In December, I got my hands on Commander 2016's Stalwart Unity and for the last two months I have not been able to wrap my head around this deck. it is just a pile of hot garbage that stresses me. I don't want to give up on it, but the last time I started a thread, it got two replies and died.
For starters, out of the box, it doesn't have any tutors to find it's prison cards. There are plenty of games where you don't even draw one prison card, let alone multiple. So when people write about "prison lock" I have to ask what they are talking about? What prison lock? Additionally, a good portion of the deck is dedicated to helping your opponents accelerate their lands, which would help them pay for the prison effects you do draw and play. That seems counter productive if you ask me.
Then the concept of group hug in the first place baffles me. I am normally a mono black player. I ten to attack your resources and try to limit them and fight over them. Why on this green earth would I WANT to help you accelerate them? Why is that desirable for anyone? When try to play the deck, I give my opponents free stuff, then they kill me with all the free stuff I gave them. No big surprise how that happened.
Why did I buy the deck? to try something different. To try something new. To have a deck without black, which is a color in pretty much every other deck I own.
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What do I like about the deck?
1) The flavor of the commander. I love the art and story in Theros block and the Commander itself. At worst, I will love keeping it in my binder for years to come, even if I can't get this deck to work for me. The same is true for the other legendary creatures found in the deck.
2) I like the idea of getting the most out of all four color and having them work together. Using G to simultaneously ramp and fix your other colors, U to draw cards, W for removal, and R on the attack.
3) The cards which encourage my opponents to leave me alone and attack each other seem interesting.
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I have never won a game with this deck, and notice the following trend in each of its losses:
1) No true win condition of end goal.
2) A complete lack of hard defenses. Prison cards and encouraging other people not to attack you doesn't actually stop them from attacking you, targeting you with spells, or finishing you off once the game becomes a duel... or if you sit down and are playing a duel as a casual pick up game withing for another table to finish so you can jump in for a 5 player game.
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Sure, it would be easy enough to just put a bunch of tutors and Mind Over Matter to make a Temple Bell infinite draw combo, but is that really the point? To play defense and combo out? I don't think so. i could jsut build a mono blue combo deck if that is what I wanted.
I have seen a youtube video about a player who suggested making a Wildfire/Armageddon type deck that encourages players to ramp out a bunch of lands from their decks and then blow them all up... and that is a level of trolling I don't find appealing either.
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Thank you for reading my rant and questions and hopefully replying. I want to find a way to make this deck work and not feel like a waste of money. I just don't understand the attraction or philosophy of group hug. I have never lost to it and have never won with it. What's the point? What am I missing? I don't really want to break the whole deck apart and build something completely different from scratch using completely different cards. I might as well give up in that case.
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"Whatever style you wish to play, be it fast and frenzied or slow and tactical, the surest way to defeat your opponent consistently is by dominating him or her in the war of card advantage." - Brian Wiseman, April 1996
There are two kinds of Group Hug, as far as I'm concerned.
On one hand, you have your typical Group Hug cards. These are cards that distribute cards evenly, which will usually lead to whoever gets to use them best winning the game. Think cards like Rite of Flourishing, Howling Mine, the works. This also includes something like Phelddagrif, which doesn't do all that much for you. These are bad cards in most games and good players will hate them, while bad players love them against them. Thing is that most of these cards give your opponents resources before you, leading to you helping them more than you are helping yourself.
Then, you have the actually interesting grouphug cards. Kynaios and Tiro are part of this, but Selvala, Explorer Returned (and parley cards in general) and Temple Bell are among this. These cards come in two flavors. Temple Bell for example does give everyone equal resources, but you decide the timing. This gives you a lot more control on when it's beneficial for you. Kynaios and Tiro as well as Selvala on the other hand give everyone resources, but you get more out of them. You get both of the Kings' abilities, you get mana and life from Selvala, your opponents have to choose/only get a card. Zedruu, the Greathearted is another card that falls in this catagory. She can give away cards that will affect the entire board, and you get profit from it. Nobody will complain when you donate something that works evenly across the board, after all. So what I would suggest is look for more cards that fall into this catagory. The kind of card that give some resources, just that you gain more of them. The only colour you lack is Black, which doesn't offer all that much to such a strategy anyway.
The trick would be finding a balance between the amount of hug you want to give, and which kinds of wincons you want to add. Kynaios and Tiro allow for some good ramp and refueling, so capitalize on that in order to support an underlying strategy. Meanwhile, use your grouphuggy cards to play the politics game. You can run a lot of wincons - whether it's a combo, something like Avenger of Zendikar + Craterhoof Behemoth (You are in colours that will easily give them haste) or even something like Assault Formation backing your Kings, you can do whatever you want. Just don't forget your fuel.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
There are two kinds of Group Hug, as far as I'm concerned.
On one hand, you have your typical Group Hug cards. These are cards that distribute cards evenly, which will usually lead to whoever gets to use them best winning the game. Think cards like Rite of Flourishing, Howling Mine, the works. This also includes something like Phelddagrif, which doesn't do all that much for you. These are bad cards in most games and good players will hate them, while bad players love them against them. Thing is that most of these cards give your opponents resources before you, leading to you helping them more than you are helping yourself.
Then, you have the actually interesting grouphug cards. Kynaios and Tiro are part of this, but Selvala, Explorer Returned (and parley cards in general) and Temple Bell are among this. These cards come in two flavors. Temple Bell for example does give everyone equal resources, but you decide the timing. This gives you a lot more control on when it's beneficial for you. Kynaios and Tiro as well as Selvala on the other hand give everyone resources, but you get more out of them. You get both of the Kings' abilities, you get mana and life from Selvala, your opponents have to choose/only get a card. Zedruu, the Greathearted is another card that falls in this catagory. She can give away cards that will affect the entire board, and you get profit from it. Nobody will complain when you donate something that works evenly across the board, after all. So what I would suggest is look for more cards that fall into this catagory. The kind of card that give some resources, just that you gain more of them. The only colour you lack is Black, which doesn't offer all that much to such a strategy anyway.
The trick would be finding a balance between the amount of hug you want to give, and which kinds of wincons you want to add. Kynaios and Tiro allow for some good ramp and refueling, so capitalize on that in order to support an underlying strategy. Meanwhile, use your grouphuggy cards to play the politics game. You can run a lot of wincons - whether it's a combo, something like Avenger of Zendikar + Craterhoof Behemoth (You are in colours that will easily give them haste) or even something like Assault Formation backing your Kings, you can do whatever you want. Just don't forget your fuel.
I mostly agree with you, except I'd break it into 3 categories, and they're more defined by your deck than by the card itself.
1 - benefit everyone "equally" for no real reason and no means of controlling it (rites of flourishing, font of mythos)
2 - benefit everyone, but yourself more (K&T, selvala - or maybe font of mythos but you're playing nekusar or something)
3 - benefit opponents and possibly also yourself, but with selective timing/targets (divining spirit, phelddagrif).
I think 1 and 3 are worlds apart. group hug for the sake of group hug is a non-strategy. It's like making a bear tribal deck - sure you can DO it, but you're not really building a strategy so much as finding a bunch of similar cards and sticking them together - although at least bears presumably can beat face even if they don't have any synergy. Category 3 can be very useful and powerful, either by deliberately politicking (I give you hippos, you kill his sphinx?) or by simply aiding the enemy of your enemy (I give you a bunch of hippos so you can trade with his attackers and not die).
I guess my only real point is DON'T RAG ON PHELDDAGRIF MATE.
There is mindless hug and then there is hug designed to exploit people.
Tricking people into leaving you alone and over-extending can be a very viable strategy.
The raidmother deck in my sig for example plays some mana doublers and draw-all cards.
It also conspires T&N to grab Avenger/Chancellor/Urabrask/Craterhoof
Can flash Purphoros/Omnath after Tempt with Vengeance/Collective Voyage
Can win with Insurrection/Comet Storm etc
Another thing you could do is drop a Splendid Reclamation after Obliterate.
I have seen a youtube video about a player who suggested making a Wildfire/Armageddon type deck that encourages players to ramp out a bunch of lands from their decks and then blow them all up... and that is a level of trolling I don't find appealing either.
Well there's your problem. You can't just give everyone at the table huge advantage with no repercussions and expect to win regularly.
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If combo should die before I wake I'll slide a Smokestack in every deck I play, roll in every shop wreck the Spirit of EDH.
K&T definitely falls into cat 2. I've never built the deck, but I've played against it, and it can get out of control quick if built correctly and doesn't rely on your opponents letting you slide. There is a slight degree of distracting the table, as it can help a player become threatening and draw the tables attention, but it doesn't need that to happen to be good, they help you get far enough ahead on resources that it doesn't matter. You ramp AND draw cards, your opponents have to choose. If they try to match pace on mana, you smother them in CA, if they try to match you on draw, you race past them on mana. Fill it with a few choice group hug spells and round it out with some control to ensure nobody gets too big, some win cons and good stuff (especially value) and you're set. Its the sort of group hug that looks at the aspect of giving everyone resources as an acceptable drawback for effects, not a main strategy, though its a drawback that can occasionally be beneficial as it can take pressure off of you (there's always a danger of turning the game into archenemy if you get too far ahead, and group hug can muddy the water enough to make the threat assessment a bit more challenging for your opponents, rather than just making it clear that they need to team up).
Thee's also another kind of group hug, bear hug, in which you run effects that grant everyone resources, and effects that punish players for it. Nekusar is the classic example, he gives everyone tons of cards but hurts your opponents for drawing cards (and discarding, which happens with all the wheels). Giving everyone creatures and then forcing them to attack, while making attacking you unprofitable, is another.
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Group hug to me can have two end-goals:
1. Make everyone at the table have fun, but ultimately don't try to win.
There are many people who just like the chaos of group hug, but aren't really trying to win. Out of the box, your deck isn't really positioned to win games very often. When this type of group hug deck wins, it can be a weird combo, or an alternate win condition (Azor's Elocutors?). The person playing this deck is not trying to win, but trying to have fun doing things differently.
2. Keep everyone alive until you can blow them all out.
These players are trying to win, but are using politics to make sure they aren't targeted, ganged up on, etc. My Zedruu the Greathearted deck plays like this. I help everyone out. I play prison effects so nobody bothers attacking me (Ghostly Prison won't stop you from losing, but when people want to tap out every turn to cast their spells, they will just attack someone else). I then distribute prison effects to everyone, give people life, clog up the game.
Then, when I'm ready to win, I can kill everyone.
How to win?
- Combo. This can be Kikki-Jikki, Mirror-Breaker and any number of cards it combos with. This can be Goblin Bombardment + Reveillark + Saffi Eriksdotter (or any number of combos involving Reveillark, Eriksdotter, Sun Titan, Karmic Guide and the new revolt creature). In 4 colors, you have a billion combos. Your deck would be stalling/politicking until you can kill everyone.
- Alternate Win Conditons - Felidar Sovereign. Biovisionary. Laboratory Maniac. These types of win conditions are good in that they kill all opponents at the same time, barring a Platinum Angel. Mill is another popular win condition.
- Stylishly. The weird win conditions that can't be disrupted easily, that kill everyone at the same time in a novel and fun way. For example, Hive Mind + a card with Epic (Enduring Ideal, for example. Nobody can cast spells, you tutor your enchantments that will win the game. Enchanted Evening + Opalescence + Parallax Wave - stack your triggers so that you exile everyone else's permanents permanently, attack with your 2/8 general 11 times.
The choice is yours. Group hug is not for everyone, but people who like it love it. I would suggest that you pick a win condition and put it into your deck. Make it unique. Make it hard to assemble.
Group hug, as many have already pointed out, can be done altruistically or subtly selfish, I tend to see them as Planeschase that universally alters the game board, test people's reaction skills and tolerance to unpredictability, which I welcomes in any game within and without MtG. Some decks definitely benefit more from a group hug than others, but if the player cannot handle the added effect he/she may not be able to work it out.
If I play a group hug deck, I'd at least have some wincon ready just to "surprise" people, which adds some fun without being malicious. Ultimately, MtG is for fun, and any mature player should be able to handle some level of group hug without flipping out (same with chaos deck). I don't recommend more than one group hug per game, however, since it would lack too much dynamics.
You are a mono-black player. No wonder you don't understand group hug.
The itehr posts are TL;DR but let me break it down.
Group hugs is simple. You make people happy, they don't attack you and then you pull out a win form nowhere. The prison cards make attacking you even less appealing because they are sinking their mana (AKA their resources) into targeting you when there are other players to hit. Unless there is a personal vendetta against you generally you are not appetizing to swing at.
Group hugs is an attempt to make everyone happy so you can sneak by and win.
Now that is not to be confused with Kingmaker which is a deck not designed to win but instead designed to make someone else win.
I personally don't understand why anyone wouldn't try to hate out group hug from the start. In a 4-player game, you have 3 opponents. So anything group hug does that is symmetrical helps you, yes, but it also helps your 3 opponents equally. That's 3 times more resources than you're accumulating. Add to that the fact that the group hug player built the deck specifically to function against that resource glut and it just doesn't make sense to me why the other three players would try to attack each other instead of the guy helping three opponents.
That being said, yes, combo and big, splashy finishers are the best ways to go. Insurrection in a creature-heavy meta or some kind of Tooth and Nail shenanigans. And if someone like me is at the table and you don't have the Prison effects, you're going to wish you had.
Step 1: give other players resources. Eg: Howling Mine, Mana Flare.
Step 2: incentivize players using their resources to go at each other. Eg: Ghostly Prison, Maze of Ith, a grip full of counters.
Step 3: punish players for the resources you gave them. Eg: Black Vise effects.
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I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
Typically from my experience within multiplayer is most experienced players will not let a group hug deck live for too long. Especially if its having adverse effects on them. Or giving an opponent advantage. I would agree with SlyDev1l in the sense you take out the guy who is giving way to many gifts. I know sneaky when I see it. Group hug decks can be sneaky gentlemen.
I started Grouphug because my old playgroup was really slow. I use the Grouphug deck to fast-forward the game to the mid to late game stages of the game. The kingmaker argument is true, but I want to enable flashy plays.
I've won the couple of times that I've used it. The big thing that tended to wipe them out was Treacherous Terrain, wipe them out with all the lands they've gotten. Rubblehulk is kind of like that but in reverse, big Creature that gets bigger the more lands you have, and you're bound to have a lot with how the deck works. Psychosis Seeker seems like something that could potentially be a win too, but it looks like the deck is mostly about nibbling at the opponents as opposed to a huge win condition. I'm not sure how it stacks up to the other decks with regards to win conditions, so it may just be a problem with that deck or it may be how the pre constructed decks are built for the most part.
As far as group hug in general goes, I think most covered it. You give everyone resources but ideally get more than anyone else, you discourage people from attacking you, and then you pull off a win with flashy things, or possibly using the resources you've given them against them. Though that last part makes Nekusar sound like a group hug deck which is kind of weird to think about.
The favourite group hug I have seen was Kruphix, God of Horizons. It used things like awakening and turbo card draw that because of Kruphix makes it asymetric
His win condition was high tide + turnabout and similar, into blue sun's zenith, First you use your almost infinite mana into draw your whole deck then start casting blue sun on everyone else.
You can combine it with mizzix and buy back cards and you just do the most rediclous of rediclous.
As someone who recently built a group hug deck (Ludevic / Kraum if anyone was curious) one of the strategies in a hug deck is to give your opponent's so many resources that they overextend themselves, while also leaving you - their sugar daddy - untouched for most of the game.
The way you win is to pick your turn and blow them out, by using their over-extended board states to punish them. In my case I tend to win by a timely late-game Cyclonic Rift at end of turn, backed up by countermagic. Then I drop a Psychosis Crawler and Molten Psyche for the win. All game they've been drawing lots of cards, and I usually have a Mana Flare in play. Those huge board states all get bounced and wheeled away for massive damage. Kraum and my swarm of "chump blocker" thopter tokens can then finish off any survivors.
What you want is a way to punish your opponents who have overused your hug resources.
I would start here if you want to build a "hug" deck. It's a little dated but it's a great example of what direction you can take. I've been playing this deck for a while and have started modifying it to use green and build a 4 color version.
There are two "main" types of multiplayer EDH in my experience:
Regular FFA where you only win when everyone else are dead
And pentagram EDH (traditionally played with 5 players) where you win when the 2 players opposite you in the pentagram are dead, and you aren't allowed to attack the other 2 players. This creates a very different political setting for group-hug and really makes them shine since you can still win, by enabling your "allies" to kill your target players for you.
A lot of it depends on what you're doing. The only real issue with group hug cards is when they're played to say "Don't attack me, bro." Everything else is fair game.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
The recommendation is to use the grouphug effects conservatively. And use politics liberally.
I have K&T built too. I removed most of the grouphug effects for more control ekements: counterspells and board wipes.
The main wincons are [[Managorger Hydra]] and [[Chasm Skulker]] dudes ([[Ishai]] too) creatures that only work once your opponents get rolling.
It's great beating face with them, and going "YOU allowed this to happen!"
The plan B is [[Psychosis Crawler]] (came with the deck), [[Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind]] and [[Arjun, the shifting flame]] to wheel into damage.
With grouphug, you must accept that you're going to lose more games than you win. BUT you're hopefully having a great time playing with your friends. And as lame as it sounds, that's the real win.
First, I would like to thank everybody for the wonderful and helpful replies. I truly appreciate it.
Quote from Dunharrow »
Group hug to me can have two end-goals:
1. Make everyone at the table have fun, but ultimately don't try to win.
2. Keep everyone alive until you can blow them all out.
(Please read the following in the voice of Wedge from The Mana Source and his worst cards ever videos)
In response to number one... why? Just why? Stop it. I threw up in my mouth a little there. Are you happy now... ugh. (end wedge voice)
In response to number 2, and a few people here wrote the same, it sounds to me like building a bad combo deck. Take a perfectly good combo deck, then dilute it with a bunch of group hug garbage that doesn't really help you. If you want an infinite turns deck, just build an infinite turns deck. If you want a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combo, just build a Kiki-Jiki based deck. Group Hug does nothing to help that kind of deck win more, or get out of a tough game state.
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I just feel like I have to tear the deck apart and rebuild it from the ground up. That makes me sad and regret buying it in the first place. I am glad I own several cards for my collection, but nothing about the group hug cards inspires me.
My Ghouldcaller Gisa deck likes to "sacrifice for profit," make a zombie token swarm, and with with Drain life effects as an alternate win condition.
Breya, Etherium Sculptor gets raw value by cheating big artifacts into play and sacrificing for value.
I have modified Evasive Maneuvers into a Roon blink deck. EtB triggers for value and some nice Bant control.
I used to have Merieke untap control, but with all the hexproof running around, this deck has died in my eyes. instead, I am looking to make my first Oloro deck. Back in the day, I used to love the UB Teachings control deck which splashed W. Having access to Identity Crisis, Dismantling Blow, and Debtors' Knell is a lot of fun.
I am desperate for a way to enjoy K&T of Meletis. If I wanted an Armageddon deck, I would play Kaalia of the Vast. She is great at cheating threats onto the table, then backing her up with an Armageddon is nasty. I have seen it and respect it. Feeding people lands, then blowing them up is just griefing. using your resources to put the game on fast forward and help your opponents win faster is not appealing at all. Giving free hugs without trying to win is vomit inducing. Category 2, where I get more value out of group hug is the one aspect that has my interest. Tempt with Discovery, Rite of the Raging Storm, my commander, and a few other cards seem alright. I guess I just have to rebuild the deck from the ground up and turn it into more of a "good stuff" deck. I don't know. I am still super frustrated with tihs commander/deck. I don't want to feel like it was a waste of money, but it does. I play with the intention of winning, and if I have to change the whole deck to do that, then what is the point?
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"Whatever style you wish to play, be it fast and frenzied or slow and tactical, the surest way to defeat your opponent consistently is by dominating him or her in the war of card advantage." - Brian Wiseman, April 1996
One thing that everyone left out IMO is mind set, group hug requires a certain mind set IMO that is hard to explain but I will try. That mindset IMO isn't always out to win the fastest way or the best way possible, but is instead looking to enjoy the ride and help others as it were. Given your reaction to Dunharrow's number one,I don't think you have that mindset and so yeah for you I think the deck was a waste of money.
Yes. I have fun playing magic with friends, and don't need to give people things to make that fun happen. I don't need to win on turn 4 either.
My fun at commander comes from playing the game. going through the motions.
Turn One
Land drop. maybe EtB tapped land, maybe a fetch land, maybe play a one drop utility or ramp card. Not just sol ring, but Wayfarer's Bauble works as well.
Turn Two
Second land drop followed up by ramp. Maybe a signet or rampant growth. If i don't have one of those, then a utility card would be nice. Scroll Rack, Withered Wretch, True Believer, or maybe an equipment.
Turn Four
I probably want to be playing some card draw by now, my commander, an enchantment like Grave Pact, or an early board wipe if needed.
Turn Five
This is the heart of the game. Now we should have five or more cards in hand, 6 or more mana at our disposal to play some bombs, and are reacting to what threats our opponents have.
Turns six through end game
End of turns I like mana sinks that give long term advantage, responding to threats, stopping degenerate combos when possible with grave yard hate and/or instant speed spot removal, and finding a way to win.
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When I saw K&T of Meletis, the first thing that came to mind was Elspeth. how she as a champion on Bant, and the Sun's Champion on Theros. I thought of Boros on Ravnica and the soldier/military theme and how that can splash with the "Honor" of Bant and heroes of Theros. I imagined Colossus of Akros as a flavorful win condition. When I saw the deck list, i was excited to see some cool legends to finally add to my collection. Before tearing the deck apart and building what I originally imagined though... I wanted to see if I can make the original theme of the deck work.
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"Whatever style you wish to play, be it fast and frenzied or slow and tactical, the surest way to defeat your opponent consistently is by dominating him or her in the war of card advantage." - Brian Wiseman, April 1996
I have always had an issue with Hug decks in that they require people to not want to murder you to some degree. I sat down with an opposing hug deck a week ago and the person to my left was just screaming for him to be 3v1ed the whole game.
Hug in my mind just requires you to sort of be some sort of unknown deck or to be doing things people just dont care about. In my mind its a strategy that only seems to work if you are some unknown player playing bad cards or something.
I just have not ever seen hug really work outside of newer players with odd jank cards at which point its more of like unknown player playing budget stuff surprise than Hug actually working.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
2. Keep everyone alive until you can blow them all out.
In response to number 2, and a few people here wrote the same, it sounds to me like building a bad combo deck. Take a perfectly good combo deck, then dilute it with a bunch of group hug garbage that doesn't really help you. If you want an infinite turns deck, just build an infinite turns deck. If you want a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combo, just build a Kiki-Jiki based deck. Group Hug does nothing to help that kind of deck win more, or get out of a tough game state.
It is easy to paint yourself into a corner here. Question is, what kind of win conditions are not combo? I sympathize with you that the deck is really light on win-cons (all of the precons are, really), but the discussion goes to including more win cons and your stance is that doing so changes the deck too much. What I can say is that if any win condition that is outside what you’d call Combo involves combat damage, then it’s a poor fit for the general. These “group hug” mechanisms are about changing the pace of the game away from combat.
Here’s what I mean. Consider all the elements of the turn – untap, draw, land drop, main, combat. This general doubles two of those for you (draw, land drop), and either one of those for opponents. This dilutes combat by comparison, also main phase, but mostly combat. Creatures will spend more time, relatively speaking, either summoning sick or stuck in hand.
By contrast, combat oriented decks are often seen to alter the pace of the game in the opposite way. More commonly, they will deny mana, the ability to untap mana, stop drawing, so on, which has the effect of giving more combats per unit of other aspects of the turn. But that’s observed because there are just more cards that deny than grant extra stuff. If there were a general that doubled combats, even doubled them for everyone, that would definitely be considered an aggressive general. The closest I can think of is Karona, False God and Avatar of Slaughter. Those don’t seem to be considered “group hug” cards, but they do give extra stuff.
Bottom line, you will want to focus on some non-combat win condition. If playing big creatures, Eldrazi, etc, in greater number than opponents is how you’re used to winning, it takes some adjustment. Certain decks win with creatures on tempo, which most everyone considers “aggro”. But there are also decks that win with creatures on resources (cards, mana) rather than on tempo. Lots of players identify that as “Goodstuff” or even “Control” instead. The “group hug” mechanic is not a good fit for either of those.
Taking a few ideas from cards in the deck, maybe some of them offer some more win potential:
Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa – He gives your opponents’ creatures evasion against each other also, for what it matters. More ways for the pain to start mounting on their end.
What I will say also is that just about every Zedruu or similar deck I have seen wins most of its games from one card – Vicious Shadows. It makes sense in this setup to give players more creatures and cards in hand. The card will win the game on its own in this kind of play environment. A distant second is Insurrection.
As far as the general goes, I really like it because there are certain effects that just need failsafe consistency to work anywhere near correctly, and group hug is one of them. Rites of Flourishing is one of my favorite tutor targets with this strategy, and having a better version of it in the command zone is enough to set the game up on its own. You wouldn’t need much more effects of that type in the deck to function well, and you could fill the rest of it with some counterspells, instant speed removal, or anything else more appropriate for more advanced games. You still want to keep pace with your draw and put some permanents down so you don’t have to discard though, which is why you still will see a lot of enchantments.
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For starters, out of the box, it doesn't have any tutors to find it's prison cards. There are plenty of games where you don't even draw one prison card, let alone multiple. So when people write about "prison lock" I have to ask what they are talking about? What prison lock? Additionally, a good portion of the deck is dedicated to helping your opponents accelerate their lands, which would help them pay for the prison effects you do draw and play. That seems counter productive if you ask me.
Then the concept of group hug in the first place baffles me. I am normally a mono black player. I ten to attack your resources and try to limit them and fight over them. Why on this green earth would I WANT to help you accelerate them? Why is that desirable for anyone? When try to play the deck, I give my opponents free stuff, then they kill me with all the free stuff I gave them. No big surprise how that happened.
Why did I buy the deck? to try something different. To try something new. To have a deck without black, which is a color in pretty much every other deck I own.
===========================================
What do I like about the deck?
1) The flavor of the commander. I love the art and story in Theros block and the Commander itself. At worst, I will love keeping it in my binder for years to come, even if I can't get this deck to work for me. The same is true for the other legendary creatures found in the deck.
2) I like the idea of getting the most out of all four color and having them work together. Using G to simultaneously ramp and fix your other colors, U to draw cards, W for removal, and R on the attack.
3) The cards which encourage my opponents to leave me alone and attack each other seem interesting.
===============================
I have never won a game with this deck, and notice the following trend in each of its losses:
1) No true win condition of end goal.
2) A complete lack of hard defenses. Prison cards and encouraging other people not to attack you doesn't actually stop them from attacking you, targeting you with spells, or finishing you off once the game becomes a duel... or if you sit down and are playing a duel as a casual pick up game withing for another table to finish so you can jump in for a 5 player game.
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Sure, it would be easy enough to just put a bunch of tutors and Mind Over Matter to make a Temple Bell infinite draw combo, but is that really the point? To play defense and combo out? I don't think so. i could jsut build a mono blue combo deck if that is what I wanted.
I have seen a youtube video about a player who suggested making a Wildfire/Armageddon type deck that encourages players to ramp out a bunch of lands from their decks and then blow them all up... and that is a level of trolling I don't find appealing either.
==============================
Thank you for reading my rant and questions and hopefully replying. I want to find a way to make this deck work and not feel like a waste of money. I just don't understand the attraction or philosophy of group hug. I have never lost to it and have never won with it. What's the point? What am I missing? I don't really want to break the whole deck apart and build something completely different from scratch using completely different cards. I might as well give up in that case.
On one hand, you have your typical Group Hug cards. These are cards that distribute cards evenly, which will usually lead to whoever gets to use them best winning the game. Think cards like Rite of Flourishing, Howling Mine, the works. This also includes something like Phelddagrif, which doesn't do all that much for you. These are bad cards in most games and good players will hate them, while bad players love them against them. Thing is that most of these cards give your opponents resources before you, leading to you helping them more than you are helping yourself.
Then, you have the actually interesting grouphug cards. Kynaios and Tiro are part of this, but Selvala, Explorer Returned (and parley cards in general) and Temple Bell are among this. These cards come in two flavors. Temple Bell for example does give everyone equal resources, but you decide the timing. This gives you a lot more control on when it's beneficial for you. Kynaios and Tiro as well as Selvala on the other hand give everyone resources, but you get more out of them. You get both of the Kings' abilities, you get mana and life from Selvala, your opponents have to choose/only get a card.
Zedruu, the Greathearted is another card that falls in this catagory. She can give away cards that will affect the entire board, and you get profit from it. Nobody will complain when you donate something that works evenly across the board, after all. So what I would suggest is look for more cards that fall into this catagory. The kind of card that give some resources, just that you gain more of them. The only colour you lack is Black, which doesn't offer all that much to such a strategy anyway.
The trick would be finding a balance between the amount of hug you want to give, and which kinds of wincons you want to add. Kynaios and Tiro allow for some good ramp and refueling, so capitalize on that in order to support an underlying strategy. Meanwhile, use your grouphuggy cards to play the politics game. You can run a lot of wincons - whether it's a combo, something like Avenger of Zendikar + Craterhoof Behemoth (You are in colours that will easily give them haste) or even something like Assault Formation backing your Kings, you can do whatever you want. Just don't forget your fuel.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
1 - benefit everyone "equally" for no real reason and no means of controlling it (rites of flourishing, font of mythos)
2 - benefit everyone, but yourself more (K&T, selvala - or maybe font of mythos but you're playing nekusar or something)
3 - benefit opponents and possibly also yourself, but with selective timing/targets (divining spirit, phelddagrif).
I think 1 and 3 are worlds apart. group hug for the sake of group hug is a non-strategy. It's like making a bear tribal deck - sure you can DO it, but you're not really building a strategy so much as finding a bunch of similar cards and sticking them together - although at least bears presumably can beat face even if they don't have any synergy. Category 3 can be very useful and powerful, either by deliberately politicking (I give you hippos, you kill his sphinx?) or by simply aiding the enemy of your enemy (I give you a bunch of hippos so you can trade with his attackers and not die).
I guess my only real point is DON'T RAG ON PHELDDAGRIF MATE.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Tricking people into leaving you alone and over-extending can be a very viable strategy.
The raidmother deck in my sig for example plays some mana doublers and draw-all cards.
It also conspires T&N to grab Avenger/Chancellor/Urabrask/Craterhoof
Can flash Purphoros/Omnath after Tempt with Vengeance/Collective Voyage
Can win with Insurrection/Comet Storm etc
Another thing you could do is drop a Splendid Reclamation after Obliterate.
Well there's your problem. You can't just give everyone at the table huge advantage with no repercussions and expect to win regularly.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
Thee's also another kind of group hug, bear hug, in which you run effects that grant everyone resources, and effects that punish players for it. Nekusar is the classic example, he gives everyone tons of cards but hurts your opponents for drawing cards (and discarding, which happens with all the wheels). Giving everyone creatures and then forcing them to attack, while making attacking you unprofitable, is another.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
1. Make everyone at the table have fun, but ultimately don't try to win.
There are many people who just like the chaos of group hug, but aren't really trying to win. Out of the box, your deck isn't really positioned to win games very often. When this type of group hug deck wins, it can be a weird combo, or an alternate win condition (Azor's Elocutors?). The person playing this deck is not trying to win, but trying to have fun doing things differently.
2. Keep everyone alive until you can blow them all out.
These players are trying to win, but are using politics to make sure they aren't targeted, ganged up on, etc. My Zedruu the Greathearted deck plays like this. I help everyone out. I play prison effects so nobody bothers attacking me (Ghostly Prison won't stop you from losing, but when people want to tap out every turn to cast their spells, they will just attack someone else). I then distribute prison effects to everyone, give people life, clog up the game.
Then, when I'm ready to win, I can kill everyone.
How to win?
- Combo. This can be Kikki-Jikki, Mirror-Breaker and any number of cards it combos with. This can be Goblin Bombardment + Reveillark + Saffi Eriksdotter (or any number of combos involving Reveillark, Eriksdotter, Sun Titan, Karmic Guide and the new revolt creature). In 4 colors, you have a billion combos. Your deck would be stalling/politicking until you can kill everyone.
- Alternate Win Conditons - Felidar Sovereign. Biovisionary. Laboratory Maniac. These types of win conditions are good in that they kill all opponents at the same time, barring a Platinum Angel. Mill is another popular win condition.
- Stylishly. The weird win conditions that can't be disrupted easily, that kill everyone at the same time in a novel and fun way. For example, Hive Mind + a card with Epic (Enduring Ideal, for example. Nobody can cast spells, you tutor your enchantments that will win the game. Enchanted Evening + Opalescence + Parallax Wave - stack your triggers so that you exile everyone else's permanents permanently, attack with your 2/8 general 11 times.
It can even be as simple as Time Warp + Eternal Witness + Venser, the Sojourner.
The choice is yours. Group hug is not for everyone, but people who like it love it. I would suggest that you pick a win condition and put it into your deck. Make it unique. Make it hard to assemble.
Look at this deck: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/edh-kynaios-and-tiro-landfall-combo/. The poster explains his infinite landfall combo. It's not group hug, but uses the general well.
This general wants something Unique. Find your unique win condition.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
If I play a group hug deck, I'd at least have some wincon ready just to "surprise" people, which adds some fun without being malicious. Ultimately, MtG is for fun, and any mature player should be able to handle some level of group hug without flipping out (same with chaos deck). I don't recommend more than one group hug per game, however, since it would lack too much dynamics.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
The itehr posts are TL;DR but let me break it down.
Group hugs is simple. You make people happy, they don't attack you and then you pull out a win form nowhere. The prison cards make attacking you even less appealing because they are sinking their mana (AKA their resources) into targeting you when there are other players to hit. Unless there is a personal vendetta against you generally you are not appetizing to swing at.
Group hugs is an attempt to make everyone happy so you can sneak by and win.
Now that is not to be confused with Kingmaker which is a deck not designed to win but instead designed to make someone else win.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
That being said, yes, combo and big, splashy finishers are the best ways to go. Insurrection in a creature-heavy meta or some kind of Tooth and Nail shenanigans. And if someone like me is at the table and you don't have the Prison effects, you're going to wish you had.
Step 2: incentivize players using their resources to go at each other. Eg: Ghostly Prison, Maze of Ith, a grip full of counters.
Step 3: punish players for the resources you gave them. Eg: Black Vise effects.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
As far as group hug in general goes, I think most covered it. You give everyone resources but ideally get more than anyone else, you discourage people from attacking you, and then you pull off a win with flashy things, or possibly using the resources you've given them against them. Though that last part makes Nekusar sound like a group hug deck which is kind of weird to think about.
His win condition was high tide + turnabout and similar, into blue sun's zenith, First you use your almost infinite mana into draw your whole deck then start casting blue sun on everyone else.
You can combine it with mizzix and buy back cards and you just do the most rediclous of rediclous.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
The way you win is to pick your turn and blow them out, by using their over-extended board states to punish them. In my case I tend to win by a timely late-game Cyclonic Rift at end of turn, backed up by countermagic. Then I drop a Psychosis Crawler and Molten Psyche for the win. All game they've been drawing lots of cards, and I usually have a Mana Flare in play. Those huge board states all get bounced and wheeled away for massive damage. Kraum and my swarm of "chump blocker" thopter tokens can then finish off any survivors.
What you want is a way to punish your opponents who have overused your hug resources.
Nicol Bolas Dragon Dick
Hanna, Ship's Navigator Heart-attack Stax
Oona, Queen of the Fae Fairy Dance
Vhati Il-Dal Tree of Woe
Scion of the Ur-Dragon Durgensturm
Jolrael, Empress of Beasts Jamuraa's Army
Liliana, Heretical Healer Rise from your Graves and Proliferate
Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Angelic Judgment [
There are two "main" types of multiplayer EDH in my experience:
Regular FFA where you only win when everyone else are dead
And pentagram EDH (traditionally played with 5 players) where you win when the 2 players opposite you in the pentagram are dead, and you aren't allowed to attack the other 2 players. This creates a very different political setting for group-hug and really makes them shine since you can still win, by enabling your "allies" to kill your target players for you.
On phasing:
I have K&T built too. I removed most of the grouphug effects for more control ekements: counterspells and board wipes.
The main wincons are [[Managorger Hydra]] and [[Chasm Skulker]] dudes ([[Ishai]] too) creatures that only work once your opponents get rolling.
It's great beating face with them, and going "YOU allowed this to happen!"
The plan B is [[Psychosis Crawler]] (came with the deck), [[Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind]] and [[Arjun, the shifting flame]] to wheel into damage.
With grouphug, you must accept that you're going to lose more games than you win. BUT you're hopefully having a great time playing with your friends. And as lame as it sounds, that's the real win.
[Semi-Competitive] GWUB "NO" GWUB 89%
Thrasios and Tymna aggro-control voltron-combo
"No machinations, no puppet strings, no plots. Just pure, sweeping death."
—Tasigur, the Golden Fang
(Please read the following in the voice of Wedge from The Mana Source and his worst cards ever videos)
In response to number one... why? Just why? Stop it. I threw up in my mouth a little there. Are you happy now... ugh. (end wedge voice)
In response to number 2, and a few people here wrote the same, it sounds to me like building a bad combo deck. Take a perfectly good combo deck, then dilute it with a bunch of group hug garbage that doesn't really help you. If you want an infinite turns deck, just build an infinite turns deck. If you want a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker combo, just build a Kiki-Jiki based deck. Group Hug does nothing to help that kind of deck win more, or get out of a tough game state.
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I just feel like I have to tear the deck apart and rebuild it from the ground up. That makes me sad and regret buying it in the first place. I am glad I own several cards for my collection, but nothing about the group hug cards inspires me.
My Ghouldcaller Gisa deck likes to "sacrifice for profit," make a zombie token swarm, and with with Drain life effects as an alternate win condition.
My Mizzix of the Izmagnus is a spell slinger deck. It can roll through spells and kill with Guttersnipe or make tokens with Talrand, Sky Summoner/Young Pyromancer/Docent of Perfection. It can use Mizzix Mastery/Past in Flames to go big with Storm or just raw value of recasting good spells to win.
Breya, Etherium Sculptor gets raw value by cheating big artifacts into play and sacrificing for value.
I have modified Evasive Maneuvers into a Roon blink deck. EtB triggers for value and some nice Bant control.
I used to have Merieke untap control, but with all the hexproof running around, this deck has died in my eyes. instead, I am looking to make my first Oloro deck. Back in the day, I used to love the UB Teachings control deck which splashed W. Having access to Identity Crisis, Dismantling Blow, and Debtors' Knell is a lot of fun.
I am desperate for a way to enjoy K&T of Meletis. If I wanted an Armageddon deck, I would play Kaalia of the Vast. She is great at cheating threats onto the table, then backing her up with an Armageddon is nasty. I have seen it and respect it. Feeding people lands, then blowing them up is just griefing. using your resources to put the game on fast forward and help your opponents win faster is not appealing at all. Giving free hugs without trying to win is vomit inducing. Category 2, where I get more value out of group hug is the one aspect that has my interest. Tempt with Discovery, Rite of the Raging Storm, my commander, and a few other cards seem alright. I guess I just have to rebuild the deck from the ground up and turn it into more of a "good stuff" deck. I don't know. I am still super frustrated with tihs commander/deck. I don't want to feel like it was a waste of money, but it does. I play with the intention of winning, and if I have to change the whole deck to do that, then what is the point?
My fun at commander comes from playing the game. going through the motions.
Turn One
Land drop. maybe EtB tapped land, maybe a fetch land, maybe play a one drop utility or ramp card. Not just sol ring, but Wayfarer's Bauble works as well.
Turn Two
Second land drop followed up by ramp. Maybe a signet or rampant growth. If i don't have one of those, then a utility card would be nice. Scroll Rack, Withered Wretch, True Believer, or maybe an equipment.
Turn Three
Third land drop followed up with my commander, Cultivate, Phyrexian Arena, evoke a Mulldrifter, Burnished Hart, or maybe a Sword.
Turn Four
I probably want to be playing some card draw by now, my commander, an enchantment like Grave Pact, or an early board wipe if needed.
Turn Five
This is the heart of the game. Now we should have five or more cards in hand, 6 or more mana at our disposal to play some bombs, and are reacting to what threats our opponents have.
Turns six through end game
End of turns I like mana sinks that give long term advantage, responding to threats, stopping degenerate combos when possible with grave yard hate and/or instant speed spot removal, and finding a way to win.
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When I saw K&T of Meletis, the first thing that came to mind was Elspeth. how she as a champion on Bant, and the Sun's Champion on Theros. I thought of Boros on Ravnica and the soldier/military theme and how that can splash with the "Honor" of Bant and heroes of Theros. I imagined Colossus of Akros as a flavorful win condition. When I saw the deck list, i was excited to see some cool legends to finally add to my collection. Before tearing the deck apart and building what I originally imagined though... I wanted to see if I can make the original theme of the deck work.
Hug in my mind just requires you to sort of be some sort of unknown deck or to be doing things people just dont care about. In my mind its a strategy that only seems to work if you are some unknown player playing bad cards or something.
I just have not ever seen hug really work outside of newer players with odd jank cards at which point its more of like unknown player playing budget stuff surprise than Hug actually working.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
It is easy to paint yourself into a corner here. Question is, what kind of win conditions are not combo? I sympathize with you that the deck is really light on win-cons (all of the precons are, really), but the discussion goes to including more win cons and your stance is that doing so changes the deck too much. What I can say is that if any win condition that is outside what you’d call Combo involves combat damage, then it’s a poor fit for the general. These “group hug” mechanisms are about changing the pace of the game away from combat.
Here’s what I mean. Consider all the elements of the turn – untap, draw, land drop, main, combat. This general doubles two of those for you (draw, land drop), and either one of those for opponents. This dilutes combat by comparison, also main phase, but mostly combat. Creatures will spend more time, relatively speaking, either summoning sick or stuck in hand.
By contrast, combat oriented decks are often seen to alter the pace of the game in the opposite way. More commonly, they will deny mana, the ability to untap mana, stop drawing, so on, which has the effect of giving more combats per unit of other aspects of the turn. But that’s observed because there are just more cards that deny than grant extra stuff. If there were a general that doubled combats, even doubled them for everyone, that would definitely be considered an aggressive general. The closest I can think of is Karona, False God and Avatar of Slaughter. Those don’t seem to be considered “group hug” cards, but they do give extra stuff.
Bottom line, you will want to focus on some non-combat win condition. If playing big creatures, Eldrazi, etc, in greater number than opponents is how you’re used to winning, it takes some adjustment. Certain decks win with creatures on tempo, which most everyone considers “aggro”. But there are also decks that win with creatures on resources (cards, mana) rather than on tempo. Lots of players identify that as “Goodstuff” or even “Control” instead. The “group hug” mechanic is not a good fit for either of those.
Taking a few ideas from cards in the deck, maybe some of them offer some more win potential:
Akroan Horse – Give your opponents more creatures, then abuse that with stuff like Dingus Staff or Repercussion, or Suture Priest. Or just make the creatures more impactful with stuff like Gahiji, Honored One, similar. Maybe hold out for a big Insurrection.
Wave of Reckoning and Blasphemous Act – Will do nicely with the above if you include the Repercussion, Dingus Staff effects. Also consider Incite Rebellion
Reverse the Sands – Include one or two cards with a lot of self-pain, Volcano Hellion or similar, and then lean on more life distribution cards.
Treacherous Terrain – Solid win-con in the deck, with a lot of support in these colors. Similar are Acidic Soil, Price of Progress, Manabarbs, Primal Order, Overabundance, Citadel of Pain, Power Surge.
Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa – He gives your opponents’ creatures evasion against each other also, for what it matters. More ways for the pain to start mounting on their end.
What I will say also is that just about every Zedruu or similar deck I have seen wins most of its games from one card – Vicious Shadows. It makes sense in this setup to give players more creatures and cards in hand. The card will win the game on its own in this kind of play environment. A distant second is Insurrection.
As far as the general goes, I really like it because there are certain effects that just need failsafe consistency to work anywhere near correctly, and group hug is one of them. Rites of Flourishing is one of my favorite tutor targets with this strategy, and having a better version of it in the command zone is enough to set the game up on its own. You wouldn’t need much more effects of that type in the deck to function well, and you could fill the rest of it with some counterspells, instant speed removal, or anything else more appropriate for more advanced games. You still want to keep pace with your draw and put some permanents down so you don’t have to discard though, which is why you still will see a lot of enchantments.