Now don't get me wrong I like Meren I really do. One of the only commanders from this last precons I like. Loved her story and her artwork and her power. I built the deck with her in quickly and had a blast with it now lately it's become very stale.
I am currently one of five Meren decks that play at my shop and well most of them all are the same. Meren provided such a clear way to make her that 80% of te cards in the overlap with all other Meren decks. I decided to stop playing her for a while and it's been a little over 3 months since the last time I played her and she just feels very lackluster. Since so many of the decks cards overlap with other Meren decks even when I don't play her I feel like I am when I face another one at the table.
So my question to you mtgsalvation goers is what other commanders can use the cards from a Meren deck to good use. What other commanders are G/B/x that care about things dying and coming back?
If you are trying to get to a different general, changing the way it plays might be a good way to change things up. If Meren is all about constant recursion, you can switch it up to still recur things, but make the individual cards more powerful (such as Ashen Rider I mentioned above).
What more are you looking to get out of changing generals?
The obvious answer is Karador, Ghost Chieftain. You have to put more resources into reusing your creatures, but the gameplan is very close. I might try something like Savra, Queen of the Golgari. You'll probably have to add some reanimation and possibly some sac outlets depending on how you built Meren, but you get the benefit of a semi-Grave Pact out of the command zone and she should play differently than Meren despite having some overlap in cards. Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper can give you a similar shift with a lot of overlap and adding red.
You can probably make use of a lot of the stuff regardless of which general you jump to. Meren encourages efficient creatures with immediate impact and GY play, which are pretty universal to EDH.
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Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord could work. instead of going whole ham on getting things back you could focus on just leaving some number of them to pump up Jarad. Could even do a semi-viltron thing. Honestly though, if Meren is stale I doubt its just because of who is at the helm. If/when you with commanders try and vary the deck strategy as well.
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Tbh simply switching from one overplayed general to another isn't going to help this problem. Of the generals suggested I reckon Anafenza is easily your best bet. But if your going to run with Meren, Karador or Jarad I feel you'll need to go out of your way to make your particular take on the deck feel unique.
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EDH RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
@WizardMN I think I will stay away from Karador. I am looking to find a general or generals that still have interaction with creatures dying and can use some of the cards from Meren (I dont want the cards to just sit around be wasted space).
@Weebo Sek'Kuar Deathkeeper I did not know/forgot completely that he existed and he looks to be a really good fit for where I would like to go. You have a great point a lot of Meren stuff does slot into/help build the foundation for other decks pretty easily.
@Pokken I don't want to push others away from a deck they like and Anafenza does not like my thing she has some great interactions and makes a great commander. If I was going to go Abzan I would probably go Teneb.
@herenorthere I will have to pass on Jarad someone else already runs in my play group and I already have a semi voltron green deck
@Moxnix very valid point. I feel that Ayli is different than Meren but a large amount of the black cards in Meren would slot/form a good base for Ayli.
@jsNZ Thats why I am trying to stay away from overplayed generals unless I have some cool new way to build them. So far Sek'Kuar look really interesting to me
Another option is Sidisi, Brood Tyrant, if you enjoy dredge. She opens up a zombie tribal angle but you can just have her to get access to U and get added value from dredging.
I'll give my vote to Tasigur, the Golden Fang.
Lots of value can go to that deck, you get to add blue and forcing enemies to make decisions is both very political and fun.
I'm not sure you should use all the same cards if your looking for a different feel.
This.
The Golgari combination tends to lead towards the same playstyle, attrition. Sac + recur = profit
You're looking for something different than Meren, but you still run a deck that cares about dying and getting them back.
So what you're saying contradicts each other. You'll end up with a different general, but with basicly the same deck.
If you are trying to use mostly the same cards, it's gonna be mostly the same deck and mostly the same feel. You will get bored with it again very quickly. My suggestion is try to trade the cards into a new deck archetype. If you want the same colors to keep some cards the same, maybe try Gitrog or Glissa for very different recursion stuff
Seconding kresh. There was a really memorable game out of my edh cube, where a player leveraged some great reanimation effects to pump kresh to massive sizes, and finally blew out the entire table saccing the now ~30/30 kresh to jarad. Seems like kresh would open up some interesting build and strategy options, while carrying over many of the great and versatile stuff from meren.
@Hawkleberryfin I will have to skip on Sidisi my wife has a pretty wicked zombie tribe built with her and I have this thing about over lapping commanders
@Kazehi I was very much leaning to Jund with the decks direction and my main Pics are either Prossh or mr Deathspeaker.
@NoNeedToBragoBoutIt I do like the BUG wedge but don't feel draw to any of their commanders but the Banana King does seam like he would make a great reanimation commander I will have to consider him.
@Narvuntien I am not a fan of Glissa at all sorry.
@slikwilly very much so all the ones from C15 are big offenders of this.
@Krimsonmask Kresh does seam like a very fun option more points for Jund
@OwnDemon Wow thank you man there are quite a few in there I was think of for sure in your list. I like Teneb and Prossh cause I mean who does not like big scary dragons? I am going to stay away from Karador as there are few of them already running around in my meta. I was leaning toward Kresh or Sek'Kuar I think Kresh might be better overall but I have never seen anyone run Sek'Kua and he seams very open ended.
@spike4972 I will have to pass on Glissa and get good toad as I am not a fan of Glissa at all and there are way to many toad decks running a muck in the meta as is (three of them currently that I know of)
@Dolono I am super open to Kresh his art is good he gets bigger of death but he feels a bit voltron like and I have one voltron deck right now. does he play well as one of the 99?
@all thank you everyone for all your advice and input on this really gave me a lot of options and some I had not ever considered. Sorry for the long reply time super busy at work lately. Right now I am very much looking at a Jund deck of some sort in a toss up of Prossh/Kresh/Sek'Kuar. Prossh is pretty clear to the power one of the three and weirdly no one that I play with has a Prossh deck. I think that Sek'Kuar builds into a sweet kind of death trigger deck for fun and Kresh looks like a good get huge thru death effects and hit people in the face for a ton of damage. I see a primer or two for Kresh and Prossh but nothing on Sek'Kuar anyone got any pointers on him?
Well both Krimson and myself own a primer on Kresh :P.
Kresh has very little to do with voltron actually. Sure he'll grow out of proportion and most of the kills will be with your general.
What I mean is, he's not comparable to Rafiq for example. He's a tool to be used, but he's not good enough to focus 100% on.
Well both Krimson and myself own a primer on Kresh :P.
Kresh has very little to do with voltron actually. Sure he'll grow out of proportion and most of the kills will be with your general.
What I mean is, he's not comparable to Rafiq for example. He's a tool to be used, but he's not good enough to focus 100% on.
What he said Kresh is always a threat to swing for 21 commander damage out of nowhere but he isn't a voltron general in the sense where your deck needs to be built around that strategy. He'll get big just from killing your opponents creatures or sacrificing your own for something like fling or greater good. There should be a lot of cards that will carry over well from Meren without feeling like the same deck. And yes, the art is sweet.
Note on Sek'Kuar: If you like engine decks, he's your guy. Mana producers -- Ashnod's Altar, Phyrexian Altar, etc. plus functional copies of him -- Whisperwood Elemental, Golgari germination plus reanimation -- Living Death especially with Eternal Witness... basically, it becomes really easy to get 30 minute turns that eventually end with everyone dead. Kind of Eggs-ish, actually. I recommend him. Plus, I find he's at least a bit less play-out-of-graveyard focussed than some other generals, though you can take him any direction.
Also, he's really good with board wipes. I highly recommend All is Dust -- not necessarily for that deck in particular, just a random plug for a favorite card.
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The Mimeoplasm is another option. Combine the creatures in your grave, or your opponents into a mega monster. Then throw in a Dread Summons if you wanna go crazy.
If you're looking for a more competitive deck, Kresh or Tasigur are great options, but I'd like to propose an often overlooked option - Pharika, God of Affliction. I know what you're thinking, but she does provide politics, player interaction, variance, and a graveyard focus. You could run dredge cards, Dread Summons, or just sit back and enjoy the carnage. You're an arms dealer with Pharika and Skullwinder, a giant sac engine with Viscera Seer and Skullclamp, and a token maker with Creakwood Liege and Worm Harvest. Recursion? Reap, Ill-Gotten Gains, Seasons Past. Politics? Pernicious Deed. Exile their threats and your unwnted weenies and Ill-Gotten Gains, Living Death, or Reanimate some fatties. Or just swarm them with tokens. Probably not what you're looking for, but it's an option. Cheers!
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I am currently one of five Meren decks that play at my shop and well most of them all are the same. Meren provided such a clear way to make her that 80% of te cards in the overlap with all other Meren decks. I decided to stop playing her for a while and it's been a little over 3 months since the last time I played her and she just feels very lackluster. Since so many of the decks cards overlap with other Meren decks even when I don't play her I feel like I am when I face another one at the table.
So my question to you mtgsalvation goers is what other commanders can use the cards from a Meren deck to good use. What other commanders are G/B/x that care about things dying and coming back?
If you are trying to get to a different general, changing the way it plays might be a good way to change things up. If Meren is all about constant recursion, you can switch it up to still recur things, but make the individual cards more powerful (such as Ashen Rider I mentioned above).
What more are you looking to get out of changing generals?
You can probably make use of a lot of the stuff regardless of which general you jump to. Meren encourages efficient creatures with immediate impact and GY play, which are pretty universal to EDH.
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
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RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck
RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
Arena Standard
UUUU Tempo, since before it was cool
Various Wx decks running Fountain of Renewal and Day of Glory
Anything I can cram Chaos Wand in to
@Weebo Sek'Kuar Deathkeeper I did not know/forgot completely that he existed and he looks to be a really good fit for where I would like to go. You have a great point a lot of Meren stuff does slot into/help build the foundation for other decks pretty easily.
@Pokken I don't want to push others away from a deck they like and Anafenza does not like my thing she has some great interactions and makes a great commander. If I was going to go Abzan I would probably go Teneb.
@herenorthere I will have to pass on Jarad someone else already runs in my play group and I already have a semi voltron green deck
@Moxnix very valid point. I feel that Ayli is different than Meren but a large amount of the black cards in Meren would slot/form a good base for Ayli.
@jsNZ Thats why I am trying to stay away from overplayed generals unless I have some cool new way to build them. So far Sek'Kuar look really interesting to me
Jund felt like a natural progression to break the boredom of Stax or control builds. Kresh the blood braided would be fun too.
Lots of value can go to that deck, you get to add blue and forcing enemies to make decisions is both very political and fun.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
This seems to be a problem that afflicts a great many legendary creatures lately
This.
The Golgari combination tends to lead towards the same playstyle, attrition. Sac + recur = profit
You're looking for something different than Meren, but you still run a deck that cares about dying and getting them back.
So what you're saying contradicts each other. You'll end up with a different general, but with basicly the same deck.
Karador is the closest to your current general.
But you might wanna look at
Sultai: Tasigur, the Golden Fang, The Mimeoplasm
Jund: Shattergang Brothers, Prossh, Skyraider of Kher, Kresh the Bloodbraided, Adun Oakenshield
Abzan: Teneb, the Harvester
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
Marath, Will of the Wild Tokens!! / Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Dragons! / Muzzio, Visionary Architect / Brago, King Eternal / Daretti, Scrap Savant / Narset, Enlightened Master / Alesha, Who Smiles at Death / Bruna, Light of Alabaster / Marchesa, the Black Rose / Iroas, God of Victory / Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury / Omnath, Locus of rage / Titania, Protector of Argoth / Kozilek, the Great Distortion
Modern
Elves / Titanshift / Merfolk
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@Kazehi I was very much leaning to Jund with the decks direction and my main Pics are either Prossh or mr Deathspeaker.
@NoNeedToBragoBoutIt I do like the BUG wedge but don't feel draw to any of their commanders but the Banana King does seam like he would make a great reanimation commander I will have to consider him.
@Narvuntien I am not a fan of Glissa at all sorry.
@slikwilly very much so all the ones from C15 are big offenders of this.
@Krimsonmask Kresh does seam like a very fun option more points for Jund
@OwnDemon Wow thank you man there are quite a few in there I was think of for sure in your list. I like Teneb and Prossh cause I mean who does not like big scary dragons? I am going to stay away from Karador as there are few of them already running around in my meta. I was leaning toward Kresh or Sek'Kuar I think Kresh might be better overall but I have never seen anyone run Sek'Kua and he seams very open ended.
@spike4972 I will have to pass on Glissa and get good toad as I am not a fan of Glissa at all and there are way to many toad decks running a muck in the meta as is (three of them currently that I know of)
@Dolono I am super open to Kresh his art is good he gets bigger of death but he feels a bit voltron like and I have one voltron deck right now. does he play well as one of the 99?
@all thank you everyone for all your advice and input on this really gave me a lot of options and some I had not ever considered. Sorry for the long reply time super busy at work lately. Right now I am very much looking at a Jund deck of some sort in a toss up of Prossh/Kresh/Sek'Kuar. Prossh is pretty clear to the power one of the three and weirdly no one that I play with has a Prossh deck. I think that Sek'Kuar builds into a sweet kind of death trigger deck for fun and Kresh looks like a good get huge thru death effects and hit people in the face for a ton of damage. I see a primer or two for Kresh and Prossh but nothing on Sek'Kuar anyone got any pointers on him?
Kresh has very little to do with voltron actually. Sure he'll grow out of proportion and most of the kills will be with your general.
What I mean is, he's not comparable to Rafiq for example. He's a tool to be used, but he's not good enough to focus 100% on.
1. Prossh is indeed the strongest out of the three, mainly because of the combo potential. You can build him with tokens.
2. Sek'Kuar will use stuff like Bloodghast, Nether Traitor, Reassembling Skeleton, Bloodsoaked Champion to trigger his ability.
Or build a Shadowborn Apostle deck. Lots of creatures, other things to abuse the tokens you create... Sadistic Hypnotist for example.
3. Kresh will use stuff like Fleshbag Marauder, Merciless Executioner, Slum Reaper, Lord of Extinction. Well just take a look at our primers ^^.
(4. Shattergang Brothers)
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
What he said Kresh is always a threat to swing for 21 commander damage out of nowhere but he isn't a voltron general in the sense where your deck needs to be built around that strategy. He'll get big just from killing your opponents creatures or sacrificing your own for something like fling or greater good. There should be a lot of cards that will carry over well from Meren without feeling like the same deck. And yes, the art is sweet.
Also, he's really good with board wipes. I highly recommend All is Dust -- not necessarily for that deck in particular, just a random plug for a favorite card.
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.