Anyone ever have a game where you feel people are targeting you not for being a threat but just because they did not like you a previous game? Last Thursday i had a night where game 1, i played Leovold. I expect people to hate me (And I did win) Game 2, i switched to Riku, (my riku deck is not evil, they know this i am not a threat by any means) but they still went after me because of Leovold.
Anyone else have this kind of issue with your playgroup? (Same effect when i use to play Arcum, Switch decks i am still a target after. Azami and Nin too)
Although maybe not justified, I believe your methods of winning are getting you targeted more than the winning itself. Regardless of the deck if I play someone who has a recent history of shutting everyone down to the point where no one else is enjoying the game... I'm probably going to get rid of you before it happens again.
Although maybe not justified, I believe your methods of winning are getting you targeted more than the winning itself. Regardless of the deck if I play someone who has a recent history of shutting everyone down to the point where no one else is enjoying the game... I'm probably going to get rid of you before it happens again.
Fair assumption but really Leovold and Arcum were my only "Shut down" decks (And arcum was usually "i shut you down and win")
As for Nin and Azami... it was just comboing off.
Percieved threat is still a threat, sounds like you're not telegraphing your deck before you play. Unless your group were all playing 'tier 1'cDH, id be salty too. Sounds like from you deck(s) they were right to do so, again and again.
About four or five months ago, I was playing Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas in a Commander tournament put on by my local game store. Nothing too terribly competitive, since we were playing for prize tickets. I played a pretty good game, swept the pod I was playing in and got into the finals. Didn't win, but I had fun.
Fast forward to last week. I end up in a pod with one of the players that I played against in that tournament. I'm playing Kalemne, because I had already played two other decks that evening. The guy declares that my Kalemne deck is too strong and starts gunning for me and me only. Every attack he makes is against me, every removal spell is aimed at one of my permanents. I even called him on his attitude multiple times.
That game made an otherwise decent evening miserable.
The guy declares that my Kalemne deck is too strong
Boros 2 stronk
Were you even playing MLD or anything like that? For my own curiosity, was he playing UGx?
On topic, of course, but not with any regularity. I would think most FLGSs have that one salty dog, unfortunately. Some people just can't keep what happens in game in the game. The only time that really comes to mind for me is when I infinite Mindslaver locked a guy with a Daretti, Scrap Savant ultimate and he became the Dead Sea. I switched out to Xenagos, God of Revels and when he started targeting me every time, I sniped him with a Malignus and got the coldest stare I've ever seen. Worth it, though.
Yes, but not all the time. It helps to have a playgroup that understands threats or at least one that understands one's reasoning when explained about potential threats.
Possible solution: Play with weaker decks first.
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The guy declares that my Kalemne deck is too strong
Boros 2 stronk
Were you even playing MLD or anything like that? For my own curiosity, was he playing UGx?
I don't remember what he played in the tournament, but he was playing Azusa in the game last week. There's not a single piece of land destruction in the deck, but after that game, I'm considering Cataclysm.
Yes. My friends take out their life frustrations on me during magic games. Somehow anything I do becomes the number one priority to stop. Admittedly I am much better at magic than they are, but still..
Although maybe not justified, I believe your methods of winning are getting you targeted more than the winning itself. Regardless of the deck if I play someone who has a recent history of shutting everyone down to the point where no one else is enjoying the game... I'm probably going to get rid of you before it happens again.
Fair assumption but really Leovold and Arcum were my only "Shut down" decks (And arcum was usually "i shut you down and win")
As for Nin and Azami... it was just comboing off.
Point is, for all the decks you mention, at some point in the game, the game for me as your opponent is over. Whether I am locked out or you just win through combo, you end my game on the spot there and then. So as far as I can tell your opponents just made a proper threat assessment. This is what Keramory means. If you play lock or combo you force your opponents to kill you before you manage to achieve said lock/combo. That means you are always (one of the) biggest threat(s) regardless of your actual boardstate.
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The secret to enjoyable Commander games is not winning first, but losing last.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
I will focus the deck that is most difficult for my deck to fight naturally. Often that is a combo deck, especially if I am an aggro or non blue deck. my deck has very little grave hate?, well I'd better hit that jarad deck for 40 as soon as I can no matter how fair that deck might be... also Narset players always die first.
As quoted but also my point is players are often associated by their decks.
For example I have 20 decks. If I played my most hardcore stax or bs combo for the first time with a new players, they associate that with me.
I can play another deck that's more casual right after, and do my best to convince them of that... but I'm probably going to get targeted hard because their only knowledge of me was I play bs cards.
Again, in an ideal world, where people can sit back and post about proper threat assessment and everything else... yes the people I played with should have realized the difference.
However humans are not like that in any aspect. This is especially true with games. And this is especially... especially true with mtg where many players have problems on some level with social interactions.
My advice? Always play your weaker decks first. Even if they're playing strong decks, bite the bullet and lose. THEN bring out the better deck.
This way they associate you with a fun guy who can play hard if he wants, opposed to the other type of guy I mentioned above
Comes and goes. My playgroup hasn't changed in a couple years. We're used to each other, and there isn't anything gameplay wise we haven't pulled on one another. With that said, certain members are regarded as threats at all times and are treated as such.
Salt, in our group, comes more in the fashion of reactions to bad threat assessment.
...or when somebody blows up my only blue source in Animar.
I, personally, will cycle in a Hugs deck every now and then when I feel I may be garnering too much hate.
My group jokingly calls this the "blood feud". We're all pretty good-natured but if someone goes nuts and combos out on turn 4 one game they expect to be targeted the following game even if they change decks. It doesn't get too vindictive, but we're also a close group.
This is one of the many reasons I'm glad I don't have to play pick up games of EDH at a store.
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Current Decks GTitania midrange RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
I actually have one person who seems to act like they are the elected official for the Anti-Fun Police. They build decks and run their decks with the express purpose of trying to uphold the Social Contract of Commander. If you play something that may be of the realm of a DBAG type of deck he'll start calling it out even if your deck has none of the offending things.
He used a 11 point Nightmare Incursion to remove every single win con I might have had in my Oloro deck. Which, yes it was a pillow fort deck, but he left all the pillow fort still in there. So I'm not sure what his end game was. I couldn't win but I could make everyone's life miserable for the next few hours as I locked it down?
He also out right lied to everyone at the table after searching my deck with a bribery.
I feel like I get targeted with Sharuum because it's that "infinite combo deck" a lot, unless there's a player who's also know to play degenerate deck
I know how that is. I can't play with my Oloro, Zur, or Sen Triplets deck or silver queen or overlord deck with out instant hate. Even though I have actually made great strides to tune them down in terms of what people hate them for.
Yet you have 3 people in a 5-6 player game bringing mono green decks which are ALWAYS ramp decks in some manner run free.
Percieved threat is still a threat, sounds like you're not telegraphing your deck before you play. Unless your group were all playing 'tier 1'cDH, id be salty too. Sounds like from you deck(s) they were right to do so, again and again.
well my Leovold, fair enough. But My Riku deck is just clones and nothing but. They have played the deck many times too so they know what it is.
I did ask one of the guys if he was salty and he said yes.
My advice? Always play your weaker decks first. Even if they're playing strong decks, bite the bullet and lose. THEN bring out the better deck.
Leovold was built to deal with one player (Who plays derevi and wins 90% of the games he plays, even in a 3v1) and a GAAI deck along with a forth payer who will be playing something that is on par with the big guns. I play leovold and my main goal is to lock them down early. I was not aiming for a win, i was aiming to annoy. Win by making them scoop (And right now I have a 50% win rate)
Riku is my nice deck (Aside form Riku and Leovold I also have a Purphoros which can win very quickly. Riku can as well but i need them to lay off me for a minute.
Huh, seems a wierd dynamic then. If players are bringing thier worst (zur, azami, derevi, HD) what right do they have to complain and be pissy about getting beat?
If they knew you toned it down than gang beat you again, with same Derevi type or some other bs, then yeah, that was some terrible threat analysis, and sore losers. No right to be salty if you brought a degenerate deck and lost to another one.
In my group, I'm known to get salty on occasion. I honesty don't care about winning - win or lose, I want to have fun and play fun games. That being said, I do win almost half the games I play, despite averaging three opponents. You beat me, awesome. Beat me in a cool or interesting way, sweet. But lock out the game so no one can play, make us sit there turn after turn wishing it was over, play solitaire with multiple extra turns that each last 15 minutes, or do something absolutely stupid, like deprive an underdog of resources while ignoring clear and present threats, and yes, I will hold a grudge. If I can, I'll restrict it to that game, even going so far as trading any chance of winning to make a point. If I can't in that game, I might carry it to the next. But it ends there.
We had one guy wipe out all lands multiple times in one game with no potential wincon or way to take advantage, something that is very frowned upon in my group. The game took hours (it really hurt that one of his spells was Decree of Annihilation), with many turns of "draw, not a land, pass." When we finally started to be able to play spells again, he did it again. It was pointless, and not one player (him included) was having fun. The next game, I got infinite mana, blinked Acidic Slime repeatedly with Deadeye Navigator, and blew up all of his land before killing my own combo and leaving everyone else's board intact. I said "I thought you enjoyed playing without land" and proceeded to play normally. My group doesn't mind board resets for the win. We do mind wasted time that cuts down on how many games we can play or how much interaction there is.
And I have to agree with what was stated above - how you win matters more than whether you win. Leovold with Teferi's Puzzle Box is not fun; it wasn't the first time, and it won't be this time. It will earn a "kill on sight status" that extends from your general to you.
And I have to agree with what was stated above - how you win matters more than whether you win. Leovold with Teferi's Puzzle Box is not fun; it wasn't the first time, and it won't be this time. It will earn a "kill on sight status" that extends from your general to you.
Fair enough, though people should have learned by now that I don't like getting ganged up on for no reason. Leovold is fair but it should just be that game. I do not enjoy having my weaker deck be public enemy number one and have 3 people still targeting me even though i have nothing.
They should have learned this back when I played arcum and had a lols Arcum deck that was not evil in any way. It was aa for fun deck thata llowed me to tutor jank and have fun. I was public enemy #1 so i tweaked acrum and fine tuned it week after week until eventually, i was winning with mass blightseels turn 4 or disk locking turn 3. Exploding out of the gate every game and turns ahead.
Eventually people told me to stop playing arcum so I built Erayo. Mainly to show them that my deck was not as bad as it could be. (Eryao lasted a week. full of jank and I could have fined tuned it to be better.) (Eventually erayo got banned)
So yes, not letting me have fun has led me to build Leovold. They asked for it.
I mostly play with my younger brothers, neither of which have the sheer amount or quality of cards I have. Most games end up as a sucky archenemy game me against them.
Anyone else have this kind of issue with your playgroup? (Same effect when i use to play Arcum, Switch decks i am still a target after. Azami and Nin too)
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Fair assumption but really Leovold and Arcum were my only "Shut down" decks (And arcum was usually "i shut you down and win")
As for Nin and Azami... it was just comboing off.
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WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
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About four or five months ago, I was playing Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas in a Commander tournament put on by my local game store. Nothing too terribly competitive, since we were playing for prize tickets. I played a pretty good game, swept the pod I was playing in and got into the finals. Didn't win, but I had fun.
Fast forward to last week. I end up in a pod with one of the players that I played against in that tournament. I'm playing Kalemne, because I had already played two other decks that evening. The guy declares that my Kalemne deck is too strong and starts gunning for me and me only. Every attack he makes is against me, every removal spell is aimed at one of my permanents. I even called him on his attitude multiple times.
That game made an otherwise decent evening miserable.
Boros 2 stronk
Were you even playing MLD or anything like that? For my own curiosity, was he playing UGx?
On topic, of course, but not with any regularity. I would think most FLGSs have that one salty dog, unfortunately. Some people just can't keep what happens in game in the game. The only time that really comes to mind for me is when I infinite Mindslaver locked a guy with a Daretti, Scrap Savant ultimate and he became the Dead Sea. I switched out to Xenagos, God of Revels and when he started targeting me every time, I sniped him with a Malignus and got the coldest stare I've ever seen. Worth it, though.
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Possible solution: Play with weaker decks first.
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I don't remember what he played in the tournament, but he was playing Azusa in the game last week. There's not a single piece of land destruction in the deck, but after that game, I'm considering Cataclysm.
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Point is, for all the decks you mention, at some point in the game, the game for me as your opponent is over. Whether I am locked out or you just win through combo, you end my game on the spot there and then. So as far as I can tell your opponents just made a proper threat assessment. This is what Keramory means. If you play lock or combo you force your opponents to kill you before you manage to achieve said lock/combo. That means you are always (one of the) biggest threat(s) regardless of your actual boardstate.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
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For example I have 20 decks. If I played my most hardcore stax or bs combo for the first time with a new players, they associate that with me.
I can play another deck that's more casual right after, and do my best to convince them of that... but I'm probably going to get targeted hard because their only knowledge of me was I play bs cards.
Again, in an ideal world, where people can sit back and post about proper threat assessment and everything else... yes the people I played with should have realized the difference.
However humans are not like that in any aspect. This is especially true with games. And this is especially... especially true with mtg where many players have problems on some level with social interactions.
My advice? Always play your weaker decks first. Even if they're playing strong decks, bite the bullet and lose. THEN bring out the better deck.
This way they associate you with a fun guy who can play hard if he wants, opposed to the other type of guy I mentioned above
Salt, in our group, comes more in the fashion of reactions to bad threat assessment.
...or when somebody blows up my only blue source in Animar.
I, personally, will cycle in a Hugs deck every now and then when I feel I may be garnering too much hate.
This is one of the many reasons I'm glad I don't have to play pick up games of EDH at a store.
Current Decks
GTitania midrange
RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal
GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron
U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher
RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
He used a 11 point Nightmare Incursion to remove every single win con I might have had in my Oloro deck. Which, yes it was a pillow fort deck, but he left all the pillow fort still in there. So I'm not sure what his end game was. I couldn't win but I could make everyone's life miserable for the next few hours as I locked it down?
He also out right lied to everyone at the table after searching my deck with a bribery.
I know how that is. I can't play with my Oloro, Zur, or Sen Triplets deck or silver queen or overlord deck with out instant hate. Even though I have actually made great strides to tune them down in terms of what people hate them for.
Yet you have 3 people in a 5-6 player game bringing mono green decks which are ALWAYS ramp decks in some manner run free.
well my Leovold, fair enough. But My Riku deck is just clones and nothing but. They have played the deck many times too so they know what it is.
I did ask one of the guys if he was salty and he said yes.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
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Leovold was built to deal with one player (Who plays derevi and wins 90% of the games he plays, even in a 3v1) and a GAAI deck along with a forth payer who will be playing something that is on par with the big guns. I play leovold and my main goal is to lock them down early. I was not aiming for a win, i was aiming to annoy. Win by making them scoop (And right now I have a 50% win rate)
Riku is my nice deck (Aside form Riku and Leovold I also have a Purphoros which can win very quickly. Riku can as well but i need them to lay off me for a minute.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
If they knew you toned it down than gang beat you again, with same Derevi type or some other bs, then yeah, that was some terrible threat analysis, and sore losers. No right to be salty if you brought a degenerate deck and lost to another one.
If things are close in the scores, you can expect some extra love from your fellow players as they (futilely) try to peg back your lead.
I won the last three years in a row, so I get some extra attention. Not so much I feel victimised, it's just the price you pay.
Also, the social nature of EDH helps balance OP decks as people gang up on you.
We had one guy wipe out all lands multiple times in one game with no potential wincon or way to take advantage, something that is very frowned upon in my group. The game took hours (it really hurt that one of his spells was Decree of Annihilation), with many turns of "draw, not a land, pass." When we finally started to be able to play spells again, he did it again. It was pointless, and not one player (him included) was having fun. The next game, I got infinite mana, blinked Acidic Slime repeatedly with Deadeye Navigator, and blew up all of his land before killing my own combo and leaving everyone else's board intact. I said "I thought you enjoyed playing without land" and proceeded to play normally. My group doesn't mind board resets for the win. We do mind wasted time that cuts down on how many games we can play or how much interaction there is.
And I have to agree with what was stated above - how you win matters more than whether you win. Leovold with Teferi's Puzzle Box is not fun; it wasn't the first time, and it won't be this time. It will earn a "kill on sight status" that extends from your general to you.
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Fair enough, though people should have learned by now that I don't like getting ganged up on for no reason. Leovold is fair but it should just be that game. I do not enjoy having my weaker deck be public enemy number one and have 3 people still targeting me even though i have nothing.
They should have learned this back when I played arcum and had a lols Arcum deck that was not evil in any way. It was aa for fun deck thata llowed me to tutor jank and have fun. I was public enemy #1 so i tweaked acrum and fine tuned it week after week until eventually, i was winning with mass blightseels turn 4 or disk locking turn 3. Exploding out of the gate every game and turns ahead.
Eventually people told me to stop playing arcum so I built Erayo. Mainly to show them that my deck was not as bad as it could be. (Eryao lasted a week. full of jank and I could have fined tuned it to be better.) (Eventually erayo got banned)
So yes, not letting me have fun has led me to build Leovold. They asked for it.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
So it's basically my life.
My helpful tip of the day, damage will cause you to lose life, hence why your "life" total goes down when you take damage. Amazing huh?
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
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---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith