This thread is created to explore not just the theory of group hug but to study it, improve it to a degree, understand it better, look at good card and bad cards for group hug. With my hypothesis I have come to my own conclusion that there are four types of group hug decks. These deck types can be inner mixed. But to the core there is false group hug/group slug, silly group hug, chaos group hug, and puppeteer group hug. Two of these styles are responsible with there hugs and want the game to move forward. The other two are not so serious about the game and want to see things get crazy. Color choice had a huge factor in the build of each style. Feel free to post links to other threads. I, my self an working on a puppeteer style group hug in rwu
This site has post 2nd from the top that I feel this Form should head towards.
I would like the discussion to improve the theory of acceptable and responsible group hug. One that is fun for all but spike players. There is no changing their minds.
Topics to talk about:
Cards- acceptable/not acceptable
Strategies- play to win/not to win
Group hug exclusion- ex: death by dragons
Color combination and their approach to hug-
Possible unexplored generals-
How to better group hug- become the monarch?
Politics- group hug can be the most powerful upon a good temporary deal.
Please provide links. Keep it light on hate. Keep it modest. Keep it positive to the topic. If you feel there are problems with group hug please provide solutions. Thank you.
In my experience all group hug does is make the combo deck win faster and screw over anyone trying to play a control or denial strategy. It also makes position at the table even more important. If you give me free extra care or mana in my first 3 turns and im playoff combo Chances are you just made it so the table is dead. If my strategy revolves around preventing this from happening you just made my job very hard. Obviously there are other kinds of decks but in my experience when I see group hug as control I try and kill there ***** as its horrible for me, if im on common I grin and slaughter the table.
Your games sound like you play against a silly group hug deck. It seems that no one really likes those decks. This Form is to explore the positive and responsible types of play style along with the other listed topics
Giving opponents cards/mana/whatever is pretty much always a bad idea
If you want to "referee" the game can you really spare slots on group hug cards? You are basically playing a control deck, you need as many slots as possible for counterspells and answers
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
.
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
The deck that is posted is one i play often. I empower others to kill each other. I have not been able to play it with monarch politics yet. More over it works well for what I'm trying to accomplish. The cards I have fun with is Psychic Battle, Zur's Weirding, and exclusion cards like Oath of Lieges, Death by Dragons, Wheel and Deal.
Your games sound like you play against a silly group hug deck. It seems that no one really likes those decks. This Form is to explore the positive and responsible types of play style along with the other listed topics
While I understand what your trying to do I think it's a futile effort. Sure the extent to which you play these Cards and how powerful they are will change how impactful lit is in the game but the recipe modes not change. Combo benefits the most from free resources a control get down yet then lomas and whoever gets to sue them first has a distinct advantage in tempo the enitre game. Imo the best way to use them is play combo yourself there is no way to be "the hero" outside of sitting yourself to play directly before he weakest player. The more hug cards you pay the worse it is. The more powerful the effect the worse it is. The nature off your oppoents decks will determined exactly how powerful the hug is. If my goal is to prevent oppoents from gaining resources your hug cards are threats I will kill them. If my goal is to find a critacal mass of my own resources to combo off I will abuse them. Your archetypes don't have much relevance to me I don't thinking that really matteres all that much.
In my experience all group hug does is make the combo deck win faster and screw over anyone trying to play a control or denial strategy.
The other two possibilities are if the "group hug" player is playing kingmaker, and they're choosing a specific other player to win; or they're taking symmetrical, traditionally group hug cards, and breaking the symmetry.
Howling Mine is a group hug card. Howling Mine + Lodestone Myr is not. Prosperity is a group hug card. Prosperity + Leovold is not. Etc.
In my experience all group hug does is make the combo deck win faster and screw over anyone trying to play a control or denial strategy.
The other two possibilities are if the "group hug" player is playing kingmaker, and they're choosing a specific other player to win; or they're taking symmetrical, traditionally group hug cards, and breaking the symmetry.
Howling Mine is a group hug card. Howling Mine + Lodestone Myr is not. Prosperity is a group hug card. Prosperity + Leovold is not. Etc.
in general I would agree with this though I don't think those are very good examples perhaps that was intended. I use helm of awakening in storm and yes i intended for it to be better for enabling an instant kill used as a ritual or turning the already powerful future top engine into an instant kill so yes I agree. As I said for the most part i feel like using them correctly leads to combo for instance mana flare is good for everyone but mana flare + time warps and untap effects is better for me. What I don't think is a good idea is what he is trying to do in play a card like oath of Lieges in a control shell as mentioned earlier. In general the actual hug cards will help combo more. in general the guy who gets to use the free resources first is in a better position due to tempo. While i can think of valid reasons to use "hug" cards i cannot see them as an archetype that is "fun for all" unless you have a meta that for whatever reason all benefits from the cards equally which has more to do with how your opponents decks function than anything you can do to your own. This is one of the few times im going to agree with saplings sentiments. His deck can make better use of the cards he wants to play because of something like boundless realms until someone runs a more efficient combo or the already mentioned untaps/ time magic and then it backfires horribly. So while it is possible to get the result that wizardboy is looking for i think its going to be largely dependent on the people he is playing with and it still wont change the fact his oath will help certain decks more than others and the one who gets to use its triggers first will gain a tempo advantage regardless.
These are all good theories. While oath does help the ones behind the most, and perhaps the guy/gal next to me is up 3 lands already. This Form is to focus on the topics in the first post. Remember, this is casual related. Group hug in competitive environment does lead to the outcomes you are talking about. While it is relevant, I don't believe we are expanding our insight to a more positive point of view for those seeking information before they choose to build a group hug deck of one of the 4 types. Anywhere from Nekusar to Phelddagrif. And whether they want to be silly or serious.
I am saying when you say "I would like the discussion to improve the theory of acceptable and responsible group hug." I think what is acceptable is almost entirely up to your playgroup, how it affects your game is mostly dependent exactly on the kinds of decks THEY play not you. Which hug cards are more degenerate or casual and fine again is more dependent on what they are playing not you. What is responsible is again simply based on the expectations of the group they play with. I don't think there can be a good set of general guidelines its very meta specific i was simply pointing out in general how the cards affect certain archetypes regardless of power level
In my experience all group hug does is make the combo deck win faster and screw over anyone trying to play a control or denial strategy.
The other two possibilities are if the "group hug" player is playing kingmaker, and they're choosing a specific other player to win; or they're taking symmetrical, traditionally group hug cards, and breaking the symmetry.
Howling Mine is a group hug card. Howling Mine + Lodestone Myr is not. Prosperity is a group hug card. Prosperity + Leovold is not. Etc.
I'd also add the "wolf in sheep's clothing" hug deck as another possibility. These are basically combo decks hiding in hug shells, where they can take advantage of the goodwill/time/mana/cards that the hug deck provides to get off their combos.
Now with this list, I feel each of these have potential to better the group hug archetype.
Can anyone think of cards that are hug gy that also call on your opponents to kill each other. Like the vow of such a such auras are clever. Assault Suit on Ruhan of the Fomori is pretty fun.
There are many topics that can be explored on this forum
Group hug's initial intention is to increase the resources players have at their disposal. We all know the three major resources in magic are life, mana, and cards. In EDH life isn't very relevant, so most group hug options either increase mana or increase cards.
My theory behind playing group hug successfully is that you cannot hug mana AND cards simultaneously. Doing that allows players to go very crazy, and since you're the one playing those hug cards usually you'll get the benefit from them last. If you're playing against anyone that's semi-competitive you will get run over immediately.
My zedruu deck (in my sig) is a group hug deck that grants a lot of card draw, but does not grant extra mana, and I have a few cards that actually restrict players' mana in some way (Rule of Law for example helps prevent players from going out of control).
My theory behind playing group hug successfully is that you cannot hug mana AND cards simultaneously. Doing that allows players to go very crazy, and since you're the one playing those hug cards usually you'll get the benefit from them last. If you're playing against anyone that's semi-competitive you will get run over immediately.
Group hug is a pretty criminally underexplored deck archetype. Probably cause anyone who wants to play group hug is thinking "everybody have fun" and everyone who wants to play magic at a high level is taking the Moxnix approach and assuming the hug player is just a reckless enabler.
Group hug is the flip side of the stax coin. The basic idea is to really screw with the balance of resources in the game, and then if you want to win, you have to be the player most prepared to play under the new conditions. I won't disagree that playing Mana Flare and passing to the High Tide player is suicide, but it's no dumber than a Stax player using Smokestack when one player has a token swarm and everyone else is saccing lands. The ability of the archetype to commit suicide when played irresponsibly shouldn't matter if you're trying to win, though.
But there are tons of times where global resource gains have proven very strong, it's just all about breaking the symmetry. You can break the symmetry by using the advantage to win fast: Aluren is a symmetrical card, but the deck playing it is prepared for it and the opponent isn't. Show and Tell is a group hug card, but being the deck with Emrakul breaks that symmetry in half. Dream Halls enables your opponent immensely, and also wins the game. Braids, Conjurer Adept is a perfectly fine edh deck when your free things are better. Or you can break the symmetry by making it meaningless: classic turbo fog decks say "here, have a ton of cards.... aaaand they're useless now. The example above with giving a ton of cards and then playing Rule of Law. I'm not saying that these are group hug decks, just trying to illustrate how building your deck around global resource gains can be a powerful and competitive strategy. You just have to be smart about it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
For Bant group hug i'll choose Angus Mackenzie. Fog you to stay alive or can even fog an opponent to protect him
I didn't even think about him. He looks pretty good. It reminds me of Sunstone and snow lands, which anyone could put in their deck if they like the idea of having power over who lives and dies.
As far as choice of hug I see how mixing more than two of the strongest 4 could make the game crazy. 1) extra mana 2) extra cards 3) low cost/free spells 4) free direct to play permanents. Sticking with one or two of these major hugs sounds feasible. For instance, my deck aims to give players cards, spells, tokens and life. There is however, some chaos like Mass Hysteria and Bedlam. These mostly work out for narset to get going. It also keeps the game moving forward in theory. But they are new additions to the deck and need to be tested. The pillow fort side of the build protects me from those who fall into the chaos
Group hug is a pretty criminally underexplored deck archetype. Probably cause anyone who wants to play group hug is thinking "everybody have fun" and everyone who wants to play magic at a high level is taking the Moxnix approach and assuming the hug player is just a reckless enabler.
I agree with the latter two paragraphs in your post, but not this one. I can recognize when someone playing a group hug deck is doing it in a responsible way, but that doesn't mean I like playing against it as an archetype. I'm significantly less competitive than Moxnix is but I'll still go out of my way to kill off group hug players first. If the end goal of the game is to win (spike mentality), then they're hampering my ability to do that by helping all of my opponents. If the end goal of the game is to see how my deck functions (johnny mentality), they're hampering my ability to do that by giving it more of some resource than it would have on its own - I don't get the satisfaction of seeing my deck work because of how it was built. If I just want to throw big creatures out on the board (timmy mentality) it helps with that, but all of my opponents get the same benefit and having big creatures is not nearly as satisfying if my opponents have creatures as big or bigger. The group hug mentality of "everyone have fun" doesn't account for different things being fun for different people.
Note that I'm not talking about decks abusing symmetric effects or decks playing occasional hug cards. I wouldn't classify those as group hug decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
I agree with the latter two paragraphs in your post, but not this one. I can recognize when someone playing a group hug deck is doing it in a responsible way, but that doesn't mean I like playing against it as an archetype. I'm significantly less competitive than Moxnix is but I'll still go out of my way to kill off group hug players first. If the end goal of the game is to win (spike mentality), then they're hampering my ability to do that by helping all of my opponents. If the end goal of the game is to see how my deck functions (johnny mentality), they're hampering my ability to do that by giving it more of some resource than it would have on its own - I don't get the satisfaction of seeing my deck work because of how it was built. If I just want to throw big creatures out on the board (timmy mentality) it helps with that, but all of my opponents get the same benefit and having big creatures is not nearly as satisfying if my opponents have creatures as big or bigger. The group hug mentality of "everyone have fun" doesn't account for different things being fun for different people.
Note that I'm not talking about decks abusing symmetric effects or decks playing occasional hug cards. I wouldn't classify those as group hug decks.
Well, I agree with everything you're saying, so ha!
Seriously though, I don't blame anyone for disliking group hug and killing it first, much like I don't blame anyone for disliking stax and killing it first. When I said people thinking "everyone have fun," I meant exactly that: people thinking that. Personally, I love that crazy nonsense, but trying to make a deck that everyone every will like to play against is a fools errand. (I like to think my zedruu gets pretty close, but there have been requests to never play against it.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
While I like playing my group hug deck. I see cards that are a hassle for everyone. Including myself. Example Warp World
But most all, Scrambleverse. These cards have their place, but I feel it takes away from the game progression. IMO, that is what's important for a responsible group hug vs a silly group hug.
Another topic is for those who say they go after the group hug deck first. The hugger might just king make the guy next to you and proceeded in politics. Because there is such things as exclusion hug and single hug. Giving your friend the gun so they can do the dirty work or just leaving you out of the hug effect
Going after the group hug almost never works out in my experience, because while you're focusing down on the group hug player, another player just quickly escalates to a win.
My group's version on Group Hug is more political than hug. It's about making deals and tactically breaking those deals. The catch is this: We custom made the one political deck and always play 4 player FFA with it. It's a blast since clone hug decks got boring af
If I could ban any card from the format, I'd have to think long and hard about it. If I could go back in time and burn the original design of a card to ashes so that it would never be made, it would be Scrambleverse. Don't give it a place, it doesn't deserve one, and I would never in my life call that monstrosity a group hug. Blech.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
My group's version on Group Hug is more political than hug. It's about making deals and tactically breaking those deals. The catch is this: We custom made the one political deck and always play 4 player FFA with it. It's a blast since clone hug decks got boring af
A group political deck? Combination with the new Monarch mechanic? Please please may we all discover something new together. How can this happen especially with 4 color commanders around the corner. Remember to brew according to the responsibility theory in this forum
This joint political deck interests me. Though it is not group hug it does share qualities of interest for those seeking.
Please. Share a link with this new theory of political deck in the future.
My group's version on Group Hug is more political than hug. It's about making deals and tactically breaking those deals. The catch is this: We custom made the one political deck and always play 4 player FFA with it. It's a blast since clone hug decks got boring af
That deck interests me as well. Would it be possible to share the decklist? Or, if you don't have the list on PC and don't want to type up the 100 cards, at least share the general strategy and some key/example cards?
Another topic is for those who say they go after the group hug deck first. The hugger might just king make the guy next to you and proceeded in politics. Because there is such things as exclusion hug and single hug. Giving your friend the gun so they can do the dirty work or just leaving you out of the hug effect
Going after the group hug almost never works out in my experience, because while you're focusing down on the group hug player, another player just quickly escalates to a win.
Sure, but it's more a matter of principle. What does it matter if someone else wins when we were never really playing the same game anyways? If someone pulls out a group hug deck, I'm going to do my level best to kill them. If they keep playing that deck, it just makes picking targets easy for those games. It's not an archetype any of the regulars in my playgroup are interested in, so it's not like the situation comes up all that often.
Again, I'm just talking the dedicated hug/chaos decks. I play with and against those effects on a regular basis. Someone running some number of them because they can break the symmetry or otherwise take advantage is a slightly different story.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
Another topic is for those who say they go after the group hug deck first. The hugger might just king make the guy next to you and proceeded in politics. Because there is such things as exclusion hug and single hug. Giving your friend the gun so they can do the dirty work or just leaving you out of the hug effect
Going after the group hug almost never works out in my experience, because while you're focusing down on the group hug player, another player just quickly escalates to a win.
Sure, but it's more a matter of principle. What does it matter if someone else wins when we were never really playing the same game anyways? If someone pulls out a group hug deck, I'm going to do my level best to kill them. If they keep playing that deck, it just makes picking targets easy for those games. It's not an archetype any of the regulars in my playgroup are interested in, so it's not like the situation comes up all that often.
Again, I'm just talking the dedicated hug/chaos decks. I play with and against those effects on a regular basis. Someone running some number of them because they can break the symmetry or otherwise take advantage is a slightly different story.
I've not played against many Group Hug decks. The one I distinctly remember was a Mono-G Kamigawa snake tribe deck. It was pretty devious because it was easily the most able to take advantage of all the ramp and cards it was providing and then all the sudden would drop crazy things out of "nowhere". I was wary of the deck from go so I would occasionally "trim the hedges" of the deck. Not wreck it, but just slow it down a little. It made for an extremely fun play experience though because I was trying to balance it versus the rest of the table. It was very rewarding. Everyone had a lot of fun. The Hug deck didn't do any King Making either because it was more of the "wolf in sheep's clothing" type deck. It was built in a way that it could easily be interacted with but not in a way that necessarily made you want to. 10/10, would compete again.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The following link is an invitation to join Pucatrade (card trading service though similar to TCGPLayer). If you follow the link then it awards me with tokens to exchange for actual cards. Thanks! https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
This site has post 2nd from the top that I feel this Form should head towards.
https://m.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/3r3vm5/does_anyone_dislike_playing_with_group_hug_decks/https://m.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/3r3vm5/does_anyone_dislike_playing_with_group_hug_decks/
Here is my deck
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/narset-group-hug-referee/
I would like the discussion to improve the theory of acceptable and responsible group hug. One that is fun for all but spike players. There is no changing their minds.
Topics to talk about:
Cards- acceptable/not acceptable
Strategies- play to win/not to win
Group hug exclusion- ex: death by dragons
Color combination and their approach to hug-
Possible unexplored generals-
How to better group hug- become the monarch?
Politics- group hug can be the most powerful upon a good temporary deal.
Please provide links. Keep it light on hate. Keep it modest. Keep it positive to the topic. If you feel there are problems with group hug please provide solutions. Thank you.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
If you want to "referee" the game can you really spare slots on group hug cards? You are basically playing a control deck, you need as many slots as possible for counterspells and answers
Knowledge is power, money is power, time is money, you are actually gaining time by reading my posts
Click here and check out my Formerly Pauper Cube.
check out my EDH and Pauper EDH decks here
While I understand what your trying to do I think it's a futile effort. Sure the extent to which you play these Cards and how powerful they are will change how impactful lit is in the game but the recipe modes not change. Combo benefits the most from free resources a control get down yet then lomas and whoever gets to sue them first has a distinct advantage in tempo the enitre game. Imo the best way to use them is play combo yourself there is no way to be "the hero" outside of sitting yourself to play directly before he weakest player. The more hug cards you pay the worse it is. The more powerful the effect the worse it is. The nature off your oppoents decks will determined exactly how powerful the hug is. If my goal is to prevent oppoents from gaining resources your hug cards are threats I will kill them. If my goal is to find a critacal mass of my own resources to combo off I will abuse them. Your archetypes don't have much relevance to me I don't thinking that really matteres all that much.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
Howling Mine is a group hug card. Howling Mine + Lodestone Myr is not. Prosperity is a group hug card. Prosperity + Leovold is not. Etc.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
in general I would agree with this though I don't think those are very good examples perhaps that was intended. I use helm of awakening in storm and yes i intended for it to be better for enabling an instant kill used as a ritual or turning the already powerful future top engine into an instant kill so yes I agree. As I said for the most part i feel like using them correctly leads to combo for instance mana flare is good for everyone but mana flare + time warps and untap effects is better for me. What I don't think is a good idea is what he is trying to do in play a card like oath of Lieges in a control shell as mentioned earlier. In general the actual hug cards will help combo more. in general the guy who gets to use the free resources first is in a better position due to tempo. While i can think of valid reasons to use "hug" cards i cannot see them as an archetype that is "fun for all" unless you have a meta that for whatever reason all benefits from the cards equally which has more to do with how your opponents decks function than anything you can do to your own. This is one of the few times im going to agree with saplings sentiments. His deck can make better use of the cards he wants to play because of something like boundless realms until someone runs a more efficient combo or the already mentioned untaps/ time magic and then it backfires horribly. So while it is possible to get the result that wizardboy is looking for i think its going to be largely dependent on the people he is playing with and it still wont change the fact his oath will help certain decks more than others and the one who gets to use its triggers first will gain a tempo advantage regardless.
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I am saying when you say "I would like the discussion to improve the theory of acceptable and responsible group hug." I think what is acceptable is almost entirely up to your playgroup, how it affects your game is mostly dependent exactly on the kinds of decks THEY play not you. Which hug cards are more degenerate or casual and fine again is more dependent on what they are playing not you. What is responsible is again simply based on the expectations of the group they play with. I don't think there can be a good set of general guidelines its very meta specific i was simply pointing out in general how the cards affect certain archetypes regardless of power level
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
I'd also add the "wolf in sheep's clothing" hug deck as another possibility. These are basically combo decks hiding in hug shells, where they can take advantage of the goodwill/time/mana/cards that the hug deck provides to get off their combos.
Commanders that I feel belong in the responsible class of playability are listed here.
Phelddagrif
Nekusar, the Mindrazer
Edric, Spymaster of Trest
Zedruu the Greathearted
Narset, Enlightened Master
Gahiji, Honored One
Gwafa Hazid, Profiteer
Riku of Two Reflections
Nin, the Pain Artist
Selvala, Explorer Returned
Karona, False God
Now with this list, I feel each of these have potential to better the group hug archetype.
Can anyone think of cards that are hug gy that also call on your opponents to kill each other. Like the vow of such a such auras are clever. Assault Suit on Ruhan of the Fomori is pretty fun.
There are many topics that can be explored on this forum
My theory behind playing group hug successfully is that you cannot hug mana AND cards simultaneously. Doing that allows players to go very crazy, and since you're the one playing those hug cards usually you'll get the benefit from them last. If you're playing against anyone that's semi-competitive you will get run over immediately.
My zedruu deck (in my sig) is a group hug deck that grants a lot of card draw, but does not grant extra mana, and I have a few cards that actually restrict players' mana in some way (Rule of Law for example helps prevent players from going out of control).
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
Eh, I play Howling Mines with Mana Flares all the time. Or even worse, Howling Mine and Dream Halls. it can work, it just takes great restraint.
Group hug is a pretty criminally underexplored deck archetype. Probably cause anyone who wants to play group hug is thinking "everybody have fun" and everyone who wants to play magic at a high level is taking the Moxnix approach and assuming the hug player is just a reckless enabler.
Group hug is the flip side of the stax coin. The basic idea is to really screw with the balance of resources in the game, and then if you want to win, you have to be the player most prepared to play under the new conditions. I won't disagree that playing Mana Flare and passing to the High Tide player is suicide, but it's no dumber than a Stax player using Smokestack when one player has a token swarm and everyone else is saccing lands. The ability of the archetype to commit suicide when played irresponsibly shouldn't matter if you're trying to win, though.
But there are tons of times where global resource gains have proven very strong, it's just all about breaking the symmetry. You can break the symmetry by using the advantage to win fast: Aluren is a symmetrical card, but the deck playing it is prepared for it and the opponent isn't. Show and Tell is a group hug card, but being the deck with Emrakul breaks that symmetry in half. Dream Halls enables your opponent immensely, and also wins the game. Braids, Conjurer Adept is a perfectly fine edh deck when your free things are better. Or you can break the symmetry by making it meaningless: classic turbo fog decks say "here, have a ton of cards.... aaaand they're useless now. The example above with giving a ton of cards and then playing Rule of Law. I'm not saying that these are group hug decks, just trying to illustrate how building your deck around global resource gains can be a powerful and competitive strategy. You just have to be smart about it.
I didn't even think about him. He looks pretty good. It reminds me of Sunstone and snow lands, which anyone could put in their deck if they like the idea of having power over who lives and dies.
As far as choice of hug I see how mixing more than two of the strongest 4 could make the game crazy. 1) extra mana 2) extra cards 3) low cost/free spells 4) free direct to play permanents. Sticking with one or two of these major hugs sounds feasible. For instance, my deck aims to give players cards, spells, tokens and life. There is however, some chaos like Mass Hysteria and Bedlam. These mostly work out for narset to get going. It also keeps the game moving forward in theory. But they are new additions to the deck and need to be tested. The pillow fort side of the build protects me from those who fall into the chaos
Note that I'm not talking about decks abusing symmetric effects or decks playing occasional hug cards. I wouldn't classify those as group hug decks.
Well, I agree with everything you're saying, so ha!
Seriously though, I don't blame anyone for disliking group hug and killing it first, much like I don't blame anyone for disliking stax and killing it first. When I said people thinking "everyone have fun," I meant exactly that: people thinking that. Personally, I love that crazy nonsense, but trying to make a deck that everyone every will like to play against is a fools errand. (I like to think my zedruu gets pretty close, but there have been requests to never play against it.)
But most all, Scrambleverse. These cards have their place, but I feel it takes away from the game progression. IMO, that is what's important for a responsible group hug vs a silly group hug.
Another topic is for those who say they go after the group hug deck first. The hugger might just king make the guy next to you and proceeded in politics. Because there is such things as exclusion hug and single hug. Giving your friend the gun so they can do the dirty work or just leaving you out of the hug effect
WUBRGProgenitus
URGMaelstrom Wanderer
WUBOloro, Ageless Ascetic
WURZedruu, the Greathearted
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher ($100)
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Tactician ($100)
UGKruphix, God of Horizons ($100)(retired)UTalrand, Sky Summoner (French 1v1, $100)
If I could ban any card from the format, I'd have to think long and hard about it. If I could go back in time and burn the original design of a card to ashes so that it would never be made, it would be Scrambleverse. Don't give it a place, it doesn't deserve one, and I would never in my life call that monstrosity a group hug. Blech.
A group political deck? Combination with the new Monarch mechanic? Please please may we all discover something new together. How can this happen especially with 4 color commanders around the corner. Remember to brew according to the responsibility theory in this forum
This joint political deck interests me. Though it is not group hug it does share qualities of interest for those seeking.
Please. Share a link with this new theory of political deck in the future.
Again, I'm just talking the dedicated hug/chaos decks. I play with and against those effects on a regular basis. Someone running some number of them because they can break the symmetry or otherwise take advantage is a slightly different story.
I've not played against many Group Hug decks. The one I distinctly remember was a Mono-G Kamigawa snake tribe deck. It was pretty devious because it was easily the most able to take advantage of all the ramp and cards it was providing and then all the sudden would drop crazy things out of "nowhere". I was wary of the deck from go so I would occasionally "trim the hedges" of the deck. Not wreck it, but just slow it down a little. It made for an extremely fun play experience though because I was trying to balance it versus the rest of the table. It was very rewarding. Everyone had a lot of fun. The Hug deck didn't do any King Making either because it was more of the "wolf in sheep's clothing" type deck. It was built in a way that it could easily be interacted with but not in a way that necessarily made you want to. 10/10, would compete again.
https://pucatrade.com/invite/gift/86097