Hey all! I was looking at Thada Adel, and thinking how fun it would be to make a deck with a DnD theme. I was looking at making the party all legendary creatures with abilities that would mimic DnD abilities.
That leads me to three questions:
1) Who should the party consist of? Right now I am leaning towards having Ragnar as the commander, as he looks the part and can "heal" a character who has died. The two locks are:
Ertai, Wizard Adept - He definitely has the right attitude for a DnD wizard...
Kytheon - Fits the defensive fighter mold
Nissa (origins) - Elf Druid... There's not many elves that fit the DnD mold
Surrak Hunt caller - Human barbarian type
Tolsimir Wolf blood- Elf Ranger (yay animal companion!)
Who else?
2) Should I go Bant or full color? Dipping into red gets me Surrak Dragon claw, who is a prototypical barbarian. But there's no good 5 c rep for DnD, unless I go with Gen Tazri just for his colors.
3) Should the deck only have "good guy" stuff, or should I try to include enemies that look like prototypical DnD bad guys? (Tarrasque, Vampires, beholders, etc) If the latter, I would have to go five color.
Healers are actually wildly overrated in d&d. Off healing is all that is needed.
Whoa, whoa, whoa!
No way.
Or ... are you playing 5e? 4e?
Even 3e was a bit that way, too.
No, for the old-school curmudgeon, there is nothing like AD&D 2e, with its little-known rule "default to Breath Weapon save" and its Vancian spell system--which could be altered into a spell point system, according to Skills & Powers. (I highly recommend this.) In that kind of setting, yes, you'd better get a cleric with you! Healing is NOT overrated at all.
I definitely loved AD&D.
But now I play White Wolf almost exclusively. (oWOD, of course. )
Zurgo Helmsmasher would be berserker and token orc, Half-Orc if limit to classic playable races, although he has red and black, colors of your choices seem to lean towards Bant
The lack of playable dwarf is an issue, Depala, Pilot Exemplar and Balthor the Stout being the positive figures, but not entirely fitting for the "team" you chose.
Healers are actually wildly overrated in d&d. Off healing is all that is needed.
Whoa, whoa, whoa!
No way.
Or ... are you playing 5e? 4e?
Even 3e was a bit that way, too.
No, for the old-school curmudgeon, there is nothing like AD&D 2e, with its little-known rule "default to Breath Weapon save" and its Vancian spell system--which could be altered into a spell point system, according to Skills & Powers. (I highly recommend this.) In that kind of setting, yes, you'd better get a cleric with you! Healing is NOT overrated at all.
I definitely loved AD&D.
But now I play White Wolf almost exclusively. (oWOD, of course. )
I play PF. But yea DnD only needs off healing ever since 3e. (PF is equivalent to 3.5 in my opinion.) I know that the original DnD did require better healing, and so does late game DND (Like when they reach higher levels, as the monsters they face are tougher. so tehy have to heal in between combat.
Healers are actually wildly overrated in d&d. Off healing is all that is needed.
Whoa, whoa, whoa!
No way.
Or ... are you playing 5e? 4e?
I used to play Neverwinter Online (the 4e MMO, not Neverwinter Nights). My main was a Cleric, and I regularly soloed things no Cleric ought to be soloing. I once joined an in-progress Dread Vault run (endgame dungeon at the time), caught up with the party just as the fight with the first real boss began. The party wiped and respawned at the campfire, separated from the boss by a force field that says up until the boss dies or everyone in the party respawns. I was the last one left with the boss. The force field went down when the boss died.
Clerics soloing ability unfortunately got nerfed a few months later, but at the same time changes to the Cleric powers made it possible for a Cleric with a specific build, when paired with a Paladin, could make the entire party nearly invulnerable permanently. (One Paladin power made 100% of damage dealt to party members redirect to the Paladin, and the Paladin only takes 20% of that before applying his own defenses. The Cleric build made that power have 100% uptime.)
The actual 4e tabletop game tried very hard to make every class damage-capable. My roommate once tried to build a 4e Cleric incapable of damage beyond a basic attack with fists or an improvised weapon, and it took effort to do. Great Leader character, though. The only times we got worried in that campaign were when the Cleric got knocked unconscious, or against one boss with an attack that could inflict failed death saving throws without actually knocking you out first.
But now I play White Wolf almost exclusively. (oWOD, of course. )
I cut my teeth on oWoD Vampire. We played most of the oWoD splats (I don't think we ever did Mummy or Demon, and we never got around to using the Wild West Werewolf book), but eventually our group moved to Exalted and Scion. I've got the gold-plated ultra-deluxe edition Exalted 3e core book coming as soon as it's done being assembled. (Last month's backer update said the cover was finalized and being joined with the book, and they still had to gild the pages. I should be getting mine Soon™.)
I don't like to lock myself in, though. I'm currently in an Unknown Armies game, was recently in a D&D 4e game and a Numenera game, and before that I was running a game for a system that was an MLP spinoff of Unknown Armies.
We did that super-deluxe thing for the DA:Vampire book. Now, though, we're mostly into Mage. We just did a really cool fantasy setting game using M:tA rules.
We have a fair number of oWOD books, and a TON of AD&D 2e books. After M:tA, though, I feel spoiled.
I never really played many PC games, except for Baldur's Gate 2, which I taught myself to code for. My darling and I wrote mods for that game... And we still have an old laptop with Windows XP on it, just for running that game and its mods. Our kids play it now.
To help with the color program, you can run a 5 color General as Gary Gygax. Might be a little fourth wall breaking, but it could work. Personally, it's how I would go, simply because a lot of the black and red stuff you lose from Bant is fun, so many angry Barbarians, underhanded Rogues and twisted Necromancers that deserve loot and treasure too. lol Just a thought.
Definitely focus on the quest cards from Zendikar block. I had a thought to do a similar thing for the Factions of World of Warcraft and quests just fit so well into the idea.
Ok, so having some trouble picking between the "iconic" versions of cards.
Vampire
1) Olivia Voldaren - Encapsulates what DnD vampires do, and can use her "hypnotic" ability to sway people to your side.
2) Baron Sengir - Resembles Count Strahd a great deal and doubles as an Mtg favorite.
3) Bloodline Keeper - Would represent the generic vampire who slowly takes over the town.
Lich
1) Dralnu, Lich Lord - He is legendary, which is nice since usually lichs aren't your run of the mill villain. He also represents a Lich well by having access to many spells.
2) Phylactery Lich - This really gets to the big thing about being a lich, which is being semi unkillable.
Dragon
1) Numot the Devastator- The artwork is great, but the "destroying lands" but really plays up the idea of dragons razing towns.
2) Hellkite Tyrant - One of the things most associated with dragons is their hoarding g. This plays this up to the hilt and gives an alternative wincon.
3) Hellkite Overlord - Has flying, trample, haste and fire-breathing, which are the abilities I usually associated with dragons. Definitely would be one of those centuries old red dragons for an experienced party.
4) Malfegor - He's a demon and dragon. One of those outlandish high level villains.
Healers are actually wildly overrated in d&d. Off healing is all that is needed.
Whoa, whoa, whoa!
No way.
Or ... are you playing 5e? 4e?
Even 3e was a bit that way, too.
No, for the old-school curmudgeon, there is nothing like AD&D 2e, with its little-known rule "default to Breath Weapon save" and its Vancian spell system--which could be altered into a spell point system, according to Skills & Powers. (I highly recommend this.) In that kind of setting, yes, you'd better get a cleric with you! Healing is NOT overrated at all.
I play PF. But yea DnD only needs off healing ever since 3e. (PF is equivalent to 3.5 in my opinion.) I know that the original DnD did require better healing, and so does late game DND (Like when they reach higher levels, as the monsters they face are tougher. so tehy have to heal in between combat.
In-combat healing was always tactically suboptimal, even back in OD&D, because the damage output per round of monsters grew much more quickly than the Cleric's healing capacity. Cracking open the Basic D&D Rules Cyclopedia tells us all we need to know in this respect.
Cure light wounds heals a whopping 1d6+1 damage (avg 4.5), and the Cleric doesn't get a new healing spell until character level eight, and even that only heals 2d6+2. At level 1 you're seriously fighting two troglodytes, and each one gets three attacks for 1d4 (avg 2.5). There's no way you're outracing that with CLW. You're much better off making it die faster to make the hurting stop.
You can also find yourself fighting 2 ghouls at first level. Those jerks have the same attack routine, and while they do slightly less damage per hit, each hit threatens to permanently remove someone from the fight with paralysis, because that *****'s duration is seriously measured in 60-round increments. You have to kill them quickly, because like the combo player, they can win out of nowhere with even 1 HP remaining.
Everything just compounds from there. Monster damage output grows and grows, and save-or-die abilities proliferate. There is no point at which healing in-combat is a great idea. By the time you get access to the sixth-level spell cureall, you've been fighting goddamn 12-headed hydras, purple worms, and fire giants (who come with their own 1d3 hydras) for four levels. Once you do get cureall, all bets are off, as basically everything you face has some sort of SoD special.
Every edition of D&D grows into rocket launcher tag at some point. Well, except 4th, which goes the opposite direction.
Every edition of D&D grows into rocket launcher tag at some point. Well, except 4th, which goes the opposite direction.
I had a 4e Warden once who could go from 1hp to full health in a single round without assistance from any allies. (The only "maybe it'll work" bit was that he had to hit with a charge attack for part of it.) His health bar was a freaking yo-yo.
Clerics have way better things to do with their actions than heal. PREACH
Just speaking as someone who saw cleric go from their least favorite to favorite class after finally playing one right. Spear cleric with travel domain and buffs becomes a monster.
Also I would add a lot of equipment to the deck to simulate magical items and gearing up.
Ok, so having some trouble picking between the "iconic" versions of cards.
Vampire
1) Olivia Voldaren - Encapsulates what DnD vampires do, and can use her "hypnotic" ability to sway people to your side.
2) Baron Sengir - Resembles Count Strahd a great deal and doubles as an Mtg favorite.
3) Bloodline Keeper - Would represent the generic vampire who slowly takes over the town.
Lich
1) Dralnu, Lich Lord - He is legendary, which is nice since usually lichs aren't your run of the mill villain. He also represents a Lich well by having access to many spells.
2) Phylactery Lich - This really gets to the big thing about being a lich, which is being semi unkillable.
Dragon
1) Numot the Devastator- The artwork is great, but the "destroying lands" but really plays up the idea of dragons razing towns.
2) Hellkite Tyrant - One of the things most associated with dragons is their hoarding g. This plays this up to the hilt and gives an alternative wincon.
3) Hellkite Overlord - Has flying, trample, haste and fire-breathing, which are the abilities I usually associated with dragons. Definitely would be one of those centuries old red dragons for an experienced party.
4) Malfegor - He's a demon and dragon. One of those outlandish high level villains.
What do you guys think?
Well, how much space are you devoting to the enemies of your party? And are they in the same deck? Honestly, I'd say all of them. Having 1 dragon, 1 vampire, and 1 Lich round out your monsters will make them feel a bit...odd, I think. Though personally I'd leave them out of the Party deck and make your own deck of monsters. Especially since people like Baron Sengir (who is the perfect vampire for this, IMO) needs a good amount of vampires to work well.
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That leads me to three questions:
1) Who should the party consist of? Right now I am leaning towards having Ragnar as the commander, as he looks the part and can "heal" a character who has died. The two locks are:
Thada Adel - Thief
Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile - Halfling Fighter
Others I am looking at:
Ertai, Wizard Adept - He definitely has the right attitude for a DnD wizard...
Kytheon - Fits the defensive fighter mold
Nissa (origins) - Elf Druid... There's not many elves that fit the DnD mold
Surrak Hunt caller - Human barbarian type
Tolsimir Wolf blood- Elf Ranger (yay animal companion!)
Who else?
2) Should I go Bant or full color? Dipping into red gets me Surrak Dragon claw, who is a prototypical barbarian. But there's no good 5 c rep for DnD, unless I go with Gen Tazri just for his colors.
3) Should the deck only have "good guy" stuff, or should I try to include enemies that look like prototypical DnD bad guys? (Tarrasque, Vampires, beholders, etc) If the latter, I would have to go five color.
Thoughts?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Whoa, whoa, whoa!
No way.
Or ... are you playing 5e? 4e?
Even 3e was a bit that way, too.
No, for the old-school curmudgeon, there is nothing like AD&D 2e, with its little-known rule "default to Breath Weapon save" and its Vancian spell system--which could be altered into a spell point system, according to Skills & Powers. (I highly recommend this.) In that kind of setting, yes, you'd better get a cleric with you! Healing is NOT overrated at all.
I definitely loved AD&D.
But now I play White Wolf almost exclusively. (oWOD, of course. )
The lack of playable dwarf is an issue, Depala, Pilot Exemplar and Balthor the Stout being the positive figures, but not entirely fitting for the "team" you chose.
Iwamori of the Open Fist would be monk, or Narset, Enlightened Master if you want red.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
I play PF. But yea DnD only needs off healing ever since 3e. (PF is equivalent to 3.5 in my opinion.) I know that the original DnD did require better healing, and so does late game DND (Like when they reach higher levels, as the monsters they face are tougher. so tehy have to heal in between combat.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
If I go five color, Zurgo would be a great half-orc barbarian.
Maybe General Tazri will be my "quest giver"? Or I could use Progenitus as my Tarrasque...
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Clerics soloing ability unfortunately got nerfed a few months later, but at the same time changes to the Cleric powers made it possible for a Cleric with a specific build, when paired with a Paladin, could make the entire party nearly invulnerable permanently. (One Paladin power made 100% of damage dealt to party members redirect to the Paladin, and the Paladin only takes 20% of that before applying his own defenses. The Cleric build made that power have 100% uptime.)
The actual 4e tabletop game tried very hard to make every class damage-capable. My roommate once tried to build a 4e Cleric incapable of damage beyond a basic attack with fists or an improvised weapon, and it took effort to do. Great Leader character, though. The only times we got worried in that campaign were when the Cleric got knocked unconscious, or against one boss with an attack that could inflict failed death saving throws without actually knocking you out first.
I cut my teeth on oWoD Vampire. We played most of the oWoD splats (I don't think we ever did Mummy or Demon, and we never got around to using the Wild West Werewolf book), but eventually our group moved to Exalted and Scion. I've got the gold-plated ultra-deluxe edition Exalted 3e core book coming as soon as it's done being assembled. (Last month's backer update said the cover was finalized and being joined with the book, and they still had to gild the pages. I should be getting mine Soon™.)
I don't like to lock myself in, though. I'm currently in an Unknown Armies game, was recently in a D&D 4e game and a Numenera game, and before that I was running a game for a system that was an MLP spinoff of Unknown Armies.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Personally I'd use a commander that has black in it. It'd be fun to use old school flavourful cards like royal assassin and sorceress queen.
Some commander possibilities:
Kresh the bloodbraided
Adun oakenshield
Nekusar, the mindrazer
Sen triplets
Sydri, galvanic genius
Zur the enchanter
My G Yisan, the Bard of Death G deck.
My BUGWR Hermit druid BUGWR deck.
We have a fair number of oWOD books, and a TON of AD&D 2e books. After M:tA, though, I feel spoiled.
I never really played many PC games, except for Baldur's Gate 2, which I taught myself to code for. My darling and I wrote mods for that game... And we still have an old laptop with Windows XP on it, just for running that game and its mods. Our kids play it now.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I played oWOD werewolf... but vampire players were a bit too "into" the role playing. Would love to give Mage or Mummy a whirl.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
You mean the PC game produced by Black Isle? If so, yes. I loved it! Played the stuffing out of it.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Yes, but they don't have typical DnD abilities. I think I might add Tivadar of Thorn to the party...
I wish there was a cleric that could take out undead. (Funny enough, Mikaeus the Unhallowed is a great DnD villain.)
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Definitely focus on the quest cards from Zendikar block. I had a thought to do a similar thing for the Factions of World of Warcraft and quests just fit so well into the idea.
I hope the next commander set has some legendary equipment.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Vampire
1) Olivia Voldaren - Encapsulates what DnD vampires do, and can use her "hypnotic" ability to sway people to your side.
2) Baron Sengir - Resembles Count Strahd a great deal and doubles as an Mtg favorite.
3) Bloodline Keeper - Would represent the generic vampire who slowly takes over the town.
Lich
1) Dralnu, Lich Lord - He is legendary, which is nice since usually lichs aren't your run of the mill villain. He also represents a Lich well by having access to many spells.
2) Phylactery Lich - This really gets to the big thing about being a lich, which is being semi unkillable.
Dragon
1) Numot the Devastator- The artwork is great, but the "destroying lands" but really plays up the idea of dragons razing towns.
2) Hellkite Tyrant - One of the things most associated with dragons is their hoarding g. This plays this up to the hilt and gives an alternative wincon.
3) Hellkite Overlord - Has flying, trample, haste and fire-breathing, which are the abilities I usually associated with dragons. Definitely would be one of those centuries old red dragons for an experienced party.
4) Malfegor - He's a demon and dragon. One of those outlandish high level villains.
What do you guys think?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
In-combat healing was always tactically suboptimal, even back in OD&D, because the damage output per round of monsters grew much more quickly than the Cleric's healing capacity. Cracking open the Basic D&D Rules Cyclopedia tells us all we need to know in this respect.
Cure light wounds heals a whopping 1d6+1 damage (avg 4.5), and the Cleric doesn't get a new healing spell until character level eight, and even that only heals 2d6+2. At level 1 you're seriously fighting two troglodytes, and each one gets three attacks for 1d4 (avg 2.5). There's no way you're outracing that with CLW. You're much better off making it die faster to make the hurting stop.
You can also find yourself fighting 2 ghouls at first level. Those jerks have the same attack routine, and while they do slightly less damage per hit, each hit threatens to permanently remove someone from the fight with paralysis, because that *****'s duration is seriously measured in 60-round increments. You have to kill them quickly, because like the combo player, they can win out of nowhere with even 1 HP remaining.
Everything just compounds from there. Monster damage output grows and grows, and save-or-die abilities proliferate. There is no point at which healing in-combat is a great idea. By the time you get access to the sixth-level spell cureall, you've been fighting goddamn 12-headed hydras, purple worms, and fire giants (who come with their own 1d3 hydras) for four levels. Once you do get cureall, all bets are off, as basically everything you face has some sort of SoD special.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Just speaking as someone who saw cleric go from their least favorite to favorite class after finally playing one right. Spear cleric with travel domain and buffs becomes a monster.
Also I would add a lot of equipment to the deck to simulate magical items and gearing up.
Well, how much space are you devoting to the enemies of your party? And are they in the same deck? Honestly, I'd say all of them. Having 1 dragon, 1 vampire, and 1 Lich round out your monsters will make them feel a bit...odd, I think. Though personally I'd leave them out of the Party deck and make your own deck of monsters. Especially since people like Baron Sengir (who is the perfect vampire for this, IMO) needs a good amount of vampires to work well.