How are people's experience with this card? Me and a forum-mate was talking about adding it into our Oros, the Avenger deck, which features tokens, white weenies, and death touch (often fueled by equipment). The second ability (Master Warcraft lite) seems to be a key to how smaller creatures can fare more effectively against the general goliath-laced EDH.
Dying to your own generals ability is sort of a nonbo, but the card is fairly mediocre. I imagine most of the time he is essentially a drain 5-8, but if you can draw him with 9 mana open he can swing the game open. I'd rather have more support type cards like Cathar's Crusade or Death Pact since it helps avoid extending into the inevitable wrath though.
Alongside other 3-color creatures from Fate Reforged, yeah.
That said, what kind of deck would you make if he is at the helm?
Probably some kind of token deck.
Yeah, this is one of those guys I wish didn't have hybrid mana so I could use him in Ghave or Oloro or Ayli just to join Blood Artist on the drain life train. But as he is, I'm sure Alesha is happy with him. Kaalia can use that activated ability too.
@genini2: What are you talking about? This guy won't make you die to your own general's ability. Also, I'm sure you mean Grave Pact, right?
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Dying to your own generals ability is sort of a nonbo, but the card is fairly mediocre. I imagine most of the time he is essentially a drain 5-8, but if you can draw him with 9 mana open he can swing the game open. I'd rather have more support type cards like Cathar's Crusade or Death Pact since it helps avoid extending into the inevitable wrath though.
Oros's ability is an option, not an requirement. If I get to activate Hordechief's ability at the right time, I wouldn't need to use Oros's ability to wipe the board, I just have to make my opponent block my deathtouch creatures.
Cards are dead things, players are the one that's alive and can adapt strategies to situations.
That said, the deck originated from Nahiri, the Lithomancer deck, so I too have Cathar's Crusade. Grave Pact is a nice bonus, so I have it as well, but mana can be tricky in three-colors where white dominate.
You wouldn't happen to have a deck list for this deck somewhere would you? I always loved the idea of a Mardu tokens deck and I'd like to see what someone who built such a deck is working with.
I think it could be worth while in any mardu deck where you are also playing Ankle Shanker. Lots of tokens and perhaps some light Grave Pact/ sac for profit methods for when your opponent tries to wipe.
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EDH BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern: RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
You wouldn't happen to have a deck list for this deck somewhere would you? I always loved the idea of a Mardu tokens deck and I'd like to see what someone who built such a deck is working with.
I'm currently making modifications base on Eldritch Moon. Sigarda's Aid, for one, is quite influential alongside other equipment/aura search. If the change result in a more permanent-related scheme, I may end up removing more spells. I'm also weighing the ratio of the deathtouch in my deck. My aforementioned forum-mate has a very DT heavy deck, I'm aiming for a more weenie direction, with some large utility creatures behind them.
I used him in my Alesha deck and he along side Hellrider provided great pressure. The deck played sort of like a Suicide deck and tried to race everyone on damage. As for his ability, I never used it but my opponents were always aware of it.
He would be a neat general, but the activation cost on that ability is pretty high.
I'm not really sold on the life gain + life loss part. The decks that would work best in would be mass token generators lead by Krenko, Mob Boss or Rhys the Redeemed, which are off color. Even a dega style token brew would feel pretty underwhelming, and would probably be looking for more lord effects to make their tokens meaningful over this bleed effect.
Perhaps if he were a lower-costed better tribal card like leeching sliver that part of his ability would seem more interesting.. but how many sliver decks do you see running leeching sliver?
The best part of him that I see is that he basically gives your worst creature lure so the rest of your team can get in. At that point why not just run nemesis mask?
I see him as a combination of three effects - drain, evasion, and fighting small opposing creatures. You overpay by a mile for each effect, but you do get all three on one card.
If you are only going for one, then run something like Hellrider, Ankle Shanker, or removal, depending on which it is that you want.
He can repeatedly make your team unblockable (save 1 creature) for 5 and that's not even taking into account the small but notable life swing when attacking. I don't particularly like decks in this wedge but I could see him putting in some work in and Alesha deck (even if he can't be effected by her ability). It's not a cheap package but for these colors 5 isn't too much to ask for mass evasion.
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EDH playing competitive Magic cast away
Current Decks GTitania midrange RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
The bad part about that, of course, is that you can’t force anything to attack, or who they attack. For one, you’re now counting on being able to pass with 5 mana up, this on board, and expect someone to ram their Sun Titan into a player with another Sun Titan. I’m going to go out on a limb to say that Hordechief will not likely give you this unbelievable trade on board.
Two, I have seen a good number of EDH decks that rarely if ever attack. Not just combo decks, but also Planeswalker decks, so on. You might find some kind of token blockers in these decks, but not any attackers to step into the trap in the first place.
Sure, if your deck isn't built to force people to attack, it may not come up. Especially in metas that are less combat dependent. But in any meta where attacking can happen, it's a useful thing to note for when it does come up. A number of decks in these colors will keep mana up anyways for Sunforger or other reactive solutions, like Wing Shards, or Boros Charm - especially if running black draw effects like Erebos, God of the Dead, and Succumb to Temptation.
Simply having this with the mana open can make any opponent wary of attacking, which may be a boon for a more defensively oriented deck.
I've had excellent success with Hellrider in a few decks, and this guy is like his older brother. It also plays well with Reconnaissance.
I've also been blown out by a well timed Master Warcraft from an opponent, and while you lose some of the surprise capabilities, as well as the "attack" decisions of it, the repeated use seems like it can be quite a potent tool.
How are people's experience with this card? Me and a forum-mate was talking about adding it into our Oros, the Avenger deck, which features tokens, white weenies, and death touch (often fueled by equipment). The second ability (Master Warcraft lite) seems to be a key to how smaller creatures can fare more effectively against the general goliath-laced EDH.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
Alongside other 3-color creatures from Fate Reforged, yeah.
That said, what kind of deck would you make if he is at the helm?
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Probably some kind of token deck.
Yeah, this is one of those guys I wish didn't have hybrid mana so I could use him in Ghave or Oloro or Ayli just to join Blood Artist on the drain life train. But as he is, I'm sure Alesha is happy with him. Kaalia can use that activated ability too.
@genini2: What are you talking about? This guy won't make you die to your own general's ability. Also, I'm sure you mean Grave Pact, right?
On phasing:
Oros's ability is an option, not an requirement. If I get to activate Hordechief's ability at the right time, I wouldn't need to use Oros's ability to wipe the board, I just have to make my opponent block my deathtouch creatures.
Cards are dead things, players are the one that's alive and can adapt strategies to situations.
That said, the deck originated from Nahiri, the Lithomancer deck, so I too have Cathar's Crusade. Grave Pact is a nice bonus, so I have it as well, but mana can be tricky in three-colors where white dominate.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern:
RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
I'm currently making modifications base on Eldritch Moon. Sigarda's Aid, for one, is quite influential alongside other equipment/aura search. If the change result in a more permanent-related scheme, I may end up removing more spells. I'm also weighing the ratio of the deathtouch in my deck. My aforementioned forum-mate has a very DT heavy deck, I'm aiming for a more weenie direction, with some large utility creatures behind them.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
I'm not really sold on the life gain + life loss part. The decks that would work best in would be mass token generators lead by Krenko, Mob Boss or Rhys the Redeemed, which are off color. Even a dega style token brew would feel pretty underwhelming, and would probably be looking for more lord effects to make their tokens meaningful over this bleed effect.
Perhaps if he were a lower-costed better tribal card like leeching sliver that part of his ability would seem more interesting.. but how many sliver decks do you see running leeching sliver?
The best part of him that I see is that he basically gives your worst creature lure so the rest of your team can get in. At that point why not just run nemesis mask?
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
If you are only going for one, then run something like Hellrider, Ankle Shanker, or removal, depending on which it is that you want.
Current Decks
GTitania midrange
RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal
GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron
U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher
RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Two, I have seen a good number of EDH decks that rarely if ever attack. Not just combo decks, but also Planeswalker decks, so on. You might find some kind of token blockers in these decks, but not any attackers to step into the trap in the first place.
Simply having this with the mana open can make any opponent wary of attacking, which may be a boon for a more defensively oriented deck.
I've had excellent success with Hellrider in a few decks, and this guy is like his older brother. It also plays well with Reconnaissance.
I've also been blown out by a well timed Master Warcraft from an opponent, and while you lose some of the surprise capabilities, as well as the "attack" decisions of it, the repeated use seems like it can be quite a potent tool.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek