MTG Salvation

Hi everyone,

I recently put together a Zada, Hedron Grinder deck, and it's exactly as bonkers as I hoped it would be. The one thing I've already noticed though is that without Zada, the deck is really bad. It's not going to take the people I play with long to realize that if they deal with Zada right away, I'm pretty much harmless. Outside of Swiftfoot Boots, Champion's Helm, and Darksteel Plate, do any other Zada pilots have suggestions on how to keep him alive long enough to do his thing?

Thanks!

Nim Deathmantle?

This site needs to fix it's tagging system for mobile.

If your build is a midrangey build that has time to build up a bit, then your equipment is fine. However, mine is more storm-based and tries to go off as soon as possible before people have much chance to do anything about it. This is the thread mine is based on.

So these are some things I use to protect Zada:
Command Beacon helps lower the cost of re-casting her.
Cavern of Souls helps keep her from being countered.
Goblin Chirurgeon can keep her from being destroyed.
Flaring Pain helps avoid falling on my face due to a Fog or Comeuppance.

Spells like Pyroblast may be relevant in your meta, too.

I'll try to remember to look through the thread above later for other things people have tried, but it might help knowing what your build is. The only other thing I found really is Ally Encampment to bounce her to hand, but it doesn't fit well in my build.

I'm surprised that no one mentioned Lightning Greaves yet. I thought that that card was the first pick for evasion for just about any commander?

It shuts down Zada's ability.

Quote from mrhathaway »

I'm surprised that no one mentioned Lightning Greaves yet. I thought that that card was the first pick for evasion for just about any commander?

Yes, please. All Zada players should equip her with Lightning Greaves. Do that.

I use Cavern of Souls to stop her from getting countered, Command Beacon to return her to hand, and Goblin Chirurgeon to protect her on-board. A ton of rituals also helps, since you'll want them to chain spells after cantripping anyway.

Another fun thing to add in would be Price of Glory. It says "no" to just about all forms of instant speed things that would ruin the fun.

I used to love this card, and I am now more than aware of how incredibly situational it is, but shunt could be an out to targeted removal. It hurts being at 3-mana, even an imp's mischief seems better at 2-mana, but if your opponents are to the point where they mulligan until they have early spot-removal, then shunt can help.

I haven't played any Zada decks before, but it seems to me the most effective way to dodge spot removal is to save casting Zada until you can cast him and then follow up with a cantrip. Short of counterspells, there's nothing a player can do to keep you from refilling your hand if you cast Zada and then immediately cast a cantrip targeting him.

If you're playing him "fairly" (e.g. no infinite combos), dumping out token-producing creatures and then getting a free five-mana fill-your-hand effect to be able to continue dumping out token-producing creatures seems like a pretty solid game plan. Someone kill him? Oh well, by the time you run out of cards, you'll be able to re-cast him as a seven-mana fill-your-hand effect.

Zada is a female goblin, by the way. FYI

Quote from gilrad »

I haven't played any Zada decks before, but it seems to me the most effective way to dodge spot removal is to save casting Zada until you can cast him and then follow up with a cantrip. Short of counterspells, there's nothing a player can do to keep you from refilling your hand if you cast Zada and then immediately cast a cantrip targeting him.

If you're playing him "fairly" (e.g. no infinite combos), dumping out token-producing creatures and then getting a free five-mana fill-your-hand effect to be able to continue dumping out token-producing creatures seems like a pretty solid game plan. Someone kill him? Oh well, by the time you run out of cards, you'll be able to re-cast him as a seven-mana fill-your-hand effect.

Yes, that is usually the plan. Cast Zada and have a bit of mana left over for a cantrip/ritual-into-cantrip to keep going rather than wait for your next turn while she sits out there. I don't know about "fair", though. That's pretty subjective for a deck that has such ridiculous synergy without infinite combos that when it goes off it can easily do thousands of damage at instant speed and more in combat (my record with a previous build was 72 billion trillion combat damage). At that point, killing with infinite Dualcaster Mages is just anticlimactic.

I run a Zada deck, and I don't actually have any direct protection for her, though I might give Goblin Chirurgeon a shot. I definitely agree with gilrad in saying not to cast her until I can get at least one mass cantrip off, and I have a good number of rituals in the deck (as they synergise well with the overall strategy) which do help getting her out again if she does get killed.

Thanks everyone for the advice.

As I've tested, it looks like the 'don't play Zada until you are ready to go bananas' is the best way to play the deck. If someone counters, just hold fire for another turn or two.

Quote from lyonhaert »

Yes, that is usually the plan. Cast Zada and have a bit of mana left over for a cantrip/ritual-into-cantrip to keep going rather than wait for your next turn while she sits out there. I don't know about "fair", though. That's pretty subjective for a deck that has such ridiculous synergy without infinite combos that when it goes off it can easily do thousands of damage at instant speed and more in combat (my record with a previous build was 72 billion combat damage). At that point, killing with infinite Dualcaster Mages is just anticlimactic.

Yeah you're right, using infinite combos as a measurement for fair or unfair is a bit wrong in the context of Zada. I guess a better way of putting it is "instant kill or slow kill".

i.e. if you're slow killing, you don't mind spending five or six mana just to draw ten cards to refill your hand, since you can continue dropping more tokens and threats next turn, even if Zada dies. Then when you run out of cards or need to dig, just cast her again. It's as if you're playing blue and have access to multiple Recurring Insights.

If you're instant killing however, you really don't want Zada to be vulnerable, especially in the middle of your spell chains where someone could kill her in response to a ritual and leave you hanging with a sixteen storm count and not enough mana to get the mass pump or mass haste off that would allow you to kill the table. Counterspelling your commander could also set you back a turn or two, which might be a go-to play once people realize that the deck literally does nothing without Zada to enable the hand refills. Having to recast at six mana (or, heaven forbid, eight) would be a terrible situation to be in at tables where games are decided by around turn 6 or 10.

Yeah, that's why I try to decide the game by turn 4 or 5. And I have several ways to kill at instant speed if something ends up on the stack that I don't want to let resolve (Pia and Kiran Nalaar, Mogg Fanatic/Spikeshot Elder, Siege-Gang Commander, Firestorm). Also Final Fortune if I'm confident and Flaring Pain for insurance.

And as far as instant-speed stuff like this: if something is sitting on the stack like that, you usually only need to take out the controlling player instead of all players so that the spell/effect leaves the stack. Then win with combat probably. However, I once had to win with a pumped up Spikeshot Elder with several instances of Overblaze because I did a cantrip with 2 more creatures than I had cards in my deck. Held my entire deck but had 2 card draws on the stack I had to avoid, so I was limited to instants.