Cascading into a counterspell sucks, so be careful what kind of counters you run. Spelljack is amazing. Permanent-based counters like Glen Elendra Archmage help, too.
Bouncing Maelstrom Wanderer to recast from hand is cheaper than recasting from your command zone. Erratic Portal and Crystal Shard are both cheap and reusable.
Food Chain can get you a ridiculous amount of mana for re-casting from the command zone. It's not infinite and it might make your commander uncastable later, but it's an option.
I was looking for along the lines of how many of each color combo.
but thanks for the link, i guess i'll look into the variety.
It depends a lot on the colour make up of your deck. For my 3 colour decks I use as many as are applicable of: Shocks, check lands, tri land, Ravnica karoo and pain lands. If you can get fetches and/or ABU duals then use them. After that comes some utility lands then address balance with basics. Is your deck mostly green? use more forests than islands and mountains.
As for what to put into the deck you can usually just fill it with good stuff and manipulate your top deck a bit to make sure you dont just hit Counterspell on the Cascade. Animar, Soul of Elements is a worthwhile include for reducing the cast costs.
If you do decide to play counterspells, try to play modal ones that will do something else if your mana-base allows (i.e. Mystic Confluence is good, but Cryptic Command might be a stretch with UUU cost even though the tap creatures opponents control with mass haste could be very powerful).
Also, permanents that give you control options are pretty good, (Glen Elendra Archmage is the one that springs to mind for me).
I don't want to net-deck it, because i feel like it wouldn't be MY deck i'm playing.
There are a lot of threads on maelstrom wanderer here. He's an exceedingly popular EDH General and is a very easy goodstuff.dec to build.
1. Play things you want.
2. Use permanents (especially creatures) over spells.
3. Use all the duals you have...?
If you really want to make it your own....
I personally love the spell package that I run in my MW and prefer them over the few creatures that are in there. As far as lands I run 9 shocks, 6 duals, and 6 basics of each color only because I like equal proportions.
Cryptolith Rite/Earthcraft is secret tech in my build since all of my tokens have haste for the former, leading me to get a Storm-Combo going as a backup plan in case I can't swing with my guys.
Another card to use to make sure your cascade works well is Soothsaying. The shuffle your deck ability is underrated as well. I play with this is several decks and almost no one ever uses the resources to kill it.
Turnabout as always is great for it's flexibility. If you want to swing without blockers, need mana to recast MW or just want to stall one of your opponents, it'll do.
Another card to use to make sure your cascade works well is Soothsaying. The shuffle your deck ability is underrated as well. I play with this is several decks and almost no one ever uses the resources to kill it.
I have people gunning for my Soothsaying when I play Narset
I've been playing this deck for a long time, and went through many, many iterations throughout the past 3 years.
If you want to be able to compete with top tier decks, there are a few things that you need to consider:
1. Removal. You need efficient ways to interact with your opponents that are faster than you. Most versions of Wanderer that I have seen severely neglect this aspect of the game, and rely on the other players at the table to help them survive the early game. At your core you are a ramp deck with tons of bombs. Your biggest weaknesses are taxeffects, landdestruction, and RuleofLaw effects, and your opponents know it. You need ways to stop other combo decks from winning before you. You need gravehate to stop reanimator/artifact/dredge decks. You need spot removal for those pesky stax pieces. Sometimes, a good ole' boardreset is what you need more than anything else. Some of my favorite cards for this are Noxious Revival, Llawan, Cephalid Empress (stops many popular commanders, and relatively hard to clone), Dack Fayden, Gilded Drake and Decimate.
2. Despite diluting your potential cascades with removal spells (above), you need your proactive cards to be as impactful as possible. I typically want my cascades to either provide 2+ mana (so I can actively recast Wanderer again) or give me 3+ card advantage and advance my board state significantly. Draw spells need to get 5+ cards (Garruk, Primal Hunter, Arcanis the Omnipotent, Time Spiral, Seasons' Past, Recurring Insight). Attacking creatures should be able to end the game in 2 swings at most (Pathbreaker Ibex, Scourge of the Throne, Malignus, Void Winnower).
3. Time Warp effects are basically the most ideal cards to cascade into. This deck is more able to take advantage of an extra turn than any other that I've ever seen. You have the mana to cast it, you can take advantage of extra combat, and you have haste so you can just cast more bombs. Play 3-5 of these effects if possible.
4. Stax cards that help your game plan. As previously mentioned, there are many decks that are much faster than this one, and extremely able to hinder our early game development (or just kill us). Some good ways to stop them are with my favorite red enchantments Possibility Storm, Planar Chaos, and Stranglehold. Our deck is just naturally more able to take advantage of these 'symmetrical' effects than any other competitive deck. Our deck is full of more bombs, and we generally cast more spells. Also, these cards help us reach the mid-late game (turns 5-9), where this deck really shines. Also worth mentioning again: Llawan, Cephalid Empress, Void Winnower (works really well with Possibility Storm), Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger, Glen Elendra Archmage, Balefire Dragon, Rhystic Study, and Decimate.
5. The combo. There are several combo options we can go with in our colors, but given our creature-heavy playstyle and reliance on the Big Daddy Wanderer, the most effective ones all involve Palinchron. The stupid bird monster gets infinite mana with several other already useful cards: anymanadoublingcards, Deadeye Navigator, Phantasmal Image, Cloudstone Curio + clone, and Gaea's Cradle with 5+ blue sources on lands and 6+ creatures. I'm sure there are others that I play in my deck, but I haven't had to use them. Tooth and Nail can get you an easy win, grabbing one of those combos, or a bounce card + Eternal Witness + Time Warp. You can still pay the kicker if you cascade into it. Food Chain and Dream Halls can win very easily with your commander in one turn. Note, you still have to pay commander tax for Dream Halls. Omniscience is a strong card, especially since we so readily get to 10 mana. If you can dig into a Time Warp, its typically forces a concession. Momir Vig, Simic Visionary on the battlefield before you cast Wanderer typically ends the game (search for Regal Behemoth, then Palinchron). Shaman of Forgotten Ways + board wipe also wins the game, although it costs a ton of mana. Animar, Soul of Elements is a fun plan-B.
6. The most important part of the deck, RAMP!
I want every ramp spell to give 2+ mana, so it isn't entirely useless to cascade into. I prefer to spread my ramp spells into different directions, so that it is much harder for any one spell to stop. Selvala, Heart of the Wild, Somberwald Sage, Shaman of Forgotten Ways, Joraga Treespeaker, and Lotus Cobra(+fetches!) are awesome creature options. Artifacts that make 3+ permanent mana (not Mana Vault, although I wouldn't fault you for playing it) and the usual Sol Ring + Mana Crypt and Trinket Mage. I like my land ramp to grab 2+ lands straight onto the battlefield, so I don't play Kodama's Reach and Cultivate, but I do play Hunting Wilds, Ranger's Path, and Skyshroud Claim (these get shocks, and duals). There are a few enchantment ramp spells that are harder to interact with that I especially love in my opening hand, like Carpet of Flowers (if your opponents are not playing blue, your odds of winning go way up) and Overgrowth (people don't generally strip mine you for this, they typically wait for Gaea's Cradle). Many competitive players don't like playing Tempt with Discovery, but I like it here because it can get many awesome lands, like the Cradle, Ancient Tomb, Academy Ruins, and Temple of the False God. Typically players don't take the deal, or just grab Strip Mine if they do. Planeswalkers like Dack Fayden and Xenagos, the Reveler are also strong ramp spells, because they are useful after they ramp, are decent to cascade into, and help you when you are behind in the early game.
There should be a special note about my absolute favorite ramp spell, Mana Drain. I understand that the card is somewhat out of budget for many players, but I cannot overstate how powerful it is in this deck. Yes, it is often a dead cascade if you don't have additional unused mana, but the option of using it in the first few turns is too good to pass up. Even bluffing the Drain when you don't have any other action is worth alot of value. If you have it, play it. Also in this category, Plasm Capture and Spelljack (Desertion and Æthersnatch don't really work how you want them to).
Well, that was much more long winded than I expected it to be.
I built mine with the plan that all nonlands should be cascadable from MW.
An idea I read of, but never executed, was to keep about 150 "possible" nonlands sleeved up, and at the start of each game, randomly deal yourself enough to make a deck and go from there. To be honest, if I can score another 50 matched sleeves, I may yet do this.
There should be a special note about my absolute favorite ramp spell, Mana Drain. I understand that the card is somewhat out of budget for many players, but I cannot overstate how powerful it is in this deck. Yes, it is often a dead cascade if you don't have additional unused mana, but the option of using it in the first few turns is too good to pass up. Even bluffing the Drain when you don't have any other action is worth alot of value. If you have it, play it. Also in this category, Plasm Capture and Spelljack (Desertion and Æthersnatch don't really work how you want them to).
On that note, you should be careful in general about what counters you do put in the deck, because cascading into Counterspell or similar is just a wasted cascade. Some counterspells are okay for cascading into (Spelljack, etc. as akroma44 mentions, and I also have Remand and Delay in my list), but you can also look into counterspells that are permanents, such as Glen Elendra Archmage, Ertai, Wizard Adept, and Lunar Force.
Pathbreaker Ibex brings the violence. It's a Craterhoof Behemoth you can cascade into, and offers a disgustingly quick clock (just him plus Wanderer is 28 trampling damage).
I don't want to net-deck it, because i feel like it wouldn't be MY deck i'm playing.
I want the deck to be able to do a variety of things, not really just focusing on one:
I'd like some advice on where to start, mostly with lands advice (more of dual lands), as well as ramping advice, with spells and mana rocks.
And hey, if you've got some ideas on what type of things to throw in there that would be fun, i'm all ears!
Thanks!
-Redd
RUJhoria and her Eldrazi posseRU
RUG(WIP) Maelstrom WandererRUG
Feel free to message me if you need something!
Bouncing Maelstrom Wanderer to recast from hand is cheaper than recasting from your command zone. Erratic Portal and Crystal Shard are both cheap and reusable.
Food Chain can get you a ridiculous amount of mana for re-casting from the command zone. It's not infinite and it might make your commander uncastable later, but it's an option.
Sun Quan, Lord of Wu is great for connecting for lethal general damage.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
RUJhoria and her Eldrazi posseRU
RUG(WIP) Maelstrom WandererRUG
Feel free to message me if you need something!
There are a lot of threads on maelstrom wanderer here. He's an exceedingly popular EDH General and is a very easy goodstuff.dec to build.
1. Play things you want.
2. Use permanents (especially creatures) over spells.
3. Use all the duals you have...?
If you really want to make it your own....
I was looking for along the lines of how many of each color combo.
but thanks for the link, i guess i'll look into the variety.
RUJhoria and her Eldrazi posseRU
RUG(WIP) Maelstrom WandererRUG
Feel free to message me if you need something!
It depends a lot on the colour make up of your deck. For my 3 colour decks I use as many as are applicable of: Shocks, check lands, tri land, Ravnica karoo and pain lands. If you can get fetches and/or ABU duals then use them. After that comes some utility lands then address balance with basics. Is your deck mostly green? use more forests than islands and mountains.
As for what to put into the deck you can usually just fill it with good stuff and manipulate your top deck a bit to make sure you dont just hit Counterspell on the Cascade. Animar, Soul of Elements is a worthwhile include for reducing the cast costs.
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern:
RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
Also, permanents that give you control options are pretty good, (Glen Elendra Archmage is the one that springs to mind for me).
http://www.commandercast.com/category/articles/generally-speaking
Follow me on Twitter: @generalspeak
I personally love the spell package that I run in my MW and prefer them over the few creatures that are in there. As far as lands I run 9 shocks, 6 duals, and 6 basics of each color only because I like equal proportions.
My MW deck is honestly a Wort, the Raidmother deck in disguise: a heavy focus on tokens and ramp spells, and wins by going wide with cards like Shared Animosity, Beastmaster Ascension, and Overrun effects. Blue is mainly a utility color for my build and mostly card draw, Time Warp, and clone effects since cloning Avenger of Zendikar or Chancelor of the Forge is kind of insane.
I even like to run janky cards like Spitting Image and Call of the Skybreaker to use up the excess lands I would draw.
Cryptolith Rite/Earthcraft is secret tech in my build since all of my tokens have haste for the former, leading me to get a Storm-Combo going as a backup plan in case I can't swing with my guys.
Turnabout as always is great for it's flexibility. If you want to swing without blockers, need mana to recast MW or just want to stall one of your opponents, it'll do.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
If you want to be able to compete with top tier decks, there are a few things that you need to consider:
1. Removal. You need efficient ways to interact with your opponents that are faster than you. Most versions of Wanderer that I have seen severely neglect this aspect of the game, and rely on the other players at the table to help them survive the early game. At your core you are a ramp deck with tons of bombs. Your biggest weaknesses are tax effects, land destruction, and Rule of Law effects, and your opponents know it. You need ways to stop other combo decks from winning before you. You need grave hate to stop reanimator/artifact/dredge decks. You need spot removal for those pesky stax pieces. Sometimes, a good ole' board reset is what you need more than anything else. Some of my favorite cards for this are Noxious Revival, Llawan, Cephalid Empress (stops many popular commanders, and relatively hard to clone), Dack Fayden, Gilded Drake and Decimate.
2. Despite diluting your potential cascades with removal spells (above), you need your proactive cards to be as impactful as possible. I typically want my cascades to either provide 2+ mana (so I can actively recast Wanderer again) or give me 3+ card advantage and advance my board state significantly. Draw spells need to get 5+ cards (Garruk, Primal Hunter, Arcanis the Omnipotent, Time Spiral, Seasons' Past, Recurring Insight). Attacking creatures should be able to end the game in 2 swings at most (Pathbreaker Ibex, Scourge of the Throne, Malignus, Void Winnower).
3. Time Warp effects are basically the most ideal cards to cascade into. This deck is more able to take advantage of an extra turn than any other that I've ever seen. You have the mana to cast it, you can take advantage of extra combat, and you have haste so you can just cast more bombs. Play 3-5 of these effects if possible.
4. Stax cards that help your game plan. As previously mentioned, there are many decks that are much faster than this one, and extremely able to hinder our early game development (or just kill us). Some good ways to stop them are with my favorite red enchantments Possibility Storm, Planar Chaos, and Stranglehold. Our deck is just naturally more able to take advantage of these 'symmetrical' effects than any other competitive deck. Our deck is full of more bombs, and we generally cast more spells. Also, these cards help us reach the mid-late game (turns 5-9), where this deck really shines. Also worth mentioning again: Llawan, Cephalid Empress, Void Winnower (works really well with Possibility Storm), Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger, Glen Elendra Archmage, Balefire Dragon, Rhystic Study, and Decimate.
5. The combo. There are several combo options we can go with in our colors, but given our creature-heavy playstyle and reliance on the Big Daddy Wanderer, the most effective ones all involve Palinchron. The stupid bird monster gets infinite mana with several other already useful cards: any mana doubling cards, Deadeye Navigator, Phantasmal Image, Cloudstone Curio + clone, and Gaea's Cradle with 5+ blue sources on lands and 6+ creatures. I'm sure there are others that I play in my deck, but I haven't had to use them.
Tooth and Nail can get you an easy win, grabbing one of those combos, or a bounce card + Eternal Witness + Time Warp. You can still pay the kicker if you cascade into it.
Food Chain and Dream Halls can win very easily with your commander in one turn. Note, you still have to pay commander tax for Dream Halls.
Omniscience is a strong card, especially since we so readily get to 10 mana. If you can dig into a Time Warp, its typically forces a concession.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary on the battlefield before you cast Wanderer typically ends the game (search for Regal Behemoth, then Palinchron).
Shaman of Forgotten Ways + board wipe also wins the game, although it costs a ton of mana.
Animar, Soul of Elements is a fun plan-B.
6. The most important part of the deck, RAMP!
I want every ramp spell to give 2+ mana, so it isn't entirely useless to cascade into. I prefer to spread my ramp spells into different directions, so that it is much harder for any one spell to stop. Selvala, Heart of the Wild, Somberwald Sage, Shaman of Forgotten Ways, Joraga Treespeaker, and Lotus Cobra(+fetches!) are awesome creature options. Artifacts that make 3+ permanent mana (not Mana Vault, although I wouldn't fault you for playing it) and the usual Sol Ring + Mana Crypt and Trinket Mage. I like my land ramp to grab 2+ lands straight onto the battlefield, so I don't play Kodama's Reach and Cultivate, but I do play Hunting Wilds, Ranger's Path, and Skyshroud Claim (these get shocks, and duals). There are a few enchantment ramp spells that are harder to interact with that I especially love in my opening hand, like Carpet of Flowers (if your opponents are not playing blue, your odds of winning go way up) and Overgrowth (people don't generally strip mine you for this, they typically wait for Gaea's Cradle). Many competitive players don't like playing Tempt with Discovery, but I like it here because it can get many awesome lands, like the Cradle, Ancient Tomb, Academy Ruins, and Temple of the False God. Typically players don't take the deal, or just grab Strip Mine if they do. Planeswalkers like Dack Fayden and Xenagos, the Reveler are also strong ramp spells, because they are useful after they ramp, are decent to cascade into, and help you when you are behind in the early game.
There should be a special note about my absolute favorite ramp spell, Mana Drain. I understand that the card is somewhat out of budget for many players, but I cannot overstate how powerful it is in this deck. Yes, it is often a dead cascade if you don't have additional unused mana, but the option of using it in the first few turns is too good to pass up. Even bluffing the Drain when you don't have any other action is worth alot of value. If you have it, play it. Also in this category, Plasm Capture and Spelljack (Desertion and Æthersnatch don't really work how you want them to).
Well, that was much more long winded than I expected it to be.
Cheers!
An idea I read of, but never executed, was to keep about 150 "possible" nonlands sleeved up, and at the start of each game, randomly deal yourself enough to make a deck and go from there. To be honest, if I can score another 50 matched sleeves, I may yet do this.
Apparently, Apocalypse is mean to cascade into.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
EDH:
Maelstrom Wanderer
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)