Now that we got Commander 2016 out, and no effective reprint legends based on the original nephilim, would anyone here let people still run them?
Me personally, I would. Sure, some people only used them for their colors, but their effects were great to build around and Wizards didn't give us replacements for all of them.
Yep, they are pretty much legendary creatures that just happen to not have the correct supertype.
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Yes, but with one small errata: They must be treated as legendary as well. So legend rules apply, which is especially important in case of Ink-Treader.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Yes, but with one small errata: They must be treated as legendary as well. So legend rules apply, which is especially important in case of Ink-Treader.
why? It won't copy infinitely, the copies aren't "cast" so they won't trigger.
ink treader is still hella busted as a commander, though.
It seems like I might be in the minority, but I don't think they should be allowed as generals. Nephalim, no matter what they "should" have been, are not printed as Legendary. I get the idea that using them prior to the release of Commander 2016 was to offer 4-color commanders (though I never considered them for my decks even then), but now that we have real 4-color commanders and partners to allow for other 4-color "teams" to be at the helm of 4-color EDH decks, Nephilim are no longer unique to 4-color and we have options that fall within the confines of the EDH rules.
I would. If nothing else I think it would be hard to convert a Nephelim deck into one of the other 4c options and prefer to see people playing what they enjoy. Aside from that theyre super unique and interesting.
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EDH BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern: RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
Yes, but with one small errata: They must be treated as legendary as well. So legend rules apply, which is especially important in case of Ink-Treader.
why? It won't copy infinitely, the copies aren't "cast" so they won't trigger.
ink treader is still hella busted as a commander, though.
Because even then, 1 Ink-Treader is easier to deal with as suddenly 2, 4 or 8. And I do stand by the reasoning that a commander must be legendary to begin with, and IMO they simply forgot that word while printing them, so...
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Lore wise, the Nephlim legendary creatures. WotC just did not print them as such.
I allowed them as Generals before but now that we do have 4c legends and that we have multiple option with te partners, No I no longer allow them.
Because even then, 1 Ink-Treader is easier to deal with as suddenly 2, 4 or 8. And I do stand by the reasoning that a commander must be legendary to begin with, and IMO they simply forgot that word while printing them, so...
i would think multiple ink treaders would be just as easy to deal with as one, it just takes one targeted removal spell either way.
I agree with LouCypher's opinion that they should be counted as a legendary, but more from principle than mechanical reasons.
If a group is going to let you count your "non-legendary" creature as a legendary for the purposes of being your commander, then you should also get all the cons that go along with that as well. Just seems more fair that way to me I guess.
Its like my playgroup letting our friend play Elbrus, the Binding Blade as his commander. If the artifact or Withengar Unbound go back to the command zone then he has to pay commander tax just like everyone else. And that dagger gets pretty dang expensive
I have no problem with them, and to be honest aside from Ink-Treader and maybe Yore-tiller they're not even as powerful as some of the new 4color commanders. The only objection I can see would be that they're not "legendary" enough, but they seem to be unique, powerful, creatures, so that gives them enough "legend" flavor for me. It's not as if someone is playing krovikan horror as their commander or anything.
There are a lot of pseudo-legendary (or pseudo-creature) cards that I feel should be ok. Like chromanticore, genju of the realm...
I like the Elbrus idea too
Though of course, commander tax, legend rule, etc should all apply.
I really just want to see a Yore-Tiller Nephilim deck. Looks like it'd be crazy fun to pilot.
This is the only Nephilim I've played against, and it was a fun deck. It had a bunch of recursion and evoke creatures, and made great use of Break Through the Line. The only problem was that the commander was quite fragile as a 2/2 and lacked natural evasion, so if it couldnt attack the deck's gameplan stalled.
Probably, but it's a flavor fail. There were not five nephilim. There were hundreds and hence never legends.
Uh... no? There were five nephilim. Niv-Mizzet killed Witch Maw and Dune-Brood, Rakdos killed Glint-Eye, I believe Kraj killed Ink-Treader, and Yore-Tiller was killed by a bunch of Boros troops.
Weren't there five breeds of them, and only one of each got out?
Not too off-topic, but was Ankle Shanker a role in the Mardu? AS was a character. Seems like the same scenario.
I'm pretty sure it was a role, because the one in the art there is male, and the intro deck version of Ankle Shanker was what Vial Smasher was based on, pre-Dragons.
I have no problem with them, and to be honest aside from Ink-Treader and maybe Yore-tiller they're not even as powerful as some of the new 4color commanders. The only objection I can see would be that they're not "legendary" enough, but they seem to be unique, powerful, creatures, so that gives them enough "legend" flavor for me. It's not as if someone is playing krovikan horror as their commander or anything.
There are a lot of pseudo-legendary (or pseudo-creature) cards that I feel should be ok. Like chromanticore, genju of the realm...
I like the Elbrus idea too
Though of course, commander tax, legend rule, etc should all apply.
This.
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Me personally, I would. Sure, some people only used them for their colors, but their effects were great to build around and Wizards didn't give us replacements for all of them.
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Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
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http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/magic-general/334931-what-is-the-most-pimp-card-deck-youve-seen-or?comment=5361
Commander
RGOmnath, Locus of Rage Grenades! EDHGR
UWSygg's Defense, EDH - Voltron & ControlWU
BUGMimeoplasm EDH ft. Ifnir Cycling-discard comboBUG
WBTeysa, Connoisseur of CullingBW
BWSelenia & Recruiter of the Guard suicice combo EDHWB
UBRWGO-Kagachi - 5 Color Enchantments - EDHUBRWG
- Rabid Wombat
WUBRGReaper King - Superfriends
WUBRGChild of Alara - The Nauseating Aurora
WUBSharuum the Hegemon - Christmas In Prison
WUBZur the Enchanter - Ow My Face
WRJor Kadeen, the Prevailer - Snow Goats
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden - International Goblin All Purpose Recycling Facility Number 12
WGSaffi Eriksdotter - Saffi Combosdotter
UPatron of the Moon - The Age of Aquarius
BHorobi, Death's Wail - Bring Out Your Dead
GSachi, Daughter of Seshiro - Sneks
Now there are more options for a given 4-color combo than there were for some 3-color combos a month ago.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
ink treader is still hella busted as a commander, though.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern:
RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
Because even then, 1 Ink-Treader is easier to deal with as suddenly 2, 4 or 8. And I do stand by the reasoning that a commander must be legendary to begin with, and IMO they simply forgot that word while printing them, so...
I allowed them as Generals before but now that we do have 4c legends and that we have multiple option with te partners, No I no longer allow them.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
If a group is going to let you count your "non-legendary" creature as a legendary for the purposes of being your commander, then you should also get all the cons that go along with that as well. Just seems more fair that way to me I guess.
Its like my playgroup letting our friend play Elbrus, the Binding Blade as his commander. If the artifact or Withengar Unbound go back to the command zone then he has to pay commander tax just like everyone else. And that dagger gets pretty dang expensive
U Azami, Lady of Scrolls - Knowledge is Power U [Primer]
R Heartless Hidetsugu - The Art of Ending Games R
GB Ishkanah, Grafwidow - The Cluster HungersBG
The Mimeoplasm || Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher || Vial Smasher/Tymna Group Slug
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief || Talrand, Sky Summoner
Yidris - Unblockable Saboteurs || Kiki-Jiki, ETB breaker
Kess, Dissident Mage
UAzami, Locus of All KnowledgeU
BMarrow-Gnawer, Crime Lord of ComboB
WBRTariel, Hellraiser StaxWBR
Annul is really good in EDH
There are a lot of pseudo-legendary (or pseudo-creature) cards that I feel should be ok. Like chromanticore, genju of the realm...
I like the Elbrus idea too
Though of course, commander tax, legend rule, etc should all apply.
Tymna & Ishai, ie Esper Edric
Crosis Turbotrash
This is the only Nephilim I've played against, and it was a fun deck. It had a bunch of recursion and evoke creatures, and made great use of Break Through the Line. The only problem was that the commander was quite fragile as a 2/2 and lacked natural evasion, so if it couldnt attack the deck's gameplan stalled.
The Mimeoplasm || Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher || Vial Smasher/Tymna Group Slug
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief || Talrand, Sky Summoner
Yidris - Unblockable Saboteurs || Kiki-Jiki, ETB breaker
Kess, Dissident Mage
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Not too off-topic, but was Ankle Shanker a role in the Mardu? AS was a character. Seems like the same scenario.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I'm pretty sure it was a role, because the one in the art there is male, and the intro deck version of Ankle Shanker was what Vial Smasher was based on, pre-Dragons.
This.
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