I know adding 79 new commanders sounds fun and all but really we have 658 legal commanders currently... Its not like we truly need more.
We need hundreds more commanders.
Saying the raw number doesn't mean we have a good usable number.
Hundreds and hundreds of legends are just totally useless.
I have already grown completely bored with EDH because no general in existence interests me anymore. The format is dead to me because of this.
I also just don't understand people making a power level argument.
In super strong metas, it doesn't matter because everything is already broken. There is no way walkers are more broken than what's already legal.
In more fair metas they are a political weakness, everyone loves attacking planeswalkers because it's almost free from a politics standpoint. On top of their effects just not really being all that strong for the mana you pay. Their power comes from being able to activate them multiple times, and your opponents get many more combat phases to attack it than a normal 1v1 game.
There's also the issue of Green planeswalkers and Doubling Season. Have the Season out and Garruk, Primal Hunter becomes 2GGG: Put X 6/6 wurm tokens onto the battlefield, where X is twice the number of lands you control. This card gets 2 more expensive each time you cast it.
That's small potatoes compared to what you can do with multicoloured Planeswalkers.
Kiora, Master of the Depths becomes "You get an emblem with "Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may have it fight target creature." Then create six 8/8 blue Octopus creature tokens." for 2GU. Sarkhan Vol becomes "Create ten 4/4 red Dragon creature tokens with flying." for 2RG. Vraska the Unseen becomes "Create six 1/1 black Assassin creature tokens with "Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, that player loses the game."" for 3BG.
Heck, I already run Doubling Season in my Damia, Sage of Stone deck, and it's backbreaking when I get to resolve even one Planeswalker ultimate right out of the gate. Having that kind of power sitting in your command zone... well, I think they'd have to strike Doubling Season from the format.
There's also the issue of Green planeswalkers and Doubling Season. Have the Season out and Garruk, Primal Hunter becomes 2GGG: Put X 6/6 wurm tokens onto the battlefield, where X is twice the number of lands you control. This card gets 2 more expensive each time you cast it.
That's small potatoes compared to what you can do with multicoloured Planeswalkers.
Kiora, Master of the Depths becomes "You get an emblem with "Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may have it fight target creature." Then create six 8/8 blue Octopus creature tokens." for 2GU. Sarkhan Vol becomes "Create ten 4/4 red Dragon creature tokens with flying." for 2RG. Vraska the Unseen becomes "Create six 1/1 black Assassin creature tokens with "Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, that player loses the game."" for 3BG.
Heck, I already run Doubling Season in my Damia, Sage of Stone deck, and it's backbreaking when I get to resolve even one Planeswalker ultimate right out of the gate. Having that kind of power sitting in your command zone... well, I think they'd have to strike Doubling Season from the format.
You can already run enough walkers to make this happen very consistently anyways
There are more powerful legends you can resolve anyways that are less conditional, like zur, narset, leovold, prossh, sidisi
Okay, if you guys are so worried about PW + Doubling Season combos, look at what's legal that is already insane. Azami + Mind over Matter, Necrotic Ooze combos, Doomsday, Prosh Foodchain, etc etc. Can't think of a single PW ultimate that immediately wins the game like they do. So um yeah, it's not a question of is power level keeping this from happening.
On the flip side, you have to ask yourself this: "Okay, so they don't just auto win like the other infamous combos, but would it make the game unfun?" In non-competitive metas someone utilizing PWs over and over, getting one or two ults because of Doubling Season, will get loud groans from the table. They may not win automatically, but they'll generate so much advantage that their opponents will see it as an uphill battle that just may not be worth fighting.
I wasn't receptive to this idea and even though the current 5 that can be used aren't exactly stellar (still great though), I think it can be done, but it requires so much work on both WotC (design) and the RC's end (ban decisions) that I don't think it will ever happen outside of Commander products.
The real issue I see is not so much the combo-potential involving the planeswalkers, but how much better are they as a "toolbox" option compared to Legendary Creatures. Arcum Dagsson probably combos better (by speed), but Tezzeret the Seeker is a lot more versatile. It's a fine line of deciding which ones are "way too versatile" and as a result, centralize the choices around themselves instead when they are a Commander.
Then we get to the non-existent "Banned as Commander List". Without reverting changes, adding planeswalkers also means we'll most likely lose the use of a handful of planeswalkers for use in the format. Imagine Ugin, the Spirit Dragon not being usable simply because it was deemed too powerful as a Commander (please don't debate specifics, this is just a random example, I'm not doing the brainwork for a banlist of a hypothetical scenario).
I bawl my eyes out, upon witnessing the sheer hypocrisy, when people say Walkers are too broken as legends. They start all comments mentioning the one-two punch with Doubling Season.
Get a grip people. There's so many two-card combos not involving a walker yet people talk as if those existing combos were put under a rug.
The OP is making a good premise and idea here. Whether it's viable it's up for debate but don't no one should discuss/dismiss things without an objective view.
Most are just looking at a few obvious examples without looking at the bigger picture. And thus making some very obtuse comments. Walkers like Liliana (whichever version), Chandra (same) or even Jace are fine in a multiplayer setting.
Any veteran can tell you that most walkers are really not better off than creatures. They're extremely vulnerable to attacks; creatures can't be attacked (by the rules of the game). Most aren't very influential to a boardstate. It's very unlikely you see a walker surviving a few rounds without having some initial defense setup.
I'd be more likely to accept a counterargument if someone said walkers aren't doing as much as their creature counterparts, than just "Hur hur, Doubling Season, hur hur".
I'd be more likely to accept a counterargument if someone said walkers aren't doing as much as their creature counterparts, than just "Hur hur, Doubling Season, hur hur".
I hardly consider a planeswalkers ultimate when considering this topic, but many walkers can be pretty oppressive in 1v1 environments with just their +/- abilities.
The ultimate may not matter if the walkers earlier abilities can lock down a game.
edit; Per this topic, I really hate the idea of using a non-legendary for a commander. It feels like it is breaking the original conceptual design of the format.
Imo, nope and never. The Commander 2014 PWs' should be banned as Commanders. No player should have access to a PW toolkit whenever they want. PW's should be a rare find...treasured - they come to your aid, have loyalty counters, and when it expires, the PW is no longer loyal and moves onward to their next adventure.
I'd even be up for the idea of Wizards introducing a rule that "when a PW's loyalty reaches 0, exiled this permanent from game."
While I have wanted PWs as legal generals for a while... Even before the precons. I can see the chaos it would cause. I am Betting a good chunk would be hit by the banhammer pretty quickly. Tezz would be game breaking.
-potential slippery slope? Once something like this has been done it opens up the question "why can't we allow other things to become commanders?" for example people may ask for double sided cards with a legendary on the back to bypass the rule, for example elbrus, the binding blade or dark depths
or cards like genju or the legendary vehicle? There are limitations but I do like the idea of pws as a commander... Just some will be problematic and sadly the biggest offenders would also be multicolored. Meaning most decks would end up mono blue or mono green. (jace or access to doubling season)
Gideon 1.0 would be by far the most balanced of the gang, except maybe ajani. Elspeth would be an issue. Sorin. Tezz. We may get 79 new commanders. But half will be gone due to power level. Over time with proper testing they will slowly be unbanned. (Or none will be banned when the rules comitee says "but you can get a llanowar eleves and birds of paradise with tooth and nail... Not broken"
As for Elbrus. It should be legal. Since it can only be played in a black deck. Eve. Though Elbrus is not black the back side is banning it from. Non black decks. So that means that the flip side matters so it is a legal commander in my books (and if not then Elbrus should be playable in any deck.)
I bawl my eyes out, upon witnessing the sheer hypocrisy, when people say Walkers are too broken as legends. They start all comments mentioning the one-two punch with Doubling Season.
Get a grip people. There's so many two-card combos not involving a walker yet people talk as if those existing combos were put under a rug.
The OP is making a good premise and idea here. Whether it's viable it's up for debate but don't no one should discuss/dismiss things without an objective view.
Most are just looking at a few obvious examples without looking at the bigger picture. And thus making some very obtuse comments. Walkers like Liliana (whichever version), Chandra (same) or even Jace are fine in a multiplayer setting.
Any veteran can tell you that most walkers are really not better off than creatures. They're extremely vulnerable to attacks; creatures can't be attacked (by the rules of the game). Most aren't very influential to a boardstate. It's very unlikely you see a walker surviving a few rounds without having some initial defense setup.
I'd be more likely to accept a counterargument if someone said walkers aren't doing as much as their creature counterparts, than just "Hur hur, Doubling Season, hur hur".
I agree with this. I've been playing this format for 5 years and PWs are rarely big play. There are some exceptions but they aren't very threatening in any zone.
Most people are against the idea because theyre scared of change.
-potential slippery slope? Once something like this has been done it opens up the question "why can't we allow other things to become commanders?" for example people may ask for double sided cards with a legendary on the back to bypass the rule, for example elbrus, the binding blade or dark depths
or cards like genju or the legendary vehicle? There are limitations but I do like the idea of pws as a commander... Just some will be problematic and sadly the biggest offenders would also be multicolored. Meaning most decks would end up mono blue or mono green. (jace or access to doubling season)
Gideon 1.0 would be by far the most balanced of the gang, except maybe ajani. Elspeth would be an issue. Sorin. Tezz. We may get 79 new commanders. But half will be gone due to power level. Over time with proper testing they will slowly be unbanned. (Or none will be banned when the rules comitee says "but you can get a llanowar eleves and birds of paradise with tooth and nail... Not broken"
As for Elbrus. It should be legal. Since it can only be played in a black deck. Eve. Though Elbrus is not black the back side is banning it from. Non black decks. So that means that the flip side matters so it is a legal commander in my books (and if not then Elbrus should be playable in any deck.)
One possibility I feel Wizards might eventually experiment with (maybe even with the upcoming Commander product in order to enable the Nephalhim) is 'commander emblems' that you can start the game with in your command zone that simply say "X can be your commander".
In that way it becomes less of an issue because we are essentially looking at a whitelist of non-legendary creatures that can be commanders. It could obviously start with the four Nephalhim, and then have extra versions released through some promo program or something that enable cards like chromanticore and possibly a Planeswalker or two.
If they're reserved about it and don't go printing something stupid like emblems for Arcbound Ravager or Jace the Mind Sculptor then it could possibly be quite successful.
-potential slippery slope? Once something like this has been done it opens up the question "why can't we allow other things to become commanders?" for example people may ask for double sided cards with a legendary on the back to bypass the rule, for example elbrus, the binding blade or dark depths
or cards like genju or the legendary vehicle? There are limitations but I do like the idea of pws as a commander... Just some will be problematic and sadly the biggest offenders would also be multicolored. Meaning most decks would end up mono blue or mono green. (jace or access to doubling season)
Gideon 1.0 would be by far the most balanced of the gang, except maybe ajani. Elspeth would be an issue. Sorin. Tezz. We may get 79 new commanders. But half will be gone due to power level. Over time with proper testing they will slowly be unbanned. (Or none will be banned when the rules comitee says "but you can get a llanowar eleves and birds of paradise with tooth and nail... Not broken"
As for Elbrus. It should be legal. Since it can only be played in a black deck. Eve. Though Elbrus is not black the back side is banning it from. Non black decks. So that means that the flip side matters so it is a legal commander in my books (and if not then Elbrus should be playable in any deck.)
One possibility I feel Wizards might eventually experiment with (maybe even with the upcoming Commander product in order to enable the Nephalhim) is 'commander emblems' that you can start the game with in your command zone that simply say "X can be your commander".
In that way it becomes less of an issue because we are essentially looking at a whitelist of non-legendary creatures that can be commanders. It could obviously start with the four Nephalhim, and then have extra versions released through some promo program or something that enable cards like chromanticore and possibly a Planeswalker or two.
If they're reserved about it and don't go printing something stupid like emblems for Arcbound Ravager or Jace the Mind Sculptor then it could possibly be quite successful.
Still, how Jace would be broken or oppressive? out of all PW, only few would be problematic, mainly G or G/x.
People are forgetting the fact that they can be attacked, damage into player can be redirected to them and they (most of them) cannot attack. That is already so many cons that they could be fine generals.
We already have random planeswalkers allowed based on either being released as commanders or the random technicality of starting as creatures. With that in mind it seems silly to restrict them just because they're planeswalkers.
If PW got too oppressive, in addition to bans on the worst offenders and enablers god knows theres enough answers for them, especially in red. Heaven forbid that colour have some utility in the format though
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I've seen similar complaints before and I'll use the same response - I don't feel that spot removal should be the be all end all of non-counterspell interaction in this format.
Woe betide the control players can't deal with everything at instant speed with held up mana - if to interact with the PW you need to attack it or some such, thats fine by me.
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No. This is what house rules are for, just like if you want to run the Nephilim or Genju. If this becomes legal too many PWs will get banned or be oppressive. We don't need more fuel for the 'ban list is inconsistent/bad/wrong' that the removal of Banned as Commander caused.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
People are forgetting the fact that they can be attacked, damage into player can be redirected to them and they (most of them) cannot attack. That is already so many cons that they could be fine generals.
Unless you can get creatures through to deal damage to the planeswalker it doesn't matter that you can attack them. Creature damage is not a very reliable way of dealing with a planeswalker, and direct damage is really only viable in red and black...green gets trample and Hurricane type effects I guess. Blue has some sub par direct damage...does white have any? I can't think of any off the top of my head for white.
I would be a lot more into this idea if there were spells and abilities that targeted the emblems I think. In my experience, planeswalker ultimates tend to have game ending effects a lot of the time so having cards that could get rid of or interact with emblems would be nice. It would also be nice to get some color appropriate ways of dealing with planeswalkers and emblems...a sacrificial black effect that would affect planeswalkers, or a blue spell that could steal an emblem, for example. Heck, these types of cards could even be featured in commander product so they wouldn't impact planeswalker cards in other formats, if that's a worry.
Admittedly, most players who land a planeswalker on the board are immediately targeted by everyone else so they tend not to last too long. I guess I can't see that changing, whether they are in the command zone or not.
Of course I also think that there are a lot more broken cards that should be ruled on as well that are not planeswalkers so, yeah...that's a valid argument as well.
I think using PW's as a commander could work, but it would need ti be a separate variant with it's own banlist. I tried to find the link to the article where wizards explained this but I could not find it, anyway: Planeswalkers designed for commander follow different design rules. Basically, their ablities add a little more loyalty counters and they start higher because of the bigger numbers in commander. Also, their abilities are designed not to be overpowering in a commander game, like some of the normal pw's are (examples enough in this thread already).
I do hope we get more PW's that are designed to be used as a commander though, I really liked the concept. Especially if they make a PW that can change into a creature like Gideon can, so you can have a PW that can actually win through commander damage.
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I will say that I think allowing PW as Commanders is an awful idea because they aren't balanced for it. There are so many Walkers that Ult the minute they hit the field with Doubling Season that it would just be broken to repeatedly Ult certain Walkers. Take the new Tamiyo, Field Researcher for example. While I realize that there are a lot of crazy broken combos in EDH, having a 4 mana strictly better Omniscience in the Command Zone seems like one of the most broke. Without any sort of mana shenanigans you are talking about casting literally your entire library on turn 5...
I just think that allowing any 'Walker to be a Commander is an terrible awful idea that should never be brought up again. I am totally against it in every way. Even the 'Walkers they printed for the precons aren't properly balance. Teferri is awful and Ob Nixilis is nearly broken. They couldn't even get that right. Now you have WotC having to consider the implications of PW as Commanders when designing new sets? That may sound great for Commander but what does that do to Standard or Modern? Its already hard enough for a 'Walker to impact Modern. If you balance it for Commander there is no way it would see play in Modern.
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What has Commander gotta do with Modern or Standard? I think you're not discussing this fairly here.
And LOL another argument that starts with Doubling Season. If DS was a colorless enchantment, I think you may have some ground. But it's green.
Look, this is just a preliminary discussion, and is open for debate. Closing oneself of ideas means boundaries wouldn't be pushed.
If we didn't push boundaries, we may not get things like Vehicles and Energy and Monarch today.
Planeswalkers are the focal point today, as correctly pointed out by the OP. Even the Magic Story lore has been warp around them, aka the Gatewatch. Again, if you don't like them, you don't have to play them. But don't shut out the idea.
Because this idea is already in black and white with our original 5. It's very feasible, and it's not over-the-top ridiculous that you dismiss it totally.
Emblems being uninterative (due to not being able to remove them?) Oh please. We have Poison Counters, Experience Counters. And now Energy.
I would say look at things with an open mind. Especially with modern magic these days. Anything can happen. Double faced cards. Legends-to-walkers double faced cards.
It's call evolution, folks. Be ready to embrace changes, or you be left behind. The essence is still Magic. It's still Commander. Look outside the box.
They are fine if the start as creatures since you have ample time to interact with them before they become PWs. The commander PWs were a mistake already.
Broken because doesn't die to removal. Even if dies to removal.
I didn't say that. The point is the only way to stop an opponent from gaining any value from a PW commander is to counter them. If the PW resolves the active player still has priority and can immediately use an ability before you get the chance to interact with the PW again.
So a Legendary creature with an ETB ability is a problem? It would also gain value before dying to removal.
We need hundreds more commanders.
Saying the raw number doesn't mean we have a good usable number.
Hundreds and hundreds of legends are just totally useless.
I have already grown completely bored with EDH because no general in existence interests me anymore. The format is dead to me because of this.
I also just don't understand people making a power level argument.
In super strong metas, it doesn't matter because everything is already broken. There is no way walkers are more broken than what's already legal.
In more fair metas they are a political weakness, everyone loves attacking planeswalkers because it's almost free from a politics standpoint. On top of their effects just not really being all that strong for the mana you pay. Their power comes from being able to activate them multiple times, and your opponents get many more combat phases to attack it than a normal 1v1 game.
May I have your EDH cards, please?
That's small potatoes compared to what you can do with multicoloured Planeswalkers.
Kiora, Master of the Depths becomes "You get an emblem with "Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control, you may have it fight target creature." Then create six 8/8 blue Octopus creature tokens." for 2GU.
Sarkhan Vol becomes "Create ten 4/4 red Dragon creature tokens with flying." for 2RG.
Vraska the Unseen becomes "Create six 1/1 black Assassin creature tokens with "Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, that player loses the game."" for 3BG.
Heck, I already run Doubling Season in my Damia, Sage of Stone deck, and it's backbreaking when I get to resolve even one Planeswalker ultimate right out of the gate. Having that kind of power sitting in your command zone... well, I think they'd have to strike Doubling Season from the format.
You can already run enough walkers to make this happen very consistently anyways
There are more powerful legends you can resolve anyways that are less conditional, like zur, narset, leovold, prossh, sidisi
On the flip side, you have to ask yourself this: "Okay, so they don't just auto win like the other infamous combos, but would it make the game unfun?" In non-competitive metas someone utilizing PWs over and over, getting one or two ults because of Doubling Season, will get loud groans from the table. They may not win automatically, but they'll generate so much advantage that their opponents will see it as an uphill battle that just may not be worth fighting.
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The real issue I see is not so much the combo-potential involving the planeswalkers, but how much better are they as a "toolbox" option compared to Legendary Creatures. Arcum Dagsson probably combos better (by speed), but Tezzeret the Seeker is a lot more versatile. It's a fine line of deciding which ones are "way too versatile" and as a result, centralize the choices around themselves instead when they are a Commander.
Then we get to the non-existent "Banned as Commander List". Without reverting changes, adding planeswalkers also means we'll most likely lose the use of a handful of planeswalkers for use in the format. Imagine Ugin, the Spirit Dragon not being usable simply because it was deemed too powerful as a Commander (please don't debate specifics, this is just a random example, I'm not doing the brainwork for a banlist of a hypothetical scenario).
Get a grip people. There's so many two-card combos not involving a walker yet people talk as if those existing combos were put under a rug.
The OP is making a good premise and idea here. Whether it's viable it's up for debate but don't no one should discuss/dismiss things without an objective view.
Most are just looking at a few obvious examples without looking at the bigger picture. And thus making some very obtuse comments. Walkers like Liliana (whichever version), Chandra (same) or even Jace are fine in a multiplayer setting.
Any veteran can tell you that most walkers are really not better off than creatures. They're extremely vulnerable to attacks; creatures can't be attacked (by the rules of the game). Most aren't very influential to a boardstate. It's very unlikely you see a walker surviving a few rounds without having some initial defense setup.
I'd be more likely to accept a counterargument if someone said walkers aren't doing as much as their creature counterparts, than just "Hur hur, Doubling Season, hur hur".
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
I hardly consider a planeswalkers ultimate when considering this topic, but many walkers can be pretty oppressive in 1v1 environments with just their +/- abilities.
If braids, cabal minion is banned as a commander, then why would development allow liliana of the veil to be legal? How taxing would tamiyo, the moon sage be to keep an opponents resources tapped down, or ajani vengeant in a targeted stone rain sort of deck?
The ultimate may not matter if the walkers earlier abilities can lock down a game.
edit; Per this topic, I really hate the idea of using a non-legendary for a commander. It feels like it is breaking the original conceptual design of the format.
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I'd even be up for the idea of Wizards introducing a rule that "when a PW's loyalty reaches 0, exiled this permanent from game."
....but like I said....just my opinion...
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Plus green PWs have access to doubling season.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Gideon 1.0 would be by far the most balanced of the gang, except maybe ajani. Elspeth would be an issue. Sorin. Tezz. We may get 79 new commanders. But half will be gone due to power level. Over time with proper testing they will slowly be unbanned. (Or none will be banned when the rules comitee says "but you can get a llanowar eleves and birds of paradise with tooth and nail... Not broken"
As for Elbrus. It should be legal. Since it can only be played in a black deck. Eve. Though Elbrus is not black the back side is banning it from. Non black decks. So that means that the flip side matters so it is a legal commander in my books (and if not then Elbrus should be playable in any deck.)
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
I agree with this. I've been playing this format for 5 years and PWs are rarely big play. There are some exceptions but they aren't very threatening in any zone.
Most people are against the idea because theyre scared of change.
GWUBAtraxa, Praetor's Voice PrimerGWUB
GWURoon Bant Blink WhateverGWU
BRGLord Windgrace LandsBRG
One possibility I feel Wizards might eventually experiment with (maybe even with the upcoming Commander product in order to enable the Nephalhim) is 'commander emblems' that you can start the game with in your command zone that simply say "X can be your commander".
In that way it becomes less of an issue because we are essentially looking at a whitelist of non-legendary creatures that can be commanders. It could obviously start with the four Nephalhim, and then have extra versions released through some promo program or something that enable cards like chromanticore and possibly a Planeswalker or two.
If they're reserved about it and don't go printing something stupid like emblems for Arcbound Ravager or Jace the Mind Sculptor then it could possibly be quite successful.
Still, how Jace would be broken or oppressive? out of all PW, only few would be problematic, mainly G or G/x.
People are forgetting the fact that they can be attacked, damage into player can be redirected to them and they (most of them) cannot attack. That is already so many cons that they could be fine generals.
If PW got too oppressive, in addition to bans on the worst offenders and enablers god knows theres enough answers for them, especially in red. Heaven forbid that colour have some utility in the format though
RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck
RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
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Anything I can cram Chaos Wand in to
Woe betide the control players can't deal with everything at instant speed with held up mana - if to interact with the PW you need to attack it or some such, thats fine by me.
RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck
RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
Arena Standard
UUUU Tempo, since before it was cool
Various Wx decks running Fountain of Renewal and Day of Glory
Anything I can cram Chaos Wand in to
Unless you can get creatures through to deal damage to the planeswalker it doesn't matter that you can attack them. Creature damage is not a very reliable way of dealing with a planeswalker, and direct damage is really only viable in red and black...green gets trample and Hurricane type effects I guess. Blue has some sub par direct damage...does white have any? I can't think of any off the top of my head for white.
I would be a lot more into this idea if there were spells and abilities that targeted the emblems I think. In my experience, planeswalker ultimates tend to have game ending effects a lot of the time so having cards that could get rid of or interact with emblems would be nice. It would also be nice to get some color appropriate ways of dealing with planeswalkers and emblems...a sacrificial black effect that would affect planeswalkers, or a blue spell that could steal an emblem, for example. Heck, these types of cards could even be featured in commander product so they wouldn't impact planeswalker cards in other formats, if that's a worry.
Admittedly, most players who land a planeswalker on the board are immediately targeted by everyone else so they tend not to last too long. I guess I can't see that changing, whether they are in the command zone or not.
Of course I also think that there are a lot more broken cards that should be ruled on as well that are not planeswalkers so, yeah...that's a valid argument as well.
I do hope we get more PW's that are designed to be used as a commander though, I really liked the concept. Especially if they make a PW that can change into a creature like Gideon can, so you can have a PW that can actually win through commander damage.
If my post has no tags, then i posted from my phone.
I will say that I think allowing PW as Commanders is an awful idea because they aren't balanced for it. There are so many Walkers that Ult the minute they hit the field with Doubling Season that it would just be broken to repeatedly Ult certain Walkers. Take the new Tamiyo, Field Researcher for example. While I realize that there are a lot of crazy broken combos in EDH, having a 4 mana strictly better Omniscience in the Command Zone seems like one of the most broke. Without any sort of mana shenanigans you are talking about casting literally your entire library on turn 5...
I just think that allowing any 'Walker to be a Commander is an terrible awful idea that should never be brought up again. I am totally against it in every way. Even the 'Walkers they printed for the precons aren't properly balance. Teferri is awful and Ob Nixilis is nearly broken. They couldn't even get that right. Now you have WotC having to consider the implications of PW as Commanders when designing new sets? That may sound great for Commander but what does that do to Standard or Modern? Its already hard enough for a 'Walker to impact Modern. If you balance it for Commander there is no way it would see play in Modern.
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
And LOL another argument that starts with Doubling Season. If DS was a colorless enchantment, I think you may have some ground. But it's green.
Look, this is just a preliminary discussion, and is open for debate. Closing oneself of ideas means boundaries wouldn't be pushed.
If we didn't push boundaries, we may not get things like Vehicles and Energy and Monarch today.
Planeswalkers are the focal point today, as correctly pointed out by the OP. Even the Magic Story lore has been warp around them, aka the Gatewatch. Again, if you don't like them, you don't have to play them. But don't shut out the idea.
Because this idea is already in black and white with our original 5. It's very feasible, and it's not over-the-top ridiculous that you dismiss it totally.
Emblems being uninterative (due to not being able to remove them?) Oh please. We have Poison Counters, Experience Counters. And now Energy.
I would say look at things with an open mind. Especially with modern magic these days. Anything can happen. Double faced cards. Legends-to-walkers double faced cards.
It's call evolution, folks. Be ready to embrace changes, or you be left behind. The essence is still Magic. It's still Commander. Look outside the box.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
So the monoblue player includes Clever Impersonator. It might not copy Doubling Season every game, but that's icing on the cake.