How about this, Every card is good in the right deck. This includes formats. EDH is known for being the most versatile of them all since dinky little cards that have a pretty bad thing, take Kobolds of Kher Keep, can be used as something to break a deck.
It's not quite as cut and dry as you suggest, some cards require tons of work, and everything around them to be right for them to shine.
As for these, they are all really good. The green one gets a lot of flak, but, I've been using it in both Surrak, the Hunt Caller, it's been great there. I plan on using it in Glissa, the traitor, and have already inserted it into my WIP Kresh, the bloodbraid.
These obviously aren't the Titans, but they all create immense value in terms of ETB and recurring. Are there better cards? Yeah, but they are right there with a few of them, but there is also much, much worse, and these should be budget friendly enough to add some oomph to budget players.
It was the first card I could think of that had a very low power opportunity.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
#TeamChimneyImpForMythic
I am trying to get better at making decks. I have had trouble creating more competitive decks as I only really build with the cards I have. I dont have that many value cards, in function or expense. I (almost) never play at FNM type events so its not like im playing against $2k decks. If I do usally play at one, Its a draft or limited game. Any advice on building decks is greatly supported! DMs are appreciated.
Thank you!
To put it more simply, it's like saying, "I can prove Jesus is real and loves you. See? Here's my Hispanic friend Jesus. He's had a crush on you for a long time. Tell em' Jesus."
Here's a joke! Whats the internal temperature of a Taun-Taun?
Some more thoughts on combustible. 4 player game, an opponent casts targeting me and I probably am at the lowest life total. Why should I take X while the other two players are sitting pretty? I'd almost rather let him draw 3, at least I'm not the one guy getting shafted and we're all in the same boat.
To everyone saying Noxious is bad because Duplicant exists...
Why not both?
Secondly, there are times where you want to kill something important that doesn't have a huge body or is a commander. If Duplicant nukes a commander, you get a vanilla 2/4 for 6. If Noxious nukes a commander, you get life and a 6/6 body with menace. If Duplicant kills off that Kami of the Crescent Moon that the wheel deck was using to make things miserable, you get a vanilla 2/2, Noxious you get a 6/6 menace body and 2 life.
Duplicant IS better under an Iona lock, but if you're in a format in which an early Iona is a problem, neither Duplicant nor Noxious Gearhulk are going to help.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Noxious destroys and is black. Duplicant exiles and is colorless. If I'm stapling a kill spell onto a 6 cmc critter, it has to be an elite effect. I want to kill Animar or something wielding half of the Swords.
Noxious destroys and is black. Duplicant exiles and is colorless. If I'm stapling a kill spell onto a 6 cmc critter, it has to be an elite effect. I want to kill Animar or something wielding half of the Swords.
And that works for your meta. In mine, I like the flexibility of getting a better body when I kill commanders or important support pieces.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Listen, if your looking at Duplicant vs. Noxious Gearhulk strictly from a removal persepctive, then yeah, you go with Dup. However, Duplicant is basically just a 6 mana Strictly-Worse Utter End, what's a 2/4 body? I've rarely used Duplicant on anything other than commanders, so that's what I'm usually left with. I'll take the more menacing(haha, get it) body and the incidental life-gain. However, if I'm running removal in creature form, I see no reason why both wouldn't be in my deck.
To everyone saying Noxious is bad because Duplicant exists...
Why not both?
Secondly, there are times where you want to kill something important that doesn't have a huge body or is a commander. If Duplicant nukes a commander, you get a vanilla 2/4 for 6. If Noxious nukes a commander, you get life and a 6/6 body with menace. If Duplicant kills off that Kami of the Crescent Moon that the wheel deck was using to make things miserable, you get a vanilla 2/2, Noxious you get a 6/6 menace body and 2 life.
Duplicant IS better under an Iona lock, but if you're in a format in which an early Iona is a problem, neither Duplicant nor Noxious Gearhulk are going to help.
Where are you getting your p/t's from? Noxious is a 5/4. Duplicant gains the p/t of the creature it exiles, unless its a commander. Noxious is better at offing utility creatures, commanders, and creatures with lots of counters, and Duplicant is better when you get rid of something large, or when you need to dodge protection indestructible and regenerate, or when your opponent can just bring it back from the yard.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
To everyone saying Noxious is bad because Duplicant exists...
Why not both?
Secondly, there are times where you want to kill something important that doesn't have a huge body or is a commander. If Duplicant nukes a commander, you get a vanilla 2/4 for 6. If Noxious nukes a commander, you get life and a 6/6 body with menace. If Duplicant kills off that Kami of the Crescent Moon that the wheel deck was using to make things miserable, you get a vanilla 2/2, Noxious you get a 6/6 menace body and 2 life.
Duplicant IS better under an Iona lock, but if you're in a format in which an early Iona is a problem, neither Duplicant nor Noxious Gearhulk are going to help.
Where are you getting your p/t's from? Noxious is a 5/4. Duplicant gains the p/t of the creature it exiles, unless its a commander. Noxious is better at offing utility creatures, commanders, and creatures with lots of counters, and Duplicant is better when you get rid of something large, or when you need to dodge protection indestructible and regenerate, or when your opponent can just bring it back from the yard.
Sorry, forgot it didn't have Titan P/T.
But the point remains, if you hit Kami of the Crescent Moon with Noxious Gearhulk, you get 3 life and a 5/4 body with Menace. Hit it with Duplicant, are you're left with a vanilla 1/3.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
the green hulk is the jugan of the cycle, and is pretty much rubbish for what you pay for it.
the black one is ok, but there are better cards that have a similar effect (duplicant exiles, gets around indestructibles)
the blue and red are kinda on par for me, but the blue is slightly rubbishier, 'cuz instants generally are that because it requires a specific condition to be met for it to be the most effective, and holding up 4UU to counter a spell or something isn't all that great for me. theres a reason i dont think overwhelming intellect or counterlash are that great as counters.
the red gives me card drawing/big damage potential. both sides of that coin are good, imo. sure its risky, but thats what playing a messy game like edh is like. by the way, does the opponent choose as this effect enter the stack or is the choice made upon resolution? if it is made as it enters the stack, then couldn't you scroll rack in response?
the white is the best, 'cuz cataclysm is awesome. it doesn't hit lands, so thats a major downside to it, but then again, we can't all have the awesomeness that is cataclysm.
All gearhulks will see play until the next cycle comes about. They are all unique in their respects. But they'll never trump the cycle of Titans and Souls on a whole. Repeatability is key here.
That said, because they're judged by the impact they ETB, W > U > G > B > R for me.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Whoa, someone likes the Souls? I figured all of these Ghulks would be more popular. I don't know anyone who runs the colored Souls.
Soul of Theros is solid enough. It regularly makes the pile of potential cards for my lists, then gets cut as I try and drop the curve. I've run Soul of Shandalar as a late game mana sink a couple times too. I wouldn't call them EDH gold, but they're playable enough.
Voted W>B>U>R>G. Cataclysmic Gearhulk has the potential to remove a lot of stuff, even if it's unlikely to ever hit what you most want to remove. I think Noxious Gearhulk is getting a little bit of a bad rap from the Duplicant comparisons. It's definitely not unheard of for black decks to want to destroy rather than exile thanks to reanimation and unconditional destruction on ETB isn't actually all that common. Overseer of the Damned is the only other one out there, even if the restriction on something like Shadowborn Demon is pretty minor. Torrential Gearhulk not getting sorceries hurts it in my eyes, despite it being a powerful card. Combustible Gearhulk just doesn't do much for me. I can see where it has niche applications, but I hate having a high curve and everyone I play with knows it. It's never going to draw me cards and that's a big strike against it. Verdurous Gearhulk is probably more likely to make it into my lists, despite my feelings that it's overall worse in the format. Being able to distribute the counters gives it more utility than just being a big creature and I've had a few decks that would have liked that effect.
I haven't picked any of these up yet, but I almost certainly will at some point in the future. They mostly seem like niche cards, which is a nice change of pace from some of the fatty designs in recent years.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I feel the blue gearhulk is a little overrated when Snapcaster Mage exists. What you lose in size and casting the spell for free is being able to get sorceries, and most of the time costing the same or less. I'm not saying it's bad, but I feel it's a similar situation as the black gearhulk vs Duplicant.
One thing to note, the black gearhulk can target tokens while the duplicant cannot.
How about this, Every card is good in the right deck. This includes formats. EDH is known for being the most versatile of them all since dinky little cards that have a pretty bad thing, take Kobolds of Kher Keep, can be used as something to break a deck.
Hell, I used to have a Legacy deck with 4x Kobolds of Kher Keep, 4x Crimson Kobolds, 4x Crooshank Kobolds, 4x Ornithopter, 4x Memnite, 4x Phyrexian Walker, 4x Glimpse of Nature. Plus Curio. Usually killed with Grapeshot, occasionally killed with Sarkhan Vol+Garruk Wildspeaker looping w/Curio. Most games went off T3-5, occasionally went off T2.
It pretty much scooped to Chalice of the Void, though.
How about this, Every card is good in the right deck. This includes formats. EDH is known for being the most versatile of them all since dinky little cards that have a pretty bad thing, take Kobolds of Kher Keep, can be used as something to break a deck.
Hell, I used to have a Legacy deck with 4x Kobolds of Kher Keep, 4x Crimson Kobolds, 4x Crooshank Kobolds, 4x Ornithopter, 4x Memnite, 4x Phyrexian Walker, 4x Glimpse of Nature. Plus Curio. Usually killed with Grapeshot, occasionally killed with Sarkhan Vol+Garruk Wildspeaker looping w/Curio. Most games went off T3-5, occasionally went off T2.
It pretty much scooped to Chalice of the Void, though.
Cheeri0s? Yeah, I have the deck. I bring Crash out of the sideboard, and use 4x Elvish Spirit Guide, 4x Simian Spirit Guide, and 4x Land Grant to find my 1 Stomping Ground (no, I do not have the G/R Unlimited dual).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I feel the blue gearhulk is a little overrated when Snapcaster Mage exists. What you lose in size and casting the spell for free is being able to get sorceries, and most of the time costing the same or less. I'm not saying it's bad, but I feel it's a similar situation as the black gearhulk vs Duplicant. One thing to note, the black gearhulk can target tokens while the duplicant cannot.
I have to say, I've had this bite me on more occasions than I can count on my extremities. It doesn't make it bad, but dang, it definetly has some drawbacks that at the very least put it on par with the the Gearhulk, I'd still rank the Gearhulk ahead tho. It dodges both Doomblade and Go for the Thorat.
To everyone saying Noxious is bad because Duplicant exists...
Why not both?
Secondly, there are times where you want to kill something important that doesn't have a huge body or is a commander. If Duplicant nukes a commander, you get a vanilla 2/4 for 6. If Noxious nukes a commander, you get life and a 6/6 body with menace. If Duplicant kills off that Kami of the Crescent Moon that the wheel deck was using to make things miserable, you get a vanilla 2/2, Noxious you get a 6/6 menace body and 2 life.
Duplicant IS better under an Iona lock, but if you're in a format in which an early Iona is a problem, neither Duplicant nor Noxious Gearhulk are going to help.
Where are you getting your p/t's from? Noxious is a 5/4. Duplicant gains the p/t of the creature it exiles, unless its a commander. Noxious is better at offing utility creatures, commanders, and creatures with lots of counters, and Duplicant is better when you get rid of something large, or when you need to dodge protection indestructible and regenerate, or when your opponent can just bring it back from the yard.
Sorry, forgot it didn't have Titan P/T.
But the point remains, if you hit Kami of the Crescent Moon with Noxious Gearhulk, you get 3 life and a 5/4 body with Menace. Hit it with Duplicant, are you're left with a vanilla 1/3.
OK. Of course, if your going to pick specific examples, hit Ulamog with Dup and you have a 10/10, hit it with Noxious and you get a 5/4 with menace, no life, and don't remove Ulamog.
The real point is they are each better against different things, and Dup answers more threats, more permanently (which is why you are running these cards in the first place), so Dup is better for most decks (lifegain decks aside). The question is whether you want another similar effect at 6, and for a lot of black decks the answer is yes, though for 1 mana more Overseer of the Damned is better
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
To everyone saying Noxious is bad because Duplicant exists...
Why not both?
Secondly, there are times where you want to kill something important that doesn't have a huge body or is a commander. If Duplicant nukes a commander, you get a vanilla 2/4 for 6. If Noxious nukes a commander, you get life and a 6/6 body with menace. If Duplicant kills off that Kami of the Crescent Moon that the wheel deck was using to make things miserable, you get a vanilla 2/2, Noxious you get a 6/6 menace body and 2 life.
Duplicant IS better under an Iona lock, but if you're in a format in which an early Iona is a problem, neither Duplicant nor Noxious Gearhulk are going to help.
Where are you getting your p/t's from? Noxious is a 5/4. Duplicant gains the p/t of the creature it exiles, unless its a commander. Noxious is better at offing utility creatures, commanders, and creatures with lots of counters, and Duplicant is better when you get rid of something large, or when you need to dodge protection indestructible and regenerate, or when your opponent can just bring it back from the yard.
Sorry, forgot it didn't have Titan P/T.
But the point remains, if you hit Kami of the Crescent Moon with Noxious Gearhulk, you get 3 life and a 5/4 body with Menace. Hit it with Duplicant, are you're left with a vanilla 1/3.
OK. Of course, if your going to pick specific examples, hit Ulamog with Dup and you have a 10/10, hit it with Noxious and you get a 5/4 with menace, no life, and don't remove Ulamog.
The real point is they are each better against different things, and Dup answers more threats, more permanently (which is why you are running these cards in the first place), so Dup is better for most decks (lifegain decks aside). The question is whether you want another similar effect at 6, and for a lot of black decks the answer is yes, though for 1 mana more Overseer of the Damned is better
Yes... and if you Damnation a board where you have 11 creatures, and they have an Ulamog, then you have an empty board and they have an Ulamog. That would be a horrible play. So would using Noxious Gearhulk against an Ulamog. My point is that they are ideal removing different things. Duplicant is better getting rid of big bodies or indestructible creatures. Noxious is better at getting rid of small bodies and utility creatures. And for one mana less, you get the same power and similar evasion to Overseer.
Why not run both in a list?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
Because CMC 6 is a tight spot with a lot of really good cards, and you can't just play 20 6-drops and have a good deck.
This. Also, overseer is a lot more powerful than the ghulk for that extra mana. Flying is better than menace, less vulnerable, and creating tokens is better than life gain, especially since it keeps dropping zombies whenever an opponent's creature it.Outsid outside of decks that care about artifacts or life gain, it's the better choice. Of course, all three are good enough that they each have decks where they will be the best, and the occasional deck will run all three. In a vacuum, the ghulk is in 3rd place.
The fact that we are even getting this deep into comparisons shows it should be at the bottom with v hulk when it comes to impact on the format, because at best it's an on theme replacement for a preexisting card in certain decks, a redundant effect, or a meta call. There will be decks that want the effect at that cost and don't run it due to having better options for the same general effect at that cost. I can't say that for any of the others save for v hulk.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Meaning of Life: "M-hmm. Well, it's nothing very special. Uh, try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations"
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
I, personally, went R>B>W>U>G - but this is completely contingent on my play-style, and maybe not on how effective the cards will actually be. Combustible Gearhulk is going in Kiki-Jiki immediately and Noxious Gearhulk is going in Chainer immediately (I think I'll even spring for the Masterpiece version for this one!). I don't have a deck to run the other three at the moment, and they just don't look as fun to me. But, like I said, that's just an opinion.
Because CMC 6 is a tight spot with a lot of really good cards, and you can't just play 20 6-drops and have a good deck.
This. Also, overseer is a lot more powerful than the ghulk for that extra mana. Flying is better than menace, less vulnerable, and creating tokens is better than life gain, especially since it keeps dropping zombies whenever an opponent's creature it.Outsid outside of decks that care about artifacts or life gain, it's the better choice. Of course, all three are good enough that they each have decks where they will be the best, and the occasional deck will run all three. In a vacuum, the ghulk is in 3rd place.
The fact that we are even getting this deep into comparisons shows it should be at the bottom with v hulk when it comes to impact on the format, because at best it's an on theme replacement for a preexisting card in certain decks, a redundant effect, or a meta call. There will be decks that want the effect at that cost and don't run it due to having better options for the same general effect at that cost. I can't say that for any of the others save for v hulk.
Well, if that's the case, no list should ever have Duplicant, Overseer, or Noxious in their list. You should be running a deck of 42 counterspells, Azami as commander, and Mind Over Matter as a wincon. Duplicant is crap in that deck. So is gearhulk. Or tuned Turn 2 Hermit Druid. Or tuned Turn 3 Ad Nauseum. Or tuned Turn 3 Doomsday.
In a vacuum, why would I spent one more mana on a similar level of evasion, same power, and an effect that relies on me removing more non-token creatures? If Overseer's effect is constantly working, then your opponent has a board state that should be killing you.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
I really think people are underestimating how big a deal the second option being unknown at the time of choice is. Most punisher cards give the opponent nearly full information (barring outside effects you may be hiding), so they can know what option is best. This card gives them the choice of letting you draw three or taking X to the face, where X is a mystery until its too late. Could be 0, could be 20, and both are fairly reasonable in EDH. Again, this changes a bit too depending on whether we're talking 1v1 or multiplayer. Multiplayer adds a lot of meta options for swinging it to your favor if you want to draw 3, because you can target the guy with a precarious life total or the guy who is risk averse. If you know your playgroup, you can figure out who is more likely to take the gamble and when, and who is more likely to go with the known quantity and when. Cataclysmic is better, and the others are more reliably, but Combustible is the most "EDH" out of the bunch because its ceiling is so damn high and it benefits from the format. It will create swingy, unpredictable games while giving the player running it enough control and ability to abuse it to be worthwhile. Its the dumbest with Kiki and Conjurer's Closet, and mimic vat, and all the other silly stupid blink and copy effects. You best believe I'm running it in Dong Zhou.
Yeah, but outside of the white one, they're all hella stupid with Kiki and Closet. That said, you're probably right in that case. I still see it as second-worst just because of how good the others are.
How about this, Every card is good in the right deck. This includes formats. EDH is known for being the most versatile of them all since dinky little cards that have a pretty bad thing, take Kobolds of Kher Keep, can be used as something to break a deck.
I like calling cards like that "cogs". Little cards that have a huge effect in the right deck. Others include Young Wolf (Ghave), Ornithopter (any artifact deck, can also be nice in Doran), the lucky charms (Oloro), Shrieking Drake (Animar or any storm deck), Scavenging Ooze (as grave hate), Sprout Swarm (token or storm decks), Zuran Orb (Gitrog or Titania)...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Because exiling is significantly more valuable than any of the additional benefits the Gearhulk provides, and Duplicantbarely makes the cut in decks where the Commander provides repeatable recursion for it.
The only deck I would ever consider Noxious Gearhulk in, instead of Duplicant or in addition to it, would be Chainer, Dementia Master. There, the life gain becomes relevant enough to consider including the card.
It was the first card I could think of that had a very low power opportunity.
Thank you!
Why not both?
Secondly, there are times where you want to kill something important that doesn't have a huge body or is a commander. If Duplicant nukes a commander, you get a vanilla 2/4 for 6. If Noxious nukes a commander, you get life and a 6/6 body with menace. If Duplicant kills off that Kami of the Crescent Moon that the wheel deck was using to make things miserable, you get a vanilla 2/2, Noxious you get a 6/6 menace body and 2 life.
Duplicant IS better under an Iona lock, but if you're in a format in which an early Iona is a problem, neither Duplicant nor Noxious Gearhulk are going to help.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
And that works for your meta. In mine, I like the flexibility of getting a better body when I kill commanders or important support pieces.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Where are you getting your p/t's from? Noxious is a 5/4. Duplicant gains the p/t of the creature it exiles, unless its a commander. Noxious is better at offing utility creatures, commanders, and creatures with lots of counters, and Duplicant is better when you get rid of something large, or when you need to dodge protection indestructible and regenerate, or when your opponent can just bring it back from the yard.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Sorry, forgot it didn't have Titan P/T.
But the point remains, if you hit Kami of the Crescent Moon with Noxious Gearhulk, you get 3 life and a 5/4 body with Menace. Hit it with Duplicant, are you're left with a vanilla 1/3.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
W > R > U > B > G
the green hulk is the jugan of the cycle, and is pretty much rubbish for what you pay for it.
the black one is ok, but there are better cards that have a similar effect (duplicant exiles, gets around indestructibles)
the blue and red are kinda on par for me, but the blue is slightly rubbishier, 'cuz instants generally are that because it requires a specific condition to be met for it to be the most effective, and holding up 4UU to counter a spell or something isn't all that great for me. theres a reason i dont think overwhelming intellect or counterlash are that great as counters.
the red gives me card drawing/big damage potential. both sides of that coin are good, imo. sure its risky, but thats what playing a messy game like edh is like. by the way, does the opponent choose as this effect enter the stack or is the choice made upon resolution? if it is made as it enters the stack, then couldn't you scroll rack in response?
the white is the best, 'cuz cataclysm is awesome. it doesn't hit lands, so thats a major downside to it, but then again, we can't all have the awesomeness that is cataclysm.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
That said, because they're judged by the impact they ETB, W > U > G > B > R for me.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
I run Soul of Theros in a B/W Token swarm deck. Triggering the effect from the grave often creates a powerful swing out of nowhere.
Mind you, the deck is more budget than it used to be.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Voted W>B>U>R>G. Cataclysmic Gearhulk has the potential to remove a lot of stuff, even if it's unlikely to ever hit what you most want to remove. I think Noxious Gearhulk is getting a little bit of a bad rap from the Duplicant comparisons. It's definitely not unheard of for black decks to want to destroy rather than exile thanks to reanimation and unconditional destruction on ETB isn't actually all that common. Overseer of the Damned is the only other one out there, even if the restriction on something like Shadowborn Demon is pretty minor. Torrential Gearhulk not getting sorceries hurts it in my eyes, despite it being a powerful card. Combustible Gearhulk just doesn't do much for me. I can see where it has niche applications, but I hate having a high curve and everyone I play with knows it. It's never going to draw me cards and that's a big strike against it. Verdurous Gearhulk is probably more likely to make it into my lists, despite my feelings that it's overall worse in the format. Being able to distribute the counters gives it more utility than just being a big creature and I've had a few decks that would have liked that effect.
I haven't picked any of these up yet, but I almost certainly will at some point in the future. They mostly seem like niche cards, which is a nice change of pace from some of the fatty designs in recent years.
One thing to note, the black gearhulk can target tokens while the duplicant cannot.
It pretty much scooped to Chalice of the Void, though.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Cheeri0s? Yeah, I have the deck. I bring Crash out of the sideboard, and use 4x Elvish Spirit Guide, 4x Simian Spirit Guide, and 4x Land Grant to find my 1 Stomping Ground (no, I do not have the G/R Unlimited dual).
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
I have to say, I've had this bite me on more occasions than I can count on my extremities. It doesn't make it bad, but dang, it definetly has some drawbacks that at the very least put it on par with the the Gearhulk, I'd still rank the Gearhulk ahead tho. It dodges both Doomblade and Go for the Thorat.
OK. Of course, if your going to pick specific examples, hit Ulamog with Dup and you have a 10/10, hit it with Noxious and you get a 5/4 with menace, no life, and don't remove Ulamog.
The real point is they are each better against different things, and Dup answers more threats, more permanently (which is why you are running these cards in the first place), so Dup is better for most decks (lifegain decks aside). The question is whether you want another similar effect at 6, and for a lot of black decks the answer is yes, though for 1 mana more Overseer of the Damned is better
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Yes... and if you Damnation a board where you have 11 creatures, and they have an Ulamog, then you have an empty board and they have an Ulamog. That would be a horrible play. So would using Noxious Gearhulk against an Ulamog. My point is that they are ideal removing different things. Duplicant is better getting rid of big bodies or indestructible creatures. Noxious is better at getting rid of small bodies and utility creatures. And for one mana less, you get the same power and similar evasion to Overseer.
Why not run both in a list?
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
This. Also, overseer is a lot more powerful than the ghulk for that extra mana. Flying is better than menace, less vulnerable, and creating tokens is better than life gain, especially since it keeps dropping zombies whenever an opponent's creature it.Outsid outside of decks that care about artifacts or life gain, it's the better choice. Of course, all three are good enough that they each have decks where they will be the best, and the occasional deck will run all three. In a vacuum, the ghulk is in 3rd place.
The fact that we are even getting this deep into comparisons shows it should be at the bottom with v hulk when it comes to impact on the format, because at best it's an on theme replacement for a preexisting card in certain decks, a redundant effect, or a meta call. There will be decks that want the effect at that cost and don't run it due to having better options for the same general effect at that cost. I can't say that for any of the others save for v hulk.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
WU Bruna UW | R Kiki-Jiki R | RB New Chainer BR
Legacy - Burn | Pauper - Reanimator | Aristocrats | Burn
@votechainer2016
Well, if that's the case, no list should ever have Duplicant, Overseer, or Noxious in their list. You should be running a deck of 42 counterspells, Azami as commander, and Mind Over Matter as a wincon. Duplicant is crap in that deck. So is gearhulk. Or tuned Turn 2 Hermit Druid. Or tuned Turn 3 Ad Nauseum. Or tuned Turn 3 Doomsday.
In a vacuum, why would I spent one more mana on a similar level of evasion, same power, and an effect that relies on me removing more non-token creatures? If Overseer's effect is constantly working, then your opponent has a board state that should be killing you.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Yeah, but outside of the white one, they're all hella stupid with Kiki and Closet. That said, you're probably right in that case. I still see it as second-worst just because of how good the others are.
I like calling cards like that "cogs". Little cards that have a huge effect in the right deck. Others include Young Wolf (Ghave), Ornithopter (any artifact deck, can also be nice in Doran), the lucky charms (Oloro), Shrieking Drake (Animar or any storm deck), Scavenging Ooze (as grave hate), Sprout Swarm (token or storm decks), Zuran Orb (Gitrog or Titania)...
On phasing:
Because exiling is significantly more valuable than any of the additional benefits the Gearhulk provides, and Duplicant barely makes the cut in decks where the Commander provides repeatable recursion for it.
The only deck I would ever consider Noxious Gearhulk in, instead of Duplicant or in addition to it, would be Chainer, Dementia Master. There, the life gain becomes relevant enough to consider including the card.
A Dying Wish
To Rise Again
Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice