
On a side note, I'd totally do Feldon's Cane or something like it to restock your burn after using it.
You might want to look into other boosters like Pyromancer's Goggles, Pyromancer's Googles,Pyromancer's Swarth, Gauntlet of Might, or even something like Mana Matrix. Guttersnipe ticks off everyone at once, so be careful with it.
Scroll Rack or Sensei's Divining Top can help make sure that if you are running a great amount of card draw that you'll cast what you need when you need it.
Lastly, Everlasting Torment. No reason not to run this with your colors.
Also, do you think Metallurgic Summonings is worth playing? I think it may be really good but it may be too expensive.
One final thought. Is Mind's Dilation worth playing? My thought is that it is another way to get Vial Smasher the Fierce triggers on my opponents turns.
Breath of Malfegor, especially with doublers, ain't a bad instant.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
Baral does NOT have partner. In order to splash blue, you would need to run either Kraum, Ludevic's Opus, Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist or um... according to Gatherer there are no BU partner commanders... okay...
Kraum has a body and haste and will be far more beneficial to you and only you. Ludevic, on the other hand, doesn't need a body because it will be making you less of a target due to its "group hug" nature.
Cloud Key is always an option, as well as Jet Medallion or Ruby Medallion. Helm of Awakening is a personal favorite of mine in multiplayer because I've yet to see ANYONE attempt to directly target it with removal due to its "group hug" mechanic. Utilizing cards like these or mana accelerators I mentioned before or Crypt Ghast(who is allowed because extort only mentions W in its flavor text, which isn't considered "part" or the functional card, hence it maintains a sheerly B identity.)
Complete tangent, Bedlam Reveler might be good for you, as well as Beseech the Queen.
No, Bonfire's CMC is 2X+1 regardless of cast with miracle or without.
I tried Grixis Vial Smasher for a bit, and it was fun. Cards like Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time become even better than they usually are.
UGR Wanderer
UGB Tasigur Control
URB Jeleva Storm
RW Gisela Control
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I didn't think about about affinity but now that you mention it that seems kind of fun. What do you think is worth running from affinity? To me, only Thoughtcast, Broodstar, Mycosynth Golem, Blinkmoth Infusion, and maybe because they would be so cheap to cast, Myr Enforcer, and Qumulox. Admittedly with an artifact sub theme to my deck I could play my favorite Aether Revolt card, Herald of Anguish but that few affinity cards makes me think that an artifact sub theme might not be worth it. If I start playing just artifacts, I lose the theme of playing Vial Smasher.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
My only problem with going full on artifacts is that I feel I would loose the ability to play all the non instant/sorcery cards that have cost reduction abilities that aren't artifacts, like Bedlam Reveler and Avatar of Woe, which is the main theme I want to play.
I do have a question about the delve idea. Besides Dig through Time, Treasure Cruise, Tasigur, the Golden Fang, and maybe Tombstalker, which I would play no matter what, is delve worth playing as a strategy by itself or would I have to add in ways of filling my graveyard to make delve consistent?
You'll want a few cards to pitch stuff in your grave but those mesh well with Bedlam Reveler and Avatar of Woe-like cards anyway. Think stuff like Forbidden Alchemy, works very well. You'll also want to take a look at Temporal Trespass and Necropolis Fiend - both are very useable Delve cards on their own as well.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Also Insurrection with Reprocess or Forbidden Ritual
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Also, are there any playable cards that work off of cmc like Vial Smasher? Baneful Omen doesn't seem playable in tri-color or more due to the BBB and Sorin, Grim Nemesis is only playable in W, which does not have a good partner, with which I can also play U.
I like the suggestion. I don't like that it is over $10, but I like it.
Command Tower
Crumbling Necropolis
The vivid lands like Vivid Marsh
The bouncelands like Orzhov Basilica.
Exsanguinate might be a finisher in your deck as well.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar