The real trick is making sure he actually gets to deal combat damage. You're gonna wan to run lots of way to give haste and protection but at the same time not too much cause you don't want your cascade triggers to be underwhelming.
The real trick is making sure he actually gets to deal combat damage. You're gonna wan to run lots of way to give haste and protection but at the same time not too much cause you don't want your cascade triggers to be underwhelming.
I agree, the other trick is to strategically play cards with undesirable cascades prior to combat. That being said, in my experience there are no real "bad" cascades as you have the option not to play them. Otherwise they are all gravy. I think precombat you should be focusing on getting Yidris through the red zone unmolested and setting up your library to gain max value from your postcombat cascade triggers.
Fuse cards- because you have to hit a card with lower cmc and then cast it for free this allows you to cast both halves of the fuse card for free even if one is a 2 drop and the other is a 5 drop.
You can't cast "both" sides, you have to pick one.
Fuse only works if you cast it from your hand. But you can hit the smaller side, and cast the bigger one.
Depending on the build you're running, Bound // Determined would be amazing. Either you get all the spells you cast without worrying about them being countered, or you can sacrifice a creature to return a bunch of cards you want to recast.
One card Yidris will like is Avatar of Slaughter. Not only does he give him double-strike and a big cascade trigger, he stops non-vigilant creatures from blocking. A few other ways to get a lot out of his trigger:
Breath of Fury, Fury of the Horde, Godo, Relentless Assault, Savage Beating++, Scourge of the Throne, Seize the Day, World at War: Extra Combat Phases
Blood Mist, Fireshrieker, Grappling Hook, Berserker's Onslaught, Rage Reflection: Things that grant double strike permanently
Temur Battle Rage, Wrecking Ogre, Uncaged Fury, Sangrite Surge, Psychotic Fury, Armed // Dangerous, Assault Strobe: Instants that grant double strike
May not Ben the best idea with him but, I might be crazy enough to go Animar, soul of elements esc deck with Yidris. I mean it cheats creatures out like Animar but just won't have as many creatures as Animar has.
I find similar strength (and weakness) between Yidris and my Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest. Both are devastating when they hit an opponent, the problem being how to make them hit. I use cards like Distortion Strike and Artful Dodge to connect Shu Yun since they are cheap and efficient, allow spare mana to grant double strike. In Yidris's case, we need mana after combat to cast high cc spells (such as World at War), therefore cheaper the enabler, the better.
Since there wasn't actually a direct answer to this question:
No.
Quote from MTG Comprehensive Rules »
702.34a:
“Madness [cost]” means “If a player would discard this card, that player discards it, but exiles it instead of putting it into his or her graveyard” and “When this card is exiled this way, its owner may cast it by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost. If that player doesn’t, he or she puts this card into his or her graveyard.”
Also, if you cascade into a split card that has a half with smaller CMC then the card with cascade, you get to cast either half.
In short, a card cast with its madness cost is cast from exile, not from the hand.
On an unrelated note, I took the liberty of looking up some (arguably) playable split cards:
Not too many, but these were the ones I felt would be most useful and could get really cheaty cascades.
I tried to find ones with a useful cheap mode, and with an expensive secondary mode that could still be useful sometimes. I wouldn't want to run more than 1 or two of these cards anyway, since they really aren't all that could without getting a cascade off them.
Flesh // Blood is the one I like the most, as targeted grave removal that can buff Yidris for more commander damage (even if it is 5 mana...) and a 2 mana deal damage spell isn't terrible for the possible advantages.
Also, if you can cascade into a split card, you are able to cast either half. (too bad "Fuse" says "from hand"...what a shame)
Anyone have any good suggestions for counterspells? I've been looking for modal counterspells, like Cryptic Command and Izzet Charm.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
My Maelstrom Wanderer deck runs Cryptic, Mystic, and Venser only. Theoretically you can run Remand as well and gain some additional value, but I found that situation to be rather niche, so I ultimately cut it from MW.
Some double strike will be good to double up on cascade triggers. However you'll also have to mix in some haste and/or protection. 5 power with trample can often punch through, but 4 toughness you might end up dying often. You don't necessarily need to smash someone for 21 damage in one turn, but you want to make sure that Yidris doesn't die during combat. Cards that grant extra combat steps are nice too as they also can grant extra cascade triggers.
Next, you'll want to have some free spells, or spells that can be cost for reduced price. For example, Snuff Out can be cast for 0 mana and can start a 4-CMC cascade. Mulldrifter can be cast for 3 mana but can start a 5-CMC cascade. Tasigur can be cast for as little as 1 mana but can start a 6-CMC cascade. You'll also want to avoid cards that can be dead cascades, or play only the critical ones (for example don't play 30 counterspells, but cryptic command is a strong counterspell that is also a fine cascade).
One other secret tech could be Blasphemous Act. You can cast it for as little as 1-mana but it will start a 9-CMC cascade if you do it post combat (assuming you need to sweep the board for whatever reason). Since it's also 9-CMC you often won't hit it on a cascade, minimizing the chances that it'll be a dead cascade. If you need sweepers, I also like Perilous Vault as an option, as you can hit it in a cascade and leave it on the field and activate it when needed, as opposed to a traditional sweeper like Damnation which could be a dead/wasted cascade.
Also, split cards interact quite nicely with cascade, since your cascade can hit the lower CMC side, but hitting a split card allows you to cast either half for free, as others in this topic have explained. Offhand I don't know which ones will be great, but they're definitely worth looking into.
Now, colorless mana ramp is not that strong in Yidris (or in most of the 4-color generals outside of the artifact chick). You probably want to get Yidris online ASAP and you need colored mana to do that. Sol ring is still a staple just because it's so good (it doesn't literally help you cast Yidris unless it's for commander tax, but it helps power out the other cards in your deck extremely fast which in turn can help power out Yidris anyway), and mana crypt is a staple if money isn't a concern, but something like Thran Dynamo is not that good in most 4-color decks. etc. With access to green you should have no problems ramping.
Library manipulation can certainly help increase the cascade hits, but don't dig deep. We don't need to play something like Index. Play good ones like Top, scroll rack, brainstorm, etc. Since many of the good ones also cost 1-2 mana, you also may want Ancestral Vision and Lotus Bloom (moreso Vision) as they are quite solid if you cascade into them, and casting 1-mana spells after Yidris lands a hit will auto guarantee that you hit one of them.
essentially, the deck certainly plays similarly to Maelstrom Wanderer, which surprises nobody. The difference is that Yidris wants to cast lots of spells for low CMC to maximize the number of cascade triggers, whereas Maelstrom wanderer wants to play lots of the broken mana rocks and then cascade into huge bombs. For example, Wanderer cascading into Ancestral Vision is merely solid, while Yidris casting a brainstorm to cascade into Ancestral Vision is amazing.
So I was thinking why get really big stuff, when cascade slivers sounds really scary. Any thoughts on a sliver based deck? P.S I've never made a sliver deck so I thought it might be cool.
So I was thinking why get really big stuff, when cascade slivers sounds really scary. Any thoughts on a sliver based deck? P.S I've never made a sliver deck so I thought it might be cool.
I think you woyld be getter off with a Sliver General. Yidris just screams goodstuff.
I know, I thought about the concept of almost a storm sliver deck heavily creature based. With Genesis wave and Villainous wealth for to help with end game beat down. Of course i would have haste effects. It was just an idea to see if storming the board with slivers would work for this deck. Could also include living death to return such slivers.
Or maybe Ally's
I was also thinking that if you did have a sliver deck with yidris, cards like omniscience would be perfect to help close out the game by flooding the board and also running coat of arms to overwhelm an opponent or two yidris fun stuff sounds cool but I feel like you would lose the advantage of the speed of what you could have
Imo its silly to make a tribal deck with a general that has no "direct" synergy with said tribe. If you want to build around a specific mechanic I would put a bunch of Instant/Sorceries in the deck and build a storm deck with stuff like Young Pyromancer and Decent of Perfection?
Edit: I just realized Melek, Izzet Paragon has a sweet synergy in here wait nvm. Cascade is cast from exile.
I have a sliver deck, and the problems with doing that here is first, that all your best slivers are at the same mana costs so cascading into them isn't efficient, and second, the 5color legends are your strongest endgame and losing them are a big blow.
Oh, and losing white hurts more than you'd expect, and not just cause I use academy rector to cheat omniscience
Yidris doesn't really lend himself to a tribal theme, so that kind of thing is best left to its own dedicated deck
So if you theoretically have 11 mana, staff of domination, yidris equipped with bear umbra, with Hell-kite charger you win? lol Most convoluted way of getting infinite attacks and cascade? lol also with a little help from whipsersilk cloak
Though i would need to untap yidris some how too.... Think of infinite combos with me D:
So if you theoretically have 11 mana, staff of domination, yidris equipped with bear umbra, with Hell-kite charger you win?
If i use that and i have a +1+1 counter on hellkite charger and yidris equipped with bear umbra. i could use Vigean Graftmage to make a bunch of cascade. Perfect for Multiplayer games. i wouldnt even need Staff of dom to go infinite
To stack your top deck you can also use stuff like reclaim effects. Not only they can hit those sweet 0cmc spells with cascade but after you have wheeled/or just cast cards into your gy you can put them on top of library via reclaim/noxious revival. Because most of these effects are instants you can cast in respose to the yidris trigger so you are guaranteed to set up you next cascade spell.
To stack your top deck you can also use stuff like reclaim effects. Not only they can hit those sweet 0cmc spells with cascade but after you have wheeled/or just cast cards into your gy you can put them on top of library via reclaim/noxious revival. Because most of these effects are instants you can cast in respose to the yidris trigger so you are guaranteed to set up you next cascade spell.
I've been trying to put my decklist together, and I'm not sure how I feel about these just yet.
It seems good in theory, but I'm also considering if such cards get cascaded into...It seems rather bad overall when considering that. I wouldn't mind cascading into Top, Scroll Rack, or even Brainstorm to stack the deck, but I would feel pretty bad if you end up cascading into Reclaim or Noxious Revivial, especially when you can play cards like Regrowth instead and get more card advantage out of it.
I'd almost rather add redundancy for the really good spells rather than just put them back on top. With wheels you have Time Spiral, Wheel of Fortune, Windfall, and quite a few others if you need more than 2 or three. If you can afford them there's 3 Time Warp variants (you could even play Savor the Moment!) Temporal Manipulation is actually not terribly expensive compared to some other staples thrown around in this format.
In short, my point is you'd probably be better off adding redundancy to the kind of spells you want to be cascading into instead of things like Reclaim, there are more than enough options in GRUB. But by all means, test it out and see how it goes! This is just a hunch, after all.
I would recommend just using Sultai Ascendancy just as a scry 2, while running something to put your graveyard back to your library to wheel more and have more cascade.
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BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
I agree, the other trick is to strategically play cards with undesirable cascades prior to combat. That being said, in my experience there are no real "bad" cascades as you have the option not to play them. Otherwise they are all gravy. I think precombat you should be focusing on getting Yidris through the red zone unmolested and setting up your library to gain max value from your postcombat cascade triggers.
You can't cast "both" sides, you have to pick one.
Fuse only works if you cast it from your hand. But you can hit the smaller side, and cast the bigger one.
Depending on the build you're running, Bound // Determined would be amazing. Either you get all the spells you cast without worrying about them being countered, or you can sacrifice a creature to return a bunch of cards you want to recast.
Crime // Punishment would be phenomenal, but alas, that white mana.....
Breath of Fury, Fury of the Horde, Godo, Relentless Assault, Savage Beating++, Scourge of the Throne, Seize the Day, World at War: Extra Combat Phases
Blood Mist, Fireshrieker, Grappling Hook, Berserker's Onslaught, Rage Reflection: Things that grant double strike permanently
Temur Battle Rage, Wrecking Ogre, Uncaged Fury, Sangrite Surge, Psychotic Fury, Armed // Dangerous, Assault Strobe: Instants that grant double strike
Basicly attempt to add the B fattys
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Since there wasn't actually a direct answer to this question:
No.
Also, if you cascade into a split card that has a half with smaller CMC then the card with cascade, you get to cast either half.
In short, a card cast with its madness cost is cast from exile, not from the hand.
On an unrelated note, I took the liberty of looking up some (arguably) playable split cards:
Hit // Run
Flesh // Blood
Rough // Tumble
Boom // Bust
Bound // Determined
I really wish Research was useful...
Not too many, but these were the ones I felt would be most useful and could get really cheaty cascades.
I tried to find ones with a useful cheap mode, and with an expensive secondary mode that could still be useful sometimes. I wouldn't want to run more than 1 or two of these cards anyway, since they really aren't all that could without getting a cascade off them.
Flesh // Blood is the one I like the most, as targeted grave removal that can buff Yidris for more commander damage (even if it is 5 mana...) and a 2 mana deal damage spell isn't terrible for the possible advantages.
Also, if you can cascade into a split card, you are able to cast either half. (too bad "Fuse" says "from hand"...what a shame)
Anyone have any good suggestions for counterspells? I've been looking for modal counterspells, like Cryptic Command and Izzet Charm.
Sylvan Library is a must. Also, Jace, the Mind Sculptor if you can afford him.
On phasing:
In addition to those you listed: Mystic Confluence and Venser, Shaper Savant. Technically Temur Charm qualifies, but it's probably a stretch being that its other modes are less attractive.
Silumgar's Command as well.
My Maelstrom Wanderer deck runs Cryptic, Mystic, and Venser only. Theoretically you can run Remand as well and gain some additional value, but I found that situation to be rather niche, so I ultimately cut it from MW.
Next, you'll want to have some free spells, or spells that can be cost for reduced price. For example, Snuff Out can be cast for 0 mana and can start a 4-CMC cascade. Mulldrifter can be cast for 3 mana but can start a 5-CMC cascade. Tasigur can be cast for as little as 1 mana but can start a 6-CMC cascade. You'll also want to avoid cards that can be dead cascades, or play only the critical ones (for example don't play 30 counterspells, but cryptic command is a strong counterspell that is also a fine cascade).
One other secret tech could be Blasphemous Act. You can cast it for as little as 1-mana but it will start a 9-CMC cascade if you do it post combat (assuming you need to sweep the board for whatever reason). Since it's also 9-CMC you often won't hit it on a cascade, minimizing the chances that it'll be a dead cascade. If you need sweepers, I also like Perilous Vault as an option, as you can hit it in a cascade and leave it on the field and activate it when needed, as opposed to a traditional sweeper like Damnation which could be a dead/wasted cascade.
Also, split cards interact quite nicely with cascade, since your cascade can hit the lower CMC side, but hitting a split card allows you to cast either half for free, as others in this topic have explained. Offhand I don't know which ones will be great, but they're definitely worth looking into.
Now, colorless mana ramp is not that strong in Yidris (or in most of the 4-color generals outside of the artifact chick). You probably want to get Yidris online ASAP and you need colored mana to do that. Sol ring is still a staple just because it's so good (it doesn't literally help you cast Yidris unless it's for commander tax, but it helps power out the other cards in your deck extremely fast which in turn can help power out Yidris anyway), and mana crypt is a staple if money isn't a concern, but something like Thran Dynamo is not that good in most 4-color decks. etc. With access to green you should have no problems ramping.
Library manipulation can certainly help increase the cascade hits, but don't dig deep. We don't need to play something like Index. Play good ones like Top, scroll rack, brainstorm, etc. Since many of the good ones also cost 1-2 mana, you also may want Ancestral Vision and Lotus Bloom (moreso Vision) as they are quite solid if you cascade into them, and casting 1-mana spells after Yidris lands a hit will auto guarantee that you hit one of them.
essentially, the deck certainly plays similarly to Maelstrom Wanderer, which surprises nobody. The difference is that Yidris wants to cast lots of spells for low CMC to maximize the number of cascade triggers, whereas Maelstrom wanderer wants to play lots of the broken mana rocks and then cascade into huge bombs. For example, Wanderer cascading into Ancestral Vision is merely solid, while Yidris casting a brainstorm to cascade into Ancestral Vision is amazing.
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Or maybe Ally's
Edit:
I just realized Melek, Izzet Paragon has a sweet synergy in herewait nvm. Cascade is cast from exile.BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Oh, and losing white hurts more than you'd expect, and not just cause I use academy rector to cheat omniscience
Yidris doesn't really lend himself to a tribal theme, so that kind of thing is best left to its own dedicated deck
Modern: WURG Twin
Standard: Mardu Planeswalkers
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/deck-creation-standard/661834-mardu-planeswalker?comment=1
Monthly Proxy Legacy
Charlotte/Greensboro area, NC
Pm me for details
Though i would need to untap yidris some how too.... Think of infinite combos with me D:
If i use that and i have a +1+1 counter on hellkite charger and yidris equipped with bear umbra. i could use Vigean Graftmage to make a bunch of cascade. Perfect for Multiplayer games. i wouldnt even need Staff of dom to go infinite
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/yidris-the-spellcaster/?cat=&sort=cost
(This list was just thrown together and needs a lot of work still but u should get the idea)
Basically and instant/sorcery themed deck with cards like Guttersnipe as the main synergies.
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
I've been trying to put my decklist together, and I'm not sure how I feel about these just yet.
It seems good in theory, but I'm also considering if such cards get cascaded into...It seems rather bad overall when considering that. I wouldn't mind cascading into Top, Scroll Rack, or even Brainstorm to stack the deck, but I would feel pretty bad if you end up cascading into Reclaim or Noxious Revivial, especially when you can play cards like Regrowth instead and get more card advantage out of it.
I'd almost rather add redundancy for the really good spells rather than just put them back on top. With wheels you have Time Spiral, Wheel of Fortune, Windfall, and quite a few others if you need more than 2 or three. If you can afford them there's 3 Time Warp variants (you could even play Savor the Moment!) Temporal Manipulation is actually not terribly expensive compared to some other staples thrown around in this format.
In short, my point is you'd probably be better off adding redundancy to the kind of spells you want to be cascading into instead of things like Reclaim, there are more than enough options in GRUB. But by all means, test it out and see how it goes! This is just a hunch, after all.