So, is this pretty much the same old debate of Options vs Consistency seem in previous discussions regarding 1v2, 2v3, and 3v5 color commanders?
Since we have 4 colored commanders (and partners now for additional combos), may we just as well run all 5 colors? How big/little is that gap between 4 vs 5 colors?
(Then again I guess this is sorta moot as ppl will play whatever cool Commander/Strategy appeals to them, regardless of colors and tradeoffs, which is why this format is oh-so-fun)
I can't say I'm pleased to see you and must warn you I may have to do something about it.
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: URDelver
Modern: UGRDelver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
I believe Skye629 is asking why someone would opt for say Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder over something like Cromat with access to all of the colors and, therefore, all of the cards.
In my opinion it comes down to two things - 1. Abilities 2. Flavor
I think the new commanders have many more interesting effects than the majority of five color commanders as well as having been worked on specifically by WotC design to try and represent a magic card devoid of one color. Some are better at it than others, but I think there was definitely an effort towards making the flavor of the cards matter in this edition of the Commander product.
Honestly I think the answer is going to vary for each player and/or each commander being discussed. For example, I am building Breya, Etherium Shaper. I wanted an artifact deck, and had the Esper artifact generals sitting in a box waiting for C16 to be released. When Breya was spoiled, I definitely chose Breya over Sharuum or Sydri because I wanted to try Esper plus red for all of the artifact related cards red offers. However, when I decided to build Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder, I didnt think Maelstrom Wanderer plus black. Instead I saw it as a way to build a chaotic cascade deck that didnt have to focus heavily on creatures like Maelstrom Wanderer usually does.
As a general answer to the question, I think people would choose a four color commander over a five color commander because having access to 5 colors and every legal card in the format makes deckbuilding very difficult, especially with commanders that dont have a clear focus like Cromat.
5 color gains you access to all the cards, but 4 color gains you access to almost all abilities and mechanics. You run 5 color if you need to access cards in all five colors, or there is a mechanical reason tied to the commander (slivers, allies, Child of Alara blowing everything up, etc). You run 4 color if you can afford to not have access to the fifth colors cards. The only thing you lose in 4 color vs 5, really, is blue's ability to counter spells and takes extra turns, and that's only if you aren't running blue. Everything white can do is covered by another color (black has sweepers, red and green swarms creatures and pump, black kills, blue and black flies, green and black gain life, blue and red have positive interactions with your artifacts, red and green kill artifacts while green kills enchantments, etc.). You lose discard if you don't run black, and that's about it, as green and white have recursion (even recursion to the board), red has direct damage, white and red kill creatures. You lose nothing by losing red, literally. Green you sort of lose ramp, but artifacts do a better job of that anyway, and that's it. Blue you lose counter spells and extra turns, and that's it, though that's also the hardest to replace. 4 color also, surprisingly, has a more manageable mana base allowing for more basics, making it somewhat more resilient to nbl hate without handicapping itself (you can swap out 4 ABU duals and 4 shocks for 2 of each basic going from 5-4 colors, and it isn't that hard to add 4-8 more).
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I think power of teh creature matters. For exxample, Atraxa.
You have a 4/4 for 4. That is fair to begin with. But then you have BUILT IN flying, vigilance, Lifelink and Deathtouch. Top it off with te ability to proliferate each turn... It's a great creature, VERY GOOD. Show me a 5 color that can do that.
5 color gains you access to all the cards, but 4 color gains you access to almost all abilities and mechanics. You run 5 color if you need to access cards in all five colors, or there is a mechanical reason tied to the commander (slivers, allies, Child of Alara blowing everything up, etc). You run 4 color if you can afford to not have access to the fifth colors cards. The only thing you lose in 4 color vs 5, really, is blue's ability to counter spells and takes extra turns, and that's only if you aren't running blue. Everything white can do is covered by another color (black has sweepers, red and green swarms creatures and pump, black kills, blue and black flies, green and black gain life, blue and red have positive interactions with your artifacts, red and green kill artifacts while green kills enchantments, etc.). You lose discard if you don't run black, and that's about it, as green and white have recursion (even recursion to the board), red has direct damage, white and red kill creatures. You lose nothing by losing red, literally. Green you sort of lose ramp, but artifacts do a better job of that anyway, and that's it. Blue you lose counter spells and extra turns, and that's it, though that's also the hardest to replace. 4 color also, surprisingly, has a more manageable mana base allowing for more basics, making it somewhat more resilient to nbl hate without handicapping itself (you can swap out 4 ABU duals and 4 shocks for 2 of each basic going from 5-4 colors, and it isn't that hard to add 4-8 more).
This is what I was looking for, and everyone made good points as well
I guess the biggest knock against 5 colors then, despite having everything at your disposal, is the selection of commanders. From what I have seen they tend to either be extremely generic, or extremely focused
Ill also briefly edit the main post to make it a little more clear
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How am I an Ascended Mage? I only play tabletop casual, and I dont even know if I'm playing the game correctly
5 color gains you access to all the cards, but 4 color gains you access to almost all abilities and mechanics. You run 5 color if you need to access cards in all five colors, or there is a mechanical reason tied to the commander (slivers, allies, Child of Alara blowing everything up, etc). You run 4 color if you can afford to not have access to the fifth colors cards. The only thing you lose in 4 color vs 5, really, is blue's ability to counter spells and takes extra turns, and that's only if you aren't running blue. Everything white can do is covered by another color (black has sweepers, red and green swarms creatures and pump, black kills, blue and black flies, green and black gain life, blue and red have positive interactions with your artifacts, red and green kill artifacts while green kills enchantments, etc.). You lose discard if you don't run black, and that's about it, as green and white have recursion (even recursion to the board), red has direct damage, white and red kill creatures. You lose nothing by losing red, literally. Green you sort of lose ramp, but artifacts do a better job of that anyway, and that's it. Blue you lose counter spells and extra turns, and that's it, though that's also the hardest to replace. 4 color also, surprisingly, has a more manageable mana base allowing for more basics, making it somewhat more resilient to nbl hate without handicapping itself (you can swap out 4 ABU duals and 4 shocks for 2 of each basic going from 5-4 colors, and it isn't that hard to add 4-8 more).
This is what I was looking for, and everyone made good points as well
I guess the biggest knock against 5 colors then, despite having everything at your disposal, is the selection of commanders. From what I have seen they tend to either be extremely generic, or extremely focused
Ill also briefly edit the main post to make it a little more clear
If you are interested in 5 color and want a general that isn't overly generic or overly focused, there are a few good choices:
Horde of Notions: While it can easily be made as elemental tribal, its a pretty decent body on its own, and it only takes a few good elemental creatures to make his ability worth it even without going all in on the tribe.
Child of Alara: His ability requires that he goes to the graveyard, so he can be interesting with reanimation effects.
Sliver Queen: Despite being a sliver, she does a good job helming decks that don't run slivers. Her ability to easily produce tokens lets her single handily build board presence for a 5 color control deck, and she is a good commander for 5 color tokens
Sliver Hivelord: Again, besides being a sliver, indestructible means he's a good voltron commander, and can helm a deck based on mass destruction effects, like swinging in with Worldslayer
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The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Honestly I think the answer is going to vary for each player and/or each commander being discussed. (...) When Breya was spoiled, I definitely chose Breya over Sharuum or Sydri because I wanted to try Esper plus red for all of the artifact related cards red offers.(...)
I want to echo this. I am living in Lima, Peru and we still don't have our commander 2016 decks. I am told it might take another week thanks to customs... I am suffering here...
...anyway
I have played various forms of UWB good stuff control over the years and when I saw Esper + Red, it certainly got my attention.
All of that stuff looks like a lot of fun and a good reason to splash a little red in m Esper deck. Additionally, it isn't that difficult to produce a red pip when you use City of Brass, Mana Confluence, Command Tower, Forbidden Orchard, and the red signets. You could use Rupture Spire and Transguild Promenade too if you were so inclined (though they are super slow)
I am also tempted to look into some Grixis cards like Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (only a single red pip) to add to the deck as well, which also works in terms of flavor for me as Bolas was involved in the Shards block and made Tezzeret his personal slave fore a while.
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"Whatever style you wish to play, be it fast and frenzied or slow and tactical, the surest way to defeat your opponent consistently is by dominating him or her in the war of card advantage." - Brian Wiseman, April 1996
I'll be honest with you, I have almost all the decks and I'm not noticing any problem at all with the lack of one color in each of the decks. Obviously the exception being the -blue, because everyone can use blue! But joking aside, it hasn't been a sore to miss white for Yidris, green for Breya, and especially red for Atraxa.
I have a set goal for each I mentioned and I'm having trouble as it is only having a hundred cards for each, there's so many possibilities. And that's for my very specified theme.
Breya combo... I don't know what green would do me for other then mana fixing... which what do I need that for? Half my cards are colorless.
Atraxa infect, enough said for the lack of needing red
Yidris white, few fun white cards and board wipes, but the access is available elsewhere.
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So, is this pretty much the same old debate of Options vs Consistency seem in previous discussions regarding 1v2, 2v3, and 3v5 color commanders?
Since we have 4 colored commanders (and partners now for additional combos), may we just as well run all 5 colors? How big/little is that gap between 4 vs 5 colors?
(Then again I guess this is sorta moot as ppl will play whatever cool Commander/Strategy appeals to them, regardless of colors and tradeoffs, which is why this format is oh-so-fun)
How am I an Ascended Mage? I only play tabletop casual, and I dont even know if I'm playing the game correctly
Modern
GStompyG/UBNinjasUB
Legacy
UPhasenoughtU
EDH
RNorin the WaryR
UBRThraximundarUBR
EDH: UGEdric
Pauper: UR Delver
Modern: UGR Delver
Draft my cube: Eric's 390 Unpowered
In my opinion it comes down to two things - 1. Abilities 2. Flavor
I think the new commanders have many more interesting effects than the majority of five color commanders as well as having been worked on specifically by WotC design to try and represent a magic card devoid of one color. Some are better at it than others, but I think there was definitely an effort towards making the flavor of the cards matter in this edition of the Commander product.
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls - Knowledge is Power U [Primer]
R Heartless Hidetsugu - The Art of Ending Games R
GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow - The Cluster HungersBG
As a general answer to the question, I think people would choose a four color commander over a five color commander because having access to 5 colors and every legal card in the format makes deckbuilding very difficult, especially with commanders that dont have a clear focus like Cromat.
The Mimeoplasm || Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher || Vial Smasher/Tymna Group Slug
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief || Talrand, Sky Summoner
Yidris - Unblockable Saboteurs || Kiki-Jiki, ETB breaker
Kess, Dissident Mage
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
You have a 4/4 for 4. That is fair to begin with. But then you have BUILT IN flying, vigilance, Lifelink and Deathtouch. Top it off with te ability to proliferate each turn... It's a great creature, VERY GOOD. Show me a 5 color that can do that.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
This is what I was looking for, and everyone made good points as well
I guess the biggest knock against 5 colors then, despite having everything at your disposal, is the selection of commanders. From what I have seen they tend to either be extremely generic, or extremely focused
Ill also briefly edit the main post to make it a little more clear
How am I an Ascended Mage? I only play tabletop casual, and I dont even know if I'm playing the game correctly
Modern
GStompyG/UBNinjasUB
Legacy
UPhasenoughtU
EDH
RNorin the WaryR
UBRThraximundarUBR
If you are interested in 5 color and want a general that isn't overly generic or overly focused, there are a few good choices:
Horde of Notions: While it can easily be made as elemental tribal, its a pretty decent body on its own, and it only takes a few good elemental creatures to make his ability worth it even without going all in on the tribe.
Child of Alara: His ability requires that he goes to the graveyard, so he can be interesting with reanimation effects.
Sliver Queen: Despite being a sliver, she does a good job helming decks that don't run slivers. Her ability to easily produce tokens lets her single handily build board presence for a 5 color control deck, and she is a good commander for 5 color tokens
Sliver Hivelord: Again, besides being a sliver, indestructible means he's a good voltron commander, and can helm a deck based on mass destruction effects, like swinging in with Worldslayer
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I want to echo this. I am living in Lima, Peru and we still don't have our commander 2016 decks. I am told it might take another week thanks to customs... I am suffering here...
...anyway
I have played various forms of UWB good stuff control over the years and when I saw Esper + Red, it certainly got my attention.
Daretti, Scrap Savant
Goblin Welder
Dack Fayden
Saheeli Rai
Hellkite Tyrant
Trash for Treasure
All of that stuff looks like a lot of fun and a good reason to splash a little red in m Esper deck. Additionally, it isn't that difficult to produce a red pip when you use City of Brass, Mana Confluence, Command Tower, Forbidden Orchard, and the red signets. You could use Rupture Spire and Transguild Promenade too if you were so inclined (though they are super slow)
I am also tempted to look into some Grixis cards like Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (only a single red pip) to add to the deck as well, which also works in terms of flavor for me as Bolas was involved in the Shards block and made Tezzeret his personal slave fore a while.
I have a set goal for each I mentioned and I'm having trouble as it is only having a hundred cards for each, there's so many possibilities. And that's for my very specified theme.
Breya combo... I don't know what green would do me for other then mana fixing... which what do I need that for? Half my cards are colorless.
Atraxa infect, enough said for the lack of needing red
Yidris white, few fun white cards and board wipes, but the access is available elsewhere.