Undoubtedly true, but that's an argument to be made for ANY cards, not just planeswalkers in general.
Cards can be suggested to improve a deck, but depending on the playgroup perspective(to use a parallel), things change around that value. Competitive groups that prep for side events at PTGs would ranks cards vastly different than a pauper EDH group.
I think DtDB is trying his best to keep things as flexible as possible for each planeswalker in an effort to justify the rankings(i.e., "Sarkhan's useful in 10% of situations, but Jace is useful 75% of the time"). Thus far, one must admit that the walkers listed have a pretty narrow range of effectiveness, particularly with what still have to be ranked.
There is white recursion for equipments, some. (17 cards for any artifact, 2 for equipment in particular, and Second Sunrise, which is sui generis because it's more like Bad Mike for everything but only once.) Not much to the battlefield, though. I'd argue she makes Auriok Salvagers obsolete outside of a blink deck (which probably wouldn't want the Salvagers anyway).
Regarding Nissa's ult, the other problem is, if you want to target opponents' lands, why not just run Green Kamahl?
The other Nissa actually has a really good ult. (It's basically Sphinx's Revelation.) A plant token is weak, but at three mana, what do you expect for a +1?
The flip for Arlinn is kind of interesting, it seems to be insurance against Doubling Season abuse. (Because, seriously, giving every creature essentially a Soul's Fire on the tap would get ridic fast.)
Lili only does creatures to be in-pie. While black does get casting spells from the graveyard, black does not normally get recursion of noncreature cards. (Card type-focused blocks can make an exception, hence Fortuitous Find and Grim Discovery.)
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I find it weird that you think Ob is the worst of the Commander planeswalkers. I would've thought Nahiri. (Mostly because she tries to fit into a Voltron deck but can't herself attack. But she still has use in the 99.)
Nahiri is a sweet commander. Firstly, because white is probably the best color to defend planeswalkers, since it's got oodles of boardwipes, not to mention humility, land wipes, etc. Second, because she really helps define an archetype (stax-quipment) compared to the other commander planeswalkers, sans daretti. Teferi is basically combo/stasis (which only define a small number of cards in the deck) and that's about it, Freyalise does ok things but doesn't really define an archetype, and ob nix is about the same.
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Once more, not surprised to see Ajani show up. He was a great guy to have back when I played Standard, so you may not be far off on your statement of him fitting more into 60 card decks, or duel EDH even.
I would have thought Caller of Beer would be higher, honestly...sure, 6 mana is an investment, but it's one that green can easily pay, and getting more and more creatures into play is all a part of the gameplan. I'll assess my own deck and use of CoB, but that's a ranking I contest a bit.
I would have thought Caller of Beer would be higher, honestly...sure, 6 mana is an investment, but it's one that green can easily pay, and getting more and more creatures into play is all a part of the gameplan. I'll assess my own deck and use of CoB, but that's a ranking I contest a bit.
He was close to being bumped up but outside of Mono Green I can't find much room for him and even then I think there are situations where he's cuttable.
Liliana of the Dark Realms is pretty much useful in Mono Black only however she's actually pretty mandatory while Garruk isn't.
You could put Garruk in more decks that aren't mono colored but adding extra colors makes me think he would be cut more often, since he's cuttable from mono green already
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Fair points all around...as I said, I'll have to see about getting Garruk Beer-belly out and seeing how he fares in the next EDH game. I have some cards that may replace him if my findings parallel yours.
Also confessing that I thought Venser would be higher as well, but your reasonings are sound for why not. Entry added, so we'll see what happens.
Also confessing that I thought Venser would be higher as well, but your reasonings are sound for why not. Entry added, so we'll see what happens.
I admit that Venser was real close to breaking the top twenty. The only issue was I feel like every other card deserves the slot more. Lots of people love Venser but I wanted to grade on my own merits so I cut him from the twenty.
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I'd say:
I'm surprised venser wasn't lower tbh. His -2 is often useless for commander and his +2 is only useful in fairly specific decks. Even in my superfriends brago he was not impressive, because the only thing really impressive about him is his ult, which is meaningless, especially since even doubled he can't ult immediately. I guess in fairness also he's pretty hilarious with gilded drake. But I think to really make bank off him you need to be playing good blink targets AND be playing a control/lockdown deck that can defend him adequately, which is pretty niche.
Baby jace also doesn't excite me. Draw 3 for 3 would be good, but rarely does anyone play 4 for draw 3, and jace can easily eat a stray damage and be divination. He was pretty good in brago superfriends, fwiw, but that'd be the only deck I've wanted to use him in.
Both chandras are pretty good and flexible, all their abilities are useful unlike jace or venser, I would have put both of them above jace and venser.
Koth I am unimpressed by. The biggest boon red has for planeswalkers is the ability to run stuff like jokulhaups et all to leave them uncontested, and Koth needs mountains to work. His ult is good but far from unbeatable - no one runs fireball in commander, so while the flexibility is nice the actual rate of damage isn't that impressive - and aside from haups red sucks at protecting walkers. Plus he basically must be mono-red (or pull a sick blood moon ftw in 5c? seems baller). If you're playing him as a ritual for his -2 maybe that's worth it sometimes, but then you've still gotta be playing a bunch of mountains over utility lands. I just can't imagine any deck a 4 mana ritual would be worth it in.
Sorin is great. Not like tier-1 crazy, but just a lot of value in a token deck. Like gideon he's reliably permanent emblem value, a stream of tokens, or both if you can defend him. But here's the rub - why is gideon aoz ranked at 47 while sorin makes 28? They both make tokens, they both make emblems. sorin does + to make tokens, but he also has lower loyalty and makes a weaker (though cheaper) emblem, and makes smaller tokens (though lifelink helps a bit). Sorin is probably stronger overall, but he's also 2 colors, and crucially he's in black, which gives access to a lot of powerful cards compared to mono-white. White is more likely to run gideon than BW to run sorin I think, because white is starved for good playable cards. In fact I've run gideon in a large number of my white decks while Sorin I've only played in a few BW decks, maybe only one, I'd have to check. Considering how similar of cards they are in terms of power level and abilities, I don't think it makes much sense to have them be this far apart in the rankings.
Nahiri is unexciting. Her +2 is bleh, her -2 is ok but only works once usually and isn't worth a card, and her ult, while fairly powerful, is very beatable. Even getting something like ulamog it's not even that hard to recover from, and that's for one player, let alone 3. Doesn't scale to multiplayer at all imo.
Nissa is strong. way better than koth since koth's +1 makes your mountain vulnerable to removal and only ramps for 1, while his -2 while decent usually guarantees he'll never live to ult, which is the primary reason to play him. I wouldn't have nissa anywhere near koth tbh.
Lili is really cool but realistically not super exciting except for having one of the most ridiculous ultimates ever. Seems reasonably placed, if anything she'd probably be lower.
Thanks for your input on it.
Some clarification on my part.
I put venser as high as I did because of how many different decks he fits in. Not because he's mandatory in any of them (Hardly any walkers are) but in the decks he does fit he seems solid. Bouncing Perplexing Chimera or Gilded drake in bounce or fixing a mana vault/Grim Monolith or even reseting a walker gives him room in plenty of decks.
I agree that Baby Jace isn't exciting but being at 3 mana and getting you a quicker start helps a lot. If left alone he could draw you plenty of cards and you're getting more answers to keep him alive until then. Not an exciting card by any means but I still think he's solid.
I may undervalue both Chandras. My only real issue with either of them is they haven't been around as long and I've seen them far less. I've had a lot less exposure to them so far but from what I see they are pretty good. If I revisit this in the future they likely (And a few other positions) will have changed. But for now I can't see them breaking the top twenty. Maybe beating Jace but not sure about Venser...yet
Koth is another example of exposure getting him more fame. While not super exciting like the top twenty I feel like if he's left alone for one turn the game can change a lot. In just one turn he can make the game a pain in the butt to win and has the option to ramp up a ton. Netting a bunch of mana and then casting something like Jokulhaups is a little backwards since Koth works well with lands but is totally doable to win the game with a walker constantly ticking up.
Nahiri should only really be in decks with one of those massive finishers but I didn't rate her that high because of the ult. She increases loyalty faster than most walkers and both abilities are pretty relevant. Opponents may not want to tap that gilded lotus for mana if it can be exiled or attack with that creature. I like the mind games she brings and the ability to just knock someone out gave her a boost
Finally Gideon Vs Sorin: Both of them have similar feels in how both can make pumping up emblems and tokens but the difference I found was Sorin sticks around after one emblem while Gideon will often die. Sorin ticks up with making a token while Gideon doesn't. Sorin has a decent last ability while Gideon does not. Sure not all of those things are big and honestly it's not too much of a difference but it was reason enough for me that Gideon felt obsolete to Sorin and why I didn't find much reason to put him higher. Kinda like how Tirel is just worse than Sun's Champion.
I really enjoy the discussion you bring though so I appreciate the comment.
I'm looking forward to announcing what happens next after the final rankings are in
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I've always found Venser, the Sojourner's plus marvelously versatile. At worst, you target a land that comes back untapped. Most of the time you'll have something worst blinking: a permanent with an EtB or LtB effect, a permanent that doesn't untap easily on its own ( such as Mana Vault), a permanent an opponent stole, an aura you want to get on something with shroud/hexproof, a permanent you want to exclude form the sweeper you're about to cast, etc.
I've always found Venser, the Sojourner's plus marvelously versatile. At worst, you target a land that comes back untapped. Most of the time you'll have something worst blinking: a permanent with an EtB or LtB effect, a permanent that doesn't untap easily on its own ( such as Mana Vault), a permanent an opponent stole, an aura you want to get on something with shroud/hexproof, a permanent you want to exclude form the sweeper you're about to cast, etc.
I think that every card has a slot somewhere (Except Tibalt). I mentioned earlier that just because a card is good in a deck doesn't make the card good.
Ancestral Statue isn't a good card...but it's insane in Animar. I think that plenty of these walkers have slots in other decks but I don't want to look at every single case for every card.
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Also really enjoyed reading your ratings of the planeswalkers. Took me some notes.
A bit surprised Nissa, Vital Force hasn't shown up yet. Wouldn't be surprised if she was like #20.
It's the walker I've played most since she's come out. She's not breaking the top ten but man have I been impressed with her so far.
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Please do the poll at the bottom. Will help me a ton to see what others think on the ban list and make another article in the future with all your thoughts. Comments are greatly encouraged as it's an article I want to be mostly written by you guys, since I'm extremely lazy.
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
At some point I think fastbond is a safe card to unban when compared to what other cards are legal. The obvious interactions are fastbond + crucible, which is a 2 card combo (3 if you considers fetch/strip mine/zuran orb) that:
- Doesn't go infinite.
- Doesn't win on the spot.
- It's enchantment + artifact, so it's more difficult to assemble than regular 2 card combos.
Sure fastbond is a card that can put you 2 turns ahead when drawn in the first turns but mana crypt and sol ring already do that, and with wheels and the likes can go out of control, but yawgmoths will, ad nauseam, and other broken things can do the same and worse. Fastbond is a card that will definitely let you combo out easier when drawing a lot of cards.
In a normal environment, fastbond will be a better exploration, a good card in the 98/99, and it won't be actively searched actively via tutors like a tooth and nail or something that can win you the game on the spot.
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Legacy Decks:
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander: GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG GW The Captain WG GWB Karadores BWG GWU Jenara UWG UWB Oloro-DD BWU
(1) is it really more powerful than the already degenerate stuff like sol ring, mana crypt, or even mana vault? I feel like no.
(2) it doesn't seem like the kind of thing that's going to end the game quickly and obnoxiously, like fast mana can.
(3) given that most casual games last a long time, is it even clear that it's reliably better than something like phyrexian arena? Sure, it costs a few mana, but arena doesn't require mana every turn to use and doesn't force you to keep a full grip to work, and while it's good it's certainly very far from busted. Plus there's so many effects in commander that let you draw a bazillion cards.
I see the MoM combo in the comments, I can see how that'd be concerning. But honestly if I sat down at a table and one dude played mana crypt and another guy played library, I'm pretty sure I'd be a lot more worried about the dude with the mana crypt.
Obviously I'm speaking from ignorance here as I've never played with or against the card.
Koth of the Hammer is a weird one. I liked playing him when Prime Time was legal, but without easy access to a bunch of mountains (and, unfortunately, while every color gets "search your library for My Basic Land Type", I never see it in red, or blue for that matter), he becomes more complicated. That said, he's the closest you'll get to a red High Tide, and monored in general should use him. (Or something like Kalemne or Mayael where the mana curve will be unusually high.)
Venser, the Sojourner also lets you get one permanent around your own wipes, and it has use in Bant Enchantress (with constellation cards) Bant Landfall (in addition to Bant Blink). Even Bant Tokens can use a second hit of something like Deranged Hermit. It even lets you put a Pacifism on an opponent's Sigarda, but then, so does Sun Titan. But blink has always been a Johnny mechanic, so...
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
(1) is it really more powerful than the already degenerate stuff like sol ring, mana crypt, or even mana vault? I feel like no.
(2) it doesn't seem like the kind of thing that's going to end the game quickly and obnoxiously, like fast mana can.
(3) given that most casual games last a long time, is it even clear that it's reliably better than something like phyrexian arena? Sure, it costs a few mana, but arena doesn't require mana every turn to use and doesn't force you to keep a full grip to work, and while it's good it's certainly very far from busted. Plus there's so many effects in commander that let you draw a bazillion cards.
I see the MoM combo in the comments, I can see how that'd be concerning. But honestly if I sat down at a table and one dude played mana crypt and another guy played library, I'm pretty sure I'd be a lot more worried about the dude with the mana crypt.
Obviously I'm speaking from ignorance here as I've never played with or against the card.
Which is stronger in Vintage, Library or Mana Crypt? cEDH is close to Vintage at this point.
Spells are already so cheap, I feel that the constant gas from Library overwhelms the mana advantage from Crypt. Isn't having tons of cards equivalent to having tons of mana in the combo cEDH decks?
Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Feels pretty awesome that Sunspeth is gonna be in the top 10. That's the very fist 'walker I ever put into a deck. And yeah, Tezz iz a pretty good bet for numero uno.
Both are multicolored, which makes it harder to fit them in decks at all.
Daretti II has a plus ability that can somehow protect him. And his minus is a sorcery-speed Putrefy, when you sac an artifact.
Yes, the ultimate is likely to win you the game, but that's nothing to plan on, right?
So, he goes into B/R stax? Play him and Damnation/Jokulhaups next turn?
Xenagos gives you a great Ritual effect in decks like Prossh or Hazezon (after you played them). But besides that? It's only good, if you already have some creatures. If not, you pay 4 for a 2/2.
Sure, drop Doubling Season and ultimate him right away. In magical Christmasland, that's good!
No reason to run doubling season with any of my top ten. The article for them will be up soon and you can see why I have them above the others
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Hey guys so I've actually moved on from commander on to 60 card decks so I don't have any commander decks.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
I like the list so far. The only thing is that Daretti Red is more dominating then you give credit for. The fact that he can be your Commander is a major boost in my humble opinion. he also doesn't need Doubling Season or any real board state to go off. I definitely think he is top ten material.
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Cards can be suggested to improve a deck, but depending on the playgroup perspective(to use a parallel), things change around that value. Competitive groups that prep for side events at PTGs would ranks cards vastly different than a pauper EDH group.
I think DtDB is trying his best to keep things as flexible as possible for each planeswalker in an effort to justify the rankings(i.e., "Sarkhan's useful in 10% of situations, but Jace is useful 75% of the time"). Thus far, one must admit that the walkers listed have a pretty narrow range of effectiveness, particularly with what still have to be ranked.
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
Regarding Nissa's ult, the other problem is, if you want to target opponents' lands, why not just run Green Kamahl?
The other Nissa actually has a really good ult. (It's basically Sphinx's Revelation.) A plant token is weak, but at three mana, what do you expect for a +1?
The flip for Arlinn is kind of interesting, it seems to be insurance against Doubling Season abuse. (Because, seriously, giving every creature essentially a Soul's Fire on the tap would get ridic fast.)
Lili only does creatures to be in-pie. While black does get casting spells from the graveyard, black does not normally get recursion of noncreature cards. (Card type-focused blocks can make an exception, hence Fortuitous Find and Grim Discovery.)
On phasing:
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
http://diestodoomblade.blogspot.com/2017/01/ranking-planeswalkers-5-40-31.html
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
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I would have thought Caller of Beer would be higher, honestly...sure, 6 mana is an investment, but it's one that green can easily pay, and getting more and more creatures into play is all a part of the gameplan. I'll assess my own deck and use of CoB, but that's a ranking I contest a bit.
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
He was close to being bumped up but outside of Mono Green I can't find much room for him and even then I think there are situations where he's cuttable.
Liliana of the Dark Realms is pretty much useful in Mono Black only however she's actually pretty mandatory while Garruk isn't.
You could put Garruk in more decks that aren't mono colored but adding extra colors makes me think he would be cut more often, since he's cuttable from mono green already
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
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Youtube:
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This is also the last chance to enter the giveaway I have on the blog to win some cards.
http://diestodoomblade.blogspot.com/2017/01/ranking-planeswalkers-6-30-21.html
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
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Youtube:
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Also confessing that I thought Venser would be higher as well, but your reasonings are sound for why not. Entry added, so we'll see what happens.
EDH decks: 1. RGWMayael's Big BeatsRETIRED!
2. BUWMerieke Ri Berit and the 40 Thieves
3. URNiv's Wheeling and Dealing!
4. BURThe Walking Dead
5. GWSisay's Legends of Tomorrow
6. RWBRise of Markov
7. GElvez and stuffz(W)
8. RCrush your enemies(W)
9. BSign right here...(W)
I admit that Venser was real close to breaking the top twenty. The only issue was I feel like every other card deserves the slot more. Lots of people love Venser but I wanted to grade on my own merits so I cut him from the twenty.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
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I'm surprised venser wasn't lower tbh. His -2 is often useless for commander and his +2 is only useful in fairly specific decks. Even in my superfriends brago he was not impressive, because the only thing really impressive about him is his ult, which is meaningless, especially since even doubled he can't ult immediately. I guess in fairness also he's pretty hilarious with gilded drake. But I think to really make bank off him you need to be playing good blink targets AND be playing a control/lockdown deck that can defend him adequately, which is pretty niche.
Baby jace also doesn't excite me. Draw 3 for 3 would be good, but rarely does anyone play 4 for draw 3, and jace can easily eat a stray damage and be divination. He was pretty good in brago superfriends, fwiw, but that'd be the only deck I've wanted to use him in.
Both chandras are pretty good and flexible, all their abilities are useful unlike jace or venser, I would have put both of them above jace and venser.
Koth I am unimpressed by. The biggest boon red has for planeswalkers is the ability to run stuff like jokulhaups et all to leave them uncontested, and Koth needs mountains to work. His ult is good but far from unbeatable - no one runs fireball in commander, so while the flexibility is nice the actual rate of damage isn't that impressive - and aside from haups red sucks at protecting walkers. Plus he basically must be mono-red (or pull a sick blood moon ftw in 5c? seems baller). If you're playing him as a ritual for his -2 maybe that's worth it sometimes, but then you've still gotta be playing a bunch of mountains over utility lands. I just can't imagine any deck a 4 mana ritual would be worth it in.
Sorin is great. Not like tier-1 crazy, but just a lot of value in a token deck. Like gideon he's reliably permanent emblem value, a stream of tokens, or both if you can defend him. But here's the rub - why is gideon aoz ranked at 47 while sorin makes 28? They both make tokens, they both make emblems. sorin does + to make tokens, but he also has lower loyalty and makes a weaker (though cheaper) emblem, and makes smaller tokens (though lifelink helps a bit). Sorin is probably stronger overall, but he's also 2 colors, and crucially he's in black, which gives access to a lot of powerful cards compared to mono-white. White is more likely to run gideon than BW to run sorin I think, because white is starved for good playable cards. In fact I've run gideon in a large number of my white decks while Sorin I've only played in a few BW decks, maybe only one, I'd have to check. Considering how similar of cards they are in terms of power level and abilities, I don't think it makes much sense to have them be this far apart in the rankings.
Nahiri is unexciting. Her +2 is bleh, her -2 is ok but only works once usually and isn't worth a card, and her ult, while fairly powerful, is very beatable. Even getting something like ulamog it's not even that hard to recover from, and that's for one player, let alone 3. Doesn't scale to multiplayer at all imo.
Nissa is strong. way better than koth since koth's +1 makes your mountain vulnerable to removal and only ramps for 1, while his -2 while decent usually guarantees he'll never live to ult, which is the primary reason to play him. I wouldn't have nissa anywhere near koth tbh.
Lili is really cool but realistically not super exciting except for having one of the most ridiculous ultimates ever. Seems reasonably placed, if anything she'd probably be lower.
Narset's position seems reasonable.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Some clarification on my part.
I put venser as high as I did because of how many different decks he fits in. Not because he's mandatory in any of them (Hardly any walkers are) but in the decks he does fit he seems solid. Bouncing Perplexing Chimera or Gilded drake in bounce or fixing a mana vault/Grim Monolith or even reseting a walker gives him room in plenty of decks.
I agree that Baby Jace isn't exciting but being at 3 mana and getting you a quicker start helps a lot. If left alone he could draw you plenty of cards and you're getting more answers to keep him alive until then. Not an exciting card by any means but I still think he's solid.
I may undervalue both Chandras. My only real issue with either of them is they haven't been around as long and I've seen them far less. I've had a lot less exposure to them so far but from what I see they are pretty good. If I revisit this in the future they likely (And a few other positions) will have changed. But for now I can't see them breaking the top twenty. Maybe beating Jace but not sure about Venser...yet
Koth is another example of exposure getting him more fame. While not super exciting like the top twenty I feel like if he's left alone for one turn the game can change a lot. In just one turn he can make the game a pain in the butt to win and has the option to ramp up a ton. Netting a bunch of mana and then casting something like Jokulhaups is a little backwards since Koth works well with lands but is totally doable to win the game with a walker constantly ticking up.
Nahiri should only really be in decks with one of those massive finishers but I didn't rate her that high because of the ult. She increases loyalty faster than most walkers and both abilities are pretty relevant. Opponents may not want to tap that gilded lotus for mana if it can be exiled or attack with that creature. I like the mind games she brings and the ability to just knock someone out gave her a boost
Finally Gideon Vs Sorin: Both of them have similar feels in how both can make pumping up emblems and tokens but the difference I found was Sorin sticks around after one emblem while Gideon will often die. Sorin ticks up with making a token while Gideon doesn't. Sorin has a decent last ability while Gideon does not. Sure not all of those things are big and honestly it's not too much of a difference but it was reason enough for me that Gideon felt obsolete to Sorin and why I didn't find much reason to put him higher. Kinda like how Tirel is just worse than Sun's Champion.
I really enjoy the discussion you bring though so I appreciate the comment.
I'm looking forward to announcing what happens next after the final rankings are in
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
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I still prefer Chandra Ablaze over Chandra, Flamecaller for my Jaya deck. Of course, if there's any EDH deck designed to use Chandra Ablaze, it's my version of Jaya.
Really appreciate at.
It's things like this that make me want to keep writing.
I think that every card has a slot somewhere (Except Tibalt). I mentioned earlier that just because a card is good in a deck doesn't make the card good.
Ancestral Statue isn't a good card...but it's insane in Animar. I think that plenty of these walkers have slots in other decks but I don't want to look at every single case for every card.
Also new article:
http://diestodoomblade.blogspot.com/2017/01/lets-look-at-commander-ban-list.html
NOT RANKING THE WALKERS.
But I don't know where else to post it without spamming the forums...so here
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
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It's the walker I've played most since she's come out. She's not breaking the top ten but man have I been impressed with her so far.
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
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Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
http://diestodoomblade.blogspot.com/2017/01/lets-discuss-edh-ban-list-part-two.html
Please do the poll at the bottom. Will help me a ton to see what others think on the ban list and make another article in the future with all your thoughts. Comments are greatly encouraged as it's an article I want to be mostly written by you guys, since I'm extremely lazy.
https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1xzUspjtolL6_YNtVypcKFlvg7t7cTrnJQGycRm1orLE/edit?usp=forms_home&ths=true
DO IT
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
- Doesn't go infinite.
- Doesn't win on the spot.
- It's enchantment + artifact, so it's more difficult to assemble than regular 2 card combos.
Sure fastbond is a card that can put you 2 turns ahead when drawn in the first turns but mana crypt and sol ring already do that, and with wheels and the likes can go out of control, but yawgmoths will, ad nauseam, and other broken things can do the same and worse. Fastbond is a card that will definitely let you combo out easier when drawing a lot of cards.
In a normal environment, fastbond will be a better exploration, a good card in the 98/99, and it won't be actively searched actively via tutors like a tooth and nail or something that can win you the game on the spot.
GBW NO Elves / Aggro Elves
GBWU Combo Elves
EDH Decks:
Duel Commander:
GG Thrun, the last Trolololol GG
GW The Captain WG
GWB Karadores BWG
GWU Jenara UWG
UWB Oloro-DD BWU
Regular EDH:
GBW Ghave the Enchanter WBG
I get that it's a powerful card, but...
(1) is it really more powerful than the already degenerate stuff like sol ring, mana crypt, or even mana vault? I feel like no.
(2) it doesn't seem like the kind of thing that's going to end the game quickly and obnoxiously, like fast mana can.
(3) given that most casual games last a long time, is it even clear that it's reliably better than something like phyrexian arena? Sure, it costs a few mana, but arena doesn't require mana every turn to use and doesn't force you to keep a full grip to work, and while it's good it's certainly very far from busted. Plus there's so many effects in commander that let you draw a bazillion cards.
I see the MoM combo in the comments, I can see how that'd be concerning. But honestly if I sat down at a table and one dude played mana crypt and another guy played library, I'm pretty sure I'd be a lot more worried about the dude with the mana crypt.
Obviously I'm speaking from ignorance here as I've never played with or against the card.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Chandra, Flamecaller's kinda cute with Warstorm Surge or Purphoros, God of the Forge.
Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is great in token decks. Two synergies for the price of one.
Koth of the Hammer is a weird one. I liked playing him when Prime Time was legal, but without easy access to a bunch of mountains (and, unfortunately, while every color gets "search your library for My Basic Land Type", I never see it in red, or blue for that matter), he becomes more complicated. That said, he's the closest you'll get to a red High Tide, and monored in general should use him. (Or something like Kalemne or Mayael where the mana curve will be unusually high.)
Nissa, Worldwaker is kind of interesting. I like Garruk Wildspeaker more, for the ability to untap any land, but Nissa gives me more mana (unless I have Gaea's Cradle out.)
Liliana, Heretical Healer is funny because the token is also sac fuel for Stax.
Jace Beleren does have one use in Nekusar. Basically there you're drawing a bunch of cards for everyone (pinging them with Underworld Dreams, Fate Unraveler, Psychosis Crawler, and Spiteful Visions, not to mention Nekusar himself) and getting enough loyalty to mill everyone for 20, which by this point should trigger Bloodchief Ascension.
Venser, the Sojourner also lets you get one permanent around your own wipes, and it has use in Bant Enchantress (with constellation cards) Bant Landfall (in addition to Bant Blink). Even Bant Tokens can use a second hit of something like Deranged Hermit. It even lets you put a Pacifism on an opponent's Sigarda, but then, so does Sun Titan. But blink has always been a Johnny mechanic, so...
On phasing:
Which is stronger in Vintage, Library or Mana Crypt? cEDH is close to Vintage at this point.
Spells are already so cheap, I feel that the constant gas from Library overwhelms the mana advantage from Crypt. Isn't having tons of cards equivalent to having tons of mana in the combo cEDH decks?
http://diestodoomblade.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-best-planeswalkers-in-commander-20.html
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake
No reason to run doubling season with any of my top ten. The article for them will be up soon and you can see why I have them above the others
Anyway I've started my own gameplay channel in which I play games (Magic also)
Twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/dies_to_doom_blade
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/user/UpsidedownHandshake