In the end I went for very 'stuff happens' build: defender pile, spamming casdade/scry/draw to keep my hand filled with options constantly, and each and every 'whenever you X' thing that pings my opponents. Wear people down by sheer repeated pingery (with some bigger ending options like Treacherous Terrain).
X Hope of Ghirapur Swordpile W Ghosty Blinky Anafenza U Nezahal- Big, Blue and HERE! B Gonti Can Afford It R Etali, Primal 'Whatjusthappened?' G Polukranos Wants More Mana WU The Exalted Vizier Temmet WB Home, Athreos WR Basandra, Recursive Aggression WG Karametra, Momma of Lands UB Wrexial Eats Your Brains UR Arjun, the Mad Flame UG The Fable of Prime Speaker BR Hellbent, Malfegor Style BG Jarad, Death is Served RG Running Thromok WUB Varina and ALL the Zombies WUBYennett, the Odd Pain-Train WUR Zedruu the Furyhearted WUG Arcades' Strategy, Shmategy, Sausage and Spam WBR A Case of Mathas' Persistent F*ckery WBRLicia's League of Legendary Lifegain Layabouts WBG The Karador Advantage PackageWRG Gahiji Rattlesnake Collection UBR Jeleva... does... things UBG Damia's Just Deserts URG Yasova's Has More Power Than Sense BRG Wasitora, Bad Kitty WUBRBreya, Eggs, Breya'd Eggs WUBG Tymna and Kydele, Extended Borrowing WURG Kynaios and Tiro, Landfall Impersonations WBRG Saskia Pet Card EnchantressUBRG Yidris of the Chi-Ting Corporation WUBRG Tazri's Amazing Allies
I was originally thinking a Gahiji, Honored One style deck. Pillowfort and reward hitting eachother and tokens. But I want to utilize the high land count to win. Any ideas?
I was originally thinking a Gahiji, Honored One style deck. Pillowfort and reward hitting eachother and tokens. But I want to utilize the high land count to win. Any ideas?
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Tunnel Ignus doesn't work here, unless I'm mistaken. Your opponents get the land from K&T on your turn, so it's still just one land on their turn and one on yours, not two on theirs. Maybe it's worth a slot if they have a lot of ramp spells or like to use Crop Rotation or Harrow on your turn.
What about running as a straightforward Turbo Fog deck? Lots of group card draw like Howling Mine, pillowfort enchantments, board wipes and all the fog effects, with the goal of milling the table as fast as possible?
I hate everything about this card. The thing that I resent the most about it is that at least three players in my previously grouphug-free meta are building this deck as soon as it drops, so I'll be forced to deal with grouphug and all of the salt that comes with it for the foreseeable future. That being said, crafting a grouphug list that wins instead of punting is a challenge that seems interesting to tackle, so here I go.
The first thing to understand about this card is that it generally gives your opponents more than it gives you, not less. In a standard four player pod you get two cards out of each end step trigger, your opponents get three between them all (kind of like a reverse Fleshbag Marauder, which takes up to three). The two cards that would best remedy this imbalance, Leovold and Notion Thief, are black and therefore out (Spirit of the Labyrinth does NOT help you), so you need to make your draws count for more than your opponents'. There are three obvious ways to do that: 1) sweepers that eliminate many of your opponents' cards, 2) combo pieces, 3) hate pieces that render drawn cards useless. Since we're playing to win not to not lose threats (ie combo pieces) should be the main focus of the deck, with sweepers and hate pieces keeping opponents from winning with all the free cards you're feeding them.
You need four specifically colored mana to cast Kiyanos and Tiro, so your ramp package should consist of multi color mana dorks like Birds of Paradise and land fetching spells like Cultivate. Burgeoning and Exploration are also good because of the sheer number of cards getting stuffed into your hand. The overwhelming majority of decks use ETB triggers in their value engines, so let's turn that off with Torpor Orb, Hushwing Gryff, and maybe even Humility. A lot of decks in the format abuse the graveyard, so let's include Final Judgment and Descend Upon the Sinful in our sweeper package; Rest in Peace is both graveyard hate and combo piece. Aven Mindcensor can effectively counter a tutor, ramp spell, or even fetch land and make any similar effects your opponents are holding useless. Since the signets are questionable anyway due to K&T's strict mana cost let's just turn off all mana rocks with Null Rod and Stony Silence. Some of our wincons will inevitably be in tension with some of our hate pieces, but that's fine since our opponents will eventually bust hate pieces for us. Helm of Obedience wins with RiP, which we already want for shutting down the graveyard players. Mana doublers are good on their own and go infinite with Palinchron, so let's add that package. Deadeye Navigator also combos with Palinchron and any ETB dorks we do decide to run. Kikki/Twin + Great Oak Guardian/Zealous Conscripts is a flexible combo package made of cards that do work on their own. Infinite attack steps using Bear Umbra/Sword of Feast and Famine/Nature's Will + Aggravated Assault/Hellkite Charger also works. I don't like Craterhoof in K&T because I think you need to be sweeping creatures and artifacts pretty aggressively to keep the green and blue players down.
That's my take. Run RiP + Helm combo, plus at least two of the other packages and a suite of sweepers and hate you think is appropriate for your meta. You don't have black's tutor for anything effects, but with green and white in the deck you still have a respectable number at your disposal. I didn't really get into CA, but make sure there's some repeatable, reliable CA generation beyond just K&T.
The first thing to understand about this card is that it generally gives your opponents more than it gives you, not less. In a standard four player pod you get two cards out of each end step trigger, your opponents get three between them all (kind of like a reverse Fleshbag Marauder, which takes up to three).
Unless your opponents intend to gang up against you, it's not the same as 3 cards vs 2 cards, more like 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 2 until otherwise changed politically. They may very well use the extra card against each other, as long as you make it less appealing to attack you. (Worf: Enemy of my enemy is the enemy I'll kill last.)
Although I can understand the frustration of facing against 3 group hug decks at once...
The first thing to understand about this card is that it generally gives your opponents more than it gives you, not less. In a standard four player pod you get two cards out of each end step trigger, your opponents get three between them all
Your math works out in archenemy and nowhere else.
The same things were also said about Selvala, Explorer Returned (and still said by those who have not played with or against this general), but Selvala ends up being extremely lopsided when built and played correctly. Same goes for Nekusar, the Mindrazer.
If built correctly, you will get far more mileage from the Kings than your opponents will.
Quick FYI, I saw someone mention Horn of Greed. It does NOT work with this commander. Horn of Greed specifies lands being PLAYED, which is not the same as being put onto the battlefield with K&T. Something to keep in mind
4 Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis
Creatures:
2 Bazaar Trader
2 Faith Healer
2 Magus of the Unseen
2 Kami of the Crescent Moon
3 Selvala, Explorer Returned
3 Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer
3 Daring Thief
3 Armory Automaton
4 Cytoplast Manipulator
4 Sower of Temptation
4 Faerie Artisans
4 Brion Stoutarm
4 Zedruu the Greathearted
4 Willow Satyr
5 Beguiler of Wills
5 Dominus of Fealty
5 Empress Galina
5 Rubinia Soulsinger
5 Kruphix, God of Horizons
6 Deadeye Navigator
6 Bruna, Light of Alabaster
7 Molten Primordial
7 Memnarch
Planeswalkers:
3 Dack Fayden
4 Sarkhan Vol
5 Venser, the Sojourner
4 Control Magic
4 Chamber of Manipulation
6 Confiscate
7 Take Possession
Enchantments:
1 Burgeoning
2 Prismatic Omen
3 Dictate of Karametra
3 Rites of Flourishing
3 Propaganda
3 Ghostly Prison
3 Heartbeat of Spring
4 Dissipation Field
4 Puca's Mischief
4 Greater Good
Artifacts:
0 Claws of Gix
1 Sol Ring
2 Sundial of the Infinite
2 Liquimetal Coating
2 Howling Mine
3 Ashnod's Altar
3 Chromatic Lantern
4 Ghirapur Orrery
4 Font of Mythos
4 Helm of Possession
5 Conjurer's Closet
Instants:
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Rakdos Charm
3 Capsize
3 Grip of Phyresis
3 Second Sunrise
4 Reins of Power
5 Word of Seizing
3 Fade Away
5 Bribery
5 Aetherspouts
6 Cultural Exchange
6 Austere Command
7 Blatant Thievery
8 Insurrection
Lands:
1 Command Tower
1 Crystal Quarry
1 City of Brass
1 Grand Coliseum
1 Mana Confluence
1 Meteor Crater
1 Mirrodin's Core
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Temple of the False God
1 High Market
9 Island
5 Mountain
5 Plains
5 Forest
Some choice repeated pingery:
There are quite a few ways you could go with this. If you want tokens and benefits from hitting other players, using Gahiji, Honored One in Kyanio and Tiro will work very well on theme as well as using Edric, Spymaster of Trest. Some good token generators are Avenger of Zendikar, who focuses on lands, Rampaging Baloths, Omnath, Locus of Rage, Emeria Angel to name a few that can trigger off of their free land per turn. Garruk, Primal Hunter's ultimate puts 6/6 for each land you control. Liege of the Tangle, can make your lands into an army. Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer gets bigger the more lands you have. Nissa, Voice of Zendikar gets a lot of value. There are a lot of ways to focus on the land aspect of Kyanios and Tiro.
WBR Alesha's Death Brigade WBR
WWW Brigid the Battlefield Saboteur WWW
UB Wydwen, the Biting Gale UB
#ThrowbackThursday in green, for those who care.
Sword of War and Peace also looks like a hit, since it's Sudden Impact+Gerrard's Wissdom/2 each time it hits.
Tunnel Ignus could also be nice.
On phasing:
Step 1: Make your opponents less likely to be aggressive toward you
Step 1a: Pillowfort (Blazing Archon, Collective Restraint, Propaganda, Windborn Muse, Ghostly Prison, Sphere of Safety, Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs, Angus Mackenzie)
Step 1b: Distract (Edric, Spymaster of Trest, Gahiji, Honored One)
Step 1c: Group Hug (Heartwood Storyteller, Selvala, Explorer Returned, Ghirapur Orrery, Rites of Flourishing, Horn of Greed, Howling Mine, Kami of the Crescent Moon)
Step 2: Combo
Combo 1: Mind Over Matter + Temple Bell/Selvala, Explorer Returned + Kozilek, Butcher of Truth - Keep making the opponents all draw cards until they draw out. Discard Kozilek if you start running low on cards in your library.
Combo 2: Make your opponents draw A LOT and discard to hand size! + Mind Over Matter + Keening Stone
Combo 3: Draw a lot (or infinitely with combo 1) + Psychosis Crawler
Disrupt opponents' combos with counter magic and removal as necessary.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
The first thing to understand about this card is that it generally gives your opponents more than it gives you, not less. In a standard four player pod you get two cards out of each end step trigger, your opponents get three between them all (kind of like a reverse Fleshbag Marauder, which takes up to three). The two cards that would best remedy this imbalance, Leovold and Notion Thief, are black and therefore out (Spirit of the Labyrinth does NOT help you), so you need to make your draws count for more than your opponents'. There are three obvious ways to do that: 1) sweepers that eliminate many of your opponents' cards, 2) combo pieces, 3) hate pieces that render drawn cards useless. Since we're playing to win not to not lose threats (ie combo pieces) should be the main focus of the deck, with sweepers and hate pieces keeping opponents from winning with all the free cards you're feeding them.
You need four specifically colored mana to cast Kiyanos and Tiro, so your ramp package should consist of multi color mana dorks like Birds of Paradise and land fetching spells like Cultivate. Burgeoning and Exploration are also good because of the sheer number of cards getting stuffed into your hand. The overwhelming majority of decks use ETB triggers in their value engines, so let's turn that off with Torpor Orb, Hushwing Gryff, and maybe even Humility. A lot of decks in the format abuse the graveyard, so let's include Final Judgment and Descend Upon the Sinful in our sweeper package; Rest in Peace is both graveyard hate and combo piece. Aven Mindcensor can effectively counter a tutor, ramp spell, or even fetch land and make any similar effects your opponents are holding useless. Since the signets are questionable anyway due to K&T's strict mana cost let's just turn off all mana rocks with Null Rod and Stony Silence. Some of our wincons will inevitably be in tension with some of our hate pieces, but that's fine since our opponents will eventually bust hate pieces for us. Helm of Obedience wins with RiP, which we already want for shutting down the graveyard players. Mana doublers are good on their own and go infinite with Palinchron, so let's add that package. Deadeye Navigator also combos with Palinchron and any ETB dorks we do decide to run. Kikki/Twin + Great Oak Guardian/Zealous Conscripts is a flexible combo package made of cards that do work on their own. Infinite attack steps using Bear Umbra/Sword of Feast and Famine/Nature's Will + Aggravated Assault/Hellkite Charger also works. I don't like Craterhoof in K&T because I think you need to be sweeping creatures and artifacts pretty aggressively to keep the green and blue players down.
That's my take. Run RiP + Helm combo, plus at least two of the other packages and a suite of sweepers and hate you think is appropriate for your meta. You don't have black's tutor for anything effects, but with green and white in the deck you still have a respectable number at your disposal. I didn't really get into CA, but make sure there's some repeatable, reliable CA generation beyond just K&T.
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders
Unless your opponents intend to gang up against you, it's not the same as 3 cards vs 2 cards, more like 1 vs 1 vs 1 vs 2 until otherwise changed politically. They may very well use the extra card against each other, as long as you make it less appealing to attack you. (Worf: Enemy of my enemy is the enemy I'll kill last.)
Although I can understand the frustration of facing against 3 group hug decks at once...
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Your math works out in archenemy and nowhere else.
The same things were also said about Selvala, Explorer Returned (and still said by those who have not played with or against this general), but Selvala ends up being extremely lopsided when built and played correctly. Same goes for Nekusar, the Mindrazer.
If built correctly, you will get far more mileage from the Kings than your opponents will.
T1 cast Enduring Ideal, grabbing Paradox Haze.
T2 search up Energy Field and Wheel of Sun and Moon to protect yourself.
T3 search up Form of the Dragon and Second Chance. EOT your life total becomes 5.
Next turn, Chance triggers and wheel puts it back into your library to search out again. Ping 5 with Form, rinse and repeat until dead.