This card just splits me in two. I want to like it, but there is something about that 3 cost in the activated ability that just makes me shudder. Do I risk the turn 3, 4, or 5 play? Targeting ramp is like targeting every other spell the player was going to cast - it's tempo.
I see it showing up in 3 zones of deck building:
1. Decks that can recur artifacts easily. I'll admit, seems like a good include here because if you lose the tempo, it'll come back again later.
2. RW decks. Those colours struggle with ramp and so I could see risk being taken here. However, opponents should know this too and make denial plays.
3. Everything else. Here....you could run it...but there are better cards to run.
I think it's a mediocre card. 6 mana is way too much. It's over two turns... but you are also giving up two turns to get two extra lands. Even with recursion, I don't like it too much.
I like it in Boros Artifacts decks, but haven't had much success in anything else with it. Probably also playable in Mono Blue but I dunno, I've never played mono blue with Hart in it. As far as comparisons I'd say Hart<Explorer<Knight.
I think Knight of the White Orchid is the best of the three (though it has its flaws), but Burnished Hart is better than Oreskos Explorer.
I personally run it in quite a few decks. I also don't run much artifact ramp in a lot of decks. I actually look at it more of a mid game play. Early game, the 3 & 3 cost is tough but as the game is going on it is easier to cast it and crack it. I also like it as a decent recursion target to get more lands.
If you look at it like a Farhaven Elf and a Yavimaya Dryad together, the 6 mana over two turns isn't that bad. It is obviously worse (there is no denying that), but it does help.
So, overall it is slow, but by no means is it bad. I have been cutting it back a little bit, but certain builds do like it and overall I include it in many non-green decks. In green decks there are better options.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I like it in my mono-red decks since it works nicely to ramp up to a more meaningful play, and isn't always dead late game when Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle is ready to party.
It is honestly a bit of a trap-card in a more competitive meta. It looks nice to ramp, but the immediate mana-investment of 6cmc to Explosive Vegetation, susceptible to removal if you have to wait a turn, makes it pretty bad. Especially when you could spend 5 mana on a gilded lotus and immediately have access to 3 colored mana. Yes it is a 2-for-1 permanent effect, but it is also very slow. Some tables can be making game-winning plays on turn-3/4 while you are waiting to untap and sac' the hart.
That's not to say it is bad. Some decks outside of green really need the ramp. Most black decks like upp'ing the number of swamps for cabal coffers. Some decks with creature recursion like having self-sac'ing dudes. Some decks just run off of great 2-for-1 effects.
I would say that there is probably a direct relation between the # of turn-1/2/3 plays a deck has vs the likelihood that burnished hart is "good" for the deck.
Not running it in any of my decks. The investment is just too huge and the pace too slow, even outside of green.
For said mana i'd rather drop a Gilded Lotus, Thran Dynamo or Caged Sun or spread it out for Signets, Talismans, Thought Vessel and Fellwar Stone.
As for other creature options outside green my ranking is:
1. Solemn Simulacrum - Can go in any deck, unconditional, goes to battlefield, card draw.
2. Kor Cartographer - Unconditional, goes to battlefield, can fetch a dual including Plains landtype.
3. Knight of the White Orchid - Conditional, goes to battlefield, can fetch a dual including Plains as a landtype.
4. Pilgrim's Eye - Can go in any deck, unconditional, goes to hand (basically no ramp!).
5. Oreskos Explorer - Conditional, goes to hand, can fetch multiple duals including Plains as a landtype.
I have been on the brink of removing it from mono red jaya (used to be ashling) but the truth is it has been good almost 100% of the time. It is just not dangerous enough to remove. Adding some recursion, valakut or mimic vat and it has even more potential.
Note that my meta is not competitive.
Terrible in competitive metas, but in slower metas it's not that bad for nongreen decks. Casual decks tend to not run Mass land destruction but do tend to pack more artifact removal, so having your ramp card fetch out lands (that are basics no less) tends to be safer than running only mana rocks.
it's an artifact, which needs to be considered in some builds of marchesa, the black rose.
i do run it, and so far made me all the mana i ever needed (either right at the start of a game with mana crypt or after a desperate armageddon once.
edit: forgot to mention, but on turn 3 it's quite safe to play it. who is going to waste removal on this? unless you fear a t4 wrath.
I run it in most mono colored shells, as fetching two lands straight to the battlefield is relatively unprecedented in non-green decks. Its best in black and red decks, though blue decks also have the advantage of running at instant speed (meaning you can hold on to the hart to crack him on a turn where counters weren't needed). I also find him extremely useful in Kozilek, as ramping two lands is particularly big game, regardless of the delay, in a deck packing Eldrazi.
As an additional bonus for certain black decks, the act that you sacrifice him gives solid synergy with Grave Pact and friends. I run him in Meren of Clan Nel Toth to great success.
Still more, the fact that it's colorless and fetches two lands means it's the king of budget mana fixing for 3+ color decks.
I think that in non-competitive metas its pretty good. If you play it turn 3 and get lucky and don't have it removed then you get ahead on mana in the mid game. Its also a pretty awesome to ramp into as well. People have mentioned that its bad, comparing it to cards that are powerful in the format. Its not amazing but its a solid part of the ramp package for non-green decks. It doesnt compare well to Thran Dynamo or Land Tax, but what cards can?
Heres a list of my random thoughts and uses for the card:
Mono Black: Although I'm not currently playing a mono-black list there is the synergy between Burnished Hart and Cabal Coffers. Black also has so many uses for more swamps.
Boros: I think boros legends want to be playing some sort of tempo/aggro strategy and Hart is actually bad here. Combined with white's plains fetching abilities you dont need Hart in boros.
If you are playing any creature or artifact recursion, it can help you keep up with the rampies. I really like it in Daretti, as it can serve multiple functions (protects Daretti, gets mountains for Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle, can be welded into something terrifying or simply Possibility Stormed)
It never makes the cut for me. My reasoning used to be that Farhaven Elf is good, and so 2x Farhaven Elf on one card must be great. Not so much. Turns out that I want to spend 3 mana on that no more than one time per game, just on concerns of tempo. It doesn’t really matter how card efficient it is.
There are about 6-8 artifacts at >3cmc that make the cut before it, and about 20 or so non-artifact cards if I am in Green. The only reason I’d run it is if I really wanted it to be an artifact that gets sacrificed, such as for Daretti or something like that.
EDH BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant - Lurking Zombies. GBG Sapling of Colfenor - Forest Growth and Destruction. RWU Zedruu the Greathearted - Blinking and trading. GWB Teneb the Harvester - Enchantments, you lose life I gain life. RRR Neheb the Eternal - Ping people for mana burn.
I love it. My cousin can't stand it.
Kamahl is his main deck though — like probably as many hours as Galspanic has in Kamahl, so he obviously has a very ultilitarian perspective when it comes to ramp.
I like it because I have a general aversion to playing any ramp at all unless it's just ridiculous.
I'd rather have rocks for MLD or add draw spells, which are more significant late game.
Hart is neat because it fits in anything (obviously) and you can waste a creature slot on it (if you're the type of person that keeps track of that sort of thing) rather than a sorcery/instant slot. Great logic, I know.
It also occasionally triggers things like Lifecrafter's Bestiary or Grave Pact, can be fetched with creature/artifact tutors, and is a reanimation target.
I didn't really like hart or other ramp cards for Saskia, which is more or less RW.
I built it as aggro/control though and felt it threw off the tempo. I think it depends on what you want to do. If you have a higher curve and aren't worried about assembling a small army it would probably be a lot better.
lands stay, while artifacts can be blown up easily
It really depends on the types of decks you are playing against.
Lands can be blown up just as easily, and someone running MLD may avoid playing artifact hate that would blow up their own rocks.
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I would assume it is only rarely or never seen in competitive metagames, but in the typical EDH metagame, it's a fine card. I usually at least consider it when building decks not including G, but whether or not it makes the cut depends on a lot of factors. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. Obviously it is better in decks that focus on artifact recursion or on duplicating activated abilities. As I mentioned in another thread, I also like to combine the Hart with Gift of Immortality. That puts opponents in a conundrum: Do they waste resources on something that slow and relatively non-threatening, or do they leave it around and let me get a lot of value over the course of a few turns? I consider it a win/win either way, frankly. It's also great with Skullclamp, of course.
As mentioned earlier, it really depends on the shape of your metagame.
Do players tend to go for tempo plays like removing a turn three hart in a four-player game? Would an empty turn three and four put you considerably behind the table on board pressure? If the answer for both is no, the card most certainly could use a place in every non-green deck. If you're in a non-MLD meta, it's basically a staple in nongreen decks.
This card just splits me in two. I want to like it, but there is something about that 3 cost in the activated ability that just makes me shudder. Do I risk the turn 3, 4, or 5 play? Targeting ramp is like targeting every other spell the player was going to cast - it's tempo.
I see it showing up in 3 zones of deck building:
1. Decks that can recur artifacts easily. I'll admit, seems like a good include here because if you lose the tempo, it'll come back again later.
2. RW decks. Those colours struggle with ramp and so I could see risk being taken here. However, opponents should know this too and make denial plays.
3. Everything else. Here....you could run it...but there are better cards to run.
On a side note - for RW decks, how does Burnished Hart compare to cards like Oreskos Explorer or Knight of the White Orchid? Does it trump either? both? should I try run all three?
and discuss.
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I think Knight of the White Orchid is the best of the three (though it has its flaws), but Burnished Hart is better than Oreskos Explorer.
I personally run it in quite a few decks. I also don't run much artifact ramp in a lot of decks. I actually look at it more of a mid game play. Early game, the 3 & 3 cost is tough but as the game is going on it is easier to cast it and crack it. I also like it as a decent recursion target to get more lands.
If you look at it like a Farhaven Elf and a Yavimaya Dryad together, the 6 mana over two turns isn't that bad. It is obviously worse (there is no denying that), but it does help.
So, overall it is slow, but by no means is it bad. I have been cutting it back a little bit, but certain builds do like it and overall I include it in many non-green decks. In green decks there are better options.
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It is honestly a bit of a trap-card in a more competitive meta. It looks nice to ramp, but the immediate mana-investment of 6cmc to Explosive Vegetation, susceptible to removal if you have to wait a turn, makes it pretty bad. Especially when you could spend 5 mana on a gilded lotus and immediately have access to 3 colored mana. Yes it is a 2-for-1 permanent effect, but it is also very slow. Some tables can be making game-winning plays on turn-3/4 while you are waiting to untap and sac' the hart.
That's not to say it is bad. Some decks outside of green really need the ramp. Most black decks like upp'ing the number of swamps for cabal coffers. Some decks with creature recursion like having self-sac'ing dudes. Some decks just run off of great 2-for-1 effects.
I would say that there is probably a direct relation between the # of turn-1/2/3 plays a deck has vs the likelihood that burnished hart is "good" for the deck.
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EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
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For said mana i'd rather drop a Gilded Lotus, Thran Dynamo or Caged Sun or spread it out for Signets, Talismans, Thought Vessel and Fellwar Stone.
As for other creature options outside green my ranking is:
1. Solemn Simulacrum - Can go in any deck, unconditional, goes to battlefield, card draw.
2. Kor Cartographer - Unconditional, goes to battlefield, can fetch a dual including Plains landtype.
3. Knight of the White Orchid - Conditional, goes to battlefield, can fetch a dual including Plains as a landtype.
4. Pilgrim's Eye - Can go in any deck, unconditional, goes to hand (basically no ramp!).
5. Oreskos Explorer - Conditional, goes to hand, can fetch multiple duals including Plains as a landtype.
Not even considering these work as ETB and are easily exploited.
Other than that there are still things like Land Tax, Weathered Wayfarer, Tithe, Gift of Estates, Expedition Map, Armillary Sphere, Wayfarer's Bauble and Mycosynth Wellspring i'd propably all run instead of Burnished Hart...
Note that my meta is not competitive.
RJaya Ballard, Task Mage Mono Red Control Decklist
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UBGisa and Geralf Tribal Aggro Decklist
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RWUBruse Tarl, Boorish Herder and Kraum, Ludovic's Opus Equipments Decklist
WBAthreos, God of Passage Reanimate/Goodstuff Decklist
I also have a Hart in my Olivia deck and Jaya deck. I think that's it for me at the moment.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
i do run it, and so far made me all the mana i ever needed (either right at the start of a game with mana crypt or after a desperate armageddon once.
edit: forgot to mention, but on turn 3 it's quite safe to play it. who is going to waste removal on this? unless you fear a t4 wrath.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
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Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
As an additional bonus for certain black decks, the act that you sacrifice him gives solid synergy with Grave Pact and friends. I run him in Meren of Clan Nel Toth to great success.
Still more, the fact that it's colorless and fetches two lands means it's the king of budget mana fixing for 3+ color decks.
Heres a list of my random thoughts and uses for the card:
Black/White Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim control: Combines with Emeria Shepherd to ramp and recur creatures.
Mono Blue Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur: This deck has almost as much ramp as a Kozilek deck. Hart gives me islands when I need lots of blue mana AND helps with Caged Sun and Gauntlet of Power.
Mono Black: Although I'm not currently playing a mono-black list there is the synergy between Burnished Hart and Cabal Coffers. Black also has so many uses for more swamps.
Boros: I think boros legends want to be playing some sort of tempo/aggro strategy and Hart is actually bad here. Combined with white's plains fetching abilities you dont need Hart in boros.
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GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
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There are about 6-8 artifacts at >3cmc that make the cut before it, and about 20 or so non-artifact cards if I am in Green. The only reason I’d run it is if I really wanted it to be an artifact that gets sacrificed, such as for Daretti or something like that.
Journeyer's Kite is one other way to grab lands.
BGU Sidisi, Brood Tyrant - Lurking Zombies.
GBG Sapling of Colfenor - Forest Growth and Destruction.
RWU Zedruu the Greathearted - Blinking and trading.
GWB Teneb the Harvester - Enchantments, you lose life I gain life.
RRR Neheb the Eternal - Ping people for mana burn.
I love it. My cousin can't stand it.
Kamahl is his main deck though — like probably as many hours as Galspanic has in Kamahl, so he obviously has a very ultilitarian perspective when it comes to ramp.
I like it because I have a general aversion to playing any ramp at all unless it's just ridiculous.
I'd rather have rocks for MLD or add draw spells, which are more significant late game.
Hart is neat because it fits in anything (obviously) and you can waste a creature slot on it (if you're the type of person that keeps track of that sort of thing) rather than a sorcery/instant slot. Great logic, I know.
It also occasionally triggers things like Lifecrafter's Bestiary or Grave Pact, can be fetched with creature/artifact tutors, and is a reanimation target.
I didn't really like hart or other ramp cards for Saskia, which is more or less RW.
I built it as aggro/control though and felt it threw off the tempo. I think it depends on what you want to do. If you have a higher curve and aren't worried about assembling a small army it would probably be a lot better.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
it also self sacrifices, triggers landfall, is an artifact, lots of things going with this little stag
lands stay, while artifacts can be blown up easily (after the sacrifice) also work for other effects (for each plains,for each land)
nice for controlly mono white builds,or red
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It really depends on the types of decks you are playing against.
Lands can be blown up just as easily, and someone running MLD may avoid playing artifact hate that would blow up their own rocks.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
Do players tend to go for tempo plays like removing a turn three hart in a four-player game? Would an empty turn three and four put you considerably behind the table on board pressure? If the answer for both is no, the card most certainly could use a place in every non-green deck. If you're in a non-MLD meta, it's basically a staple in nongreen decks.