My first love in Legacy was Pox. Modern 8Rack control has always appealed to me, too. None of the win-cons of those decks translate particularly well into multiplayer EDH. Of all of them (Cursed Scroll, The Rack, Shrieking Affliction, etc.) Afflication is likely the best, and that's not a good thing as it's effect is so low in a 40-life format and there's not really any redundancy out there for it.
So, I guess the question is: are there any other ways to directly turn keeping your opponents' hands shredded into killing them?
Megrim is the usual suspect. Waste Not doesn't directly kill your opponent but does reward you for making them discard.
A synergistic strategy is to also include all the Underworld Dreams-type cards that punish drawing, and hit your opponents on both parts of a Wheel. So basically any Nekusar, the Mindrazer deck ever. I would suggest perusing Nekusar decklists for some hidden gems.
I think the way you are thinking would be too slow for edh. As the above poster stated you can chain multiple wheels together to force opponents to discard hands of cards. Liliana's Caress and Nath of the Gilt-Leaf are two other cards I can think of that work with that strategy. Of course you are also causing them to draw a ton and fill their graveyards so the synergies increase from there.
I have been playing my monoblack spirits discard control deck for years now and I find the easiest way is to use the pure card advanatge you can gain from just minimizing your opponents options. I use the typical black win cons to grind out wins. Cards such as Gray Merchant of Asphodel, Balthor the Defiled and Kokusho, the Evening Star. However I also use He who Hungers as my commander so I have a more unique way of discarding so that is sort of relevant for why this is my wincon style.
Other key cards I find that are useful are: Ill-Gotten Gains, Noetic Scales, Death Cloud which both win me games out of nowhere in my MBDC deck. If you want you can look at my deck for more resources in my Sig.
But I feel the most important question is who are you thinking of using for your Discard Control Deck? This really changes how you want to win IMO and is something I feel is very relevant to the discussion. However I feel the top contenders forcommander of a discard deck are:
By the term "kill" are you wanting just effects that cause damage to players, or just ways to make the game end faster?
IMO the best way to "kill" a table via discard would be sunder + something. Unless the opponent(s) have some infinite hand size enabler already, they will almost always start discarding for you.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Thanks for all the replies thus far. I'll try to respond to each individually as I'm able. Just to help the discussion, though, the deck I had in mind when pondering this question was Leovold, Emissary of Trest, where it's relatively easy to lock people pretty hard with Leovold + a wheel, and then a Teferi's Puzzle Box or Anvil of Bogardan or the like. I guess the question is how you win other than scoops. And I think the question does apply to discard commanders in general, although some like Nath or Nekusar serve as the deck's win con as well.
That's not false. I was hoping for little more... elegant solution Other than the painful slowness of beating people to death with utility critters, it also technically gives them more time/turns to come up with some way to break out of a lock.
If they dont scoop from Leovold + Puzzlebox. Remember puzzlebox lets you dig deep into the deck for kill cards, so any rack/(you)draw pain will finish them. Nekusar isnt going to help, or any red cards mentioned but Psychosis Crawler will finish them.
If they dont scoop from Leovold + Puzzlebox. Remember puzzlebox lets you dig deep into the deck for kill cards, so any rack/(you)draw pain will finish them. Nekusar isnt going to help, or any red cards mentioned but Psychosis Crawler will finish them.
Crawler is definitely a nice, grindy solution. Always forget about it outside of infinite use in Azami or whatever other blue infinite mana deck...
My advice for a grindy deck is to have a win con that can win quickly. Having games grind out while you hit for 3 damage a turn are brutal. I would pick a combo that complements your deck. Maybe a Laboratory Maniac kill.
Maybe it's just Palinchron + DeadEye Navigator + Capsize/Venser, shaper savant ?
So, I guess the question is: are there any other ways to directly turn keeping your opponents' hands shredded into killing them?
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
A synergistic strategy is to also include all the Underworld Dreams-type cards that punish drawing, and hit your opponents on both parts of a Wheel. So basically any Nekusar, the Mindrazer deck ever. I would suggest perusing Nekusar decklists for some hidden gems.
Making 3 opponents discard 7 cards each nets you 21 elf tokens.
This site recommends cards in a better way than I can:
https://edhrec.com/commanders/nath-of-the-gilt-leaf
Other key cards I find that are useful are: Ill-Gotten Gains, Noetic Scales, Death Cloud which both win me games out of nowhere in my MBDC deck. If you want you can look at my deck for more resources in my Sig.
But I feel the most important question is who are you thinking of using for your Discard Control Deck? This really changes how you want to win IMO and is something I feel is very relevant to the discussion. However I feel the top contenders forcommander of a discard deck are:
Nekusar, the Mindrazer: Wheels make for nice mass discarding
Nath of the Gilt-Leaf: Elf tokens make for an easy wincon
Greel, Mind Raker: Mindtwist is a very strong card. repeating it is normally game winning.
He Who Hungers: a 'Free' Thoughtsieze is fun when you have Bloodghast, Nether traitor, and Nether Shadow (this pick might be a bit biased)
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind:Discarding creatures to voltron your way to a win
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur: a very funny deck to watch when people assume combo but it is actually a discard control based deck.
IMO the best way to "kill" a table via discard would be sunder + something. Unless the opponent(s) have some infinite hand size enabler already, they will almost always start discarding for you.
Something like eot-cyclonic rift then sunder, devastaion tide+sunder, sunder + reliquary tower + blue mana from gilded lotus or something to counter something, or sunder + some wheel of fortune effect with crucible of worlds out.
While it doesn't exactly win the game itself, if your deck is tuned for it, most players will just scoop up their cards.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
On phasing:
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
That's not false. I was hoping for little more... elegant solution
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Crawler is definitely a nice, grindy solution. Always forget about it outside of infinite use in Azami or whatever other blue infinite mana deck...
R.I.P. Sundering Titan (6/20/12) and Braids, Cabal Minion (9/12/14)
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
Mind Slash combos with Nath.
You can always use Bribery to steal a big fatty.
My advice for a grindy deck is to have a win con that can win quickly. Having games grind out while you hit for 3 damage a turn are brutal. I would pick a combo that complements your deck. Maybe a Laboratory Maniac kill.
Maybe it's just Palinchron + DeadEye Navigator + Capsize/Venser, shaper savant ?
Maybe you'll find something new.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar