Another year, another batch of commanders. Some good, some real, real bad. Here's my breakdown.
1) Silas Renn, Seeker Adept
effectiveness: B
coolness: A-
Artifact recursion? Deathtouch? Low Cost? Great colors? Sounds a lot like one of my all-time favorites, G-to-the-lissa. That said, he's let down by only being able to trigger once or twice in a turn cycle, generally, and being forced to cast the artifacts immediately, sometimes awkward for control colors.
2) Atraxa, Praetor's Voice
effectiveness: B+
coolness: B+
Proliferate is such a flexible keyword, and her colors are oh-so-sweet. Her abilities are just fine too, and good at protecting planeswalkers, although that's certainly only one of many archetypes she could fit into.
3) Tymna the Weaver
effectiveness: A-
coolness: C+
She's sort of like a bigger sygg, or a smaller 1-sided edric, working best with small evasive creatures and getting sweet, sweet draw. 3 cards a turn is definitely powerful, especially on a mere 3-drop that starts working immediately, but maybe not as cool as some of my other favorite commanders this release.
4) Reyhan, Last of the Abzan
effectiveness: B
coolness: B
One of the most build-around-able of the release, and with a pretty good payoff. Not necessarily the most original thing to synergize with in BG, but still a cool and powerful commander.
5) Ravos, Soul Tender
effectiveness: B-
coolness: B
BW really scored big this year. Ravos has 2 powerful abilities, however they are limited by being stapled to a rather frail body. The first is hard to rely on, and the second is pretty slow. Still, a fun support option.
6) Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder
effectiveness: B+
coolness: C
While I don't like cascade as a mechanic, or randomness in general, the fact that you get to determine the cmc of the cascading spells makes him much more interesting to me than maelstrom wanderer. There might be some ways to build the deck to guarantee certain combo pieces, or at least be able to rely on certain effects. But then, he also needs to get through combat, so that may not be easy to guarantee, and cascade will generally only work on your own turn. At least unlike Ravos he can accelerate his plans with haste. He is growing on me.
7) Breya, Etherium Shaper
effectiveness: B-
coolness: B-
The design isn't particularly inspired, but it is the sort of thing I like. What lets it down is the activation cost. It's too damn high. Requiring tons of artifacts AND mana is brutal. I wish she had lower p/t and a lower cost. Virtually no method of producing artifacts is going to feel efficient if you're just feeding them to Breya.
8) Thrasios, Triton Hero
effectiveness: B-
coolness: C+
Thrasios is a support commander imo, not so much a turn-2 play as a turn 10, when he gets you back into the game by spewing cards and mana with the resources you've already built. Not super exciting, but a good support option.
9) Kraum, Ludevic's Opus
effectiveness: B-
coolness: C+
Basically the same as Thrasios. What he lacks in reliability, he makes up for in face-beating.
10) Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix
effectiveness: B
coolness: C-
A lot of people think she's going to be insane. Personally I'm not that excited. A mana dork commander that only produces colorless? Idk, seems boring to me. The ability is interesting but the payoff isn't. We'll see if she's actually the combo machine people think she'll be, but a fragile 4-drop with a tap ability? Idk man.
11) Tana, the Bloodsower
effectiveness: D
coolness: B-
A 2/2 for 4 is bad. The ability is pretty cool, and has potential with voltron strategies, but even then it doesn't make her any better at actually voltronning, and doesn't seem worth the effort required in trying to make a 2/2 trample for 4 into a bruiser.
12) Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker
effectiveness: C
coolness: D+
He's a big dumb air beater. That's about it. Definitely a support commander imo.
13) Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa
effectiveness: D
coolness: C
Generally not super powerful, although he might have more mileage if you want to help your enemies hurt each other. At least his "hug" ability is unlikely to backfire. And his flavor is cool, which is why he's 13 instead of 18.
14) Vial Smasher the Fierce
effectiveness: C-
coolness: D
As I said before, I don't like randomness. Which is why, if I play Vial Smasher, it'll be once the game is 1v1, and he'll be a support commander only.
15) Saskia, the Unyielding
effectiveness: D+
coolness: D
My favorite argument against Saskia: I don't play Lava Axe in limited. And I don't play commanders who's only function is dealing damage to players. Doubly so when they only work if you're getting in already. Aggro needs to do a lot better than this, imo.
16) Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder
effectiveness: C+
coolness: F-
He's probably a fine support commander, but I'm furious that WotC gave us such a retread of last year's horrible RW commanders. For god's sake, give us something new.
17) Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper
effectiveness: D
coolness: D
For the same reason I don't like Saskia, I don't like Ikra. Lifegain only? Big pass. BG has gotten insane legends over the past year though, so it's probably best they get a stinker.
18) Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis
effectiveness: D-
coolness: B+ for progressiveness, F for popularizing group hug
Group hug isn't an archetype. If it doesn't have a plan to win that its cards are helping it achieve, it's not a strategy. You can put 99 basic lands in a pile and call it an archetype, but I will not. That said, at least they benefit you slightly more. Not enough more, though, not by a longshot. And you can't turn them off for the players who are pulling ahead. Awful.
19) Akiri, Rope Thrower
effectiveness: D+
coolness: F+
Just like Kalemne pissed me off until I saw Anya was even worse, so Bruse and Akiri. At least she fits a CMC Boros didn't have before? At least she has artifact synergy, even if it's total garbage? I've got nothing. She's awful. It's like they're taunting us. They give us arguably the best example of a noncombat RW legend in Kaladesh, and it only works with card types that barely exist. Then they give us 4 garbage legends that all do the same stupid crap in the product ostensibly designed directly for us. It blows my mind.
20) Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist
effectiveness: F-
coolness: F-
I would rather have nothing on the table than have Ludevic on the table. That's how bad Ludevic is. The ability isn't even required, so he doesn't even work with Nekusar. There will never, ever be a reason to play this card.
I personally think Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder is probably the "coolest" of the set. The power of cascade and the ability to build around it is actually fun. In a certain build, you are getting less randomness and get ridiculous value. I'd give him a A- for coolness.
Ive lurked these forums on and off for years. Mainly for spoilers, since the people of this site seem incapable of being pleased with anything that isnt the an izzet legend to break artifacts over the knee with. So Reddit or something are usually better for talking about cards instead of all the ways wizards not printing a cyclonic rift legendary is a crushing disappointment. So I just made this account to ask OP a very simple question:
Do you actually have fun?
I mean this cardboard is VERY expensive, but it is still cardboard. It doesn't do anything other than give you the ability, or maybe excuse, to sit across a table from someone else with expensive cardboard and hang out.
Ive met plenty of salty neckbeards who refuse to have fun, hate interaction, and most of all "losing", but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Are you actually enjoying yourself? Or is it just expensive solitaire in a smelly room?
Ive lurked these forums on and off for years. Mainly for spoilers, since the people of this site seem incapable of being pleased with anything that isnt the an izzet legend to break artifacts over the knee with. So Reddit or something are usually better for talking about cards instead of all the ways wizards not printing a cyclonic rift legendary is a crushing disappointment. So I just made this account to ask OP a very simple question:
Do you actually have fun?
I mean this cardboard is VERY expensive, but it is still cardboard. It doesn't do anything other than give you the ability, or maybe excuse, to sit across a table from someone else with expensive cardboard and hang out.
Ive met plenty of salty neckbeards who refuse to have fun, hate interaction, and most of all "losing", but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Are you actually enjoying yourself? Or is it just expensive solitaire in a smelly room?
An account all for me? I'm flattered.
First of all, let me say that I overall like this commander release. I think partner is sweet and the people who wanted 20 4 color legends were out of their minds (although getting an errata for the nephilim would have been nice). I also don't really want "cyclonic rift as a commander" as you put it. I don't really like it when wotc gives us commanders that break the format wide open, or cards in general that break the format wide open. And I generally try to avoid playing broken strategies even though I have all the cards. I definitely don't hate interaction, basically all my decks are built to interact as much as possible. not sure where you'd get that idea from. I've made decks that are basically nothing but removal and a few wincons. And sometimes a hippo.
As far as the beard thing - have you been talking to Taylor? OK, fine, it's been a few weeks since I trimmed it, I'll get around to it tonight. Or maybe this weekend. Sometime. And I don't know why it gets so salty. I guess I just forget to wash it some days and I eat too many chips or something. Anyway the dog seems to prefer it that way.
But to the meat of the question: do I have fun? Yes - but there are conditions. Conditions, I might add, that aren't really tied to, for example, limited. Which is why I've been playing a lot of limited and not as much EDH recently. EDH can be difficult to get a decent game with, on account of the variance in deck construction, skill levels of players, etc. I've had games where my opponents teamed up against me even when I was already behind, I've had games where most of the table was playing jank and one guy was playing hermit druid combo, I've had games where one deck was able to fight through the hate of the entire table for the entire game (and sometimes that player was me...oops), I've had games where people helped the guy who was going to win "just to get it over with", I've had games that lasted 8 hours (actually that was kind of fun, in an insane way), I've had games that ended on turn 4 because some idiot was playing collective voyage and immediately gave the win to the guy on his left.
All this to say that - a lot of games of EDH can be non-games. So I don't like it when WotC prints cards that, for example, promote group hug, because I've had some truly stupid games vs group hug decks that kingmade someone else. I don't like it when they print broken stuff. I also don't like it when they don't print anything good at all for a long time, and the meta gets stale. I don't think that's the case here - I think there's lots of cool stuff to be had. But I also think that RW is in a tailspin and hasn't had an interesting commander for years.
And none of this has anything to do with evaluating cards. Evaluating cards is fun 100% of the time, which is why I do it. Even though I'll never play Ludevic, he's almost been worth it in entertainment value to bash him. New set releases are some of my favorite times of the year because I love evaluating stuff, and I love testing things out of the first time. That's a little more applicable to limited than commander of course, but it's still a good time. So if it seems like I'm angry, it's probably just because I'm having fun (and maybe getting a little too into) evaluating cards.
Except boros. I'm legit mad about Boros. I mean seriously. What even.
Ive lurked these forums on and off for years. Mainly for spoilers, since the people of this site seem incapable of being pleased with anything that isnt the an izzet legend to break artifacts over the knee with. So Reddit or something are usually better for talking about cards instead of all the ways wizards not printing a cyclonic rift legendary is a crushing disappointment. So I just made this account to ask OP a very simple question:
Do you actually have fun?
I mean this cardboard is VERY expensive, but it is still cardboard. It doesn't do anything other than give you the ability, or maybe excuse, to sit across a table from someone else with expensive cardboard and hang out.
Ive met plenty of salty neckbeards who refuse to have fun, hate interaction, and most of all "losing", but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Are you actually enjoying yourself? Or is it just expensive solitaire in a smelly room?
You know the funny thing is, I absolutely can see you as the type who wants to have fun playing Craw Wurm.dec. The kind of guy who says "Guys, we just want to have fun, but your version of fun better match my version of fun or else no one is going to have fun here. The format is for playing cards that aren't good anywhere else, but you better not be playing with the cards that aren't good anywhere else that I don't like. I'm especially looking at you, Zur the Enchanter."
The people who are the Fun Police are always the guys trying to tone DOWN the power of the group, not the people who want to actually raise the bar higher.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
Thank you, I understand wanting Boros to have more diversity. I make them but always end up with MLD. Ive only ever had exponentially more fun with group hug decks in the mix but those extremely rare where I've played. Same with chaos actually.
Interaction meant with other players, not in a solitaire way.
I was really hoping decks like the them would help the meta a bit because the gf and I are on the verge of selling everything and quitting.
I dont think theres anything more tedius than playing against more Grand Arbiter, Ertai, Ertai, Nekusar, and Espergoodstuff people. Ever since I moved back to southern california I have had fun maybe a couple of times and thats basically all there is. Instead of just a couple tryhards or rich kids in the store packing the mana crypts and mana drains its somehow normal for every deck here to be running the most broken everything they can. The meta is horrendous. Just a bunch of fat dudes and wierdos with completely foiled good stuff decks cyclonic rifting until someone has enough islands to win. Which is the whole problem I guess. Apparently only weirdos play magic in southern california.
I mean I win more than enough of the time... Its just not satisfying at all. Nobody is laughing, nobody is smiling, nobody is happy... I dont get it. Just watching an espergoodstuff pissing contest while whoever is in the lead occasionally looks at spells with a dismisive smirk muttering "Ill allow it" to every spell cast as if we needed permission from Oona herself.
Im not asking people to be creative if they can only netdeck, not asking for half the deck to be pet cards. Just fun man.
Mtg salvation posters seemed similiar at a glance and I figured I might glean perspective,
TL;DR my meta is depressing but maybe so is magic.
4 Colour Generals;
-Proliferate Monster (Not-Red): Very dull commander, just simic value with 4 keywords stapled on. At least it is not as obnoxious as Leovold.
-Punchyman (Not-Blue): I like this commander a lot. EDH needs every incentive you can get for combat damage and a lot of ways to help remove that 40 life to help bring combat to parity with combo. This commander is great for both of these reasons. Could become a general for my Beard Tribal deck.
-Artifact Girl (Not-Green): It's ok. I mainly am not a fan of the art. Could be a very good toolbox; the -4/-4 ability in particular looks sweet. But I'm not in a hurry to play her.
-Maelstorm Wanderer 2.0 (Not-White): This guy was my pick based on the art. Since I've seen the mechanics I've been torn. I'm generally not a fan of the Maelstorm Wanderer style "dump all the cards on the table" style decks. However it could be fun to give that a go, and god knows Riku with added black will likely be a monstrously powerful deck.
-Fabulous Dudes (Not-Black): I like this general a lot. Like OP I think group hug can go die in a fire. Unlike OP I don't think this is a purely group hug general. It is my opinion that once players start drawing 2 cards per turn, MtG changes in a very positive way. Things actually happen rather than just sitting on good stuff in your hand. Non UB decks can now compete with card draw to a far greater degree. Answers for infinite combo are more likely to be in somebodies grip than they otherwise would be. Will be giving this general serious consideration.
Partners
Disclaimer: I'm a big fan of partners and think that on the whole, these generals are amongst the best designed in the game. They are pretty much exactly the level of power I want to see in EDH generals and the combat focus given to them is a huge + in my books.
-Big RW Doublestrike dude: I think this is a very powerful partner. I am usually against RW getting just combat generals, and it feels very strange to say that the Red White option in a cycle is amongst the best, but this guy is a beast and works great to add a combat element to another partner who provides more draw or whatever. One of the few Partner's I will jump at the chance to include in the 99.
-Small RW Artifact girl: The worst partner by far, she simply does not do anything except unlock RW as a colour pair.
-UW Birdman: Rather dull general that is good for unlocking UW or in a voltron deck. Dull is not always bad, particularly with a partner deck. I think he makes a great sword carrier - will likely become a partner general for my esper equipment deck, paired either with the smaller BW or with the smaller RU for a 4th colour.
-GB Abzan +1+1 guy: A solid choice for the right kind of deck - particularly any kind of GBx fatties deck doing the whole golgari thing. Kind of builds himself though. Limited individually but a very satisfactory partner. Also solid in the 99.
-GB Lifegain Naga: She's ok. Very ok, but just ok. Obviously a great pick for something like Doran. Not a bad design at all and can potentially give a ton of life, but not my favourite choice. Would play in a 99.
-Small UG Merfolk: I think they did a great job of building a fair UG general here. A little underwhelming, but combos well with the other UG partner and is a great way to add UG to your colour pie without much of a commitment to the general.
-Larger UG Kruphix girl: She's ok. Does a good job of feeling UG without the attached easy-mode. I feel the UG partners break the trend of the other partners by being best paired with one another rather than with an additional colour.
-Small RB Goblin: Love it. Immediately see the potential of this guy and the small izzet guy. Burn those life totals down. The randomness is not really an issue if you look at him as a way to simply reduce the life on the table. Solid in the 99 of many decks as well - likely my Mogis group slug LD deck will get one of these.
-Small BW Fate girl: Fantastic general! Great job of adding draw to a partner without making it overbearing. Will likely be a general of my Esper equipment decks, paired either with birdman or with small izzet dude to add a colour.
-Larger BW Theros Guy: I think this is a great general for the right kind of deck. Recursion to hand is such an underrated ability IMO, most people seem to discount it entirely in favour of recursion to field the way they ditch looting for proper draw. It's just a matter of time before I use this as a general of something.
-Small RU Politics guy: Fantastic. Goes in the same categories of the BW fate girl and the not-blue 4 colour dude - great incentive for damaging those stupid-huge life totals. Will definitely see play in at least one of my decks
-Larger RU draw-zombie: I haven't really thought about how often this will trigger. At first glance seems like one of the less exciting options.
-GW weenie knight: I like this guy in a certain kind of deck - little dudes that pump after not being blocked. First thought was to pair with one of the GB for an Abzan soldier deck, but then I remembered that Abzan is all about boosting before they swing. I'd say this is one of the less potent partners, but not a bad option simply for getting colours for your deck.
-UB Artifact guy: I wanted to like this but ultimately don't. Like OP this reminded me of Glissa the traitor more than anything else. Really screams build around, but doesn't give enough payoff for it. Maybe paired up with the BW hit/draw or some such?
-RG token girl: Very mediocre. I guess built right she could make a ton of tokens? In fairness I'm just not excited about this one and so have not given it that much thought.
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EDH RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
You know the funny thing is, I absolutely can see you as the type who wants to have fun playing Craw Wurm.dec. The kind of guy who says "Guys, we just want to have fun, but your version of fun better match my version of fun or else no one is going to have fun here. The format is for playing cards that aren't good anywhere else, but you better not be playing with the cards that aren't good anywhere else that I don't like. I'm especially looking at you, Zur the Enchanter."
The people who are the Fun Police are always the guys trying to tone DOWN the power of the group, not the people who want to actually raise the bar higher.
I'd say that's a bit far. I personally avoid commanders like Zur because they're so well-trodden. And I don't really love playing against most Zur decks because it literally becomes "you must remove this commander every time he hits the battlefield or you'll lose". Not that I won't play against them, but I won't necessarily love it, especially if there's multiple decks like that at a table. I do generally build decks that combat that sort of thing, but I'd rather I didn't have my hand forced on removal every single time. I'm certainly not advocating craw wurm.dec, but if you're only using the top 5% of the available commanders, I feel like you're missing out on a lot of fun possibilities.
Not saying that having a competitive deck is bad, just that maybe having multiple options is better.
Thank you, I understand wanting Boros to have more diversity. I make them but always end up with MLD. Ive only ever had exponentially more fun with group hug decks in the mix but those extremely rare where I've played. Same with chaos actually.
Interaction meant with other players, not in a solitaire way.
I was really hoping decks like the them would help the meta a bit because the gf and I are on the verge of selling everything and quitting.
I dont think theres anything more tedius than playing against more Grand Arbiter, Ertai, Ertai, Nekusar, and Espergoodstuff people. Ever since I moved back to southern california I have had fun maybe a couple of times and thats basically all there is. Instead of just a couple tryhards or rich kids in the store packing the mana crypts and mana drains its somehow normal for every deck here to be running the most broken everything they can. The meta is horrendous. Just a bunch of fat dudes and wierdos with completely foiled good stuff decks cyclonic rifting until someone has enough islands to win. Which is the whole problem I guess. Apparently only weirdos play magic in southern california.
I mean I win more than enough of the time... Its just not satisfying at all. Nobody is laughing, nobody is smiling, nobody is happy... I dont get it. Just watching an espergoodstuff pissing contest while whoever is in the lead occasionally looks at spells with a dismisive smirk muttering "Ill allow it" to every spell cast as if we needed permission from Oona herself.
Im not asking people to be creative if they can only netdeck, not asking for half the deck to be pet cards. Just fun man.
Mtg salvation posters seemed similiar at a glance and I figured I might glean perspective,
TL;DR my meta is depressing but maybe so is magic.
Do you mean interaction in like a play/counterplay way? Or like a talking way? Might want to specify because it's unclear to me at this point. I'm generally in favor of both though.
Personally I enjoy playing a controlling type of deck, so maybe I'm the sort of person you're talking about? But I do think commander is more fun if you're talking. Plus if you don't talk, how can you manipulate people into doing your nefarious bidding?
But yeah, I sympathize with the difficulty of finding a good meta. Although of course not everyone is looking for the same thing.
-Fabulous Dudes (Not-Black): I like this general a lot. Like OP I think group hug can go die in a fire. Unlike OP I don't think this is a purely group hug general. It is my opinion that once players start drawing 2 cards per turn, MtG changes in a very positive way. Things actually happen rather than just sitting on good stuff in your hand. Non UB decks can now compete with card draw to a far greater degree. Answers for infinite combo are more likely to be in somebodies grip than they otherwise would be. Will be giving this general serious consideration.
-Small RU Politics guy: Fantastic. Goes in the same categories of the BW fate girl and the not-blue 4 colour dude - great incentive for damaging those stupid-huge life totals. Will definitely see play in at least one of my decks
Not sure I follow on the non-black commander. You don't like group hug but you do like everyone drawing 2 cards a turn? That's usually exactly what group hug is...?
Of course if you want to use Ludevic I won't stop you, but I think your argument is pretty flawed. It triggers off just a single damage, so they're more likely to take one damage off a pain land or fetch land (which you can't even do - he might actually be BETTER if he didn't say "other than you", hilariously enough), or attack with a flying token, than to actually go majorly into the red zone - at least edric motivates taking all-out swings. And secondly, it doesn't forbid them from attacking you with everything else, they still get a card unless you throw your horrible commander under the bus. Hardly seems like politics.
Comparing him to Tymna is kind of ridiculous - tymna not only doesn't give your enemies nearly-free draw, she also can trigger three times instead of once, AND she gives you the cards during second main. AND she has lifelink. Honestly the existence of Tymna makes Ludevic look even more incredible terrible than he would be in a vacuum.
i keep comming back and looking at herBreya, Etherium Shaper i mean shes kinda the best choice for all 4 artifact colors, running any of the partner combos just is lacking...
i mean we get all the most epic artifact stuff time sievegoblin welder
color combo is probably one of the best around grixis/america/esper hybrid all of which are amazing for commander with the exception of previous american generals
she can infect kill with her ability if you grant her it
for those who think red is *****
red has powerful stuff just not a lot and 1/4 of your colors is red so the stuff you run is incredibly powerful.
I mean that kinda response is the stuff im talking about. People on this site miss the whole point of edh so much that anyone not playing azami is playing 99 craw with petrogylphs wincon. Like combo is some sort of glorious master race when its really just picking oddball in goldeneye.
That response is indicative of a severe lack of "fun" since your volcan brain still cant process any other response than "git gud, cast omniscience, thin your paints"
I mean that kinda response is the stuff im talking about. People on this site miss the whole point of edh so much that anyone not playing azami is playing 99 craw with petrogylphs wincon. Like combo is some sort of glorious master race when its really just picking oddball in goldeneye.
That response is indicative of a severe lack of "fun" since your volcan brain still cant process any other response than "git gud, cast omniscience, thin your paints"
ive been looking for a voltron deck capable of keeping up with some of the faster stuff but it usually requires a board presence which gets wiped.
I'm not going to rank them all, but personally my favorite is Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - proliferate is a versatile ability (I've already built an infect list with her and it really helps speed various things up, including actually taking out an opponent) and her other abilities coupled with her 4/4 stats make for a powerful beatstick/roadblock.
Ydris, Maelstrom Wielder I think has the most potential to be broken - he's got a low enough CMC to be repeatedly re-cast if he gets destroyed and the ability to give all your spells cascade can potentially provide massive amounts of value.
Finally, Lady Gaga has some versatile abilities but for me is a bit underwhelming. It helps that she has an awesome color identity for an artifact deck and provides a sac outlet, though.
i'm with you on atraxa bant/bug/esper have been some of the strongest color pies in magic her ability is super flexible
i've never been into rug-ish things maelstrom wanderer did nothing for me
though i'm weird i enjoyed playing mishra of all things not even the good version
Honestly theres so many options for a voltron that you gotta give us a bit more than that if you expect a good answer. But if youre mainly worried about losing your stuff try Thrun or Wydwen I guess.
I don't rank, but I will talk about the generals I wish to use. Fair warning, I enjoy versatile generals more.
1) Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Proliferate is a versatile keyword, but Atraxa herself can be played as a voltron as well, open up to possibilities. Due to proliferate also works with tokens at times (some permanents create tokens base on it counters), Atraxa can be played as a Stax general also.
2) Breya, Etherium Shaper - I think her sac cost should be one artifact, not two, even if they had to raise the mana cost to compensate. On her own, Breya could only activate her ability once, which is her flaw. However, artifacts themselves open up to a spectrum of deck styles, Breya can easily sit there to digest left over artifacts for benefits. If you have a way to generate artifact tokens, all the better.
4) Silas Renn, Seeker Adept, Same with Vial Smasher, I'm impressed by Silas's ability to partner with other partners, and even by himself there are multiple ways to play him. Destroying his equipment would not completely stop him, and left unchecked he brings back dangerous combo pieces. And like Smasher, you can play Silas solo and still benefit from his abilities.
5) Reyhan, Last of the Abzan - Lore-gasm aside, Reyhan caught my eyes with her ability to benefit the field for free; you just need creatures you control to die, include herself. Reyhan works with many +1/+1 counter based strategies that she could either lead the team or be one of the 99, either way she leaves a mark. Incanur from this forum mentioned a wonderful Sultai combo with Reyhan and Silas, utilizing artifact modular creatures/effect.
EDIT: I just noticed that all these generals have Black in its color identity, guess that says a lot about me.
I'm going to separate the rankings into the regular 4-colored commanders and the 2-color Partner Commanders. I'll start with the 4-Colored ones.
5) Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis - I just don't like grouphug effects. This card gives all my opponents either an extra land-drop or an extra card, both dangerous things given I play in a rather competitive meta. It isn't worth drawing 2 cards or drawing 1 card and an extra land drop for myself most of the time. I can understand why people who like grouphug would like this though, it's just not for me, that's why it's ranked last (someone had to be last).
4) Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder - I do enjoy cascade to some degree and while some people will enjoy having B added to the mix, I see it as a clunkier (read: requires protection) version of Maelstrom Wanderer. I personally don't enjoy cascade that I would build a deck around it (My Wanderer is part of my Horde deck along with Maelstrom Nexus as a mini-theme) and adding a color doesn't really change my mind, let alone a clunkier one (I'll rather run a streamlined Wanderer if I had to do so, honestly). Its a repeated theme, so it doesn't score so high with me.
3) Breya, Etherium Shaper - Like Yidris, Breya is a very-much repeated theme and functionally is pretty much a giant Jitte (although being on a Commander instead of an equipment is more difference). However, unlike with Yidris, I've thought of "What if the Esper-Artifacts theme combined with the likes of Daretti?". So while predictable (and somewhat boring), it's at least fills a missing gap of desires.
2) Saskia the Unyielding - Saskia has a rather unique effect (I nearly misread it as Stuffy Doll the first time round), but she has her uses - she utilizes the protection of choosing a player to discourage all other players to not remove her (somewhat like Iona, but way less oppressive). Sure, if the chosen player can protect himself/herself well enough, then the most exposed player would also have incentive to remove Saskia (so as not to get attacked), but Saskia's ability plays around with politics quite well, especially for an aggro-focused Commander.
1) Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Proliferate. On a Commander. I always wanted to see Inexorable Tide in the Command Zone and this is the nearest we'll going to get it. It definitely helps out the missing "Superfriends" archetype (until an even more obvious one comes out in 4c/5c), but the simple fact that Proliferate is such a versatile mechanic that I wanted to just see it in the Command Zone. Her design may otherwise be uninspiring (she's basically goodstuff-abilities rolled into one), but like I said, I only really care for the Proliferate.
Now onto the 2c Partners... note that I'm judging each card individually without really taking into account the partnerships involved, because there's too many combinations to go through.
15) Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist - Just a disappointment all around. I don't like grouphug, but this tries to be one but just makes itself somehow worse than that - it encourages players to hurt themselves to draw a card, then encourages people to damage you instead of other players during your turn so that you won't get to draw your card. It doesn't convey the reclusive nature of the character quite as well because of this.
14) Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker - Legendary Taurean Mauler with flying (that's smaller and costs 4). For an Ojutai card, I would have expected some bonuses for casting noncreature spells as well (not necessarily prowess or limited to only you casting spells).
13) Akiri, Line-Slinger - Almost as boring as Ishai, but having a variable count on your own end as well as artifacts themselves could potentially form some better synergies than Ishai at the very least. I would still vastly prefer Jor Kadeen.
12) Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder - Like the above 2 cards, it's a bland design, but at least it has power and support which makes it a viable "generic support choice" at the very least.
11) Tana, the Bloodsower - Another rather boring design, but like Bruse, it has its support synergies and unlike Bruse it can exponentially grow on its own, so it's a tad better.
10) Vial Smasher the Fierce - Well, it's creative, but it's also random and demands expensive spells be cast first, so it's not very dependable and I don't like restrictions on top of randomness.
9) Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix - I know this is powerful, but it's also uninspiringly powerful. It's good at what it does (and what its colors do) and has the potential to be broken, but it's precisely that which gives me a slightly sour taste of the card as opposed to fun, innovative ones.
8) Kraum, Ludevic's Opus - It opens a new pathway for UR aggro (Mindwrack Liege, anyone?) and so while it's simple and occasionally effective, I like this for the new space it simply opens up.
7) Thrasios, Triton Hero - Like Kydele, it's rather uninspiring, but at least it's just moderate value (at a cost) with a lesser chance of breaking into two.
6) Tymna the Weaver - An interesting take on pain-card draw for WB that's dependent on multiplayer combat, especially with Myriad abilities (mainly just Blade of Selves). It may be a mish-mash of known abilities that not entirely fresh, but it's innovative in direction at least.
5) Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper - Friends with Doran and Assault Formation, but it does stack with lifelink and like Tymna, gives separate fragments of the game a twist by combining them together.
4) Ravos, Soultender - An anthem and a recursion put together in 1 for 5-mana in the Command Zone is simply value. It might be less innovative than Tymna and Ikra, but I'm letting Ravos ahead because these two abilities together seem to be the kind of abilities I (and some people) like to see in the Command Zone.
3) Silas Renn, Seeker Adept - Like Ravos, he's not particularly inspired but he's effective. While he has a slight chance of breaking (being artifact-related at all), I felt that requiring combat damage to a player (and having deathtouch to help in that) is a fair hoop to jump through. While I personally prefer Ravos more functionally, I gave Silas Renn a rank higher due to flavor (he was Tezzeret's nemesis in the earlier part of Tezzeret's life).
2) Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa - Probably the card with the best flavor/callback character, his ability is also good, although it does require some restrictive building around.
1) Reyhan, Last of the Abzan - Modular on all creatures is just... innovative and versatile, requires some building around but is more flexible than Sidar Kondo since +1/+1 counters are more common.
Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist - Just a disappointment all around. I don't like grouphug, but this tries to be one but just makes itself somehow worse than that - it encourages players to hurt themselves to draw a card, then encourages them to damage you during your turn so you don't get the card. It doesn't convey the reclusive nature of the character quite as well because of this.
I don't get the bolded part, if opponents hurt me during my turn, how does it stop me from drawing an extra card, as long as I damage one of them?
I agree that given the way Ludevic was portrayed in Innistrad stories, I expected better, flavor wise it is true that he takes inspiration at the cost of others, and he's also a teacher.
Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist - Just a disappointment all around. I don't like grouphug, but this tries to be one but just makes itself somehow worse than that - it encourages players to hurt themselves to draw a card, then encourages them to damage you during your turn so you don't get the card. It doesn't convey the reclusive nature of the character quite as well because of this.
I don't get the bolded part, if opponents hurt me during my turn, how does it stop me from drawing an extra card, as long as I damage one of them?
I agree that given the way Ludevic was portrayed in Innistrad stories, I expected better, flavor wise it is true that he takes inspiration at the cost of others, and he's also a teacher.
Oops that was a mistake on my part (while rushing through reviewing 20 of them and honestly some of them are close enough that their ranks are close enough to be swapped around). I've edited the original post so that the review doesn't look outright silly, but thanks for pointing that out.
EDIT: Oh wait, it encourages them to damage you if they had to damage someone, because if they damaged anyone else you'll get to draw a card without effort on your part. That was what I was trying to convey. I'm still mixed up after running through all those Commanders. Time to edit the original post again.
Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist - Just a disappointment all around. I don't like grouphug, but this tries to be one but just makes itself somehow worse than that - it encourages players to hurt themselves to draw a card, then encourages them to damage you during your turn so you don't get the card. It doesn't convey the reclusive nature of the character quite as well because of this.
I don't get the bolded part, if opponents hurt me during my turn, how does it stop me from drawing an extra card, as long as I damage one of them?
I agree that given the way Ludevic was portrayed in Innistrad stories, I expected better, flavor wise it is true that he takes inspiration at the cost of others, and he's also a teacher.
Oops that was a mistake on my part (while rushing through reviewing 20 of them and honestly some of them are close enough that their ranks are close enough to be swapped around). I've edited the original post so that the review doesn't look outright silly, but thanks for pointing that out.
EDIT: Oh wait, it encourages them to damage you if they had to damage someone, because if they damaged anyone else you'll get to draw a card without effort on your part. That was what I was trying to convey. I'm still mixed up after running through all those Commanders. Time to edit the original post again.
"At the beginning of each player's end step, that player may draw a card if a player other than you lost life this turn."
Only one player gets to draw the extra card at the beginning of his or her end step, and only if players other than you loses life. Therefore, Ludevic in fact encourages your opponent to attack each other for that extra card, because attacking you does not yield benefit from Ludevic.
Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder might be boring from a R/W design perspective, but he is probably the fastest Voltron Commander ever printed. Just pair him with Tymna the Weaver and you get a insanely fast, resilient, and grunty list.
3) Instant speed Entomb for cards like Glory and Filth. Both are so sick with both Commanders.
4) Cards like Phyrexian Reclamation to bypass Commander tax. The life cost is irrelevant.
5) Hall of the Bandit Lord life payment is also irrelevant. Not only are you bypassing Commander tax with recursion, but red has access to Slayers' Stronghold, Hanweir Battlements & Flamekin Village. At this point, you don't care about sorcery speed removal anymore because you just put Bruse back on the battlefield via recursion with haste the next turn...
6) Urborg + Coffers as just another way to make Commander Tax irrelevant.
8) As a Voltron list, you have two Commanders. Tymna can carry the above Lashwrithe and focus on one opponent, while Bruse another. Commander damage doesn't stack, but Bruse transfers doublestrike to Tymna too.
Bruse is so strong. I think the above is fantastic, but he is also amazing with Reyhan, Last of the Abzan (think scavenge) and Silas Renn, Seeker Adept (almost for colours alone, but Silas himself will do work too, deathtouch is a good keyword with certain equipment to clear defenders) as well.
I won't respond in regards to the rankings posted above, as I believe they are by and large inaccurate from an "Effectiveness" standpoint.
Maelstrom man has the potential to replace or sit next to Jeleva in T1 storm lists.
Breya may prove to be a T1 or T1.5 combo list.
Simic pairing may prove to do the same.
Atraxa is probably T2 as much as I want her to be more.
Everything else has a good chance of falling much lower.
Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder might be boring from a R/W design perspective, but he is probably the fastest Voltron Commander ever printed. Just pair him with Tymna the Weaver and you get a insanely fast, resilient, and grunty list.
In regards to this, I don't think that focusing two players at once is usually a good move. You have to spread your resources too thin, leave yourself open to overextension, and make all of the players at the table know you're coming for them. What you're suggesting also requires a fair level of setup. Moreover, entombing a mediocre evasion type creature is much worse than entombing and then reanimating the Iona's and Elesh Norns of the world.
I think a better pairing here would be anything else that provides some level of CA without the stipulation of attacking. The other Orzhov legend allows you to still run the great black draw spells, and maybe get some creatures back. Also a mild anthem is relevant when you're double striking. Both Izzet legends allow you to draw some cards, run countermagic, and plenty of draw spells. Hell, even the Rakdos guy is at least fun and flavorful. I think all four of those options are better than stipulating that you hit multiple players at a time and spread yourself too thin.
Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder might be boring from a R/W design perspective, but he is probably the fastest Voltron Commander ever printed. Just pair him with Tymna the Weaver and you get a insanely fast, resilient, and grunty list.
In regards to this, I don't think that focusing two players at once is usually a good move. You have to spread your resources too thin, leave yourself open to overextension, and make all of the players at the table know you're coming for them. What you're suggesting also requires a fair level of setup. Moreover, entombing a mediocre evasion type creature is much worse than entombing and then reanimating the Iona's and Elesh Norns of the world.
I think a better pairing here would be anything else that provides some level of CA without the stipulation of attacking. The other Orzhov legend allows you to still run the great black draw spells, and maybe get some creatures back. Also a mild anthem is relevant when you're double striking. Both Izzet legends allow you to draw some cards, run countermagic, and plenty of draw spells. Hell, even the Rakdos guy is at least fun and flavorful. I think all four of those options are better than stipulating that you hit multiple players at a time and spread yourself too thin.
No no, you misunderstand.
Tymna the Weaver, at minimum, is a Phyrexian Arena in the Command Zone for a Voltron list. Voltron lists attack and deal combat damage. That's how they win...
Running Filth (and Urborg) with Tymna the Weaver, just means cards like Lingering Souls are drawing you more cards... Saying I should be entombing Iona, Shield of Emeria instead of Filth is like saying I shouldn't play Voltron and at all, because Combo is more efficient. I'm not playing a list that wants to win via Iona, I'm playing a Voltron list that wants to win by Commander damage...
The whole having two Commanders attack thing is a option, not some sort of mandate I set down. Bruse will always be the more efficient Voltron attacker and should be focused on almost exclusively, but that doesn't mean if for whatever reason you smashed someone for 7 with a Lashwrithe equipped Tymna, that you cannot then just blink, attack or recast Bruse and grant her doublestrike instead to finish the job next turn herself.
If I add Ancient Tomb to all the fast mana, you are running 8 cards that can consistently allow a turn 2 Bruse or Tymna, followed by a turn 3 Bruse or Tymna. That is lighting quick Voltron speeds.
I've played Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas for a long time. Getting her down consistently turn 3 and attacking turn 4 is awesome for a Voltron list. Potentially a whole turn earlier for Bruse? Amazing.
Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder might be boring from a R/W design perspective, but he is probably the fastest Voltron Commander ever printed. Just pair him with Tymna the Weaver and you get a insanely fast, resilient, and grunty list.
In regards to this, I don't think that focusing two players at once is usually a good move. You have to spread your resources too thin, leave yourself open to overextension, and make all of the players at the table know you're coming for them. What you're suggesting also requires a fair level of setup. Moreover, entombing a mediocre evasion type creature is much worse than entombing and then reanimating the Iona's and Elesh Norns of the world.
I think a better pairing here would be anything else that provides some level of CA without the stipulation of attacking. The other Orzhov legend allows you to still run the great black draw spells, and maybe get some creatures back. Also a mild anthem is relevant when you're double striking. Both Izzet legends allow you to draw some cards, run countermagic, and plenty of draw spells. Hell, even the Rakdos guy is at least fun and flavorful. I think all four of those options are better than stipulating that you hit multiple players at a time and spread yourself too thin.
No no, you misunderstand.
Tymna the Weaver, at minimum, is a Phyrexian Arena in the Command Zone for a Voltron list. Voltron lists attack and deal combat damage. That's how they win...
Running Filth (and Urborg) with Tymna the Weaver, just means cards like Lingering Souls are drawing you more cards... Saying I should be entombing Iona, Shield of Emeria instead of Filth is like saying I shouldn't play Voltron and at all, because Combo is more efficient. I'm not playing a list that wants to win via Iona, I'm playing a Voltron list that wants to win by Commander damage...
The whole having two Commanders attack thing is a option, not some sort of mandate I set down. Bruse will always be the more efficient Voltron attacker and should be focused on almost exclusively, but that doesn't mean if for whatever reason you smashed someone for 7 with a Lashwrithe equipped Tymna, that you cannot then just blink, attack or recast Bruse and grant her doublestrike instead to finish the job next turn herself.
If I add Ancient Tomb to all the fast mana, you are running 8 cards that can consistently allow a turn 2 Bruse or Tymna, followed by a turn 3 Bruse or Tymna. That is lighting quick Voltron speeds.
I've played Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas for a long time. Getting her down consistently turn 3 and attacking turn 4 is awesome for a Voltron list. Potentially a whole turn earlier for Bruse? Amazing.
I don't misunderstand. If you're playing against two opponents, you're only giving ox mans double strike to one commander. If you begin killing one player more slowly, because you started focusing your efforts on another player, you're giving two players time to respond to your efforts, and now it's 2 on 1. Since you're incapable of taking out all opponents at once, you must choose the biggest threat, eliminate that player, and then choose the next biggest threat. Using bad cards for a bad strategy isn't going to make it better. Reanimating an Iona and locking the most threatening player out of the game, while eliminating them, or the next player is a more reliable way to get the damage through than crappy evasion cards, and a Phrexian Arena that relies on dealing combat damage to a player.
Oops that was a mistake on my part (while rushing through reviewing 20 of them and honestly some of them are close enough that their ranks are close enough to be swapped around). I've edited the original post so that the review doesn't look outright silly, but thanks for pointing that out.
EDIT: Oh wait, it encourages them to damage you if they had to damage someone, because if they damaged anyone else you'll get to draw a card without effort on your part. That was what I was trying to convey. I'm still mixed up after running through all those Commanders. Time to edit the original post again.
"At the beginning of each player's end step, that player may draw a card if a player other than you lost life this turn."
Only one player gets to draw the extra card at the beginning of his or her end step, and only if players other than you loses life. Therefore, Ludevic in fact encourages your opponent to attack each other for that extra card, because attacking you does not yield benefit from Ludevic.
Correct, so during Ludevic's controller's turn, Ludevic's controller gets to draw a card if another player was damaged - which means all his opponents have a common interest to have damage all redirected to Ludevic's controller instead so that Ludevic's controller doesn't draw a card. So if they were forced to have to deal damage to someone, they would be highly encouraged to deal damage to Ludevic's controller during his or her turn. They can't deal damage to themselves, because that would trigger Ludevic on Ludevic's controller's turn. I should have specified more clearly that I was referring to Ludevic's controller when it came to his or her turn (which was why I said "deal damage to you during your turn, because you are Ludevic's controller and dealing to anyone else means you draw a card).
What I'm trying to put is that the condition to draw a card if simply based on any player losing life (including themselves) except for Ludevic's controller, so the only way to prevent the card draw (which in the interest of all opponents not having their turn) if redirection is involved is to redirect it all to Ludevic's controller. I'm not talking about the person wanting to draw, I'm referring to his or her opponents. Wanting to draw is easy, wanting someone else to NOT draw is harder and the easiest solution means Ludevic's controller takes damage instead.
I mean that kinda response is the stuff im talking about. People on this site miss the whole point of edh so much that anyone not playing azami is playing 99 craw with petrogylphs wincon. Like combo is some sort of glorious master race when its really just picking oddball in goldeneye.
That response is indicative of a severe lack of "fun" since your volcan brain still cant process any other response than "git gud, cast omniscience, thin your paints"
My paints are thin enough to cover the walls, thank you very much.
You seem to think I, and other players like me act like we or our deck choice of Combo is some "Glorious Master Race" when the reality is that we want to have fun with EDH and we have fun by playing combo decks. You act like we pick Oddjob when really we're the ones getting kicked out of groups because we aren't playing Phantom Pistols on Waterworks on Halo.
If fun is your measure of worth of a player or a game, you need to sit down and analyze the statement of "Fun is Subjective". Multiple times, if needed.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
1) Silas Renn, Seeker Adept
effectiveness: B
coolness: A-
Artifact recursion? Deathtouch? Low Cost? Great colors? Sounds a lot like one of my all-time favorites, G-to-the-lissa. That said, he's let down by only being able to trigger once or twice in a turn cycle, generally, and being forced to cast the artifacts immediately, sometimes awkward for control colors.
2) Atraxa, Praetor's Voice
effectiveness: B+
coolness: B+
Proliferate is such a flexible keyword, and her colors are oh-so-sweet. Her abilities are just fine too, and good at protecting planeswalkers, although that's certainly only one of many archetypes she could fit into.
3) Tymna the Weaver
effectiveness: A-
coolness: C+
She's sort of like a bigger sygg, or a smaller 1-sided edric, working best with small evasive creatures and getting sweet, sweet draw. 3 cards a turn is definitely powerful, especially on a mere 3-drop that starts working immediately, but maybe not as cool as some of my other favorite commanders this release.
4) Reyhan, Last of the Abzan
effectiveness: B
coolness: B
One of the most build-around-able of the release, and with a pretty good payoff. Not necessarily the most original thing to synergize with in BG, but still a cool and powerful commander.
5) Ravos, Soul Tender
effectiveness: B-
coolness: B
BW really scored big this year. Ravos has 2 powerful abilities, however they are limited by being stapled to a rather frail body. The first is hard to rely on, and the second is pretty slow. Still, a fun support option.
6) Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder
effectiveness: B+
coolness: C
While I don't like cascade as a mechanic, or randomness in general, the fact that you get to determine the cmc of the cascading spells makes him much more interesting to me than maelstrom wanderer. There might be some ways to build the deck to guarantee certain combo pieces, or at least be able to rely on certain effects. But then, he also needs to get through combat, so that may not be easy to guarantee, and cascade will generally only work on your own turn. At least unlike Ravos he can accelerate his plans with haste. He is growing on me.
7) Breya, Etherium Shaper
effectiveness: B-
coolness: B-
The design isn't particularly inspired, but it is the sort of thing I like. What lets it down is the activation cost. It's too damn high. Requiring tons of artifacts AND mana is brutal. I wish she had lower p/t and a lower cost. Virtually no method of producing artifacts is going to feel efficient if you're just feeding them to Breya.
8) Thrasios, Triton Hero
effectiveness: B-
coolness: C+
Thrasios is a support commander imo, not so much a turn-2 play as a turn 10, when he gets you back into the game by spewing cards and mana with the resources you've already built. Not super exciting, but a good support option.
9) Kraum, Ludevic's Opus
effectiveness: B-
coolness: C+
Basically the same as Thrasios. What he lacks in reliability, he makes up for in face-beating.
10) Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix
effectiveness: B
coolness: C-
A lot of people think she's going to be insane. Personally I'm not that excited. A mana dork commander that only produces colorless? Idk, seems boring to me. The ability is interesting but the payoff isn't. We'll see if she's actually the combo machine people think she'll be, but a fragile 4-drop with a tap ability? Idk man.
11) Tana, the Bloodsower
effectiveness: D
coolness: B-
A 2/2 for 4 is bad. The ability is pretty cool, and has potential with voltron strategies, but even then it doesn't make her any better at actually voltronning, and doesn't seem worth the effort required in trying to make a 2/2 trample for 4 into a bruiser.
12) Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker
effectiveness: C
coolness: D+
He's a big dumb air beater. That's about it. Definitely a support commander imo.
13) Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa
effectiveness: D
coolness: C
Generally not super powerful, although he might have more mileage if you want to help your enemies hurt each other. At least his "hug" ability is unlikely to backfire. And his flavor is cool, which is why he's 13 instead of 18.
14) Vial Smasher the Fierce
effectiveness: C-
coolness: D
As I said before, I don't like randomness. Which is why, if I play Vial Smasher, it'll be once the game is 1v1, and he'll be a support commander only.
15) Saskia, the Unyielding
effectiveness: D+
coolness: D
My favorite argument against Saskia: I don't play Lava Axe in limited. And I don't play commanders who's only function is dealing damage to players. Doubly so when they only work if you're getting in already. Aggro needs to do a lot better than this, imo.
16) Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder
effectiveness: C+
coolness: F-
He's probably a fine support commander, but I'm furious that WotC gave us such a retread of last year's horrible RW commanders. For god's sake, give us something new.
17) Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper
effectiveness: D
coolness: D
For the same reason I don't like Saskia, I don't like Ikra. Lifegain only? Big pass. BG has gotten insane legends over the past year though, so it's probably best they get a stinker.
18) Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis
effectiveness: D-
coolness: B+ for progressiveness, F for popularizing group hug
Group hug isn't an archetype. If it doesn't have a plan to win that its cards are helping it achieve, it's not a strategy. You can put 99 basic lands in a pile and call it an archetype, but I will not. That said, at least they benefit you slightly more. Not enough more, though, not by a longshot. And you can't turn them off for the players who are pulling ahead. Awful.
19) Akiri, Rope Thrower
effectiveness: D+
coolness: F+
Just like Kalemne pissed me off until I saw Anya was even worse, so Bruse and Akiri. At least she fits a CMC Boros didn't have before? At least she has artifact synergy, even if it's total garbage? I've got nothing. She's awful. It's like they're taunting us. They give us arguably the best example of a noncombat RW legend in Kaladesh, and it only works with card types that barely exist. Then they give us 4 garbage legends that all do the same stupid crap in the product ostensibly designed directly for us. It blows my mind.
20) Ludevic, Necro-Alchemist
effectiveness: F-
coolness: F-
I would rather have nothing on the table than have Ludevic on the table. That's how bad Ludevic is. The ability isn't even required, so he doesn't even work with Nekusar. There will never, ever be a reason to play this card.
That's my list. What's yours?
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Niv-Mizzet Reborn
Feather, the Redeemed
Estrid, the Masked
Teshar
Tymna/Ravos
Najeela, Blade-Blossom
Firesong & Sunspeaker
Zur the Enchanter
Lazav, the Multifarious
Ishai+Reyhan
Click images for decks->
-Prime Speaker Vannifar
---------------------Will & Rowan Kenrith
Do you actually have fun?
I mean this cardboard is VERY expensive, but it is still cardboard. It doesn't do anything other than give you the ability, or maybe excuse, to sit across a table from someone else with expensive cardboard and hang out.
Ive met plenty of salty neckbeards who refuse to have fun, hate interaction, and most of all "losing", but I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.
Are you actually enjoying yourself? Or is it just expensive solitaire in a smelly room?
First of all, let me say that I overall like this commander release. I think partner is sweet and the people who wanted 20 4 color legends were out of their minds (although getting an errata for the nephilim would have been nice). I also don't really want "cyclonic rift as a commander" as you put it. I don't really like it when wotc gives us commanders that break the format wide open, or cards in general that break the format wide open. And I generally try to avoid playing broken strategies even though I have all the cards. I definitely don't hate interaction, basically all my decks are built to interact as much as possible. not sure where you'd get that idea from. I've made decks that are basically nothing but removal and a few wincons. And sometimes a hippo.
As far as the beard thing - have you been talking to Taylor? OK, fine, it's been a few weeks since I trimmed it, I'll get around to it tonight. Or maybe this weekend. Sometime. And I don't know why it gets so salty. I guess I just forget to wash it some days and I eat too many chips or something. Anyway the dog seems to prefer it that way.
But to the meat of the question: do I have fun? Yes - but there are conditions. Conditions, I might add, that aren't really tied to, for example, limited. Which is why I've been playing a lot of limited and not as much EDH recently. EDH can be difficult to get a decent game with, on account of the variance in deck construction, skill levels of players, etc. I've had games where my opponents teamed up against me even when I was already behind, I've had games where most of the table was playing jank and one guy was playing hermit druid combo, I've had games where one deck was able to fight through the hate of the entire table for the entire game (and sometimes that player was me...oops), I've had games where people helped the guy who was going to win "just to get it over with", I've had games that lasted 8 hours (actually that was kind of fun, in an insane way), I've had games that ended on turn 4 because some idiot was playing collective voyage and immediately gave the win to the guy on his left.
All this to say that - a lot of games of EDH can be non-games. So I don't like it when WotC prints cards that, for example, promote group hug, because I've had some truly stupid games vs group hug decks that kingmade someone else. I don't like it when they print broken stuff. I also don't like it when they don't print anything good at all for a long time, and the meta gets stale. I don't think that's the case here - I think there's lots of cool stuff to be had. But I also think that RW is in a tailspin and hasn't had an interesting commander for years.
And none of this has anything to do with evaluating cards. Evaluating cards is fun 100% of the time, which is why I do it. Even though I'll never play Ludevic, he's almost been worth it in entertainment value to bash him. New set releases are some of my favorite times of the year because I love evaluating stuff, and I love testing things out of the first time. That's a little more applicable to limited than commander of course, but it's still a good time. So if it seems like I'm angry, it's probably just because I'm having fun (and maybe getting a little too into) evaluating cards.
Except boros. I'm legit mad about Boros. I mean seriously. What even.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
You know the funny thing is, I absolutely can see you as the type who wants to have fun playing Craw Wurm.dec. The kind of guy who says "Guys, we just want to have fun, but your version of fun better match my version of fun or else no one is going to have fun here. The format is for playing cards that aren't good anywhere else, but you better not be playing with the cards that aren't good anywhere else that I don't like. I'm especially looking at you, Zur the Enchanter."
The people who are the Fun Police are always the guys trying to tone DOWN the power of the group, not the people who want to actually raise the bar higher.
Thank you, I understand wanting Boros to have more diversity. I make them but always end up with MLD. Ive only ever had exponentially more fun with group hug decks in the mix but those extremely rare where I've played. Same with chaos actually.
Interaction meant with other players, not in a solitaire way.
I was really hoping decks like the them would help the meta a bit because the gf and I are on the verge of selling everything and quitting.
I dont think theres anything more tedius than playing against more Grand Arbiter, Ertai, Ertai, Nekusar, and Espergoodstuff people. Ever since I moved back to southern california I have had fun maybe a couple of times and thats basically all there is. Instead of just a couple tryhards or rich kids in the store packing the mana crypts and mana drains its somehow normal for every deck here to be running the most broken everything they can. The meta is horrendous. Just a bunch of fat dudes and wierdos with completely foiled good stuff decks cyclonic rifting until someone has enough islands to win. Which is the whole problem I guess. Apparently only weirdos play magic in southern california.
I mean I win more than enough of the time... Its just not satisfying at all. Nobody is laughing, nobody is smiling, nobody is happy... I dont get it. Just watching an espergoodstuff pissing contest while whoever is in the lead occasionally looks at spells with a dismisive smirk muttering "Ill allow it" to every spell cast as if we needed permission from Oona herself.
Im not asking people to be creative if they can only netdeck, not asking for half the deck to be pet cards. Just fun man.
Mtg salvation posters seemed similiar at a glance and I figured I might glean perspective,
TL;DR my meta is depressing but maybe so is magic.
4 Colour Generals;
-Proliferate Monster (Not-Red): Very dull commander, just simic value with 4 keywords stapled on. At least it is not as obnoxious as Leovold.
-Punchyman (Not-Blue): I like this commander a lot. EDH needs every incentive you can get for combat damage and a lot of ways to help remove that 40 life to help bring combat to parity with combo. This commander is great for both of these reasons. Could become a general for my Beard Tribal deck.
-Artifact Girl (Not-Green): It's ok. I mainly am not a fan of the art. Could be a very good toolbox; the -4/-4 ability in particular looks sweet. But I'm not in a hurry to play her.
-Maelstorm Wanderer 2.0 (Not-White): This guy was my pick based on the art. Since I've seen the mechanics I've been torn. I'm generally not a fan of the Maelstorm Wanderer style "dump all the cards on the table" style decks. However it could be fun to give that a go, and god knows Riku with added black will likely be a monstrously powerful deck.
-Fabulous Dudes (Not-Black): I like this general a lot. Like OP I think group hug can go die in a fire. Unlike OP I don't think this is a purely group hug general. It is my opinion that once players start drawing 2 cards per turn, MtG changes in a very positive way. Things actually happen rather than just sitting on good stuff in your hand. Non UB decks can now compete with card draw to a far greater degree. Answers for infinite combo are more likely to be in somebodies grip than they otherwise would be. Will be giving this general serious consideration.
Partners
Disclaimer: I'm a big fan of partners and think that on the whole, these generals are amongst the best designed in the game. They are pretty much exactly the level of power I want to see in EDH generals and the combat focus given to them is a huge + in my books.
-Big RW Doublestrike dude: I think this is a very powerful partner. I am usually against RW getting just combat generals, and it feels very strange to say that the Red White option in a cycle is amongst the best, but this guy is a beast and works great to add a combat element to another partner who provides more draw or whatever. One of the few Partner's I will jump at the chance to include in the 99.
-Small RW Artifact girl: The worst partner by far, she simply does not do anything except unlock RW as a colour pair.
-UW Birdman: Rather dull general that is good for unlocking UW or in a voltron deck. Dull is not always bad, particularly with a partner deck. I think he makes a great sword carrier - will likely become a partner general for my esper equipment deck, paired either with the smaller BW or with the smaller RU for a 4th colour.
-GB Abzan +1+1 guy: A solid choice for the right kind of deck - particularly any kind of GBx fatties deck doing the whole golgari thing. Kind of builds himself though. Limited individually but a very satisfactory partner. Also solid in the 99.
-GB Lifegain Naga: She's ok. Very ok, but just ok. Obviously a great pick for something like Doran. Not a bad design at all and can potentially give a ton of life, but not my favourite choice. Would play in a 99.
-Small UG Merfolk: I think they did a great job of building a fair UG general here. A little underwhelming, but combos well with the other UG partner and is a great way to add UG to your colour pie without much of a commitment to the general.
-Larger UG Kruphix girl: She's ok. Does a good job of feeling UG without the attached easy-mode. I feel the UG partners break the trend of the other partners by being best paired with one another rather than with an additional colour.
-Small RB Goblin: Love it. Immediately see the potential of this guy and the small izzet guy. Burn those life totals down. The randomness is not really an issue if you look at him as a way to simply reduce the life on the table. Solid in the 99 of many decks as well - likely my Mogis group slug LD deck will get one of these.
-Small BW Fate girl: Fantastic general! Great job of adding draw to a partner without making it overbearing. Will likely be a general of my Esper equipment decks, paired either with birdman or with small izzet dude to add a colour.
-Larger BW Theros Guy: I think this is a great general for the right kind of deck. Recursion to hand is such an underrated ability IMO, most people seem to discount it entirely in favour of recursion to field the way they ditch looting for proper draw. It's just a matter of time before I use this as a general of something.
-Small RU Politics guy: Fantastic. Goes in the same categories of the BW fate girl and the not-blue 4 colour dude - great incentive for damaging those stupid-huge life totals. Will definitely see play in at least one of my decks
-Larger RU draw-zombie: I haven't really thought about how often this will trigger. At first glance seems like one of the less exciting options.
-GW weenie knight: I like this guy in a certain kind of deck - little dudes that pump after not being blocked. First thought was to pair with one of the GB for an Abzan soldier deck, but then I remembered that Abzan is all about boosting before they swing. I'd say this is one of the less potent partners, but not a bad option simply for getting colours for your deck.
-UB Artifact guy: I wanted to like this but ultimately don't. Like OP this reminded me of Glissa the traitor more than anything else. Really screams build around, but doesn't give enough payoff for it. Maybe paired up with the BW hit/draw or some such?
-RG token girl: Very mediocre. I guess built right she could make a ton of tokens? In fairness I'm just not excited about this one and so have not given it that much thought.
RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck
RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
Arena Standard
UUUU Tempo, since before it was cool
Various Wx decks running Fountain of Renewal and Day of Glory
Anything I can cram Chaos Wand in to
Not saying that having a competitive deck is bad, just that maybe having multiple options is better. Do you mean interaction in like a play/counterplay way? Or like a talking way? Might want to specify because it's unclear to me at this point. I'm generally in favor of both though.
Personally I enjoy playing a controlling type of deck, so maybe I'm the sort of person you're talking about? But I do think commander is more fun if you're talking. Plus if you don't talk, how can you manipulate people into doing your nefarious bidding?
But yeah, I sympathize with the difficulty of finding a good meta. Although of course not everyone is looking for the same thing. Not sure I follow on the non-black commander. You don't like group hug but you do like everyone drawing 2 cards a turn? That's usually exactly what group hug is...?
Of course if you want to use Ludevic I won't stop you, but I think your argument is pretty flawed. It triggers off just a single damage, so they're more likely to take one damage off a pain land or fetch land (which you can't even do - he might actually be BETTER if he didn't say "other than you", hilariously enough), or attack with a flying token, than to actually go majorly into the red zone - at least edric motivates taking all-out swings. And secondly, it doesn't forbid them from attacking you with everything else, they still get a card unless you throw your horrible commander under the bus. Hardly seems like politics.
Comparing him to Tymna is kind of ridiculous - tymna not only doesn't give your enemies nearly-free draw, she also can trigger three times instead of once, AND she gives you the cards during second main. AND she has lifelink. Honestly the existence of Tymna makes Ludevic look even more incredible terrible than he would be in a vacuum.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
i mean we get all the most epic artifact stuff time sieve goblin welder
color combo is probably one of the best around grixis/america/esper hybrid all of which are amazing for commander with the exception of previous american generals
she can infect kill with her ability if you grant her it
for those who think red is *****
red has powerful stuff just not a lot and 1/4 of your colors is red so the stuff you run is incredibly powerful.
I mean that kinda response is the stuff im talking about. People on this site miss the whole point of edh so much that anyone not playing azami is playing 99 craw with petrogylphs wincon. Like combo is some sort of glorious master race when its really just picking oddball in goldeneye.
That response is indicative of a severe lack of "fun" since your volcan brain still cant process any other response than "git gud, cast omniscience, thin your paints"
ive been looking for a voltron deck capable of keeping up with some of the faster stuff but it usually requires a board presence which gets wiped.
i'm with you on atraxa bant/bug/esper have been some of the strongest color pies in magic her ability is super flexible
i've never been into rug-ish things maelstrom wanderer did nothing for me
though i'm weird i enjoyed playing mishra of all things not even the good version
Honestly theres so many options for a voltron that you gotta give us a bit more than that if you expect a good answer. But if youre mainly worried about losing your stuff try Thrun or Wydwen I guess.
1) Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Proliferate is a versatile keyword, but Atraxa herself can be played as a voltron as well, open up to possibilities. Due to proliferate also works with tokens at times (some permanents create tokens base on it counters), Atraxa can be played as a Stax general also.
2) Breya, Etherium Shaper - I think her sac cost should be one artifact, not two, even if they had to raise the mana cost to compensate. On her own, Breya could only activate her ability once, which is her flaw. However, artifacts themselves open up to a spectrum of deck styles, Breya can easily sit there to digest left over artifacts for benefits. If you have a way to generate artifact tokens, all the better.
3) Vial Smasher the Fierce - I will leave the link for my thread here. I find Smasher a strong partner because her trigger works on any first spell, which means she could go from spellslinger to artifact ramp to June beatdown, and all the more powerful with damage doublers like Furnace of Rath. http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/760870-vial-smasher-combos
4) Silas Renn, Seeker Adept, Same with Vial Smasher, I'm impressed by Silas's ability to partner with other partners, and even by himself there are multiple ways to play him. Destroying his equipment would not completely stop him, and left unchecked he brings back dangerous combo pieces. And like Smasher, you can play Silas solo and still benefit from his abilities.
5) Reyhan, Last of the Abzan - Lore-gasm aside, Reyhan caught my eyes with her ability to benefit the field for free; you just need creatures you control to die, include herself. Reyhan works with many +1/+1 counter based strategies that she could either lead the team or be one of the 99, either way she leaves a mark. Incanur from this forum mentioned a wonderful Sultai combo with Reyhan and Silas, utilizing artifact modular creatures/effect.
EDIT: I just noticed that all these generals have Black in its color identity, guess that says a lot about me.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
4) Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder - I do enjoy cascade to some degree and while some people will enjoy having B added to the mix, I see it as a clunkier (read: requires protection) version of Maelstrom Wanderer. I personally don't enjoy cascade that I would build a deck around it (My Wanderer is part of my Horde deck along with Maelstrom Nexus as a mini-theme) and adding a color doesn't really change my mind, let alone a clunkier one (I'll rather run a streamlined Wanderer if I had to do so, honestly). Its a repeated theme, so it doesn't score so high with me.
3) Breya, Etherium Shaper - Like Yidris, Breya is a very-much repeated theme and functionally is pretty much a giant Jitte (although being on a Commander instead of an equipment is more difference). However, unlike with Yidris, I've thought of "What if the Esper-Artifacts theme combined with the likes of Daretti?". So while predictable (and somewhat boring), it's at least fills a missing gap of desires.
2) Saskia the Unyielding - Saskia has a rather unique effect (I nearly misread it as Stuffy Doll the first time round), but she has her uses - she utilizes the protection of choosing a player to discourage all other players to not remove her (somewhat like Iona, but way less oppressive). Sure, if the chosen player can protect himself/herself well enough, then the most exposed player would also have incentive to remove Saskia (so as not to get attacked), but Saskia's ability plays around with politics quite well, especially for an aggro-focused Commander.
1) Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Proliferate. On a Commander. I always wanted to see Inexorable Tide in the Command Zone and this is the nearest we'll going to get it. It definitely helps out the missing "Superfriends" archetype (until an even more obvious one comes out in 4c/5c), but the simple fact that Proliferate is such a versatile mechanic that I wanted to just see it in the Command Zone. Her design may otherwise be uninspiring (she's basically goodstuff-abilities rolled into one), but like I said, I only really care for the Proliferate.
Now onto the 2c Partners... note that I'm judging each card individually without really taking into account the partnerships involved, because there's too many combinations to go through.
14) Ishai, Ojutai Dragonspeaker - Legendary Taurean Mauler with flying (that's smaller and costs 4). For an Ojutai card, I would have expected some bonuses for casting noncreature spells as well (not necessarily prowess or limited to only you casting spells).
13) Akiri, Line-Slinger - Almost as boring as Ishai, but having a variable count on your own end as well as artifacts themselves could potentially form some better synergies than Ishai at the very least. I would still vastly prefer Jor Kadeen.
12) Bruse Tarl, Boorish Herder - Like the above 2 cards, it's a bland design, but at least it has power and support which makes it a viable "generic support choice" at the very least.
11) Tana, the Bloodsower - Another rather boring design, but like Bruse, it has its support synergies and unlike Bruse it can exponentially grow on its own, so it's a tad better.
10) Vial Smasher the Fierce - Well, it's creative, but it's also random and demands expensive spells be cast first, so it's not very dependable and I don't like restrictions on top of randomness.
9) Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix - I know this is powerful, but it's also uninspiringly powerful. It's good at what it does (and what its colors do) and has the potential to be broken, but it's precisely that which gives me a slightly sour taste of the card as opposed to fun, innovative ones.
8) Kraum, Ludevic's Opus - It opens a new pathway for UR aggro (Mindwrack Liege, anyone?) and so while it's simple and occasionally effective, I like this for the new space it simply opens up.
7) Thrasios, Triton Hero - Like Kydele, it's rather uninspiring, but at least it's just moderate value (at a cost) with a lesser chance of breaking into two.
6) Tymna the Weaver - An interesting take on pain-card draw for WB that's dependent on multiplayer combat, especially with Myriad abilities (mainly just Blade of Selves). It may be a mish-mash of known abilities that not entirely fresh, but it's innovative in direction at least.
5) Ikra Shidiqi, the Usurper - Friends with Doran and Assault Formation, but it does stack with lifelink and like Tymna, gives separate fragments of the game a twist by combining them together.
4) Ravos, Soultender - An anthem and a recursion put together in 1 for 5-mana in the Command Zone is simply value. It might be less innovative than Tymna and Ikra, but I'm letting Ravos ahead because these two abilities together seem to be the kind of abilities I (and some people) like to see in the Command Zone.
3) Silas Renn, Seeker Adept - Like Ravos, he's not particularly inspired but he's effective. While he has a slight chance of breaking (being artifact-related at all), I felt that requiring combat damage to a player (and having deathtouch to help in that) is a fair hoop to jump through. While I personally prefer Ravos more functionally, I gave Silas Renn a rank higher due to flavor (he was Tezzeret's nemesis in the earlier part of Tezzeret's life).
2) Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa - Probably the card with the best flavor/callback character, his ability is also good, although it does require some restrictive building around.
1) Reyhan, Last of the Abzan - Modular on all creatures is just... innovative and versatile, requires some building around but is more flexible than Sidar Kondo since +1/+1 counters are more common.
I don't get the bolded part, if opponents hurt me during my turn, how does it stop me from drawing an extra card, as long as I damage one of them?
I agree that given the way Ludevic was portrayed in Innistrad stories, I expected better, flavor wise it is true that he takes inspiration at the cost of others, and he's also a teacher.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Oops that was a mistake on my part (while rushing through reviewing 20 of them and honestly some of them are close enough that their ranks are close enough to be swapped around). I've edited the original post so that the review doesn't look outright silly, but thanks for pointing that out.
EDIT: Oh wait, it encourages them to damage you if they had to damage someone, because if they damaged anyone else you'll get to draw a card without effort on your part. That was what I was trying to convey. I'm still mixed up after running through all those Commanders. Time to edit the original post again.
"At the beginning of each player's end step, that player may draw a card if a player other than you lost life this turn."
Only one player gets to draw the extra card at the beginning of his or her end step, and only if players other than you loses life. Therefore, Ludevic in fact encourages your opponent to attack each other for that extra card, because attacking you does not yield benefit from Ludevic.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
1) Hatred
2) The ability to run Mana Crypt, Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Mox Diamond, Chrome Mox, Mox Opal and Gemstone Caverns for a very high chance of a turn 2 & 3 Commander play in any order you wish. A opening 10 card hand and Tymna the Weaver means the card disadvantage is recuperated lightning quick.
3) Instant speed Entomb for cards like Glory and Filth. Both are so sick with both Commanders.
4) Cards like Phyrexian Reclamation to bypass Commander tax. The life cost is irrelevant.
5) Hall of the Bandit Lord life payment is also irrelevant. Not only are you bypassing Commander tax with recursion, but red has access to Slayers' Stronghold, Hanweir Battlements & Flamekin Village. At this point, you don't care about sorcery speed removal anymore because you just put Bruse back on the battlefield via recursion with haste the next turn...
6) Urborg + Coffers as just another way to make Commander Tax irrelevant.
7) Lashwrithe + Nightmare Lash.
8) As a Voltron list, you have two Commanders. Tymna can carry the above Lashwrithe and focus on one opponent, while Bruse another. Commander damage doesn't stack, but Bruse transfers doublestrike to Tymna too.
Bruse is so strong. I think the above is fantastic, but he is also amazing with Reyhan, Last of the Abzan (think scavenge) and Silas Renn, Seeker Adept (almost for colours alone, but Silas himself will do work too, deathtouch is a good keyword with certain equipment to clear defenders) as well.
RW Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas
Maelstrom man has the potential to replace or sit next to Jeleva in T1 storm lists.
Breya may prove to be a T1 or T1.5 combo list.
Simic pairing may prove to do the same.
Atraxa is probably T2 as much as I want her to be more.
Everything else has a good chance of falling much lower.
In regards to this, I don't think that focusing two players at once is usually a good move. You have to spread your resources too thin, leave yourself open to overextension, and make all of the players at the table know you're coming for them. What you're suggesting also requires a fair level of setup. Moreover, entombing a mediocre evasion type creature is much worse than entombing and then reanimating the Iona's and Elesh Norns of the world.
I think a better pairing here would be anything else that provides some level of CA without the stipulation of attacking. The other Orzhov legend allows you to still run the great black draw spells, and maybe get some creatures back. Also a mild anthem is relevant when you're double striking. Both Izzet legends allow you to draw some cards, run countermagic, and plenty of draw spells. Hell, even the Rakdos guy is at least fun and flavorful. I think all four of those options are better than stipulating that you hit multiple players at a time and spread yourself too thin.
No no, you misunderstand.
Tymna the Weaver, at minimum, is a Phyrexian Arena in the Command Zone for a Voltron list. Voltron lists attack and deal combat damage. That's how they win...
Running Filth (and Urborg) with Tymna the Weaver, just means cards like Lingering Souls are drawing you more cards... Saying I should be entombing Iona, Shield of Emeria instead of Filth is like saying I shouldn't play Voltron and at all, because Combo is more efficient. I'm not playing a list that wants to win via Iona, I'm playing a Voltron list that wants to win by Commander damage...
The whole having two Commanders attack thing is a option, not some sort of mandate I set down. Bruse will always be the more efficient Voltron attacker and should be focused on almost exclusively, but that doesn't mean if for whatever reason you smashed someone for 7 with a Lashwrithe equipped Tymna, that you cannot then just blink, attack or recast Bruse and grant her doublestrike instead to finish the job next turn herself.
If I add Ancient Tomb to all the fast mana, you are running 8 cards that can consistently allow a turn 2 Bruse or Tymna, followed by a turn 3 Bruse or Tymna. That is lighting quick Voltron speeds.
I've played Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas for a long time. Getting her down consistently turn 3 and attacking turn 4 is awesome for a Voltron list. Potentially a whole turn earlier for Bruse? Amazing.
RW Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas
I don't misunderstand. If you're playing against two opponents, you're only giving ox mans double strike to one commander. If you begin killing one player more slowly, because you started focusing your efforts on another player, you're giving two players time to respond to your efforts, and now it's 2 on 1. Since you're incapable of taking out all opponents at once, you must choose the biggest threat, eliminate that player, and then choose the next biggest threat. Using bad cards for a bad strategy isn't going to make it better. Reanimating an Iona and locking the most threatening player out of the game, while eliminating them, or the next player is a more reliable way to get the damage through than crappy evasion cards, and a Phrexian Arena that relies on dealing combat damage to a player.
1.) His avatar image is the best living musician in the world
2.) His opinions on commander are on point.
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Correct, so during Ludevic's controller's turn, Ludevic's controller gets to draw a card if another player was damaged - which means all his opponents have a common interest to have damage all redirected to Ludevic's controller instead so that Ludevic's controller doesn't draw a card. So if they were forced to have to deal damage to someone, they would be highly encouraged to deal damage to Ludevic's controller during his or her turn. They can't deal damage to themselves, because that would trigger Ludevic on Ludevic's controller's turn. I should have specified more clearly that I was referring to Ludevic's controller when it came to his or her turn (which was why I said "deal damage to you during your turn, because you are Ludevic's controller and dealing to anyone else means you draw a card).
What I'm trying to put is that the condition to draw a card if simply based on any player losing life (including themselves) except for Ludevic's controller, so the only way to prevent the card draw (which in the interest of all opponents not having their turn) if redirection is involved is to redirect it all to Ludevic's controller. I'm not talking about the person wanting to draw, I'm referring to his or her opponents. Wanting to draw is easy, wanting someone else to NOT draw is harder and the easiest solution means Ludevic's controller takes damage instead.
My paints are thin enough to cover the walls, thank you very much.
You seem to think I, and other players like me act like we or our deck choice of Combo is some "Glorious Master Race" when the reality is that we want to have fun with EDH and we have fun by playing combo decks. You act like we pick Oddjob when really we're the ones getting kicked out of groups because we aren't playing Phantom Pistols on Waterworks on Halo.
If fun is your measure of worth of a player or a game, you need to sit down and analyze the statement of "Fun is Subjective". Multiple times, if needed.
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