I don't like Sakiki nearly as much as I do Rakdos, personally. Sakiko is a 6 mana 3/3 with no evasion. Not only is it harder to cast into, but she dies to everything, and can't even reliably swing in for damage herself. The ability is much worse than Rakdos in comparison too, since it doesn't apply a cost reduction and only adds mana to your pool, she doesn't offer nearly as good best case scanario, and worst case she's even worse. Additional effects are good, but Sakiko would not make the cut in my deck, personally.
Same with Animar. He's much better, but simply too slow to accrue counters unless you run ALL creatures, and he's not super great unless you run creatures that are specifically good with him (Man-o'-War and friends).
Of course they are certainly viable options, but Rakdos really seems like the best guy for the job in this department. I don't personally think this is an effect I would want redundancy for.
On another note, consider running Notion Thief If you have a bunch of wheels. It's just a great hate card in and of itself, should probably be in every deck that has U/B in all honesty.
Hmmm, all valid points. It is also possible with running on those outside of good ol' Rakdos, may make the deck a tad too dependent on them which could affect a lot of things such as mana curve and # of creatures. Sakikio does possess a lot of issues. She gives a decent ability but is somewhat costly and doesn't work towards it.
Animar is slow if you don't hit creatures, which is fully possible considering that we're abusing cascade and it's simply impossible to control all of that. Animar is powerful but maybe a tad too narrow focused? Much better as the leader instead of the lieutenant.
Rakdos is bigger than both in P/T and cheaper than Sakiko, so there's a better chance at hitting him. He also actively contributes to his ability by being able to punch stuff in the face with flying and trample.
Again, good, logical points to counter the hype train.
Also, should have thought of Notion Thief, earlier.
With all the library manipulation, Rashmi, Eternities Crafter would be a fitting inclusion. Having her could add pressure if combat is not in your favor (i.e., when Yidris cannot attack due to Ghostly Prison and such). He ability also stacks with Yidris when you landed an attack.
I'm thinking of running countermagic in the form of Condescend, Unsubstantiate and Remand. If you cascade into Condescend, you essentially get to scry 2 for free by targeting your own spell, and Unsubstantiate and Remand will let you re-cast the same spell and cascade again. I'm generally more excited for Unsubstantiate though, cuz you can also use it to bounce and re-cascade your own creatures or get creatures out of Yidris's way.
As soon as I am done building Breya, I will be working on Yidris. I am looking at doing an enchantment and discard theme so that my cascades are never dead hits.
Okay, I'm starting to make my deck for Yidris creatures and have dismantled ol' Animar, which provides me a huge creature base to choose from. Naturally, however, that amount of creatures needs to be really trimmed down. I've gotten a lot of good ideas from this thread but I've come up with a lot ones that I feel could work but I'm afraid of including too many creatures.
As such, I've taken the time to reflect on each of the cards and think of reasons to put them in or not.
Cards I can definitely see being in the deck:
Birds of Paradise: Easy to cast or cascade into. Really, access to any color mana I want at such a simple price is hard to say no to.
Bloodbraid Elf: Natural cascade and good for getting those lower cost but useful spells.
Deadeye Navigator: Combos with Peregrine/Palinchron for infinite mana but also is just useful for abusing ETB effects.
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Yidris is going to be smacking face a lot, might as well as get some more CA out it. Add onto that, he's easy on the mana sources.
Etherium-Horn Sorcerer: Another natural cascade but is also reusable by it's own nature.
Farhaven Elf: Cheap mana ramp with an expendable body.
Inferno Titan: Decent creature with a good ability to abuse. Combos with DE and infinite mana for infinite damage.
Maelstrom Wanderer: The big cascade machine himself! He's a big body and grants everything haste. What's not to love.
Master Biomancer: The ability to bolster almost every creature I play has won me more games than I can count.
Notion Thief: A good hate card that can give quite a bit of advantage.
Palinchron/Peregrine Drake: Combos for infinite mana but counts as a free spell by itself which will count for quite a bit with Yidris.
Rakdos, Lord of Riots: Big body, easy to cascade into due to how Yidris works. Also, his abilities feed into Yidris' and make it that much easier to pull ahead while punching that much more face.
Rashmi, Eternities Crafter: She acts like a mini-cascade generator. Especially useful if Yidris has been tied up or otherwise rendered impotent.
Rune-Scarred Demon: A notable tutor who becomes even better with cascade.
Emrakul, the Promised End: A card who can turn the tide of the game, huge body and who even lowers her own cost to boot.
Eternal Witness: A good recovery card but with all the cascades going on with Yidris, I'm scared I'll hit before she's needed.
Fauna Shaman: A valuable tutor but real target and easy to kill. I've also got Survival of the Fittest which doesn't tap and is the same cost.
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur: A truly oppressive card but extremely high cost. A good reanimation target but is he truly worth it? And by that, do you think he'd be consistent enough to be more than 'win-more'.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth: A powerful creature who gives good CA and recycle the deck to be played again.
Oracle of Mul Daya: Can really give ramp and let's me know my next card but it also let's everyone else know to.
Platinum Angel: This card can truly save your life but that doesn't mean it should be in every deck.
Progenitor Mimic: One of the best clone cards who can make you an army given enough time. Just don't know if it's fast acting enough for the deck.
Sakashima the Impostor: One of the most unique clone cards I've even seen and has some really unique applications but he needs the right target.
Shaman of the Great Hunt: He feeds right into Yidris' strategy with his +1/+1 counter ability. But he's fragile as all heck.
Soul of the Harvest: Another good CA card but I just don't know if I'll end up playing enough creatures to make him worth it.
Surrak Dragonclaw: Great against counter spells and gives trample but I don't know if that by itself is worth it.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang: Big body and delve makes him valuable as cascade but I don't know if he'll do enough on once he's on the field. Basically, does he do enough to warrant his place.
Urabrask the Hidden: The guy who makes mass attack possible while hindering your enemy. I'm heavily debating if that alone is worth it.
Venser, Shaper Savant: Great card. I'm just scared I'll hit him a tad to early to be any real use.
Vigor: This guy makes combat almost always end in your favor.
I now see an irony with Yidris. As we put effort into making this 5/4 trample general hitting our opponent, either by Swords or other kind of spells, he'd end the game within a few turns with general damage, he's very much a voltron general with benefits, is this who Yidris essentially is?
One a similar note, Yidris wants to cast expensive spell after combat to trigger the biggest possible cascade, Intet, the Dreamer on the other hand casts any spell for 2U. While she costs 6 cmc, she benefits more from good library manipulation, can cast Time Stretch more readily than Yidris, for one
I now see an irony with Yidris. As we put effort into making this 5/4 trample general hitting our opponent, either by Swords or other kind of spells, he'd end the game within a few turns with general damage, he's very much a voltron general with benefits, is this who Yidris essentially is?
One a similar note, Yidris wants to cast expensive spell after combat to trigger the biggest possible cascade, Intet, the Dreamer on the other hand casts any spell for 2U. While she costs 6 cmc, she benefits more from good library manipulation, can cast Time Stretch more readily than Yidris, for one
Without a doubt voltron is an option and as you said something that can pretty easily happen without even trying. I don't think I'd call him a voltron general though as he is in no way limited to that strategy In most decks it'll probably be plan B or C. It would be interesting to see a deck where you are just casting voltron stuff and cascading into more voltron stuff. I could see that getting out of hand pretty quick.
I think Yidris as the potential to get really out of hand with almost any strategy because he boils down to a very simple equation: punch to the face + cast a spell = get to play another spell for free. Simple method with massive payoffs. There's just so much he can facilitate: voltron, storm, goodstuff. It's all viable with him. He can win with commander damage or various other combos.
Without a doubt voltron is an option and as you said something that can pretty easily happen without even trying. I don't think I'd call him a voltron general though as he is in no way limited to that strategy In most decks it'll probably be plan B or C. It would be interesting to see a deck where you are just casting voltron stuff and cascading into more voltron stuff. I could see that getting out of hand pretty quick.
Yo dawg, I herd you like Voltron, so I put a Yidris in your deck so you can Voltron while you Voltron.
The Charms/Commands are great since you usually want one of the modes at the time even if you cascade into them. Buyback and Flashback allows you to keep on cascading for smaller cmc's (and Fanning the Flames, with enough mana, can cascade for larger cmc's). Insidious Dreams and Lim-Dûl's Vault before the combat trigger lets you stack your deck perfectly for cascades. There's also interesting things like Holistic Wisdom and Nostalgic Dreams to recycle amazing things you've already cascaded into or get a specific cmc for cascading out of your graveyard.
I just built a janky mid-range version but it's not bad just because his cascading gives insane value. I'm thinking of trying out some of the things I mentioned earlier but I didn't think of them at the time.
I just realized that if have 2 1 cmc spells (one in gy), 0 cmc spell in gy and something like Epitaph Golem you can cast the 0 cmc spell as many times as you like.
For that process coming online a bit faster [through cascade] (and a bit safer from removal)... have you met Reito Lantern? :-D
And yeah... its nuts in Yidris. Oh yeah, the lantern says a graveyard, not your graveyard too - so its also a way to hose other recursion decks. It is one more mana to activate though.
Fuse cards- because you have to hit a card with lower cmc and then cast it for free this allows you to cast both halves of the fuse card for free even if one is a 2 drop and the other is a 5 drop.
Fuse requires it's cast from your hand to get both halves.
I now see an irony with Yidris. As we put effort into making this 5/4 trample general hitting our opponent, either by Swords or other kind of spells, he'd end the game within a few turns with general damage, he's very much a voltron general with benefits, is this who Yidris essentially is?
One a similar note, Yidris wants to cast expensive spell after combat to trigger the biggest possible cascade, Intet, the Dreamer on the other hand casts any spell for 2U. While she costs 6 cmc, she benefits more from good library manipulation, can cast Time Stretch more readily than Yidris, for one
I think just the opposite of this. Yidris wants you to cast as many spells in a turn as possible. Each trigger is a new card from your deck. If you compare the results of casting one 6cmc spell post-combat and 3x 2cmc spells that replace themselves, results from the 3x small spells will be better every time. That’s a Sol Ring, Ancestral Vision, Mana Crypt, etc all in one turn. Whereas the 6cmc card might only give you one small spell. Even if it gives you a big one, it’s only one card.
Now, 6cmc cards that refund cards and/or mana (like Time Spiral) are another story. In fact, any spell that refunds its mana Manamorphose, Frantic Search etc, would be a no-brainer.
Also on the topic of Voltron, I’m not sure Yidris is that great at it. Granted, there are fun times to be had with Civic Saber. Psychotic Fury and Might of the Nephilim, but Voltron decks typically cast most of their spells in the pre-combat main or on other players’ turns. Obviously, you wouldn’t get Cascade at either of those times. Tapping out post-combat seems really hard to do when you have a high-threat general that you want to last multiple orbits. You’d probably be limiting the Cascade material in the deck to a few 1cmc spells and 2cmc mana rocks. Plenty of value for your rocks and cantrips, but Voltron really doesn’t want to be a tap out deck.
While on the topic of counterspells too, come to think of that kind of a setup, I don’t think it would be an impossible endeavor at all to include some. Say that you had a lot of spells at 1-3cmc and never really planned on casting anything else on your post-combat main, you wouldn’t ever waste a Cascade on a counterspell costed 3cmc or greater (read, most of the good double-Blue ones). You could even run cards as expensive as Swords, and if all your counters are 3cmc and up, then they would never interfere with each other. On what little 4cmc+ you had, like Blood Mist, you could probably live with missing once in a while. Now, I’m not sure why you’d ever cast that particular card post-combat, but you get the idea.
To make sure I understand what you are saying about the counterspells, you're saying that they would be your top end stuff and almost everything else would cost 3 or less?
To make sure I understand what you are saying about the counterspells, you're saying that they would be your top end stuff and almost everything else would cost 3 or less?
Yeah, if you rarely cast anything over 3cmc during second main, then you will rarely blank a Cascade into a counterspell that is >3 cmc.
With Maelstrom Wanderer, Dream Fracture would blank every time you found it at the top of your deck. But with Yidris, you have more flexibility. And I doubt you will miss a 6cmc card cascading when your deck is 2cmc average. Half the time a 3cmc card would have hit the same spell, anyway.
Beaides, 1cmc cards give you the best selection on cascades in the first place. Put in Ancestral Vision, Mana Crypt, Lotus Bloom, and Wheel of Fate, and stock your deck with the 1cmc cantrips. Doing just thqt and you have most all the mana and cards you need for the typical game, just by spending 1 mana post-combat over a couple turns. No other cascade tricks needed.
So the plan with that kind of build would be commander damage for the win? Though i find a combo win with 2 cmc cards, so I supper that's always an option with as much card draw as you'd have
I think you're on to something with your low cmc theory. It should be be better to cascade 3 times and get six 1-3 cmc cards than cast one 6 cmc and risk cascading into a 1 cmc card. Of course you can avoid this with top deck manipulation but you will need to dedicate a decent portion of your deck to that strategy. What would the win condition be if we are going the low cmc route? I'd be afraid of just durdling a bunch and not actually winning the game.
When focusing the deck on combat damage triggers you can add a lot of unblockable, haste and double strike enablers. Sure, it's good for Yidris but it's also good for the rest of the deck. Already managed to get quadruple Cascade once with Savage Beating. That was a jolly good time.
I wonder how good savage beating really is. double strike and extra combats are things yidris wants but beating costs 7 mana to get full value. If you pay 7 mana how much you have left? You still need to cast stuff from your hand. Also beating is pretty awkward to cascade into (sure you can make it so that your only 5 cmc spell is beating but still...) due to its' casting restrictions.
I've been tinkering with a few builds. I think the most effective way to play this deck is a hate-bear stax style that basically stops its curve at Time Warp. Extra turns are exactly what you want to be doing in this type of deck. Free spells like Peregrine Drake, Time Spiral, and Manamorphose go extremely well here, letting you chain out awesome turns. Also, you don't mind casting them initially or cascading into them.
One of the best cards for this deck is Bloom Tender. Absolutely absurd. Sakashima the Imposter is probably the one 'double strike' card I would consider playing.
After playing this style for a while, I've learned to not rely on the cascade ability. You use it early game if you can to eek out value, or late-game to drown your opponents in card-advantage. Many of our spells are not excellent cascades, like Three Visits or Deathrite Shaman.
I think you're on to something with your low cmc theory. It should be be better to cascade 3 times and get six 1-3 cmc cards than cast one 6 cmc and risk cascading into a 1 cmc card. Of course you can avoid this with top deck manipulation but you will need to dedicate a decent portion of your deck to that strategy. What would the win condition be if we are going the low cmc route? I'd be afraid of just durdling a bunch and not actually winning the game.
Well if you’re not opposed to it, a “spellslinger” combo win condition is a pretty natural fit. Something like Jeleva storm with a few Green cards like Regrowth. The challenge would be playing it right. Storm requires a “critical mass” to go off, and can blank otherwise, meanwhile Yidris wants you to start casting stuff whenever you get a trigger. Maybe built correctly, the chance of blanking after cascading 2-3 rituals in a turn is low, but Storm seems like it will always blank in EDH whenever you don’t get the critical cards (Intuition, YagWin, Past in Flames, etc). One possible solution to that would be giving Yidris Flash, since you wouldn’t have to cast him until you were ready to go off.
A combat related win condition might work too. There’s access to good post-combat cards like Wood Elves, and then Craterhoof Behemoth. The only concerns with going Voltron is the space dedicated just to working against Maze of Ith and blockers, and then being stranded with a single creature against Grave Pact and Fleshbag Marauder effects. TBH, White is the best support color for Voltron, with lots of weenies like Stoneforge Mystic, Puresteel Paladin and Selfless Spirit supporting the general. The only time I’ve ever done a Voltron build without White was with Mimeo, and Mimeo is Mimeo.
Another possible wincon is Palinchron. There’s a lot of reason to be casting 2cmc ramp cards post-combat, and with them replacing themselves, that gets your land count pretty high pretty quickly. And Tooth and Nail is possible here.
Point is, Cascade only directly contributes to the win condition if you are playing Storm. Other more traditional win cons, you can probably derive most of the value just from casting low cmc cards, and you get tons of ramp and draw for free.
I like it because I don't mind playing it after combat or off a cascade. Can always just take the extra combat step.
And if you play it entwined post combat you get the same 4 cascades, one off beating and 3 off the other spell instead of 4 off the second one. That will probably work out better sense the first cascade will be off 5cmc and the second spell will usually cost less
I wasn't aware that Ydris, Maelstrom Weilder was a card. Kinda thought it was Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder. However, sure, I like the look of this guy a lot. I really like the look of giving this guy double strike. What I don't like is that he is only 4 CMC, which means that he cannot cascade into turn manipulation cards such as Time Warp or Walk the Aeons. However, I think that he is probably one of the best precon commanders, just trailing behind Atraxa, Praetor's Voice in my opinion.
His cmc has nothing to do with his cascade ability. He gives other spells cascade and they can cost whatever they want.
as strong an effect as extra turn cards are it is hard to use them effectively with cascade sense anything costly enough to cascade into most ofthen will just stop on the first spell they find. Casting them from your hand is good but they don't make reliable cascade targets
Double strike cards with yidris is strong but many of them are useless post combat making them wiffs on cascade, because of that, I have ignored most of then and just focused on the permanents that give it or cards like savage beating that can still be used 2nd main phase.
Hmmm, all valid points. It is also possible with running on those outside of good ol' Rakdos, may make the deck a tad too dependent on them which could affect a lot of things such as mana curve and # of creatures. Sakikio does possess a lot of issues. She gives a decent ability but is somewhat costly and doesn't work towards it.
Animar is slow if you don't hit creatures, which is fully possible considering that we're abusing cascade and it's simply impossible to control all of that. Animar is powerful but maybe a tad too narrow focused? Much better as the leader instead of the lieutenant.
Rakdos is bigger than both in P/T and cheaper than Sakiko, so there's a better chance at hitting him. He also actively contributes to his ability by being able to punch stuff in the face with flying and trample.
Again, good, logical points to counter the hype train.
Also, should have thought of Notion Thief, earlier.
BK'rrik Goodstuff
GWSythis Enchantress
URYusri Coin Flip
BRGKorvold Tokens
BGUYarok Lands Matter
WUBRaffine Looter
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Also I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Summoner's Pact.
As soon as I am done building Breya, I will be working on Yidris. I am looking at doing an enchantment and discard theme so that my cascades are never dead hits.
The Mimeoplasm || Karador, Ghost Chieftain
Prossh, Skyraider of Kher || Vial Smasher/Tymna Group Slug
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief || Talrand, Sky Summoner
Yidris - Unblockable Saboteurs || Kiki-Jiki, ETB breaker
Kess, Dissident Mage
As such, I've taken the time to reflect on each of the cards and think of reasons to put them in or not.
Cards I can definitely see being in the deck:
Birds of Paradise: Easy to cast or cascade into. Really, access to any color mana I want at such a simple price is hard to say no to.
Bloodbraid Elf: Natural cascade and good for getting those lower cost but useful spells.
Consecrated Sphinx: Do I have to explain this one?
Deadeye Navigator: Combos with Peregrine/Palinchron for infinite mana but also is just useful for abusing ETB effects.
Edric, Spymaster of Trest: Yidris is going to be smacking face a lot, might as well as get some more CA out it. Add onto that, he's easy on the mana sources.
Etherium-Horn Sorcerer: Another natural cascade but is also reusable by it's own nature.
Farhaven Elf: Cheap mana ramp with an expendable body.
Inferno Titan: Decent creature with a good ability to abuse. Combos with DE and infinite mana for infinite damage.
Kaseto, Orochi Archmage: Cheap evasion enabler.
Lotus Cobra: Extra mana is always a good thing.
Maelstrom Wanderer: The big cascade machine himself! He's a big body and grants everything haste. What's not to love.
Master Biomancer: The ability to bolster almost every creature I play has won me more games than I can count.
Notion Thief: A good hate card that can give quite a bit of advantage.
Palinchron/Peregrine Drake: Combos for infinite mana but counts as a free spell by itself which will count for quite a bit with Yidris.
Rakdos, Lord of Riots: Big body, easy to cascade into due to how Yidris works. Also, his abilities feed into Yidris' and make it that much easier to pull ahead while punching that much more face.
Rashmi, Eternities Crafter: She acts like a mini-cascade generator. Especially useful if Yidris has been tied up or otherwise rendered impotent.
Rune-Scarred Demon: A notable tutor who becomes even better with cascade.
Sakura-Tribe Elder: Cheap creature based ramp.
Solemn Simulacrum: EDH staple.
Thassa, God of the Sea: Cheap deck manipulation and evasion enabler with indestructibility to boot.
Thunderfoot Baloth: A nice little boost to all my creatures.
Xenagos, God of Revels: The guy who makes punching face easy as pie. Need I say more?
Now, here we have the creatures that I'm really questioning about. Each is pretty valuable in their own right but the deck's only got so much room.
Duplicant: A beautiful removal card.
Emrakul, the Promised End: A card who can turn the tide of the game, huge body and who even lowers her own cost to boot.
Eternal Witness: A good recovery card but with all the cascades going on with Yidris, I'm scared I'll hit before she's needed.
Fauna Shaman: A valuable tutor but real target and easy to kill. I've also got Survival of the Fittest which doesn't tap and is the same cost.
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur: A truly oppressive card but extremely high cost. A good reanimation target but is he truly worth it? And by that, do you think he'd be consistent enough to be more than 'win-more'.
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth: A powerful creature who gives good CA and recycle the deck to be played again.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary: A good deck manipulator but an instant target as well as being fragile.
Oracle of Mul Daya: Can really give ramp and let's me know my next card but it also let's everyone else know to.
Platinum Angel: This card can truly save your life but that doesn't mean it should be in every deck.
Progenitor Mimic: One of the best clone cards who can make you an army given enough time. Just don't know if it's fast acting enough for the deck.
Sakashima the Impostor: One of the most unique clone cards I've even seen and has some really unique applications but he needs the right target.
Shaman of the Great Hunt: He feeds right into Yidris' strategy with his +1/+1 counter ability. But he's fragile as all heck.
Soul of the Harvest: Another good CA card but I just don't know if I'll end up playing enough creatures to make him worth it.
Surrak Dragonclaw: Great against counter spells and gives trample but I don't know if that by itself is worth it.
Tasigur, the Golden Fang: Big body and delve makes him valuable as cascade but I don't know if he'll do enough on once he's on the field. Basically, does he do enough to warrant his place.
Urabrask the Hidden: The guy who makes mass attack possible while hindering your enemy. I'm heavily debating if that alone is worth it.
Venser, Shaper Savant: Great card. I'm just scared I'll hit him a tad to early to be any real use.
Vigor: This guy makes combat almost always end in your favor.
BK'rrik Goodstuff
GWSythis Enchantress
URYusri Coin Flip
BRGKorvold Tokens
BGUYarok Lands Matter
WUBRaffine Looter
One a similar note, Yidris wants to cast expensive spell after combat to trigger the biggest possible cascade, Intet, the Dreamer on the other hand casts any spell for 2U. While she costs 6 cmc, she benefits more from good library manipulation, can cast Time Stretch more readily than Yidris, for one
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Without a doubt voltron is an option and as you said something that can pretty easily happen without even trying. I don't think I'd call him a voltron general though as he is in no way limited to that strategy In most decks it'll probably be plan B or C. It would be interesting to see a deck where you are just casting voltron stuff and cascading into more voltron stuff. I could see that getting out of hand pretty quick.
Simply put: he bloody good general.
BK'rrik Goodstuff
GWSythis Enchantress
URYusri Coin Flip
BRGKorvold Tokens
BGUYarok Lands Matter
WUBRaffine Looter
Yo dawg, I herd you like Voltron, so I put a Yidris in your deck so you can Voltron while you Voltron.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
I just built a janky mid-range version but it's not bad just because his cascading gives insane value. I'm thinking of trying out some of the things I mentioned earlier but I didn't think of them at the time.
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
For that process coming online a bit faster [through cascade] (and a bit safer from removal)... have you met Reito Lantern? :-D
And yeah... its nuts in Yidris. Oh yeah, the lantern says a graveyard, not your graveyard too - so its also a way to hose other recursion decks. It is one more mana to activate though.
Custom Set
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hu9uNBSUt92PwGhvexYlwFvsh6_SJBlEEIUV3H9_XyU/edit?usp=sharing
Fuse requires it's cast from your hand to get both halves.
I think just the opposite of this. Yidris wants you to cast as many spells in a turn as possible. Each trigger is a new card from your deck. If you compare the results of casting one 6cmc spell post-combat and 3x 2cmc spells that replace themselves, results from the 3x small spells will be better every time. That’s a Sol Ring, Ancestral Vision, Mana Crypt, etc all in one turn. Whereas the 6cmc card might only give you one small spell. Even if it gives you a big one, it’s only one card.
Now, 6cmc cards that refund cards and/or mana (like Time Spiral) are another story. In fact, any spell that refunds its mana Manamorphose, Frantic Search etc, would be a no-brainer.
Also on the topic of Voltron, I’m not sure Yidris is that great at it. Granted, there are fun times to be had with Civic Saber. Psychotic Fury and Might of the Nephilim, but Voltron decks typically cast most of their spells in the pre-combat main or on other players’ turns. Obviously, you wouldn’t get Cascade at either of those times. Tapping out post-combat seems really hard to do when you have a high-threat general that you want to last multiple orbits. You’d probably be limiting the Cascade material in the deck to a few 1cmc spells and 2cmc mana rocks. Plenty of value for your rocks and cantrips, but Voltron really doesn’t want to be a tap out deck.
While on the topic of counterspells too, come to think of that kind of a setup, I don’t think it would be an impossible endeavor at all to include some. Say that you had a lot of spells at 1-3cmc and never really planned on casting anything else on your post-combat main, you wouldn’t ever waste a Cascade on a counterspell costed 3cmc or greater (read, most of the good double-Blue ones). You could even run cards as expensive as Swords, and if all your counters are 3cmc and up, then they would never interfere with each other. On what little 4cmc+ you had, like Blood Mist, you could probably live with missing once in a while. Now, I’m not sure why you’d ever cast that particular card post-combat, but you get the idea.
Modern: WURG Twin
Standard: Mardu Planeswalkers
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Yeah, if you rarely cast anything over 3cmc during second main, then you will rarely blank a Cascade into a counterspell that is >3 cmc.
With Maelstrom Wanderer, Dream Fracture would blank every time you found it at the top of your deck. But with Yidris, you have more flexibility. And I doubt you will miss a 6cmc card cascading when your deck is 2cmc average. Half the time a 3cmc card would have hit the same spell, anyway.
Beaides, 1cmc cards give you the best selection on cascades in the first place. Put in Ancestral Vision, Mana Crypt, Lotus Bloom, and Wheel of Fate, and stock your deck with the 1cmc cantrips. Doing just thqt and you have most all the mana and cards you need for the typical game, just by spending 1 mana post-combat over a couple turns. No other cascade tricks needed.
Modern: WURG Twin
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Modern: WURG Twin
Standard: Mardu Planeswalkers
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I wonder how good savage beating really is. double strike and extra combats are things yidris wants but beating costs 7 mana to get full value. If you pay 7 mana how much you have left? You still need to cast stuff from your hand. Also beating is pretty awkward to cascade into (sure you can make it so that your only 5 cmc spell is beating but still...) due to its' casting restrictions.
My build loves to abuse Marchesa, the Black Rose and Leovold, Emissary of Trest.
One of the best cards for this deck is Bloom Tender. Absolutely absurd. Sakashima the Imposter is probably the one 'double strike' card I would consider playing.
After playing this style for a while, I've learned to not rely on the cascade ability. You use it early game if you can to eek out value, or late-game to drown your opponents in card-advantage. Many of our spells are not excellent cascades, like Three Visits or Deathrite Shaman.
Well if you’re not opposed to it, a “spellslinger” combo win condition is a pretty natural fit. Something like Jeleva storm with a few Green cards like Regrowth. The challenge would be playing it right. Storm requires a “critical mass” to go off, and can blank otherwise, meanwhile Yidris wants you to start casting stuff whenever you get a trigger. Maybe built correctly, the chance of blanking after cascading 2-3 rituals in a turn is low, but Storm seems like it will always blank in EDH whenever you don’t get the critical cards (Intuition, YagWin, Past in Flames, etc). One possible solution to that would be giving Yidris Flash, since you wouldn’t have to cast him until you were ready to go off.
A combat related win condition might work too. There’s access to good post-combat cards like Wood Elves, and then Craterhoof Behemoth. The only concerns with going Voltron is the space dedicated just to working against Maze of Ith and blockers, and then being stranded with a single creature against Grave Pact and Fleshbag Marauder effects. TBH, White is the best support color for Voltron, with lots of weenies like Stoneforge Mystic, Puresteel Paladin and Selfless Spirit supporting the general. The only time I’ve ever done a Voltron build without White was with Mimeo, and Mimeo is Mimeo.
Another possible wincon is Palinchron. There’s a lot of reason to be casting 2cmc ramp cards post-combat, and with them replacing themselves, that gets your land count pretty high pretty quickly. And Tooth and Nail is possible here.
Point is, Cascade only directly contributes to the win condition if you are playing Storm. Other more traditional win cons, you can probably derive most of the value just from casting low cmc cards, and you get tons of ramp and draw for free.
And if you play it entwined post combat you get the same 4 cascades, one off beating and 3 off the other spell instead of 4 off the second one. That will probably work out better sense the first cascade will be off 5cmc and the second spell will usually cost less
Modern: WURG Twin
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However, let's build! Definitely we should shove as many turn manipulation cards in here as possible. Part the Waterveil, Walk the Aeons, Time Warp, Capture of Jingzhou and Temporal Mastery are all amazing cards.
Double strike cards are amazing as well.
Can't think of anything else at the moment to be honest.
EDH:
Maelstrom Wanderer
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
as strong an effect as extra turn cards are it is hard to use them effectively with cascade sense anything costly enough to cascade into most ofthen will just stop on the first spell they find. Casting them from your hand is good but they don't make reliable cascade targets
Double strike cards with yidris is strong but many of them are useless post combat making them wiffs on cascade, because of that, I have ignored most of then and just focused on the permanents that give it or cards like savage beating that can still be used 2nd main phase.
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