Honestly, I think upfront there is an advantage but if you walk into a board clear it takes a lot longer to set back up with two commanders. Considering commander tax, its very hard to recast both of them in one turn even later so the trade off if you ask me is that they require more setup time and sweepers will punish them more because of that.
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While I don't think the Partners are necessarily as good as the OP suggests I certainly don't think they are anywhere near as bad as you imply. Kydele + Wheel effects (like Arjun, the Shifting Flame?) can generate a CRAP ton of mana. (Arjun + Brainstorm to save cards you want from the Wheel effect = upwards of 10 cards and 10 mana for 1 blue?) The Partners just require some more creative thinking.
I would say Kydele is the closest to busted. She doesn't even need a partner (other than for the colors), just a Gemstone Array + Arjun and she can essentially draw and play your entire library nearly by herself.
For people who want an alternative to Dorin (for budget or whatever) you can play Sidar + Ikra.
Reyhan + Ishai so that you can place hold Ishai's counters in between deaths?
Tana + Sidar to go wide, low, and difficult to block
Tana + Ravos for a similar go wide strategy but with an anthem and card advantage in the Command Zone?
You just have to look a little deeper. They aren't so obvious on the face.
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While I don't think the Partners are necessarily as good as the OP suggests I certainly don't think they are anywhere near as bad as you imply. Kydele + Wheel effects (like Arjun, the Shifting Flame?) can generate a CRAP ton of mana. (Arjun + Brainstorm to save cards you want from the Wheel effect = upwards of 10 cards and 10 mana for 1 blue?) The Partners just require some more creative thinking.
Creative thinking and far more optimism than I can muster.
I would say Kydele is the closest to busted. She doesn't even need a partner (other than for the colors), just a Gemstone Array + Arjun and she can essentially draw and play your entire library nearly by herself.
Oh, Kydele is really good. I just pointed out the costs of drawing a bunch of cards so that she can make mana. Basically, you use stuff like Tymna and draw a bunch of cards without spending mana, or go combo, cause spending a bunch of mana to draw cards with engines and spells typically isn't very mana efficient in the first place.
For people who want an alternative to Dorin (for budget or whatever) you can play Sidar + Ikra.
Ikra has 3 power. Sidar does nothing for Ikra. Though, I now see a case for adding Sidar to the 99 of a Doran deck. They are not a substitute for Doran, at all. Doran is good for high damage and speed while Ikra and Sidar are good at neither. Even just going for little creature aggro, it's not the best colors and only Sidar supports the strategy.
Reyhan + Ishai so that you can place hold Ishai's counters in between deaths?
Which is basically what I was getting at. All the deck would be is voltron with an extra commander. You'd just be sitting back putting counters on Ishai, which does not make for an interesting or powerful pair(note the word pair). Reyhan doesn't do much for Ishai that Ishai couldn't do on its own.
Tana + Sidar to go wide, low, and difficult to block
Tana + Ravos for a similar go wide strategy but with an anthem and card advantage in the Command Zone?
I will stand by my stating that Tana is just really bad. It's a 2/2 trample for 4cmc that gives 1/1's based on how much combat damage she deals. Yes, Sidar makes it easier to swing, but either you want to deal commander damage or you want to make tokens. With Rith, Hazezon, and Marath, Tana + Sidar is generally subpar at dealing damage and making tokens.
Tana and ravos have synergy, but your still trying to get a 3/3 to connect on turn ~5. Tana is just too small for 4cmc. I'd rather have Spawnwrite, though it rarely ever sees play, it comes down sooner and get's out of control quicker.
2. I'd argue that the number of instances in which this actually comes up is low enough to be insignificant in most decks. Eldritch Evolution and Birthing Pod are just two cards, and I can't think of anything else with analogous effects off the top of my head. (Plus, not sure where you're actually going with the Kiki/Resto analogy.)
Well in this instance you have a win in two turns if not disrupted, by simply getting an active Birthing Pod. Literally don't need any other cards, just your commanders at the ready.
Having commanders that can both click up separate commander damage, means that you can focus on several players. This is a specific example, but I was playing Reyhan, last of the Abzan and Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker and attacked a player with both Reyhan and Ishai. They could only block one and I had a sacrifice outlet, so did that to the blocked one, giving my other commander more than 21 damage.
Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer is just better, but Akiri is different enough to peek my interest.
Akiri bashing your unprepared head in turn 4 if not 3 with double strike is so much more likely than getting killed by the lucky Elemental Mastery draw on a 5-mana general.
Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper ... completely irrelevant everywhere else
This is the format where one of the most powerful and oppressive decks of all times(in 1v1 but also FFA) has Flying Men as an autoinclude. It's the format that made Statecraft spike, the #1 build-around-format. If you're playing EDH for more than 20 months and you have that oppinion you need to stop playing goodstuff.net.deck and get creative or you're missing out on all the fun. Give me an Aetherflux Reservoir or a Sanguine Bond and I will show you something to do with this "irrelevant" card.
Ravos, Soultender - Not something I'd ever use as a commander. Not bad, but there's just far better things; Karador, Meren, Sheoldred, Reya Dawnbringer
This is comparable to Verdeloth the Ancient and that is a deck. Ravos doubles your P/T on the board if you're playing tokens and he's a must-answer-long-term. The fact that he let's you recast you other general for free while improving your board is something you can work with easily. A free Raise Dead per turn on him means any creature that recurs a creature in your deck now enables you to get everything back, forever, with Ravos. Worse than Karador? Well you can play a second general, of course partners are less powerful alone. Worse than Reya, a 78 9 mana mono white general that triggers on... you know what, **** it.
Reyhan, Last of the Abzan - All your things have Modular. Ok, sure. It would be kind of fun to build. Doesn't really synergize well with any of the others in colors or effect. Ishai wouldn't make a bad pair, but you'd mostly be trying to stack counters onto Ishai rather than playing with Modular shenanigans.
Friend of mine built the deck, it works. Play Lightning Greaves/Sylvan Safekeeper etc., drop Ishai with mana up to counter Wrath, watch them try to handle your ***** while you swing for 12-25 a turn.
Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa - The "evasion" he gives is so specific that it doesn't even matter. It's just bad.
Can I simply say that you're just bad? I'm pretty sure by now you've never played a decent tokens deck, otherwise you'd know that "swing with 5+ flying 1/1 creatures, no blocks, Mercadia's Downfall" is a legitimate play and there are a million versions of it.
Silas Renn, Seeker Adept - Deathtouch is not a form of evasion. That, and the sheer number of small creatures in the format that can block him without issue or care of them dying is hilarious. Either you give it legitimate evasion or focus removal on someone every time you want to swing.
One Nekusar, Jeleva, Mizzix or [insert random spellslinger deck] at the table means you can swing freely, it's totally a meta call
Tymna the Weaver - Really wished her ability worked every turn and not just your turn. She's pretty okay. Significantly worse than Edric, Spymaster of Trest and in colors that would make Edric himself significantly less powerful, but not bad. She does drop off as the game goes on which is the exact opposite of what a commander deck needs. Not good enough, but not terrible. Just okay.
While she does "drop off" as in "only draws 3 like Arcanis", what the hell are you doing that you can't win a game when you play Ancestral every turn for 0 mana?? I've played the deck and you never run out of cards ever. She's not worse than Edric, she's Edric with black in it, plus Serra Ascendant and Mother of Runes.
First off Akiri, Line-Slinger has First strike, not double strike. If she had double strike, then she'd be miles better than Jor Kadeen. Akiri is a voltron general, plain and simple, but Jor kadeen can go aggro with lots of little efficient creatures and swing for ridiculous amounts the turn he comes down or go voltron. Akiri takes quite a bit of buildup to make her starting 0 power into a powerhouse. Boros isn't lacking in voltron generals and she comes up fairly short against a lot of them, but she's interesting. She interests me, which makes her far better to me than she'd actually be. I'll definitely play her in the future, but she won't be anywhere near the best voltron I've ever played.
On Ikra Shadiqi, Reservoir or Sanguine bond could be ok. Ok at best, especially the hate that Sanguine Bond tends to draw. Having two cards that the commander works with doesn't make her viable. I've wanted to play Blind Seer for years, but there just isn't enough cards to support him and turning Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast into Vindicates just isn't enough. The problem is that you have to go aggro; she can't do anything else. A 3/7 typically can't do very much in combat either, though menace does help some. You can't even pair her with Sikar Kondo of Jamuraa as he doesn't even help her. She just doesn't have the support or damage that she needs outside of a Doran, the Seige tower deck.
Thinking on Ravos, I decided to do a bit of research on gatherer. It is very strange how rare and costly his second ability tends to be; It's actually easier and more mana efficient to pull things straight to the battlefield. Now, comparing him to Verdeloth the Ancient, Verdeloth makes his own tokens and has all of green's overrun effects backing them. Black/white just doesn't have that. Recurring creatures with Cast triggers seems to be his best feature, though cast triggers are fairly rare outside of Eldrazi.
Next comes Sidar Kondo. Tokens work with him, but the strategy just doesn't need him. With tokens, you win with sheer numbers or by making them all huge. Making a hundred or so tokens harder to block doesn't really do much to secure a win that the hundred tokens doesn't alredy have. Basically, he's not a token commander. Maybe lots of little creatures with "deals combat damage" triggers, but even then you still want a point in the game that you can make all of your creatures big enough to take someone out rather than slowly widdling people down with 5-8 power worth of Theiving Magpie. I am willing to recend my "It's just bad." and replace it with "It's just specific."
Last is Tymna. She IS significantly weaker than Edric 1.0. Edric has mana dorks, ramp, overruns, counterspells, far more draw, and extra turn cards. Tymna has next to none of that. Drawing 3 extra cards a turn is nowhere near bad, but in her colors you really have to earn those 3 cards. Edric is really explosive and is highly resistant to board wipes. There's a reason that Edric is banned in French(1v1) Commander and he's just as good in free for alls. If you read the other posts i've made, I've covered a couple of posibilities for her including pairing her with Kydele and having acess to everything that Edric does.
I'm not a fan of Partners or the way they are so mild by themselves but obviously overpowered together. The combos are odd too, make zero flavor sense and all around scream of a lazy job from wizards
Actually, I greatly enjoy the Partners. I currently have only one deck with (Tymna/Ravos tribal Clerics), but they are just so much fun. I actually would have built a Mardu deck with one of them and another partner--except that I pretend the hideous Bruse Tarl does not exist, and I found Akiri to want to do something totally different from anything that I wanted with Tymna.
I hope they make more partners, as I would like to be able to utilize more interesting combinations!
I agree that these new legends have innate issues that make them weaker than their predecessors, although some of your points are color-related (like Tynma vs Edric), which can be resolved by adding a partner to infuse extra colors. Take Akiri for example, even if one intends to play just her and not her partner, you can still give her deck U, B, and/or G, a trait Jor Kadeen cannot. Akiri also pairs well with Thrasios; he needs mana, and each mana rock pumps Akiri.
It's pretty hilarious that people are simultaneously saying they're overpowered and trash in the same thread. Magic players: #1 in the world at exaggerating.
Besides Ludevic and the boros commanders, I'm a fan of the direction they went. It's a bit conservative in most cases, but that's for the best when experimenting with a new mechanic like this. I DO wish there were more commanders like reyhan that had really heavy build-arounds, but overall they're a neat solution to the problem.
While some of them are definitely strong, I don't think they're anywhere near strong enough to upset the reigning kings of the competitive scene. And except ludevic, they're all at least playable in a casual environment. So I'd say they hit a good level of power, all things considered.
I was aware Akiri doesn't have double strike, it's just the easiest way to get to 21 and you've got plenty options on equipments and cheap spells. Something like the 1-mana O-Naginata deals 12 general damage in 2 swings with a Psychotic Fury in hand!
While Ravos doesn't provide us many creature based token generators in his colors, he doesn't have to because he's a partner. Thelonite Hermit, Deranged Hermit, Mongrel Pack etc. are all strong with him. Maybe this is not the most powerful of all tokens decks but it's something new and unexplored and it looks resilient enough to warrant running the deck for a couple weeks.
Regarding Tymna, again, color doesn't matter. I was happy to play Edric+WB for the tutors and 1-drops with Tymna and Thrasios(Kydele's colorless mana has no use in a 4-color 1-drop+counterspell deck and Thrasios is a great parity breaker when you're not winning especially with Cradle)
I think i'm going to give you the ravos argument, not because I agree with it, but solely because you can tack Thrasios onto literally any partner legend and magically make it better.
I will say that I prefer Kydele with Tymna to help pay for mass reanimation, extra turn, and pricy overrun spells.
I kind of liked the idea of Partners but gameplay I think they are underpowered outside of the Jeskai+ Abzan set up (Results from Top8EDH places Partner Aggro at what mid-tier?). I feel they are under powered and people are still in the process of optimizing their load outs. So I think they will get good in the coming months but we have to wait it out. Still waiting on how to go stupid with Vial-Smasher (RB Burn?).
@ Darkeshrine: I'm going to have to disagree with your assessment RE: Doran. Doran is strong but the interaction between Sidar and Ikra isn't on a Voltron strategy. Sidar + Assualt Formation or Doran makes all of your 0/5 (or whatever) defenders into 5/5 unblockables. When you add in Ikra those are 5/5, 7/7 or whatever Unblockable Lifelinkers....How is that not ridiculously powerful? At the very least it makes it seriously worth considering as an alternative to just running Doran himself since having access to making your guys Unblockable Lifelink from the Command Zone is pretty good.
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@ Darkeshrine: I'm going to have to disagree with your assessment RE: Doran. Doran is strong but the interaction between Sidar and Ikra isn't on a Voltron strategy. Sidar + Assualt Formation or Doran makes all of your 0/5 (or whatever) defenders into 5/5 unblockables. When you add in Ikra those are 5/5, 7/7 or whatever Unblockable Lifelinkers....How is that not ridiculously powerful? At the very least it makes it seriously worth considering as an alternative to just running Doran himself since having access to making your guys Unblockable Lifelink from the Command Zone is pretty good.
I have never seen a Doran voltron deck. It's kind of suprising actually. He's got the colors and the size to be good, but I just couldn't find a list. Checked every deck on MtgGoldfish and couldn't find one, and there isn't one on the Decklist database. I'm going to have to build that eventually.
Also, Sidar and Ikra just can't be voltron as neither are good enough in size, evasion, or protection(hexproof, etc). A build between the two would most likely be large toughness creatures with 2 or less power to work with both of their abilities. Looking at a bunch of lists, there are a surprising few that fit that that aren't walls. Sidr and Ikra don't build walls as walls only have 2(?) cards that let them attack and even then they won't deal damage without Doran; which makes Doran a better choice for Wall tribal. Going just with cheap efficient low power, high toughness creatures you still NEED doran or Assault Formation for the deck to stand a chance, making Doran the far better option as you'd always have him. I honestly can't think of a way to build for both Sidar and Ikra's strong suites where Doran wouldn't be the better option as regardless of how you build it Doran is still more necessary than those two. This is why I insist that they are better in the 99 of Doran, specifically Ikra or them specifically as a pair. Sidar has a few uses, namely getting other partners to connect more often, but requires a bit of a build around to really make him half decent at it.
As a mechanic Partner is inherently powerful. Just having 2 Commanders gives you so many more options in any given game. The Partners they gave us are a little lackluster but I still think there are a few very strong combinations. Right now I'm playing Tymna + Tana and having a lot of fun with it. Basically it's a 4 color Saproling deck. It doesn't truly need either of them to function but both of them can contribute greatly to the deck. Tymna helps keep me fueled up and Tana helps me create dudes. The only complaint I have is that Tana is definitely understatted for her cost but the fact that her token production can be scaled up by buffing her almost makes up for it.
Aside from the 2 Izzet partners and the one Selesnya guy I think the rest of the partners are all "ok". You simply can't look at them in a vacuum because they just aren't meant to be used like that.
Unfortunately every try hard from Sacramento to Shanghai preaches from the top of their 27 lands + Mana Reflection that Tooth and Nail and Time Stretch are fine to play in the same turn but Armageddon is unfair.
Without a doubt reading through peoples assessments of the partners, there is still a huge misunderstanding of each worth, and especially when teamed up.
I'm guessing that those with negative comments have not played them yet, and those with positive comments are people who have probably played with partners. This is no coincidence, you have to have experienced, play tested with them before you can understand the benefits and inherit power of playing with two commanders. Is it a biased assessment because its a new concept and I've been playing a lot with them? No, if they failed to deliver when I played these deck, I would have written that it they were not up to competitive play. Are they tier one Stax? No, but not all commander decks are tier one Stax, check out the primer list, people do play a variety of decks. Are they degenerate like an Animar deck? No. But we are also comparing against all the other primers, and as I say, there is a wide variety of decks, and partners as a unit out synergies a lot of them.
I also think a common mistake is that people are also assessing the partner commanders too much individually or compared to how well they synergies just together, and not what colors they can provide and synergies with the content of the 98. Two partners that don't have "obvious" synergies with each other, doesn't mean that the content of the deck doesn't tie them up together in really unexpectedly good ways, or just individually bring dynamics to the deck.
I also think a common mistake is that people are also assessing the partner commanders too much individually or compared to how well they synergies just together, and not what colors they can provide and synergies with the content of the 98. Two partners that don't have "obvious" synergies with each other, doesn't mean that the content of the deck doesn't tie them up together in really unexpectedly good ways, or just individually bring dynamics to the deck.
Which brings me into a question for me. If we are building around 98 cards how would that affect the deck building process in general? Think 2 less cards might not make a larger difference but also you might have a tighter pool to work with.
I also think a common mistake is that people are also assessing the partner commanders too much individually or compared to how well they synergies just together, and not what colors they can provide and synergies with the content of the 98. Two partners that don't have "obvious" synergies with each other, doesn't mean that the content of the deck doesn't tie them up together in really unexpectedly good ways, or just individually bring dynamics to the deck.
Which brings me into a question for me. If we are building around 98 cards how would that affect the deck building process in general? Think 2 less cards might not make a larger difference but also you might have a tighter pool to work with.
This is one reason that I'm so harsh on their designs. I typically spend about a week building a deck, culling the numbers from ~400 possible cards while deliberating on what cards are more effective vs just plain cooler. I have hundreds of cards that I really wish would make the cut, but then I have to drop yet another card for a second commander that may not even synergize with the first. I'm not willing to give up a card slot just for an extra color or two.
A good example is the Thrasios, Triton Hero deck I want to build; Thrasios, Training gounds, Heartstone and bunches of guildmages. Only problem is there's no partner that synergizes with him that adds even one extra color. I blatantly refuse to waste a card slot and while I could just chose a different legend (like Sliver queen) the deck would just lose what I want it to be.
The Partner mechanic wasn't a bad Idea, but the way they executed it was horrible. They all should have just read "Commander creatures you control have [this]." with their text box in [this]. It would have made it important to have two and play both of them.
A good example is the Thrasios, Triton Hero deck I want to build; Thrasios, Training gounds, Heartstone and bunches of guildmages. Only problem is there's no partner that synergizes with him that adds even one extra color. I blatantly refuse to waste a card slot and while I could just chose a different legend (like Sliver queen) the deck would just lose what I want it to be.
I'm going to have to say you are so wrong about this. I've done a primer on Thrasios here and I haven't even scratched the surface on potential partners and unexpected synergies.
Cutting cards is hard. If you want to play four or five colors and one commander, then sure, do the usually thing and force yourself into Atraxa, Breya, Yidris, Saskia, Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis or Silver Queen, etc. But of course you're either even more boxed into an archetype or your commander is literally just used for the colors.
WotC could have printed a bunch more four color commanders, rather than partners, but they have given us more variety in card choice in selecting commanders as well as the content of the deck. Card choice is something that all magic players love, so I'm thankful that they have given us more options to choose.
A good example is the Thrasios, Triton Hero deck I want to build; Thrasios, Training gounds, Heartstone and bunches of guildmages. Only problem is there's no partner that synergizes with him that adds even one extra color. I blatantly refuse to waste a card slot and while I could just chose a different legend (like Sliver queen) the deck would just lose what I want it to be.
I'm going to have to say you are so wrong about this. I've done a primer on Thrasios here and I haven't even scratched the surface on potential partners and unexpected synergies.
Cutting cards is hard. If you want to play four or five colors and one commander, then sure, do the usually thing and force yourself into Atraxa, Breya, Yidris, Saskia, Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis or Silver Queen, etc. But of course you're either even more boxed into an archetype or your commander is literally just used for the colors.
WotC could have printed a bunch more four color commanders, rather than partners, but they have given us more variety in card choice in selecting commanders as well as the content of the deck. Card choice is something that all magic players love, so I'm thankful that they have given us more options to choose.
.... you can tack Thrasios onto literally any partner legend and magically make it better.
None of the other partner legends synergize with Thasios. None of them. They don't have abilities that like or trigger on you drawing cards, putting lands into play, or have activated abilities that can be cost reducted or copied like Thrasios. Thrasios giving the other legends draw and ramp, making them better is not them synergizing with him. They do not synergize with him. They do not complement what he does.
The absolute best cases for "synergy" is Akiri or Silas that like artifacts, catering to Thrasios's love for cards like Rings of Brighthearth, Illusionist's Bracers, etc. They still don't synergize with him. Mana rocks are fairly unimportant in green, as it simply doesn't need them. Adding a bunch to the deck so that Akiri or Silas actually do something only takes away from Thrasios. In the end, you just end up with an Akiri or silas deck with Thrasios being the support card.
None of the other partner legends synergize with Thasios. None of them. They don't have abilities that like or trigger on you drawing cards, putting lands into play, or have activated abilities that can be cost reducted or copied like Thrasios. Thrasios giving the other legends draw and ramp, making them better is not them synergizing with him. They do not synergize with him. They do not complement what he does.
OK, I see the difference in opinions. You literally want the card text on each commander to say commander A combos with commander B. Some of them do of course, but if this was the case for all of them then WotC are just designing the decks for us really, and especilly forcing us to match up particular partners.
How about Thrasios + Tymna the Weaver, where you are playing lots of mana creatures, like Deathrite Shaman, Noble Hierarch, Elvish Mystic, Fyndhorn Elves, Joraga Treespeaker, Llanowar Elves, Lotus Cobra, Priest of Titania, Bloom Tender, so that your creatures can potentially draw you cards or provide mana depending on board state? Would you consider this synergy or not?
You're excluding Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix because it doesn't add a color when partnered? Pretty sure she LOVES drawing extra cards and having a place to dump extra colorless mana.
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While I don't think the Partners are necessarily as good as the OP suggests I certainly don't think they are anywhere near as bad as you imply. Kydele + Wheel effects (like Arjun, the Shifting Flame?) can generate a CRAP ton of mana. (Arjun + Brainstorm to save cards you want from the Wheel effect = upwards of 10 cards and 10 mana for 1 blue?) The Partners just require some more creative thinking.
I would say Kydele is the closest to busted. She doesn't even need a partner (other than for the colors), just a Gemstone Array + Arjun and she can essentially draw and play your entire library nearly by herself.
For people who want an alternative to Dorin (for budget or whatever) you can play Sidar + Ikra.
Reyhan + Ishai so that you can place hold Ishai's counters in between deaths?
Tana + Sidar to go wide, low, and difficult to block
Tana + Ravos for a similar go wide strategy but with an anthem and card advantage in the Command Zone?
Vial Smasher is awesome. Volcanic Vision, Combustible Gearhulk, Riddle of Lightning, Thunderous Wrath? Add in a blue partner and you get access to Mercurial Chemister, Blast of Genius, and Interpret the Signs.
You just have to look a little deeper. They aren't so obvious on the face.
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Creative thinking and far more optimism than I can muster.
Oh, Kydele is really good. I just pointed out the costs of drawing a bunch of cards so that she can make mana. Basically, you use stuff like Tymna and draw a bunch of cards without spending mana, or go combo, cause spending a bunch of mana to draw cards with engines and spells typically isn't very mana efficient in the first place.
Ikra has 3 power. Sidar does nothing for Ikra. Though, I now see a case for adding Sidar to the 99 of a Doran deck. They are not a substitute for Doran, at all. Doran is good for high damage and speed while Ikra and Sidar are good at neither. Even just going for little creature aggro, it's not the best colors and only Sidar supports the strategy.
Which is basically what I was getting at. All the deck would be is voltron with an extra commander. You'd just be sitting back putting counters on Ishai, which does not make for an interesting or powerful pair(note the word pair). Reyhan doesn't do much for Ishai that Ishai couldn't do on its own.
I will stand by my stating that Tana is just really bad. It's a 2/2 trample for 4cmc that gives 1/1's based on how much combat damage she deals. Yes, Sidar makes it easier to swing, but either you want to deal commander damage or you want to make tokens. With Rith, Hazezon, and Marath, Tana + Sidar is generally subpar at dealing damage and making tokens.
Tana and ravos have synergy, but your still trying to get a 3/3 to connect on turn ~5. Tana is just too small for 4cmc. I'd rather have Spawnwrite, though it rarely ever sees play, it comes down sooner and get's out of control quicker.
I 100% agree on Vial Smasher, though I'd rather play Vial solo soley because none of the other B/R legends interest me.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
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---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
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-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
First off Akiri, Line-Slinger has First strike, not double strike. If she had double strike, then she'd be miles better than Jor Kadeen. Akiri is a voltron general, plain and simple, but Jor kadeen can go aggro with lots of little efficient creatures and swing for ridiculous amounts the turn he comes down or go voltron. Akiri takes quite a bit of buildup to make her starting 0 power into a powerhouse. Boros isn't lacking in voltron generals and she comes up fairly short against a lot of them, but she's interesting. She interests me, which makes her far better to me than she'd actually be. I'll definitely play her in the future, but she won't be anywhere near the best voltron I've ever played.
On Ikra Shadiqi, Reservoir or Sanguine bond could be ok. Ok at best, especially the hate that Sanguine Bond tends to draw. Having two cards that the commander works with doesn't make her viable. I've wanted to play Blind Seer for years, but there just isn't enough cards to support him and turning Hydroblast and Blue Elemental Blast into Vindicates just isn't enough. The problem is that you have to go aggro; she can't do anything else. A 3/7 typically can't do very much in combat either, though menace does help some. You can't even pair her with Sikar Kondo of Jamuraa as he doesn't even help her. She just doesn't have the support or damage that she needs outside of a Doran, the Seige tower deck.
Thinking on Ravos, I decided to do a bit of research on gatherer. It is very strange how rare and costly his second ability tends to be; It's actually easier and more mana efficient to pull things straight to the battlefield. Now, comparing him to Verdeloth the Ancient, Verdeloth makes his own tokens and has all of green's overrun effects backing them. Black/white just doesn't have that. Recurring creatures with Cast triggers seems to be his best feature, though cast triggers are fairly rare outside of Eldrazi.
Next comes Sidar Kondo. Tokens work with him, but the strategy just doesn't need him. With tokens, you win with sheer numbers or by making them all huge. Making a hundred or so tokens harder to block doesn't really do much to secure a win that the hundred tokens doesn't alredy have. Basically, he's not a token commander. Maybe lots of little creatures with "deals combat damage" triggers, but even then you still want a point in the game that you can make all of your creatures big enough to take someone out rather than slowly widdling people down with 5-8 power worth of Theiving Magpie. I am willing to recend my "It's just bad." and replace it with "It's just specific."
Last is Tymna. She IS significantly weaker than Edric 1.0. Edric has mana dorks, ramp, overruns, counterspells, far more draw, and extra turn cards. Tymna has next to none of that. Drawing 3 extra cards a turn is nowhere near bad, but in her colors you really have to earn those 3 cards. Edric is really explosive and is highly resistant to board wipes. There's a reason that Edric is banned in French(1v1) Commander and he's just as good in free for alls. If you read the other posts i've made, I've covered a couple of posibilities for her including pairing her with Kydele and having acess to everything that Edric does.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
I hope they make more partners, as I would like to be able to utilize more interesting combinations!
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Besides Ludevic and the boros commanders, I'm a fan of the direction they went. It's a bit conservative in most cases, but that's for the best when experimenting with a new mechanic like this. I DO wish there were more commanders like reyhan that had really heavy build-arounds, but overall they're a neat solution to the problem.
While some of them are definitely strong, I don't think they're anywhere near strong enough to upset the reigning kings of the competitive scene. And except ludevic, they're all at least playable in a casual environment. So I'd say they hit a good level of power, all things considered.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I think i'm going to give you the ravos argument, not because I agree with it, but solely because you can tack Thrasios onto literally any partner legend and magically make it better.
I will say that I prefer Kydele with Tymna to help pay for mass reanimation, extra turn, and pricy overrun spells.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
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Tymna is good. She's a worse, but still effective Edric with access to any colors.
Kydele has potential because you can cast a card draw spell and recoup most of the mana, but having to untap with her is an issue.
Thrasios is an infinite mana sink.
The rest are terrible.
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True. But they are still in different factions.
I have never seen a Doran voltron deck. It's kind of suprising actually. He's got the colors and the size to be good, but I just couldn't find a list. Checked every deck on MtgGoldfish and couldn't find one, and there isn't one on the Decklist database. I'm going to have to build that eventually.
Also, Sidar and Ikra just can't be voltron as neither are good enough in size, evasion, or protection(hexproof, etc). A build between the two would most likely be large toughness creatures with 2 or less power to work with both of their abilities. Looking at a bunch of lists, there are a surprising few that fit that that aren't walls. Sidr and Ikra don't build walls as walls only have 2(?) cards that let them attack and even then they won't deal damage without Doran; which makes Doran a better choice for Wall tribal. Going just with cheap efficient low power, high toughness creatures you still NEED doran or Assault Formation for the deck to stand a chance, making Doran the far better option as you'd always have him. I honestly can't think of a way to build for both Sidar and Ikra's strong suites where Doran wouldn't be the better option as regardless of how you build it Doran is still more necessary than those two. This is why I insist that they are better in the 99 of Doran, specifically Ikra or them specifically as a pair. Sidar has a few uses, namely getting other partners to connect more often, but requires a bit of a build around to really make him half decent at it.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
Aside from the 2 Izzet partners and the one Selesnya guy I think the rest of the partners are all "ok". You simply can't look at them in a vacuum because they just aren't meant to be used like that.
Shameless plug here : http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/764886-breed-lethality-with-ishai-ojutai-dragonspeaker
Without a doubt reading through peoples assessments of the partners, there is still a huge misunderstanding of each worth, and especially when teamed up.
I'm guessing that those with negative comments have not played them yet, and those with positive comments are people who have probably played with partners. This is no coincidence, you have to have experienced, play tested with them before you can understand the benefits and inherit power of playing with two commanders. Is it a biased assessment because its a new concept and I've been playing a lot with them? No, if they failed to deliver when I played these deck, I would have written that it they were not up to competitive play. Are they tier one Stax? No, but not all commander decks are tier one Stax, check out the primer list, people do play a variety of decks. Are they degenerate like an Animar deck? No. But we are also comparing against all the other primers, and as I say, there is a wide variety of decks, and partners as a unit out synergies a lot of them.
I also think a common mistake is that people are also assessing the partner commanders too much individually or compared to how well they synergies just together, and not what colors they can provide and synergies with the content of the 98. Two partners that don't have "obvious" synergies with each other, doesn't mean that the content of the deck doesn't tie them up together in really unexpectedly good ways, or just individually bring dynamics to the deck.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Which brings me into a question for me. If we are building around 98 cards how would that affect the deck building process in general? Think 2 less cards might not make a larger difference but also you might have a tighter pool to work with.
This is one reason that I'm so harsh on their designs. I typically spend about a week building a deck, culling the numbers from ~400 possible cards while deliberating on what cards are more effective vs just plain cooler. I have hundreds of cards that I really wish would make the cut, but then I have to drop yet another card for a second commander that may not even synergize with the first. I'm not willing to give up a card slot just for an extra color or two.
A good example is the Thrasios, Triton Hero deck I want to build; Thrasios, Training gounds, Heartstone and bunches of guildmages. Only problem is there's no partner that synergizes with him that adds even one extra color. I blatantly refuse to waste a card slot and while I could just chose a different legend (like Sliver queen) the deck would just lose what I want it to be.
The Partner mechanic wasn't a bad Idea, but the way they executed it was horrible. They all should have just read "Commander creatures you control have [this]." with their text box in [this]. It would have made it important to have two and play both of them.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
Cutting cards is hard. If you want to play four or five colors and one commander, then sure, do the usually thing and force yourself into Atraxa, Breya, Yidris, Saskia, Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis or Silver Queen, etc. But of course you're either even more boxed into an archetype or your commander is literally just used for the colors.
WotC could have printed a bunch more four color commanders, rather than partners, but they have given us more variety in card choice in selecting commanders as well as the content of the deck. Card choice is something that all magic players love, so I'm thankful that they have given us more options to choose.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
This:
None of the other partner legends synergize with Thasios. None of them. They don't have abilities that like or trigger on you drawing cards, putting lands into play, or have activated abilities that can be cost reducted or copied like Thrasios. Thrasios giving the other legends draw and ramp, making them better is not them synergizing with him. They do not synergize with him. They do not complement what he does.
The absolute best cases for "synergy" is Akiri or Silas that like artifacts, catering to Thrasios's love for cards like Rings of Brighthearth, Illusionist's Bracers, etc. They still don't synergize with him. Mana rocks are fairly unimportant in green, as it simply doesn't need them. Adding a bunch to the deck so that Akiri or Silas actually do something only takes away from Thrasios. In the end, you just end up with an Akiri or silas deck with Thrasios being the support card.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
How about Thrasios + Tymna the Weaver, where you are playing lots of mana creatures, like Deathrite Shaman, Noble Hierarch, Elvish Mystic, Fyndhorn Elves, Joraga Treespeaker, Llanowar Elves, Lotus Cobra, Priest of Titania, Bloom Tender, so that your creatures can potentially draw you cards or provide mana depending on board state? Would you consider this synergy or not?
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
R Norin the Wary: I've Got a Bad Feeling About This
UG Thrasios & Kydele: Knowledge is Power
RG Borborygmos Enraged: The Breaking of the World
BG The Gitrog Monster: All Glory to the Hypnotoad
WUR Zedruu the Greathearted: Endless Possibilities, One Outcome
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain: What's Dead May Never Die
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