I see your point but disagree. EDH is meant to be inclusive, but a T4 combo win is not inclusive.
I would only approach this point as a last ditch effort, but I think it's important to be prepared for this eventuality. I did say 'if needed'. Short of fighting fire with fire, if making changes to suit the meta still won't work (and I'm not saying it wouldn't), you'd hope that talking about what the group wants as a fun inclusive environment would be a reasonable step to take. Granted, there's a good and a bad way to do it, but running this scenario past the group should be a viable option when no other options are available.
Combo will always exist anywhere that it can be made. There is a decent amount of people that find it entertaining and will always migrate towards it. Attempting to ignore it or shame the person will never work.
You have to prepare for it and play around/through it. Balanced decklists will do that. Sure, they'll win some sometimes, but that's just the way it goes.
Playing teams can put a lot of pressure on the combo player. We also realize that we all have different decks and sometimes the combo deck gets played and that's fine because it's a different style and it keeps things interesting. I personally don't enjoy 3.5 hour games where we all become the strongest player at some point and eventually someone wins the game. Those are less fun than being combo'd out on turn 4.
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
I see your point but disagree. EDH is meant to be inclusive, but a T4 combo win is not inclusive.
I would only approach this point as a last ditch effort, but I think it's important to be prepared for this eventuality. I did say 'if needed'. Short of fighting fire with fire, if making changes to suit the meta still won't work (and I'm not saying it wouldn't), you'd hope that talking about what the group wants as a fun inclusive environment would be a reasonable step to take. Granted, there's a good and a bad way to do it, but running this scenario past the group should be a viable option when no other options are available.
I totally get the "if needed" part. But I think saying "that last ditch effort is a great idea!" is disingenuous. There's usually a really good reason these things are last ditch efforts. I just see this advice thrown around casually a lot, and it always frustrates me. At the end of the day, it's a less mature way of saying "no, we don't like how you play so you can't play with us." That's what you should be saying to be people when you can't reconcile differences.
Not directed @Toctheyounger77, but I'd stay away from people who think that you need to "stoop to their level" when trying to keep up with a competitive meta. Combo is a part of magic. It just is. It's not a lesser form of magic than Midrange.
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Currently Playing: R8whackR WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
When it combo there are really only two answers
1) Play a faster combo deck
-or-
2) Play a heavier control deck
That is it, really your only options. You can get lucky in multiplayer by being the least threatening target, then come in from behind and pull a win off... but that is not the same thing, its luck, not an answer.
I found my two answrs to control heavy deck have been Super fast aggro purphy deck and Super heavy control U or UR decks. They are the decks that allowed me to be a Titan at my LGS. I stopped being a titan when i toned down my decks. (Also erayo got banned)
...This is also why i built an oppressive deck specifically designed to play solitaire. If i have to play against combo decks that my usual decks do not match up to, I'll play a deck that holds more power. One that puts them on the receiving end of being underpowered. (And if this fails, i will just rebuild my Arcum or Nin deck. Infinite damage, infinite turns, infinite mana, Disk lock)
With people like that, especially turn 4 four infinite wombo-combos that "kill" the table in some fashion a good way to deal with them is to say something along the lines of "Yep, you won, we're going to play out the game" after essentially sitting out the majority few games they "won" they'll come around.
Another way is to use a league style points system and make infinite combos worth negative points.
A last ditch effort: House ban infinite combos!
I really don't recommend you stoop to their level, your decks will get expensive and unfun to combat their decks. Whats worse than playing at a table with two combo decks? Playing at a table with two combo decks and a stax deck.
We switch up decks almost every round when we play, everyone has at least 3 decks to play with. It's just when one person decides to play combo, the other person pulls out there combo deck too. It's really hard to disrupt two combo decks!
I actually really like the idea of the point system. That sounds fun! I don't think everyone would agree to ban or give negative points for combo, there's 4 people in our group and 2 of us like them, haha. I don't always dislike combo either, sometimes they are fun late game after everyone had some impact on the board.
Lately i've been pulling out my Nath Stax deck when they play combo actually, and that's the best way to dismantle their combos more often than not.
Right, so if they just always pull out the same decks each time somebody picks a combo deck, then you could just make a entirely new deck, to literally counter what they are doing.
I think probably a good deck will be a prison type deck in white and blue using Grand Arbiter Augustin IV. A lot of these combo decks, run light on disruption, and most of it is in creature ETB, etc with Animar and Selvala. Unless you can tell me if they run lots of instants and sorcery removal? Melek is a non-creature deck for the most part, but the prison type deck should slow them down lots.
Cards like Humility and Portcullis just absolutely shut these decks down.
I think the mass creatures are going to be good in the deck because the 1-3 mana spot removal creature kill cards will hopefully buy enough time to setup for the the 4-6 mana mass removals.
Is making a whole new commander deck something you'd be interested in? It would actually be a good exercise for your group in general that their are match-ups to beat combo decks, if they plan on not interacting much.
I would only approach this point as a last ditch effort, but I think it's important to be prepared for this eventuality. I did say 'if needed'. Short of fighting fire with fire, if making changes to suit the meta still won't work (and I'm not saying it wouldn't), you'd hope that talking about what the group wants as a fun inclusive environment would be a reasonable step to take. Granted, there's a good and a bad way to do it, but running this scenario past the group should be a viable option when no other options are available.
You have to prepare for it and play around/through it. Balanced decklists will do that. Sure, they'll win some sometimes, but that's just the way it goes.
Playing teams can put a lot of pressure on the combo player. We also realize that we all have different decks and sometimes the combo deck gets played and that's fine because it's a different style and it keeps things interesting. I personally don't enjoy 3.5 hour games where we all become the strongest player at some point and eventually someone wins the game. Those are less fun than being combo'd out on turn 4.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
I totally get the "if needed" part. But I think saying "that last ditch effort is a great idea!" is disingenuous. There's usually a really good reason these things are last ditch efforts. I just see this advice thrown around casually a lot, and it always frustrates me. At the end of the day, it's a less mature way of saying "no, we don't like how you play so you can't play with us." That's what you should be saying to be people when you can't reconcile differences.
Not directed @Toctheyounger77, but I'd stay away from people who think that you need to "stoop to their level" when trying to keep up with a competitive meta. Combo is a part of magic. It just is. It's not a lesser form of magic than Midrange.
R8whackR
WUBGAtraxa Stax-Superfriends *Under Construction*WUBG
1) Play a faster combo deck
-or-
2) Play a heavier control deck
That is it, really your only options. You can get lucky in multiplayer by being the least threatening target, then come in from behind and pull a win off... but that is not the same thing, its luck, not an answer.
I found my two answrs to control heavy deck have been Super fast aggro purphy deck and Super heavy control U or UR decks. They are the decks that allowed me to be a Titan at my LGS. I stopped being a titan when i toned down my decks. (Also erayo got banned)
...This is also why i built an oppressive deck specifically designed to play solitaire. If i have to play against combo decks that my usual decks do not match up to, I'll play a deck that holds more power. One that puts them on the receiving end of being underpowered. (And if this fails, i will just rebuild my Arcum or Nin deck. Infinite damage, infinite turns, infinite mana, Disk lock)
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
We switch up decks almost every round when we play, everyone has at least 3 decks to play with. It's just when one person decides to play combo, the other person pulls out there combo deck too. It's really hard to disrupt two combo decks!
I actually really like the idea of the point system. That sounds fun! I don't think everyone would agree to ban or give negative points for combo, there's 4 people in our group and 2 of us like them, haha. I don't always dislike combo either, sometimes they are fun late game after everyone had some impact on the board.
Lately i've been pulling out my Nath Stax deck when they play combo actually, and that's the best way to dismantle their combos more often than not.
I think probably a good deck will be a prison type deck in white and blue using Grand Arbiter Augustin IV. A lot of these combo decks, run light on disruption, and most of it is in creature ETB, etc with Animar and Selvala. Unless you can tell me if they run lots of instants and sorcery removal? Melek is a non-creature deck for the most part, but the prison type deck should slow them down lots.
Cards like Humility and Portcullis just absolutely shut these decks down.
You can run your own non-creature based combos like: (Rest and Peace and Helm of Obedience), (Mana Severance and Goblin Charbelcher) as win cons.
You will still have all the slow down cards like:
+ Rule of Law
+ Ethersworn Canonist
+ Eidolon of Rhetoric
+ Spirit of the Labyrinth
+ Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
+ Thalia, Heretic Cathar
Lots of creature kill cards specifically for Animar, Melek, and Selvala, Explorer Returned
+ Council's Judgment (this is not targeted so can get around Animar protection)
+ Pongify
+ Rapid Hybridization
+ Reality Shift
+ Gilded Drake - control their commander is sometimes more powerful than removal as it makes them have to have an answer to your control
+ Mind Harness - same as above and this hits all 3 combo commanders, so the upkeep cost should give you enough time to slow down their busted plans
+ Psionic Blast
+ Curse of the Swine
+ Ixidron
+ Wrath of God
+ Supreme Verdict
+ Austere Command
+ Terminus
I think the mass creatures are going to be good in the deck because the 1-3 mana spot removal creature kill cards will hopefully buy enough time to setup for the the 4-6 mana mass removals.
Is making a whole new commander deck something you'd be interested in? It would actually be a good exercise for your group in general that their are match-ups to beat combo decks, if they plan on not interacting much.
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
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---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith