As for Akiri, Cranial Plating's also a strong effect that people forget about in this format due to its (previously) singleton nature.
I do not believe I have ever seen Cranial Plating be overlooked, and in fact play it in Commander myself.
I am curious though how you are including it in a deck - yes, Akiri, Line-Slinger allows you to include a third or fourth color, but that is not what this thread is about.
Yet another thread about Boros being not good enough, and I frankly don’t think that it has anything to do with the weakness of the colors. It seems that for some reason, unexplainably, people really want Boros to work like Blue or Green. You don’t have those colors in a Boros deck, guys. That established, you should probably be measuring Boros against the other non-Green, non-Blue decks.
Nobody ever complains that there aren’t enough good Rakdos generals, but there aren’t. Maybe Olivia is playable.
Same thing with Orzhov, although Commander 2015 was nice. Teysa 1.0 is decent, but not as good as any other general that is part of a 2-card combo. The others are just way too demanding, don’t do enough, or are too expensive. And, no one ever gripes that these color combinations rely too much on artifact mana, need MLD to be competitive, or any of the other complaints Boros gets.
And if you queue into random games, you will probably see 3-4 Boros and Orzhov decks each before you see one Rakdos deck. And people who are tired of losing with the low-impact, highly dependent Orzhov generals might try a Boros general that is good at attacking.
So, I don’t think it has anything to do with the colors being bad. It’s that they’re good enough that people start wishing they were better. And if you want to try a Boros deck that is not Aurelia, then play Avacyn 2.0, Jor Kadeen, or Munda Ambush Leader. Those are all powerful enough, and are way different from the Voltron plan.
I think the issue is less with boros commanders being bad - they're about as good as one can reasonably expect in terms of simply generating a lot of damage. I don't think anyone is saying "we need aurelia again, but this time she gets TWO extra combat steps!"
What we want, at least I think, is boros commanders that do different stuff and don't suck. Examples being Basandra, Depala, and Munda himself. Basandra is a cool design, but sucks because its "no spells" ability nerfs RW harder than any other color combo. Basandra really bums me because she was so close to being awesome and very Boros, they just made her too crappy. Depala is also super sweet, CA but in a RW way, but sucks because dwarves and vehicles aren't viable in commander, and really only a few of each are even playable. Munda, similarly, supports a barely-existant tribe - there are a decent number of RW allies, but few of them are worth playing considering that Munda doesn't even generate CA with them, just filtering so you can hit more of your crappy allies instead of actual good cards. So he's both weak and supporting a bad tribe.
If Munda did soldiers and/or put them into hand, if Depala did equipment and soldiers instead of vehicles and dwarves, or if Basandra was opponents-only instead of all players, I wouldn't be complaining. But all the non-combat boros commanders are horrible trash - not even in a "well, they're not great, but they're at least decent" but in a "you can't even really build a deck with them" kind of way. How are you supposed to build a depala or Munda deck that's even close to serious? All the things they play with are basically vanilla garbage. Technically they're legends but they're basically limited-only.
Rakdos isn't great either, but it's got commanders that do things that don't suck and have variety. They've got wort (tribal synergy for a tribe that actually exists!), Rakdos 2, olivia 2, Mogis, Kaervek, Grenzo, and Bladewing are all pretty strong and do a wide variety of things.
All I'll say is that if they hadn't felt the need to arbitrarily 'simplify' the rules for transform and hadn't done away with how stacked transformation triggers used to work, Archangel Avacyn would be a very cool burst-damage combo commander in Boros.
I still view the change as uncalled for, nobody for whom the interactions would be confusing was going to be setting up situations where they mattered.
My only issue with boros is that all of it's commanders fall under "big dumb idiot aggro"
whil many people might argue that's boros's thing, I still see no reason it couldnt have an artifact or enchantment centered general that isn't just "herp derp play these types of cards and i get bigger/double strike/both". Kalemne in theory gives you a power 5 theme, but realistically, she has double strike and its just faster to play low to the ground buffs and equipment for the cheap easy kill. Brion Stoutarm probably has the strongest "Theme" in boros, which is basically "Fling Big Things, one shot people" and that's actually rather depressing.
A multiplayer victory has to exist beyond simply beating your opponent, there has to be a mutual enjoyment of everyone involved. If you win the game and everyone else is miserable then you've still lost. What gets played is irrelevant.
I would love to see a Red and White Commander that fulfills a sort of Zur the Enchanter esque role but for Equipment. Something like:
~ 1RWW
Legendary Creature - Human Soldier
Haste (Instead if Flying)
Whenever ~ attacks, search your library for an Equipment card with converted mana cost 3 or less, put it onto the Battlefield attached to a creature you control, then shuffle your library.
2/2
Obviously, this is just from the top of my head. I'm not sure what an appropriate cost for something like this should be or whether giving it Haste or not is a good idea. I would just really love to see a RW Equipment version of Zur.
Anyways, if this was a thing, would anyone else play it? Could it be broken? Or do you think it could be totally reasonable, given any appropriate tweaks? Do you think it could make Boros more exciting?
I would love to see a Red and White Commander that fulfills a sort of Zur the Enchanter esque role but for Equipment. Something like:
~ 1RWW
Legendary Creature - Human Soldier
Haste (Instead if Flying)
Whenever ~ attacks, search your library for an Equipment card with converted mana cost 3 or less, put it onto the Battlefield attached to a creature you control, then shuffle your library.
2/2
Obviously, this is just from the top of my head. I'm not sure what an appropriate cost for something like this should be or whether giving it Haste or not is a good idea. I would just really love to see a RW Equipment version of Zur.
Anyways, if this was a thing, would anyone else play it? Could it be broken? Or do you think it could be totally reasonable, given any appropriate tweaks? Do you think it could make Boros more exciting?
the problem is that Zur is already wicked op. Something like that would be wicked broken fast. Turn 4 tutor for whatever sword you need, auto equip, now you have 4 Unblockable coming at your face. Next turn tutor another sword. Heck, you could easily have 3 or 4 swords already (turn 2 tutor with Stoneforge, turn 3 tutor and play sword turn 4 play general swing and potentially equip the other sword). The auto equip may be a bit much. Unless it was on damage vs on attack.
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Thing is, I don't think it's even as bad as Zur. Sure it could grab Equipment, but even that's extremely limited compared to what Zur can already do. Do you truly think that any <=3CMC equipment this hypothetical creature could pull out is anywhere near as broken as Zur pulling out Necropotence? The fact that Zur already exists makes me believe a creature like this could very easily exist as well.
In addition to that, Zur is in not only White, but Black and Blue, which simply gives it access to much more powerful cards in general than Red and White.
So we’re tired of Boros generals being big, dumb attackers, but the next idea in line is an equipment tutoring general? Like that would make everyone happy? You can understand how I just don’t get the argument.
The Boros colors suck, but Aurelia is too awesome for her own good. We don’t need Boros generals that are better, we need CA, so let’s brainstorm something that is better than just a good attacker because it also makes CA when it attacks. So forth.
I can maybe name 5-6 generals in this format that are as good at attacking, and you know, being creatures as what Boros has available. But for some reason, opinion is that this color combination will be incomplete as long as it lacks for a general like Azami, Lady of Scrolls.
For some colors like Izzet, Dimir, etc, I am always hopeful that a new attacking general will be released with the new sets. But if the attacking guilds are incomplete without generals like Sygg, River Cutthroat, where does that leave us? If players are still unsatisfied with Boros, expectations must be just way too high.
My post wasn't an attempt at solving "The Boros Problem". It was a sincere idea I'd like to discuss regarding a potential RW Commander that happens to fit within the "We want a RW Commander that isn't so boring" category. And it's not as if we don't already have equipment tutoring in these colors anyways. Equipment is very much a strong theme for Red and White, and a general that tutors for them seems like it should come natural. Zur tutors Enchantments, Sisay tutors Legendaries, Tazri tutors Allies, etc.
It gives the Boros colors something fun, and competitive even.
Equipment itself involves attacking. There are very few equipments that still contribute their fullest (Illusionist's Bracers, etc) when your guy is standing back untapped. Not to mention, the most widely played Equipment in the format involve on damage triggers - Swords, Jitte, etc
If people want to do something other than attack, there are plenty of guilds to do that with. Boros doesn't have to be another one of them.
Equipment itself involves attacking. There are very few equipments that still contribute their fullest (Illusionist's Bracers, etc) when your guy is standing back untapped. Not to mention, the most widely played Equipment in the format involve on damage triggers - Swords, Jitte, etc
If people want to do something other than attack, there are plenty of guilds to do that with. Boros doesn't have to be another one of them.
Hence why, even more so, that a RW Equipment Zur fits so beautifully, while also being more exciting than just having double strike and lifelink.
Equipment itself involves attacking. There are very few equipments that still contribute their fullest (Illusionist's Bracers, etc) when your guy is standing back untapped. Not to mention, the most widely played Equipment in the format involve on damage triggers - Swords, Jitte, etc
If people want to do something other than attack, there are plenty of guilds to do that with. Boros doesn't have to be another one of them.
Hence why, even more so, that a RW Equipment Zur fits so beautifully, while also being more exciting than just having double strike and lifelink.
Sadly not THAT much more exciting because, the deck will play the same every single time. It will be, Fetch Sword of X and Y of whatever colors you need at the time OR Feast and Famine if you are not too worried about color protection right there. Then you just drop an Armagheddon and GG xD.
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Well sure it may not be exciting for the receiving player at least, but as a Sisay player myself, I have a blast pulling out the same creatures game after game.
Regardless, I've actually made a separate thread for the discussion on RW Equipment Zur. I don't want to hijack this thread with too much talk about it.
Equipment itself involves attacking. There are very few equipments that still contribute their fullest (Illusionist's Bracers, etc) when your guy is standing back untapped. Not to mention, the most widely played Equipment in the format involve on damage triggers - Swords, Jitte, etc
If people want to do something other than attack, there are plenty of guilds to do that with. Boros doesn't have to be another one of them.
I think the motivation for an equipment-focused commander is less about not being involved in combat, and more about not being simply "deal more damage".
I mean, let's look at boros' legendaries.
Adriana - deal more damage when you attack.
agrus kos - deal more damage when you attack.
anax and cymede - deal more damage when you attack.
anya, merciless angel - just a beater that deals damage when it attacks.
aurelia, the warleader - deal more damage when you attack (also get more attack/damage triggers, which is part of why she's the best boros commander)
Basandra, battle seraph - totally original and cool, but horrible.
brion stoutarm - deal more damage (at least you don't have to attack?)
depala, pilot examplar - totally original and cool, but horrible.
gisela, blade of goldlight - deal more damage
iroas, god of victory - be better at attacking
jor kadeen, the prevailer - deal more damage when you attack
kalemne, disciple of iroas - just a beater that deals damage when it attacks
munda, ambush leader - totally original and cool, but horrible.
razia, boros archangel - totally original and cool, but horrible.
tajic, blade of the legion - just a beater that deals damage when it attacks
Akiri, line slinger - just a beater that deals damage when it attacks
bruse tarl - deal more damage when you attack
So we can see that, thus far, every single boros commander falls into one of 2 categories:
those that deal damage (to players only, unless they block)
those that suck
That's your problem in a nutshell. Basically all the commanders that aren't just there to deal damage are garbage - sure, Aurelia gets more attack triggers, the double strikers can trigger swords/jitte twice, tajic works ok with board wipes, gisela has synergy with burn - but their core functionality is basically just "deal more damage to players", which is (1) horrible in a format with 120 enemy life, and (2) boooooooring.
Tutoring equipment a la SFM, drawing equipment a la depala, equipping equipment a la auriok windwalker, reducing equip costs a la puresteel paladin, doing something (besides deal damage to a player) when you play an equipment also a la puresteel paladin, providing non-PT bonuses to equipped creatures a la stonehaven outfitter, anything along those lines would give us something really cool and original for RW that doesn't ONLY involve dealing damage to players in a 40 life multiplayer format. Equipment is a good way to give RW card advantage/tutoring/mana/etc without breaking the color pie. And sure, a lot of equipment only benefits attacking, but there's a lot of equipment and players could surely find cool ways to use it besides just beating down.
I don't like equipment-zur too much because I do suspect it'd be very linear.
Just for lulz, here's my current dream-commander for boros:
________________________________________
Sir Boros, the Sweetness 2RW
Legendary Creature - Human Knight
When ~ enters the battlefield, Search your library for an equipment card and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library. 3: attach target equipment to target creature. (could be changed to "equipment you control"/"creature you control" to avoid certain shenanigans if he's a little too much fun with pariah's shield or whatever)
first strike
_________________________________(2/2)__
In addition to Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer, I think Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas is underappreciated. Even if you completely ignore the experience mechanic which makes an early-game commander scale into the late game, its CMC of 4 is extremely relevant on a (permanent) creature with so much damage potential.
A lot of the Kalemne hate comes from the inherent antagonism of her two abilities: Usually you don't have many creature cards in a Voltron deck other than ETB triggers (e.g., Stoneforge Mystic) and hatebears, possibly Gisela, Blade of Goldnight if you can afford her. But the entire reason you're getting more experience counters pushes you to Voltron. Plus, "creatures with CMC 5 or greater" isn't really a RW thing. They can swing that way, but usually with green's help to actually cast them or some means of cheating them into play.
Anyway, I think RW's big problem is the dearth of card draw and tutors. White has a few tutors, and red has some card draw, but you know how it is.
Actually, there are some options for developers here. Quite a few of the power cards in affinity (Cranial Plating, Moriok Rigger, Disciple of the Vault, Arcbound Ravager) could be red (ignoring AR's modular). They're also broken af, which is the main reason Wizards doesn't do that. But they might not be so broken in Highlander, and affinity in general isn't a problem in Legacy, so printing powered-down versions of them could possibly be a thing.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I disagree about the affinity cards. All of those are pretty horrible in commander (even ravager isn't very good without significant support - which to be fair, he would receive as a commander). And I don't think rigger was ever good?
It's also outside of RW's color pie. Red has artifact synergy - white generally does not. They have equipment-specific synergy, but for artifacts at large I hardly see any.
In addition to Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer, I think Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas is underappreciated. Even if you completely ignore the experience mechanic which makes an early-game commander scale into the late game, its CMC of 4 is extremely relevant on a (permanent) creature with so much damage potential.
A lot of the Kalemne hate comes from the inherent antagonism of her two abilities: Usually you don't have many creature cards in a Voltron deck other than ETB triggers (e.g., Stoneforge Mystic) and hatebears, possibly Gisela, Blade of Goldnight if you can afford her. But the entire reason you're getting more experience counters pushes you to Voltron. Plus, "creatures with CMC 5 or greater" isn't really a RW thing. They can swing that way, but usually with green's help to actually cast them or some means of cheating them into play.
The main thing about Kalemne is that you really don't have to play her as voltron *or* as stompy. She scales so well with double strike that just getting one or two experience counters over the course of the whole game is enough to make her a beast. You can play a primary aggro strategy with voltron backup and still do just fine with her. Double strike means that she doesn't need much voltron support to become a beast, and she doesn't need any of first strike, double strike, or vigilance from equipment.
Red and white both get artifact synergy. White actually gets it more, but red gets equipment synergy, "sacrifice an artifact", and "when an artifact goes to the graveyard", with the occasional artifact recursion.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Red and white both get artifact synergy. White actually gets it more, but red gets equipment synergy, "sacrifice an artifact", and "when an artifact goes to the graveyard", with the occasional artifact recursion.
Point me to any white card that has synergy with non-equipment artifacts and isn't either from a super old set, or from an artifact-themed set where every color is getting artifact synergy. I'm pretty sure the only arguable exception is the esper cards, but if that's your evidence, you'd have to put black on the same footing and white, and blue is unquestionably higher. So then you're looking at RW being basically #2-3 and #4 at artifact synergy. Surely there are colors better suited to it - like blue + ANYTHING. Plus we've already gotten not one, but two RW legends with artifact synergy (albeit boring synergy).
Equipment synergy, on the other hand, is virtually nonexistent outside of RW. Black and green have essentially nothing and blue only has 2 equipment theft cards. Red has a decent number (6+) and white has a ton (20+). It seems like a no-brainer area of overlap, yet 17 RW legends and nothing. Instead we've gotten bad artifact synergy TWICE(???).
The argument "why not just play Aurelia or Gisela" is true, but a bad reason to call Boros bad. You could say the same thing about nearly every color combination. Why not just play Lyzolda? Why not just play Meren? There will always be the S tier Commanders but I assume we play different Commanders for diversity, yes? It seems most agree there is diversity, just that it sucks. So the complaint isn't power level, or diversity, but having power level distributed among the diversity. I don't disagree, I just think that's how Magic is. There will always be cards that are similar, different, weak, strong. Boros has interesting cards so pick a Commander and have fun with what Boros has to offer.
If I was in charge of printing a Boros legend, I would put Commune with Lava on a stick. Maybe it would read like Prossh, exile cards for the amount of mana spent to cast it. Exile card advantage will always be my favorite mechanic.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Funniest part is, they've printed more RW legends than any other enemy color pair, and yet it's still by far the worst and least diverse.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I do not believe I have ever seen Cranial Plating be overlooked, and in fact play it in Commander myself.
I am curious though how you are including it in a deck - yes, Akiri, Line-Slinger allows you to include a third or fourth color, but that is not what this thread is about.
A Dying Wish
To Rise Again
Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Nobody ever complains that there aren’t enough good Rakdos generals, but there aren’t. Maybe Olivia is playable.
Same thing with Orzhov, although Commander 2015 was nice. Teysa 1.0 is decent, but not as good as any other general that is part of a 2-card combo. The others are just way too demanding, don’t do enough, or are too expensive. And, no one ever gripes that these color combinations rely too much on artifact mana, need MLD to be competitive, or any of the other complaints Boros gets.
And if you queue into random games, you will probably see 3-4 Boros and Orzhov decks each before you see one Rakdos deck. And people who are tired of losing with the low-impact, highly dependent Orzhov generals might try a Boros general that is good at attacking.
So, I don’t think it has anything to do with the colors being bad. It’s that they’re good enough that people start wishing they were better. And if you want to try a Boros deck that is not Aurelia, then play Avacyn 2.0, Jor Kadeen, or Munda Ambush Leader. Those are all powerful enough, and are way different from the Voltron plan.
What we want, at least I think, is boros commanders that do different stuff and don't suck. Examples being Basandra, Depala, and Munda himself. Basandra is a cool design, but sucks because its "no spells" ability nerfs RW harder than any other color combo. Basandra really bums me because she was so close to being awesome and very Boros, they just made her too crappy. Depala is also super sweet, CA but in a RW way, but sucks because dwarves and vehicles aren't viable in commander, and really only a few of each are even playable. Munda, similarly, supports a barely-existant tribe - there are a decent number of RW allies, but few of them are worth playing considering that Munda doesn't even generate CA with them, just filtering so you can hit more of your crappy allies instead of actual good cards. So he's both weak and supporting a bad tribe.
If Munda did soldiers and/or put them into hand, if Depala did equipment and soldiers instead of vehicles and dwarves, or if Basandra was opponents-only instead of all players, I wouldn't be complaining. But all the non-combat boros commanders are horrible trash - not even in a "well, they're not great, but they're at least decent" but in a "you can't even really build a deck with them" kind of way. How are you supposed to build a depala or Munda deck that's even close to serious? All the things they play with are basically vanilla garbage. Technically they're legends but they're basically limited-only.
Rakdos isn't great either, but it's got commanders that do things that don't suck and have variety. They've got wort (tribal synergy for a tribe that actually exists!), Rakdos 2, olivia 2, Mogis, Kaervek, Grenzo, and Bladewing are all pretty strong and do a wide variety of things.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I still view the change as uncalled for, nobody for whom the interactions would be confusing was going to be setting up situations where they mattered.
Most Used (of many dozens) EDH Decks:
Brago, King Eternal - Stax
Grenzo, Dungeon Warden - Aggro Combo
Wort, the Raidmother - Spellslinger Swarm Control
Animar, Soul of Elements - Tempo Combo
Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder - Spellslinger
Exodia the Forbidden One:
Oona, Queen of the Fae - Combowins.dec
whil many people might argue that's boros's thing, I still see no reason it couldnt have an artifact or enchantment centered general that isn't just "herp derp play these types of cards and i get bigger/double strike/both". Kalemne in theory gives you a power 5 theme, but realistically, she has double strike and its just faster to play low to the ground buffs and equipment for the cheap easy kill. Brion Stoutarm probably has the strongest "Theme" in boros, which is basically "Fling Big Things, one shot people" and that's actually rather depressing.
~ 1RWW
Legendary Creature - Human Soldier
Haste (Instead if Flying)
Whenever ~ attacks, search your library for an Equipment card with converted mana cost 3 or less, put it onto the Battlefield attached to a creature you control, then shuffle your library.
2/2
Obviously, this is just from the top of my head. I'm not sure what an appropriate cost for something like this should be or whether giving it Haste or not is a good idea. I would just really love to see a RW Equipment version of Zur.
Anyways, if this was a thing, would anyone else play it? Could it be broken? Or do you think it could be totally reasonable, given any appropriate tweaks? Do you think it could make Boros more exciting?
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
In addition to that, Zur is in not only White, but Black and Blue, which simply gives it access to much more powerful cards in general than Red and White.
The Boros colors suck, but Aurelia is too awesome for her own good. We don’t need Boros generals that are better, we need CA, so let’s brainstorm something that is better than just a good attacker because it also makes CA when it attacks. So forth.
I can maybe name 5-6 generals in this format that are as good at attacking, and you know, being creatures as what Boros has available. But for some reason, opinion is that this color combination will be incomplete as long as it lacks for a general like Azami, Lady of Scrolls.
For some colors like Izzet, Dimir, etc, I am always hopeful that a new attacking general will be released with the new sets. But if the attacking guilds are incomplete without generals like Sygg, River Cutthroat, where does that leave us? If players are still unsatisfied with Boros, expectations must be just way too high.
It gives the Boros colors something fun, and competitive even.
If people want to do something other than attack, there are plenty of guilds to do that with. Boros doesn't have to be another one of them.
Hence why, even more so, that a RW Equipment Zur fits so beautifully, while also being more exciting than just having double strike and lifelink.
Sadly not THAT much more exciting because, the deck will play the same every single time. It will be, Fetch Sword of X and Y of whatever colors you need at the time OR Feast and Famine if you are not too worried about color protection right there. Then you just drop an Armagheddon and GG xD.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Regardless, I've actually made a separate thread for the discussion on RW Equipment Zur. I don't want to hijack this thread with too much talk about it.
I mean, let's look at boros' legendaries.
Adriana - deal more damage when you attack.
agrus kos - deal more damage when you attack.
anax and cymede - deal more damage when you attack.
anya, merciless angel - just a beater that deals damage when it attacks.
aurelia, the warleader - deal more damage when you attack (also get more attack/damage triggers, which is part of why she's the best boros commander)
Basandra, battle seraph - totally original and cool, but horrible.
brion stoutarm - deal more damage (at least you don't have to attack?)
depala, pilot examplar - totally original and cool, but horrible.
gisela, blade of goldlight - deal more damage
iroas, god of victory - be better at attacking
jor kadeen, the prevailer - deal more damage when you attack
kalemne, disciple of iroas - just a beater that deals damage when it attacks
munda, ambush leader - totally original and cool, but horrible.
razia, boros archangel - totally original and cool, but horrible.
tajic, blade of the legion - just a beater that deals damage when it attacks
Akiri, line slinger - just a beater that deals damage when it attacks
bruse tarl - deal more damage when you attack
So we can see that, thus far, every single boros commander falls into one of 2 categories:
those that deal damage (to players only, unless they block)
those that suck
That's your problem in a nutshell. Basically all the commanders that aren't just there to deal damage are garbage - sure, Aurelia gets more attack triggers, the double strikers can trigger swords/jitte twice, tajic works ok with board wipes, gisela has synergy with burn - but their core functionality is basically just "deal more damage to players", which is (1) horrible in a format with 120 enemy life, and (2) boooooooring.
Tutoring equipment a la SFM, drawing equipment a la depala, equipping equipment a la auriok windwalker, reducing equip costs a la puresteel paladin, doing something (besides deal damage to a player) when you play an equipment also a la puresteel paladin, providing non-PT bonuses to equipped creatures a la stonehaven outfitter, anything along those lines would give us something really cool and original for RW that doesn't ONLY involve dealing damage to players in a 40 life multiplayer format. Equipment is a good way to give RW card advantage/tutoring/mana/etc without breaking the color pie. And sure, a lot of equipment only benefits attacking, but there's a lot of equipment and players could surely find cool ways to use it besides just beating down.
I don't like equipment-zur too much because I do suspect it'd be very linear.
Just for lulz, here's my current dream-commander for boros:
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Sir Boros, the Sweetness 2RW
Legendary Creature - Human Knight
When ~ enters the battlefield, Search your library for an equipment card and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library.
3: attach target equipment to target creature. (could be changed to "equipment you control"/"creature you control" to avoid certain shenanigans if he's a little too much fun with pariah's shield or whatever)
first strike
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EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
A lot of the Kalemne hate comes from the inherent antagonism of her two abilities: Usually you don't have many creature cards in a Voltron deck other than ETB triggers (e.g., Stoneforge Mystic) and hatebears, possibly Gisela, Blade of Goldnight if you can afford her. But the entire reason you're getting more experience counters pushes you to Voltron. Plus, "creatures with CMC 5 or greater" isn't really a RW thing. They can swing that way, but usually with green's help to actually cast them or some means of cheating them into play.
Anyway, I think RW's big problem is the dearth of card draw and tutors. White has a few tutors, and red has some card draw, but you know how it is.
Actually, there are some options for developers here. Quite a few of the power cards in affinity (Cranial Plating, Moriok Rigger, Disciple of the Vault, Arcbound Ravager) could be red (ignoring AR's modular). They're also broken af, which is the main reason Wizards doesn't do that. But they might not be so broken in Highlander, and affinity in general isn't a problem in Legacy, so printing powered-down versions of them could possibly be a thing.
On phasing:
I disagree about the affinity cards. All of those are pretty horrible in commander (even ravager isn't very good without significant support - which to be fair, he would receive as a commander). And I don't think rigger was ever good?
It's also outside of RW's color pie. Red has artifact synergy - white generally does not. They have equipment-specific synergy, but for artifacts at large I hardly see any.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
On phasing:
Equipment synergy, on the other hand, is virtually nonexistent outside of RW. Black and green have essentially nothing and blue only has 2 equipment theft cards. Red has a decent number (6+) and white has a ton (20+). It seems like a no-brainer area of overlap, yet 17 RW legends and nothing. Instead we've gotten bad artifact synergy TWICE(???).
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
If I was in charge of printing a Boros legend, I would put Commune with Lava on a stick. Maybe it would read like Prossh, exile cards for the amount of mana spent to cast it. Exile card advantage will always be my favorite mechanic.
cEDH: [G(U/R) Animar] - [(U/B)(G/W) Redless Wheels] - [(G/U)(W/B) Redless Pod] - [(B/G)W Ghave Metapod]