So, in one of my playgroups, it has become apparent to me that craterhoof is too strong for them to handle. My current build is basically to play super value creatures and answer threats while i ramp onto one of my big top end win conditions. However, craterhoof has proven too effective for them to reliably handle (no one plays counterspells but me) so I'm looking for a single card to swap it out for when im playing against them. My deck is extremely reliable at finding a craterhoof when i need it, and i have no desire to alter anything else since the deck is fine in my other playgroups
So, basically, what are your guys suggestions for a card to put in place of craterhoof? Needs to be something that is capable of running away with the game very quickly, since this is the slot devoted to my primary win condition, but won't just won the game on the spot every time it hits the field?
Beastmaster Ascension doesn't grant trample so they can block for a turn or two while looking for an answer.
Tooth and nail into Xenagos, God of Revels and some large beater or eldrazi can really run away with the game aswell but usually doesn't kill on the spot.
Avenger of Zendikar coupled with landramp can also run away with the game but doesn't ill everyone on the spot.
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Beastmaster Ascension doesn't grant trample so they can block for a turn or two while looking for an answer.
Tooth and nail into Xenagos, God of Revels and some large beater or eldrazi can really run away with the game aswell but usually doesn't kill on the spot.
Avenger of Zendikar coupled with landramp can also run away with the game but doesn't ill everyone on the spot.
i currently have avenger in my list already, perhaps i should have simply posted my list
xenagos isnt a bad idea, but it would make my deck feel very similar (and possibly strictly better) than the mayel deck in that group
ascension is off the table since my deck is built to find creatures, not enchantments, and that would require retooling my deck to actually be able to proc it reliably
Maybe Márton Stromgald? Doesn't give trample and buys them an extra turn to respond, and he's awesome ofcourse :). Or is that too powered down?
hmmmmmm thats a possibility, i have him in marchesa....
really not sure about if its too powered down or not, as the problem with 'hoof isn't that he is "too powerful" persay (we have meren combo, mayel cheat fatties into play, and sen triplets artifact controlishy esper goodstuff, so they also do powerful things), but that there is 0 way for them to actually interact with craterhoof, as once it hits the field i have lethal, so giving them a turn to answer my board might just do it
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa gives you a repeatable Overrun on a creature, plus wrath protection in the form of a rattlesnake: if your opponent is going to destroy all creatures, you can turn their lands into creatures in response.
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa gives you a repeatable Overrun on a creature, plus wrath protection in the form of a rattlesnake: if your opponent is going to destroy all creatures, you can turn their lands into creatures in response.
That sounds hilarious! I do obviously worry that they would become very unhappy with me if i turn their wipe into a one sided Armageddon
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa gives you a repeatable Overrun on a creature, plus wrath protection in the form of a rattlesnake: if your opponent is going to destroy all creatures, you can turn their lands into creatures in response.
That sounds hilarious! I do obviously worry that they would become very unhappy with me if i turn their wipe into a one sided Armageddon
I mean you don't have to, but the option is there. Kamahl's first ability can also be used to give you extra reach or chump blockers. You can also use it politically to let one opponent have chump blockers against another opponent.
So, in one of my playgroups, it has become apparent to me that craterhoof is too strong for them to handle. My current build is basically to play super value creatures and answer threats while i ramp onto one of my big top end win conditions. However, craterhoof has proven too effective for them to reliably handle (no one plays counterspells but me) so I'm looking for a single card to swap it out for when im playing against them. My deck is extremely reliable at finding a craterhoof when i need it, and i have no desire to alter anything else since the deck is fine in my other playgroups
So, basically, what are your guys suggestions for a card to put in place of craterhoof? Needs to be something that is capable of running away with the game very quickly, since this is the slot devoted to my primary win condition, but won't just won the game on the spot every time it hits the field?
can we get a list so that nothing is mentioned that is already in your deck?
because you probably have maelstrom wanderer which would be my suggestion copying it basically means putting 1 beater(legend rule) on the field that gives haste and a potential 4 more spells cast.
So, in one of my playgroups, it has become apparent to me that craterhoof is too strong for them to handle. My current build is basically to play super value creatures and answer threats while i ramp onto one of my big top end win conditions. However, craterhoof has proven too effective for them to reliably handle (no one plays counterspells but me) so I'm looking for a single card to swap it out for when im playing against them. My deck is extremely reliable at finding a craterhoof when i need it, and i have no desire to alter anything else since the deck is fine in my other playgroups
So, basically, what are your guys suggestions for a card to put in place of craterhoof? Needs to be something that is capable of running away with the game very quickly, since this is the slot devoted to my primary win condition, but won't just won the game on the spot every time it hits the field?
can we get a list so that nothing is mentioned that is already in your deck?
because you probably have maelstrom wanderer which would be my suggestion copying it basically means putting 1 beater(legend rule) on the field that gives haste and a potential 4 more spells cast.
Maelstrom is a great dude but you won't get 4 spells. the cascade is an on-cast trigger and copying the critter won't trigger it.
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So, in one of my playgroups, it has become apparent to me that craterhoof is too strong for them to handle. My current build is basically to play super value creatures and answer threats while i ramp onto one of my big top end win conditions. However, craterhoof has proven too effective for them to reliably handle (no one plays counterspells but me) so I'm looking for a single card to swap it out for when im playing against them. My deck is extremely reliable at finding a craterhoof when i need it, and i have no desire to alter anything else since the deck is fine in my other playgroups
So, basically, what are your guys suggestions for a card to put in place of craterhoof? Needs to be something that is capable of running away with the game very quickly, since this is the slot devoted to my primary win condition, but won't just won the game on the spot every time it hits the field?
can we get a list so that nothing is mentioned that is already in your deck?
because you probably have maelstrom wanderer which would be my suggestion copying it basically means putting 1 beater(legend rule) on the field that gives haste and a potential 4 more spells cast.
Maelstrom Wanderer is a good value card, but is useless to copy, not only is it legendary, so only one will remain, but the copy won't trigger the cascades because it wasn't cast.
Pathbreaker Ibex is a very fun card though, it is one of those creatures that must be answered or everyone dies, giving it haste just makes everything better.
So, in one of my playgroups, it has become apparent to me that craterhoof is too strong for them to handle. My current build is basically to play super value creatures and answer threats while i ramp onto one of my big top end win conditions. However, craterhoof has proven too effective for them to reliably handle (no one plays counterspells but me) so I'm looking for a single card to swap it out for when im playing against them. My deck is extremely reliable at finding a craterhoof when i need it, and i have no desire to alter anything else since the deck is fine in my other playgroups
So, basically, what are your guys suggestions for a card to put in place of craterhoof? Needs to be something that is capable of running away with the game very quickly, since this is the slot devoted to my primary win condition, but won't just won the game on the spot every time it hits the field?
can we get a list so that nothing is mentioned that is already in your deck?
because you probably have maelstrom wanderer which would be my suggestion copying it basically means putting 1 beater(legend rule) on the field that gives haste and a potential 4 more spells cast.
dont run wanderer since a lot of the times my 6-8 drops end up on the field without getting cast
So, in one of my playgroups, it has become apparent to me that craterhoof is too strong for them to handle. My current build is basically to play super value creatures and answer threats while i ramp onto one of my big top end win conditions. However, craterhoof has proven too effective for them to reliably handle (no one plays counterspells but me) so I'm looking for a single card to swap it out for when im playing against them. My deck is extremely reliable at finding a craterhoof when i need it, and i have no desire to alter anything else since the deck is fine in my other playgroups
So, basically, what are your guys suggestions for a card to put in place of craterhoof? Needs to be something that is capable of running away with the game very quickly, since this is the slot devoted to my primary win condition, but won't just won the game on the spot every time it hits the field?
Pathbreaker Ibex is what Craterhoof should have been. It has the power to get out of hand quickly, but still allows for some time for them to respond. You can shortcut that time by adding haste, but if you have a haste outlet on the board, people should be expecting death at any time. It also plays nice with Riku and doubling in general.
Kessig Cagebreakers is another fun card to toss into a riku deck, especially if you run Parallel Lives and/or Doubling Season. Podding an Anger into a cagebreakers, with copy, with parallel out, is quite potent, and far more amusing than a Craterhoof kill. If Pod is too strong, cagebreakers alone should pose a significant, yet answerable, threat.
Likewise, I have been a fan of Hellrider in my Riku build. Once you get a few copies out, he gets scary fast. Simply casting Hellirider, with copy, +parallel lives, into a clone, with copy, +parallel lives, for 6 hellriders... that's 36 to the face on attack declaration, before anything even hits home. And that's not counting riku on the swing, or any other tokens/creatures.
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa gives you a repeatable Overrun on a creature, plus wrath protection in the form of a rattlesnake: if your opponent is going to destroy all creatures, you can turn their lands into creatures in response.
That sounds hilarious! I do obviously worry that they would become very unhappy with me if i turn their wipe into a one sided Armageddon
Kamahl is awesome. And don't think of him so much as MLD, but rather as wrath prevention. If someone goes to cast Wrath of God when I have Kamahl out and mana up, I always point out what the consequences will be and offer them a takeback rather than just saying "Gotcha!" (the rest of the table needs to be okay with the takeback too though. Of course, if someone vetos the takeback, you can always punish them by hitting some of their lands as well).
Also, he turns any direct damage spell into spot land removal for problem lands without you having to run any dedicated land removal spells in your deck.
Finally, don't overlook the fact that his internal synergy can sometimes turn a not-quite-there overrun attack into a viable alpha strike.
Of course, I also run pyroclasm in my deck that has Kamahl, so I'm not above being a dick.
Maelstrom is a great dude but you won't get 4 spells. the cascade is an on-cast trigger and copying the critter won't trigger it.
Assuming you cascade into instants, sorceries, or creatures, Riku can copy the stuff you cascade into.
True, that is not "4 more spells to cast" though. So I thought I'd clear that up to avoid misunderstadnings regarding how it works.
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Although it's already been mentioned a few times, I'd recommend Pathbreaker Ibex. Waiting a turn to lose summoning sickness provides your opponents with an opportunity to interact with your cards and feel less like they've lost out of nowhere. Wild Beastmaster is a similar card that may interest you as well.
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WUBRGMr. Bones' Wild RideGRBUW Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Murder Goat is the bees knees. I play it in my Maelstrom Wanderer deck to great effect. Just with wanderer and the goat it is 24 damage. With one additional creature its +7 damage. If you have a larger creature, it gets absurd. If you clone it, you get x4 damage. The damage potential is much larger than 'hoof with a smaller amount of creatures. Also, it gives trample and costs 2 less mana, which means you can cast and clone it for the same cost as Hoof. That is probably much, much more damage in most situations. It doesn't fold to Torpor Orb, but is more vulnerable to instant speed removal.
So, in one of my playgroups, it has become apparent to me that craterhoof is too strong for them to handle. My current build is basically to play super value creatures and answer threats while i ramp onto one of my big top end win conditions. However, craterhoof has proven too effective for them to reliably handle (no one plays counterspells but me) so I'm looking for a single card to swap it out for when im playing against them. My deck is extremely reliable at finding a craterhoof when i need it, and i have no desire to alter anything else since the deck is fine in my other playgroups
So, basically, what are your guys suggestions for a card to put in place of craterhoof? Needs to be something that is capable of running away with the game very quickly, since this is the slot devoted to my primary win condition, but won't just won the game on the spot every time it hits the field?
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
Tooth and nail into Xenagos, God of Revels and some large beater or eldrazi can really run away with the game aswell but usually doesn't kill on the spot.
Avenger of Zendikar coupled with landramp can also run away with the game but doesn't ill everyone on the spot.
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i currently have avenger in my list already, perhaps i should have simply posted my list
xenagos isnt a bad idea, but it would make my deck feel very similar (and possibly strictly better) than the mayel deck in that group
ascension is off the table since my deck is built to find creatures, not enchantments, and that would require retooling my deck to actually be able to proc it reliably
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
GEzuriG
WURaffUW
WBAyliBW
GOmnathG
URMizzixRU
hmmmmmm thats a possibility, i have him in marchesa....
really not sure about if its too powered down or not, as the problem with 'hoof isn't that he is "too powerful" persay (we have meren combo, mayel cheat fatties into play, and sen triplets artifact controlishy esper goodstuff, so they also do powerful things), but that there is 0 way for them to actually interact with craterhoof, as once it hits the field i have lethal, so giving them a turn to answer my board might just do it
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
seeing as how i almost never cast my commander, baloth would be pretty bad
i really like the ibex though.... almost identical as well, once again giving them time to respond
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
That sounds hilarious! I do obviously worry that they would become very unhappy with me if i turn their wipe into a one sided Armageddon
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
can we get a list so that nothing is mentioned that is already in your deck?
because you probably have maelstrom wanderer which would be my suggestion copying it basically means putting 1 beater(legend rule) on the field that gives haste and a potential 4 more spells cast.
Maelstrom is a great dude but you won't get 4 spells. the cascade is an on-cast trigger and copying the critter won't trigger it.
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Maelstrom Wanderer is a good value card, but is useless to copy, not only is it legendary, so only one will remain, but the copy won't trigger the cascades because it wasn't cast.
Pathbreaker Ibex is a very fun card though, it is one of those creatures that must be answered or everyone dies, giving it haste just makes everything better.
GRUAnimar, Soul of CreaturesGRU
GWGW Tokens: Rhys,Tolsimir, or Trostani GW
BMarrow-GnawerB
BGSkullbriar, All's fun in the GraveBG
RWBAlesha, Who Smiles at DeathRWB
dont run wanderer since a lot of the times my 6-8 drops end up on the field without getting cast
1x Altered Ego
1x Ancient Grudge
1x Avenger of Zendikar
1x Birthing Pod
1x Blasphemous Act
1x Bloodstained Mire
1x Breeding Pool
1x Bribery
1x Brutalizer Exarch
1x Buried Ruin
1x Ceta Sanctuary
1x Cinder Glade
1x Clever Impersonator
1x Coiling Oracle
1x Command Tower
1x Conjurer's Closet
1x Counterflux
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
1x Crystal Shard
1x Cultivate
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Dawntreader Elk
1x Deadeye Navigator
1x Diluvian Primordial
1x Elgaud Shieldmate
1x Eternal Witness
1x Explosive Vegetation
1x Fabricate
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Farhaven Elf
1x Farseek
1x Fauna Shaman
1x Fierce Empath
1x Flooded Grove
1x Flooded Strand
6x Forest
1x Frontier Bivouac
1x Garruk, Caller of Beasts
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Hinterland Harbor
1x Inferno Titan
5x Island
1x Ixidron
1x Kessig Wolf Run
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Mimic Vat
1x Molten Primordial
1x Mossfire Valley
3x Mountain
1x Mulldrifter
1x Mystic Snake
1x Nostalgic Dreams
1x Overwhelming Stampede
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Plasm Capture
1x Polluted Delta
1x Pongify
1x Prime Speaker Zegana
1x Progenitor Mimic
1x Proteus Staff
1x Rampant Growth
1x Rapid Hybridization
1x Recollect
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Rite of Replication
1x Rootbound Crag
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Shivan Reef
1x Sol Ring
1x Somberwald Sage
1x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
1x Sulfur Falls
1x Thought Vessel
1x Tooth and Nail
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Unknown Shores
1x Vandalblast
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Voyager Staff
1x Wild Pair
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Yavimaya Coast
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
pathbreaker ibex or thunderfoot baloth is the next best thing that fulfills the same role
unless you would rather do a spell, if so i suggest the infect overrun
Triumph of the Hordes
Kessig Cagebreakers is another fun card to toss into a riku deck, especially if you run Parallel Lives and/or Doubling Season. Podding an Anger into a cagebreakers, with copy, with parallel out, is quite potent, and far more amusing than a Craterhoof kill. If Pod is too strong, cagebreakers alone should pose a significant, yet answerable, threat.
Likewise, I have been a fan of Hellrider in my Riku build. Once you get a few copies out, he gets scary fast. Simply casting Hellirider, with copy, +parallel lives, into a clone, with copy, +parallel lives, for 6 hellriders... that's 36 to the face on attack declaration, before anything even hits home. And that's not counting riku on the swing, or any other tokens/creatures.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Kamahl is awesome. And don't think of him so much as MLD, but rather as wrath prevention. If someone goes to cast Wrath of God when I have Kamahl out and mana up, I always point out what the consequences will be and offer them a takeback rather than just saying "Gotcha!" (the rest of the table needs to be okay with the takeback too though. Of course, if someone vetos the takeback, you can always punish them by hitting some of their lands as well).
Also, he turns any direct damage spell into spot land removal for problem lands without you having to run any dedicated land removal spells in your deck.
Finally, don't overlook the fact that his internal synergy can sometimes turn a not-quite-there overrun attack into a viable alpha strike.
Of course, I also run pyroclasm in my deck that has Kamahl, so I'm not above being a dick.
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True, that is not "4 more spells to cast" though. So I thought I'd clear that up to avoid misunderstadnings regarding how it works.
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Trap your friends in an endless game with this 23-card combo!
Overrun
Overwhelming Stampede
Garruk Wildspeaker (His ultimate)
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
Or for a little more cheesy-ness Triumph of the Hordes.
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
With a few haste outlets in your deck (you are playing red, so that should be easy), you can get lethal out of nowhere for less mana. Fires of Yavimaya, Anger, Maelstrom Wandererand Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker are some of my favorites.