I was underwhelmed when the set was released, and considered it an average'ish looter effect mainly. But every time I see this card named Dragons, the deck playing it ends up delivering a beating. If somebody is leaving mana up, it's never budgeted enough to deal with anything of that players. Now, I find myself hoping whenever I see it that the player names Khans (which most of the time they do).
I'm just wondering if there's some unseen potential in the Dragons version. Is it a stretch to say that this is 80-90% of a Privileged Position or Grand Abolisher? If it's even close to that, then being a possible Looter il-Kor when it is most needed early would just seem to add value on top of that.
I've seen this thing put to some effective use in a Brago deck, and then later in a Derevi deck (that used Brago). The Brago deck would play this early when they could to filter through bad draws, and then when they had stuff worth protecting, they would flicker it with Brago and name Dragons to protect their board. The protection from Monastery Siege was supplemented by a GAAIV, a Thalia 1.0, and a few other tax effects. Brago would use the protection to build up inevitability from Elspeth, Sun's Champion, or Tamiyo 1.0, or some other planeswalker, or some good creature (Sun Titan on two triggers a turn or something like that).
In the Derevi deck, if fulfilled largely the same purpose, because the Derevi player would just tutor for Brago when they needed to switch from filtering draws to protecting their board.
Overall, I don't think you run this card unless you have some way to flicker it like the Brago player above, or you're an enchantress deck with access to blue spells (where it being a smaller, slightly more conditional Privileged Position goes a long way to protecting your enchantments that matter). I suppose you could also run it if you want a somewhat durable, repeatable loot effect. If none of those things describe your deck, however, you should slot something else in over this Siege.
Dragons is all I've ever chosen for Monastery Siege. I remember having to deal with Frost Titans in standard, so extending that ability to all my things seemed really good. Besides, slowing down an opponent is what blue is supposed to do, right?
I've seen this thing put to some effective use in a Brago deck, and then later in a Derevi deck (that used Brago). The Brago deck would play this early when they could to filter through bad draws, and then when they had stuff worth protecting, they would flicker it with Brago and name Dragons to protect their board. The protection from Monastery Siege was supplemented by a GAAIV, a Thalia 1.0, and a few other tax effects. Brago would use the protection to build up inevitability from Elspeth, Sun's Champion, or Tamiyo 1.0, or some other planeswalker, or some good creature (Sun Titan on two triggers a turn or something like that).
In the Derevi deck, if fulfilled largely the same purpose, because the Derevi player would just tutor for Brago when they needed to switch from filtering draws to protecting their board.
Overall, I don't think you run this card unless you have some way to flicker it like the Brago player above, or you're an enchantress deck with access to blue spells (where it being a smaller, slightly more conditional Privileged Position goes a long way to protecting your enchantments that matter). I suppose you could also run it if you want a somewhat durable, repeatable loot effect. If none of those things describe your deck, however, you should slot something else in over this Siege.
That seems the most likely use to me as well. Brago seems to be the first choice for Azorius, and here's one more card that's better with him than in the average deck.
Greater Auramancy is also available, but I suppose it doesn't have the option of filtering your draws early. That said, Greater Auramancy is a very sought-after card itself.
I always thought of it as more like an Aestheticism + Leyline of Sanctity but worse(/better?). I really like this card on this mode.
I play it in nearly every deck I have running blue, especially mono-U though. The best part is that it alleviates the pressure on your counters and let's you focus them on non-targeting spells like creatures or saving them for political moves like protecting another players board. Couple with cards like Propoganda it creates a nice little pillow fort in Mono-U. Its not imprenetrable but it really slows down people interacting with your board which enables you to build it up faster than they can tear it down. That's often just good enough. I even play it in the sideboard of a Mono-U deck in modern. Sure, its not Tier 1 but it can slow down Burn and removal heavy decks like Jund long enough to steal a win. Massively underrated IMO.
Honestly, all of the Sieges are good really good in Commander. I've pretty much made them staples in any deck that can run them. Both the modes are relevant on each Siege at one time or another in nearly any deck that can run them.
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Dragons is all I've ever chosen for Monastery Siege. I remember having to deal with Frost Titans in standard, so extending that ability to all my things seemed really good. Besides, slowing down an opponent is what blue is supposed to do, right?
Yep. It's no Privileged Position, but at two mana less, it's not supposed to be. Khans can be useful; I have played Ceta Sanctuary in Riku before, after all.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
It's more incidental protection than actual hexproof would be, of course - if something needs to die, your opponent will still pay the [2]. It does give your opponents incentive to not prioritize your things if there are multiple players' permanents that deserve attention, and that's always a plus.
I can think of plenty of situations where this would have saved my Winter Orb soft-locks from being broken, though.
I'm still playing Thassa as kind of a pet card in Brago. I'm starting to think this may be better.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing about Thassa, God of the Sea. I see her all the time in decks that don’t care about unblockability or devotion. And since every deck can probably put a couple cards in the graveyard, a loot every turn gives better selection on what you can get rid of than Scry. And a lot of decks will prefer the card in the grave to the card back in the library.
I suppose the only other difference would be the indestructibility versus the option of the Frost Titan effect. I’d say the protection effect weighs in as better.
It's more incidental protection than actual hexproof would be, of course - if something needs to die, your opponent will still pay the [2]. It does give your opponents incentive to not prioritize your things if there are multiple players' permanents that deserve attention, and that's always a plus.
I can think of plenty of situations where this would have saved my Winter Orb soft-locks from being broken, though.
I'm still playing Thassa as kind of a pet card in Brago. I'm starting to think this may be better.
In addition to just discouraging targeting, it can also delay a removal spell. Even if they are going to kill your creature, sometimes they are forced to wait until they have enough mana for something like Murder. Other times they have to decide between advancing their board and killing your stuff instead of doing both in the same turn. Its a tempo play in a format that normally doesn't care about tempo plays but its like a permanent tempo play. Combining it in Mono-U with things like Propaganda can be brutal when backed up with actual hard counters and things like Whelming Wave. It really slows your opponent's ability to interact/reduce your board state and then when they do, they get extra punished. Maybe 2cmc for something like Doom Blade only to get Counterspelled isn't so bad. 4cmc for a Doom Blade that gets Counterspelled is MUCH worse.
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I was underwhelmed when the set was released, and considered it an average'ish looter effect mainly. But every time I see this card named Dragons, the deck playing it ends up delivering a beating. If somebody is leaving mana up, it's never budgeted enough to deal with anything of that players. Now, I find myself hoping whenever I see it that the player names Khans (which most of the time they do).
I'm just wondering if there's some unseen potential in the Dragons version. Is it a stretch to say that this is 80-90% of a Privileged Position or Grand Abolisher? If it's even close to that, then being a possible Looter il-Kor when it is most needed early would just seem to add value on top of that.
Thoughts?
In the Derevi deck, if fulfilled largely the same purpose, because the Derevi player would just tutor for Brago when they needed to switch from filtering draws to protecting their board.
Overall, I don't think you run this card unless you have some way to flicker it like the Brago player above, or you're an enchantress deck with access to blue spells (where it being a smaller, slightly more conditional Privileged Position goes a long way to protecting your enchantments that matter). I suppose you could also run it if you want a somewhat durable, repeatable loot effect. If none of those things describe your deck, however, you should slot something else in over this Siege.
EDH Decks:
G Jugan
U Budget Jalira Battlecruiser
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
That seems the most likely use to me as well. Brago seems to be the first choice for Azorius, and here's one more card that's better with him than in the average deck.
Greater Auramancy is also available, but I suppose it doesn't have the option of filtering your draws early. That said, Greater Auramancy is a very sought-after card itself.
I play it in nearly every deck I have running blue, especially mono-U though. The best part is that it alleviates the pressure on your counters and let's you focus them on non-targeting spells like creatures or saving them for political moves like protecting another players board. Couple with cards like Propoganda it creates a nice little pillow fort in Mono-U. Its not imprenetrable but it really slows down people interacting with your board which enables you to build it up faster than they can tear it down. That's often just good enough. I even play it in the sideboard of a Mono-U deck in modern. Sure, its not Tier 1 but it can slow down Burn and removal heavy decks like Jund long enough to steal a win. Massively underrated IMO.
Honestly, all of the Sieges are good really good in Commander. I've pretty much made them staples in any deck that can run them. Both the modes are relevant on each Siege at one time or another in nearly any deck that can run them.
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Yep. It's no Privileged Position, but at two mana less, it's not supposed to be. Khans can be useful; I have played Ceta Sanctuary in Riku before, after all.
On phasing:
I can think of plenty of situations where this would have saved my Winter Orb soft-locks from being broken, though.
I'm still playing Thassa as kind of a pet card in Brago. I'm starting to think this may be better.
Draft my Peasant Cube.
I suppose the only other difference would be the indestructibility versus the option of the Frost Titan effect. I’d say the protection effect weighs in as better.
In addition to just discouraging targeting, it can also delay a removal spell. Even if they are going to kill your creature, sometimes they are forced to wait until they have enough mana for something like Murder. Other times they have to decide between advancing their board and killing your stuff instead of doing both in the same turn. Its a tempo play in a format that normally doesn't care about tempo plays but its like a permanent tempo play. Combining it in Mono-U with things like Propaganda can be brutal when backed up with actual hard counters and things like Whelming Wave. It really slows your opponent's ability to interact/reduce your board state and then when they do, they get extra punished. Maybe 2cmc for something like Doom Blade only to get Counterspelled isn't so bad. 4cmc for a Doom Blade that gets Counterspelled is MUCH worse.
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