Over the years I have slowly transitioned from a Control player to a Combo player and occasionally, I will mix the two. Unfortunately, for myself and my playgroup...when I build a combo deck, I tend to pick the best combo generals and try to make them as fast and optimized as possible. I have played Moxnix's list for Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge in the past, dabbled in Animar Soul of Elements, Azami, Lady of Scrolls, and Arcum Dagsson.
I am looking for some ideas for 75% combo decks that can be casual with my friends and be able to sit at a competitive table if needed.
Please, no storm combo ideas like Moxnix's list or anything that involves Animar. My friends don't like me Goldfishing.
There's a number of combo decks I've played and enjoyed that are decidedly not top-tier. Off the top of my head: DoomsdayGrenzo, Dungeon Warden Wort the RaidmotherWarp World - with plenty of EWit effects, see if you can create a situation where you return Warp World every time you cast it. Fun deck to build in terms of balancing spells to copy while keeping your your Warp Worlds net positive. Trostani, Selesnya's Voice - Archangel of Thune + Spike Feeder, KarmicLark loops - green has a ton of good creature tutors, of course, but you're playing GW, how good can the deck really be? Nim Deathmantle + Ashnod's Altar + Creature that makes tokens - playable with pretty much any Commander, but I liked Sek'kuar, Deathkeeper a lot. Got to do fun things like Buried Alive for Bloodghast and Squee, Goblin Nabob with some sacrifice-for-value cards with a combo finish.
My Azami list is specifically designed to be powerful, but not oppressive. Granted it is meant to be more casual to MY particular meta so I don't know how it would be taken by your play group. Just glancing at the list should be enough for you to get a general idea of that though I too am a lover of combo decks
An entire family of combo decks is "big spell" combo, which involves game plans centered around resolving something like Enduring Ideal, Tooth and Nail, or Obliterate. You can spend the early game interacting and building up mana, and when you pull the trigger there is usually no "goldfishing" involved. Maybe try something along those lines?
If you know the combo you want to play, you can build the deck to run for the combo, but degrade the quality of combo-enabling effects (draw/tutor/ramp/duplicate combo parts). This isn't really the best of ideas, since you will constantly realize how close you were to a combo-win due to poor card quality, but it works against financially strained opponents. Swapping demonic tutor for increasing ambition, grim monolith for worn powerstone, etc.
Alternatively you could lower the number of those cards, so you see the enablers less frequent. Add more generic good-stuff fluff like creatures, defensive spells, or removal. Add more interaction to the combo deck so you can participate in the game in different ways. Something amusing like praetor's grasp/grab the reins/bribery/rite of replication/etc, that can act as pretty good utility that works outside of your combo.
build 3 card combos (not including the commander) or do it the hard way:
I came here to say this. If its really casual/75% it should be 3 parts and minimal tutors. Redundancy is a good idea but 2 cards kinda smacks of higher-competitive. Or two card without tutors.
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My Combo Commander (although it seems like all of them) The one that wins through combo the most would be Prossh, Skyraider of Kher He wins through multiple sac engines and bringing stuff back. My other decks are Avacyn Attrition (RW) and Xira (LD)
The other part to 75% combos is to not make them "instant win" combos, but combos that do things like give you 100,000 creatures (without haste). This gives people a round to try and respond to it before you win the game.
Maybe instead of dragging a high tier commander down to a certain level you could look for a fairly limited commander and build him at 90-100%.
That's something that I have been working with lately. My current project is U/B combo zombies with Grimgrin.. which is going okay. I lose more than I win which is a start. The other is U/R spellslinger that just tries to get like through resolving a huge Epic Experiment or Mind's Desire.
I'm making mine in mono-red w/ Kurkesh. Lots of 2 card combos but none involve the commander, and have no way to reliably tutor them or heck, even to draw them.
I also make sure everyone at the table knows this is an infinite combo deck.
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EDH RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
I don't think that combo is at odds with the 75% ideal at all. There are people who think that any manner of abrupt win, at any point of the game, no matter how improbable, is unethical by rule. But, I don't think those people have a home within a 75% game.
To make sure that it stays interactive, I'd just avoid a few things. One, the goal to go off before Turn 6. Two, the ability to go off even when facing Instant speed Creature removal, such as a stack-based combo like Mind's Desire or Reiterate. Three, any two-card combo's with the general (Teferi, Niv-Mizzix, Azami, Sharuum, Prossh).
I think it should be the expectation in 75% games that you will need an instant speed answer to creatures to stop combo.
Hate to Necro(?) a thread but I have a Teysa, Orzhov Scion Humanimator deck using Angel of Glory's Rise, Cartel Aristocrat, and Fiend Hunter. Its a 3-card combo that does nothing by itself but with the assistance of something like Death Cultist, Highway Robber, etc. it can go infinite and win. It has a few ways of setting up, mostly by filling the 'yard through things like Buried Alive but cards like Artisan of Kozilek give it a semi-powerful Reanmiator good stuff feel. I think it perfectly fits into the combo and 75% strategy. The combo isn't hard to put together and its not immune to disruption but has plenty of interaction and game outside of just "trigger the combo". Angel of Glory's Rise can even just be an incredible value card as well so its not useless outside the combo in a dedicated human tribal deck.
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Or you can just make it difficult to assemble with no tutors, relying on card draw, and RNG into it.
A side effect of doing either is that you are actually much harder to disrupt as you have fewer cards that "do nothing" unless another specific card is there...
Or you can just make it difficult to assemble with no tutors, relying on card draw, and RNG into it.
A side effect of doing either is that you are actually much harder to disrupt as you have fewer cards that "do nothing" unless another specific card is there...
I think this illustrates why I like the Angel of Glory's Rise combo. People are really quick to write it off but its a potent combo that has a lot of win conditions and everyone single one of them is FAR more inconspicuous than what most people suggest as 75%. Its "tuned" with tutors and all but no single piece of the combo is nearly as potent as anything you've suggested. The deck I run is basically a B/W Reanimator control with a combo finisher using creatures no one would think to interact with until they are dead.
I will say it is probably better for more casual metas than what most people play with but with enough tutors, and a little time, it can even beat more competitive decks by simply flying under the radar and uses its control elements to set up the win.
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I recently rebuilt my Oona, Queen of the Fae deck from a glass-cannon fast combo Doomsday deck into a more midrangey combo/control faerie theme deck. Its been doing very well for itself for a couple months.
I'd say a 75% combo deck is perfectly viable. The key to building it is making sure the deck has lots of things to do other than combo. Pack the deck with lots of draw instead of tutors, so you have to draw into those combo pieces instead of grabbing them on turn 4. This forces you to interact with the board while waiting for the combo to come up.
I recently rebuilt my Oona, Queen of the Fae deck from a glass-cannon fast combo Doomsday deck into a more midrangey combo/control faerie theme deck. Its been doing very well for itself for a couple months.
I'd say a 75% combo deck is perfectly viable. The key to building it is making sure the deck has lots of things to do other than combo. Pack the deck with lots of draw instead of tutors, so you have to draw into those combo pieces instead of grabbing them on turn 4. This forces you to interact with the board while waiting for the combo to come up.
yep defo this!
having said that though, in my experience, a couple of impulse effects makes me not look nearly as scary as the mono-black guy who tutors all day long, but my hand-sculpting, if anything, is probably better than his, since i can filter away dirge and keep cards i think would be useful in the future/draw multiple combo pieces/protection..
in terms of actual combos, have you seen the turbo-great wall combo?
its a 12 (i think?) card combo that takes multiple turns, and is somewhat fragile. props to mr dosu for creating what is the most broken combo in all of magic. that, i think, must fall under the 75% principles, right?
I am looking for some ideas for 75% combo decks that can be casual with my friends and be able to sit at a competitive table if needed.
Please, no storm combo ideas like Moxnix's list or anything that involves Animar. My friends don't like me Goldfishing.
If you want to try and make it work, you need to have no tutors and take 4+ cards to combo off.
Another alternative is to play engines rather than combos. thopter foundry + sword of the meek is strong, but mostly fine.
Doomsday Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
Wort the Raidmother Warp World - with plenty of EWit effects, see if you can create a situation where you return Warp World every time you cast it. Fun deck to build in terms of balancing spells to copy while keeping your your Warp Worlds net positive.
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice - Archangel of Thune + Spike Feeder, KarmicLark loops - green has a ton of good creature tutors, of course, but you're playing GW, how good can the deck really be?
Nim Deathmantle + Ashnod's Altar + Creature that makes tokens - playable with pretty much any Commander, but I liked Sek'kuar, Deathkeeper a lot. Got to do fun things like Buried Alive for Bloodghast and Squee, Goblin Nabob with some sacrifice-for-value cards with a combo finish.
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Alternatively you could lower the number of those cards, so you see the enablers less frequent. Add more generic good-stuff fluff like creatures, defensive spells, or removal. Add more interaction to the combo deck so you can participate in the game in different ways. Something amusing like praetor's grasp/grab the reins/bribery/rite of replication/etc, that can act as pretty good utility that works outside of your combo.
Links to my most current deck lists;
Primary EDH; Rakka Mar Token Perfection, Crosis Mnemonic Betrayal, Cromat Villainous, Judith Gravestorm, Rakdos Empty Storm, Exava Artifacts, Bant Trash, & Fumiko Voltron!
EDH kept at home; Ruzzian Isset & Rakdos LoR!
EDH (nostalgic/pimp/retired) in storage;
Latulla Burns, Akroma Smash, Jeska Voltron, Rakdos Storm, Bladewing Darghans, Lyzolda Worldgorger, Xantcha Steals your Heart, Jori Storm, Wydwen Permission, Gwendlyn Paradox, Jeleva Warps, & Sigarda Brick!
Legacy Showanimator and High Tide!
It also has splinter twin/kiki-jiki, mirror breaker with deceiver exarch, pestermite, zealous conscripts
Oh, and dualcaster mage with heat shimmer/twinflame/rite of replication.
A side combo of this is Nucklavee/archaeomancer with omniscience and with heat shimmer/twinflame/rite of replication.
Other cool combos in the deck are willbreaker with curse of the swine/descent of the dragons, but it's far from an auto-win combo like the above. Oh, and Mizzix's mastery is a combo all by itself.
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Maybe instead of dragging a high tier commander down to a certain level you could look for a fairly limited commander and build him at 90-100%.
That's something that I have been working with lately. My current project is U/B combo zombies with Grimgrin.. which is going okay. I lose more than I win which is a start. The other is U/R spellslinger that just tries to get like through resolving a huge Epic Experiment or Mind's Desire.
I also make sure everyone at the table knows this is an infinite combo deck.
RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck
RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
Arena Standard
UUUU Tempo, since before it was cool
Various Wx decks running Fountain of Renewal and Day of Glory
Anything I can cram Chaos Wand in to
To make sure that it stays interactive, I'd just avoid a few things. One, the goal to go off before Turn 6. Two, the ability to go off even when facing Instant speed Creature removal, such as a stack-based combo like Mind's Desire or Reiterate. Three, any two-card combo's with the general (Teferi, Niv-Mizzix, Azami, Sharuum, Prossh).
I think it should be the expectation in 75% games that you will need an instant speed answer to creatures to stop combo.
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e.g.
1) infinite tokens but no haste enablers
2) sorcery speed combos only that require a couple turns of setup
UW Ephara Hatebears [Primer], GB Gitrog Lands, BRU Inalla Combo-Control, URG Maelstrom Wanderer Landfall
Doing 20 damage to everyone after casting Prossh, Skyraider of Kher or Avenger of Zendikar isn't a big deal because it is survivable and isn't game ending, I mean its a lot but it isn't infinite damage a lot. Think in terms of resolving Rise of the Dark Realms, Insurrection, Storm Herd, Clone Legion or Ezuri's Predation for the end result of the "combo". Those don't win you the game, but the following turn if unanswered, you probably won...
Or you can just make it difficult to assemble with no tutors, relying on card draw, and RNG into it.
A side effect of doing either is that you are actually much harder to disrupt as you have fewer cards that "do nothing" unless another specific card is there...
I think this illustrates why I like the Angel of Glory's Rise combo. People are really quick to write it off but its a potent combo that has a lot of win conditions and everyone single one of them is FAR more inconspicuous than what most people suggest as 75%. Its "tuned" with tutors and all but no single piece of the combo is nearly as potent as anything you've suggested. The deck I run is basically a B/W Reanimator control with a combo finisher using creatures no one would think to interact with until they are dead.
I will say it is probably better for more casual metas than what most people play with but with enough tutors, and a little time, it can even beat more competitive decks by simply flying under the radar and uses its control elements to set up the win.
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I'd say a 75% combo deck is perfectly viable. The key to building it is making sure the deck has lots of things to do other than combo. Pack the deck with lots of draw instead of tutors, so you have to draw into those combo pieces instead of grabbing them on turn 4. This forces you to interact with the board while waiting for the combo to come up.
Nicol Bolas Dragon Dick
Hanna, Ship's Navigator Heart-attack Stax
Oona, Queen of the Fae Fairy Dance
Vhati Il-Dal Tree of Woe
Scion of the Ur-Dragon Durgensturm
Jolrael, Empress of Beasts Jamuraa's Army
Liliana, Heretical Healer Rise from your Graves and Proliferate
Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Angelic Judgment [
yep defo this!
having said that though, in my experience, a couple of impulse effects makes me not look nearly as scary as the mono-black guy who tutors all day long, but my hand-sculpting, if anything, is probably better than his, since i can filter away dirge and keep cards i think would be useful in the future/draw multiple combo pieces/protection..
in terms of actual combos, have you seen the turbo-great wall combo?
You play Jackal Pup, Donate it to your opponent, and play Muzzle and Farrel's Mantle on it. Then you play Aysen Highway and use the Balduvian Shaman to make all red creatures gain plainswalk. Finally, play Grand Melee, Mossdog, and Chronatog. Play Coalition Flag on the Mossdog and start skipping turns. Each turn, your opponent must attack with the Jackal Pup, which is unblockable because you control a plains, and target the Mossdog with Jackal Pup ability, giving Mossdog a +1/+1 counter. When Mossdog is at least 20/20, take a turn to play Obelisk of Undoingand bounce Muzzle. Afterwards, it is time to play the game-winner, Great Wall (which is why the combo is called turbo-great wall). Next turn, your opponent must attack into your Mossdog, which can now block it due to the all-powerful Great Wall, killing your opponent with Jackal Pup ability.
its a 12 (i think?) card combo that takes multiple turns, and is somewhat fragile. props to mr dosu for creating what is the most broken combo in all of magic. that, i think, must fall under the 75% principles, right?
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