MTG Salvation

What began as a sub-theme in a Beard Tribal deck as a way to use actually good cards whilst being, well, a Beard Tribal deck, I'm looking to build a deck based around playing my opponents stuff.

This can be via Clone effects, cards that allow me to cast my opponents things off of the top of their deck or from within their hand - Grenzo, Havoc Raiser, Daxos of Meletis, Gonti, Lord of Luxury, Mindclaw Shaman - or cards that allow me to exchange control of stuff - Puca's Mischief, Confusion in the Ranks. I'm also open to Animate Dead effects that can target opponents graveyards.

What I'm not really interested in is straight theft (Control Magic), or cards such as Bribery that allow you to paw through an entire deck for maximum brainless value. I'm also not after pure chaos and would like to use less of the global effects such as Confusion in the Ranks.

Wondering what you guys would suggest as a general as well as card suggestions. The perfect general in my mind would be a multi-colour Grenzo. As is the leading contender is Zedruu, but I'm hoping to find something less common and without the group hug / pure chaos reputation

How would Villainous Wealth fit into your idea? Is it too much Bribery or?
There's also Hedonist's Trove, which doubles as (expensive) grave hate.

Jeleva is unfortunately spoken for in my EDH group.

Villainous Wealth is perfect. Hedonists trove is solid as well. Looks like I have another colour to add to blue and red

If you're looking for a BUG Commander, might I suggest Mimeoplasm? You can exile your opponent's cards and steal their abilities. And heck, throw in his best buddy Necrotic Ooze while you're at it.

Quote from JDviant »

At GBUR your commander options are pretty limited to people who are just there for colours. I was thinking Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder might help, but he only triggers on spells from your hand.

Drop B and you have Riku of Two Reflections.

At those colours you could go for a Vial Smasher the Fierce + Thrasios, Triton Hero combination. While neither truly follows your theme, they do allow for some nasty tricks to compliment your theft tricks with. Kydele is also an option, but that would depend on just how much you think you'll draw each turn.

Sofar the focus colours are red, blue and black. Green has only villainous wealth, and while I do like that card, Grenzo by himself is a better argument for red even without the other red stuff.

I have been considering Riku. Normally he's way too goodstuffy, but a Riku deck with the limitation that it only wins with other peoples cards could be very interesting

It does sound like it could be an interesting deck to play, at a healthy powerlevel. If you're going for Grixis a few more obvious additions would be Nightveil Specter and Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver. Chainer, Dementia Master is another card that would let you 'play' your opponents' stuff. As for a commander, in Grixis colours, if Jeleva is spoken for, maybe Sedris, the Traitor King? It would allow you to generate some value if you're going in a creature heavy direcction.

I personally like Lazav, Dimir Mastermind for this kind of deck. I mean you lose red which I guess kind of sucks but all of the best things are in U/B anyway.

I love cards like Spelltwine, Sepulchral Primordial, Dilluvian Primordial, Jace's Mindseeker, etc. I remember Spelltwine hitting an opposing Spelltwine to hit a recurssion card to get back my Sepulchral Primordial to hit an opposing Dilluvian Primordial to grab a Rite of Replication. It was the freaking nuts. I ended up casting like 1 spell (Spelltwine) and got like, god, I don't know, like 50cmc worth of cards? lol so cool.

Lazav is fun because he straight copies any creature that dies which is nice because, honestly, activated abilities aren't usually super relevant in any EDH game I've ever played. However things like Trample, Flying, Vigilant, and a decent body are nice. Being able to Murder some 7/7 flying demon only for Lazav to become that demon and go on the Voltron beat down is super fun. That's actually how I've built my Lazav deck.

Its essentially a Voltron deck that uses control elements (Grisly Spectacle, Psychic Strike) spells to get things into the 'yard for Lazav to copy and the theft spells for mana efficient value. Its honestly probably my most favorite deck to play. Its not oppressive and it wins in fairly unconventional ways. I can't recommend it enough.

Can we talk about Praetor's Grasp? It's a the demonic tutor you've been looking for.

T1: Ancient Tomb, Lotus Petal, Show and Tell: Put Shared Fate into play. Have fun table.

I would suggest Lord of Tresserhorn for your commander. If you've been taking your opponents' stuff, you can feed them to him for his sac requirement, and if you can mess with their ands, you can mitigate the opponent draws two part.

If you can remember the upkeep triggers, Vesuvan Doppelganger can change when you need it to.

Evil Twin is fun as you can copy someones commander and kill it afterwards. Clone Legion could be interesting, especially if you have a way to copy that spell. Endless Whispers will not guarantee that you get creatures after their death, but would potentially end up with everyone playing with someone elses creatures.

Some other arguments for including green would be if you like Altered Ego, Progenitor Mimic or just need a bit more ramp. Maybe Damia, Sage of Stone as general in that case as you would not doing much graveyard shenanigans as The Mimeoplasm would require, unless you really want to include red.

I'm making a Jeleva deck and while you're not going to use her, there are many similarities. Blatant Thievery is a great way to tip the scale in your favor. Shaman's Trance is also a great card for stealing spells, but it requires you to have more colors in your mana production.

Quote from cyberium_neo »

I'm making a Jeleva deck and while you're not going to use her, there are many similarities. Blatant Thievery is a great way to tip the scale in your favor. Shaman's Trance is also a great card for stealing spells, but it requires you to have more colors in your mana production.

Shaman's Trance is a wonderful idea. Basically a small tweaking of the manabase for a few more lands that produce mana of any color, throw in a chromatic lantern, and you are basically set to go.

The Planeswalker's enchantment cycle:

• Planeswalker's Mirth
  
• Planeswalker's Mischief
  
• Planeswalker's Scorn
  
• Planeswalker's Fury
  
• Planeswalker's Favor

Mischief, in particular, lets you cast the instant/sorcery you find

How has no one mentioned chancellor of the spires?

Grenzo is hard to make work. I find that 9 times out of 10 goading is the better option unless you're playing against something creatureless.

I really like Mindclaw Shaman, Extract from Darkness, Sepulchral Primordial, Diluvian Primordial, Shapeshifter's Marrow, Wild Ricochet (if that counts), Gonti, Lord of Luxury (he's actually worth building an entire deck around), Spelljack and Kheru Spellsnatcher, and especially Treacherous Urge. It's one of those cards that's awful in every other format, but really shines in commander. It's errata'd to "sacrifice it at the beginning of the next end step" so you can EoT it.

Nobody mentioned Commandeer or Æthersnatch?

Thats because those are theft spells, which I want to avoid because of feelbads. I'm looking more for copy or exchange, though I don't mind casting from opponents hands.

Quote from cyberium_neo »

I'm making a Jeleva deck and while you're not going to use her, there are many similarities. Blatant Thievery is a great way to tip the scale in your favor. Shaman's Trance is also a great card for stealing spells, but it requires you to have more colors in your mana production.

Do you know a card that lets you play things from your graveyard? Without an effect like that, Shaman's Trance seems pretty bad

Quote from Anachronity »

Grenzo is hard to make work. I find that 9 times out of 10 goading is the better option unless you're playing against something creatureless.

I really like Mindclaw Shaman, Extract from Darkness, Sepulchral Primordial, Diluvian Primordial, Shapeshifter's Marrow, Wild Ricochet (if that counts), Gonti, Lord of Luxury (he's actually worth building an entire deck around), Spelljack and Kheru Spellsnatcher, and especially Treacherous Urge. It's one of those cards that's awful in every other format, but really shines in commander. It's errata'd to "sacrifice it at the beginning of the next end step" so you can EoT it.

These are great suggestions. Is Gonti really playable as a general? I've been looking for a monoblack general that isn't oppressive or generic

Quote from Lithl »

The Planeswalker's enchantment cycle:

• Planeswalker's Mirth
  
• Planeswalker's Mischief
  
• Planeswalker's Scorn
  
• Planeswalker's Fury
  
• Planeswalker's Favor

Mischief, in particular, lets you cast the instant/sorcery you find

These are quite cool. Not sure if they're what this deck wants outside of the blue one, but they seem like just the kind of silly jank cards you can build a deck around. The sorcery speed restrictions are crushing though, so many cool cards get ruined by that limitation

Shaman's Trance + Past in Flames / Sedris, the Traitor King.

Quote from jsNZ »

Quote from cyberium_neo »

I'm making a Jeleva deck and while you're not going to use her, there are many similarities. Blatant Thievery is a great way to tip the scale in your favor. Shaman's Trance is also a great card for stealing spells, but it requires you to have more colors in your mana production.

Do you know a card that lets you play things from your graveyard? Without an effect like that, Shaman's Trance seems pretty bad

Yawgmoth's Will, Snapcaster Mage, although that may not interact the same way as I think it would. I will consult the rule forum.

EDIT: Confirmed, YawgWin and similar effects work, although Snapcaster requires a target in your own GY so it would not work with others. I guess Crucible of Worlds can similarly let you play lands from other players' GY.

Quote from jsNZ »

These are great suggestions. Is Gonti really playable as a general? I've been looking for a monoblack general that isn't oppressive or generic.

I haven't tried it myself, but it seems like a nice way to tuck away a super-secret-untouchable hand. If you build him you want artifact blink effects like Voyager Staff and Conjurer's Closet as well as a bunch of graveyard recursion (Postmortem Lunge, Corpse Dance, Undying Evil, Animate Dead, and other cheap "exile it afterwards" effects are good, since you can just exile him to your command zone. Even Disentomb and the like aren't bad for this). You'll also want Cabal Coffers and lots of mana rocks to fight the commander tax and take advantage of the "mana of any type" clause he has on casting spells he grabs.

One large advantage is that you can handle artifacts and enchantments if you manage to grab the right things.

Has nobody suggested Sen Triplets? You get access to one of the most powerful "theft" effects in the game on your commander, and you still get to run all of the other U/B effects that let you play other people's cards.

I like your style. I made a Sakashima The Impostor deck that focuses on copying my opponent's stuff, with a subtheme of using cards from their deck. Some cards that you might be interested in:
Telemin Performance
Stolen Goods
Perplexing Chimera (might be to close to stealing)
Acquire
Bribery
Knowledge Exploitation
Jace, Architect of Thought (if you can manage to use his ultimate)