Preamble: LGS follows RC banlist, and has 1 incentive to push past T6. (Points based on KO's, double after all player's T6)
Blue being of course prevalent, Riku/Palinchron deck being the top dog more often than not. Rather poor threat assessments on other player's parts, as Riku doesn't put much on the board until he can create a lethal board state in a turn (using combo, then following up with a Time Walk, for "haste")
As I can't do a great deal about teaching other's threat assessment, I'm thinking of a "Hate bear/Aggro" list to put on tons of pressure, preferably 1 player's life total at a time. I'm thinking a Mardu deck to get the best colors I can for what I want to wreck for a few weeks.
Looking for outside assessments of the best "hate" for the Combo Archetype. I don't oppose a bit of Kingmaking in the form of "KO combo, and if I lose, then let it be to a weaker deck after I've removed the Top Dog".
Dega/Mardu seems the best for this, as White has good lock pieces, Black has discard and tutors, and Red has "blue hate". I'll take sub-optimal general aspect cards that fill a small role amazingly, without being completely useless (like Boil) against a randomly paired non-blue table, for instance.
Two generals spring to mind as possibly being able to compete in such a meta. Kaalia of the vast or zurgo helmsmasher, either with an armageddon effect should do what you ask of it.
Depends on whether you want to "fight the combo meta" or "shift your meta away from combo".
For the former, stax and hyper control are effective, but you're going to have to hone your decks to a razor edge and be ruthless when playing.
For the latter, my suggestion is to bring a set of precons and have some precon-only matches. Some people might enjoy this brand of EDH more than what they're used to, keep track of who appreciates playing in a zero-combo environment and slowly raise the power level by doing some modest tuning of the precons. If combo players want to join in, respectfully decline (since they'd essentially be bringing a gun to a knife fight anyway).
Depending on how bad it is, you might be able to get away with control into beatdown. Spot removal and counters can go a long way towards shutting that stuff down.
Works for me, but not every game ends before T6 around here. I imagine if everyone else at your table is doing it, your kind of fighting a losing battle, as there is no more efficient playstyle and you'd be trying to take on 3 hyper efficient decks in each game.
Another approach is variations on chaos decks. Red and Red/Blue have a lot of good chaos effects and in particular, effects that let you dump cards onto the field. Bury the combo players under a tide of free fatties and screw up their game plans with chaos effects.
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EDH RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
I finally found a store in my area doing EDH pods and "League" that's not an hour drive and sadly I've had to escalate my power level because a third of the players are combo players that enjoy playing solitaire. The most disappointing part though is that League has no rules or point system, and it's just "Show up and play 5 times, get a $5 credit for the store", so there's no incentive for not just knocking people out of a pod within 5 minutes of starting. I always thought having a giant list of potential points to keep track of to be a bit asinine, but now that I'm playing in multiplayer pods regularly, I'm wishing one were enforced.
Two generals spring to mind as possibly being able to compete in such a meta. Kaalia of the vast or zurgo helmsmasher, either with an armageddon effect should do what you ask of it.
I forgot Zurgo was a card... I was planning on Alesha, who Smiles at Death, as reanimator is also pretty strong against your average control. Zurgo is definitely a contender, he's a better clock than Alesha.
Depends on whether you want to "fight the combo meta" or "shift your meta away from combo".
For the former, stax and hyper control are effective, but you're going to have to hone your decks to a razor edge and be ruthless when playing.
For the latter, my suggestion is to bring a set of precons and have some precon-only matches. Some people might enjoy this brand of EDH more than what they're used to, keep track of who appreciates playing in a zero-combo environment and slowly raise the power level by doing some modest tuning of the precons. If combo players want to join in, respectfully decline (since they'd essentially be bringing a gun to a knife fight anyway).
I've already tried stax, I may go back to it in the form of Derevi again. As for control, it's not quite the same, it's better to have a proactive policing in this matter, as half my meta is morons, the other are the ones winning on the backs of the same combo every time. As for the Pre-Con bit, its a LGS "league" so it won't happen.
Depending on how bad it is, you might be able to get away with control into beatdown. Spot removal and counters can go a long way towards shutting that stuff down.
Works for me, but not every game ends before T6 around here. I imagine if everyone else at your table is doing it, your kind of fighting a losing battle, as there is no more efficient playstyle and you'd be trying to take on 3 hyper efficient decks in each game.
Another approach is variations on chaos decks. Red and Red/Blue have a lot of good chaos effects and in particular, effects that let you dump cards onto the field. Bury the combo players under a tide of free fatties and screw up their game plans with chaos effects.
I was hoping for a mix of Aggro with touches of Control. In terms of the above response, Zurgo + Armageddon is certainly that. Chaos would certainly be fun, something I may do again, but this deck plan is that of forcing a Meta Shift, rather than throwing everything to the wind.
how fast are the combos and how hard do you want to lock them out of the game?
The fastest way to win with a control deck is to beat them to death with your commander.
Fast is pretty variable, some can and have started as soon as T3/4, though on average is a bit later, T6-8 or even later. And yes, lock them out pretty hard, would be my answer. Omen Machine would be a consideration, if it weren't for the fact of a random T&N coming out right after, sort of deal.
I'd suggest you find the weak points in their combos and break them right there. The more linear their decks the more fragile they are to targeted hate. Their combos are slow enough to disrupt this way which is good.
my problem with stax and MLD is that they lock out other non combo players as well.
Targeted hate can break one deck the one that needs to be broken or rather unbroken, however, it can be much less redundant so you need to basically act as an anti combo deck where your combo is hate to your opponents.
The best way to stop combo is counterspells that can't be countered like Last Word, spot removal with split second like Wipe Away and Sudden Death, and a boatload of tutors plus whatever wincons you fancy.
Ever see an Oloro players face when you Sudden Death his Laboratory Maniac in response to his game-winning draw spell?
If you want to push out combo heavy decks shut down their resources and close off their avenues to victory. Stax is the way to go. Against Riku I'd go with GAIV. Derevi is better against non-creature based combo but she's also an option.
I had a similar problem and brewed up my pet deck to provide a solution. It worked out pretty well. GAIV $tax
Even if you don't care for the entire deck, perhaps a few of the cards it contains you'll get inspired from.
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Legacy: TES
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave
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Preamble: LGS follows RC banlist, and has 1 incentive to push past T6. (Points based on KO's, double after all player's T6)
Blue being of course prevalent, Riku/Palinchron deck being the top dog more often than not. Rather poor threat assessments on other player's parts, as Riku doesn't put much on the board until he can create a lethal board state in a turn (using combo, then following up with a Time Walk, for "haste")
As I can't do a great deal about teaching other's threat assessment, I'm thinking of a "Hate bear/Aggro" list to put on tons of pressure, preferably 1 player's life total at a time. I'm thinking a Mardu deck to get the best colors I can for what I want to wreck for a few weeks.
Rule of Law/Curse of Exhaustion for Palinchron lockout, Uba Mask for Azami lockout, Stranglehold/Ugin's Nexus for timewalk lock out, etc.
Looking for outside assessments of the best "hate" for the Combo Archetype. I don't oppose a bit of Kingmaking in the form of "KO combo, and if I lose, then let it be to a weaker deck after I've removed the Top Dog".
Dega/Mardu seems the best for this, as White has good lock pieces, Black has discard and tutors, and Red has "blue hate". I'll take sub-optimal general aspect cards that fill a small role amazingly, without being completely useless (like Boil) against a randomly paired non-blue table, for instance.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
For the former, stax and hyper control are effective, but you're going to have to hone your decks to a razor edge and be ruthless when playing.
For the latter, my suggestion is to bring a set of precons and have some precon-only matches. Some people might enjoy this brand of EDH more than what they're used to, keep track of who appreciates playing in a zero-combo environment and slowly raise the power level by doing some modest tuning of the precons. If combo players want to join in, respectfully decline (since they'd essentially be bringing a gun to a knife fight anyway).
Works for me, but not every game ends before T6 around here. I imagine if everyone else at your table is doing it, your kind of fighting a losing battle, as there is no more efficient playstyle and you'd be trying to take on 3 hyper efficient decks in each game.
Another approach is variations on chaos decks. Red and Red/Blue have a lot of good chaos effects and in particular, effects that let you dump cards onto the field. Bury the combo players under a tide of free fatties and screw up their game plans with chaos effects.
RRGrenzo plays your deck, GGYeva's mono green control, WW9-tails trys desperately for monowhite not to suck
RWBUTymna and Kraum's saboteur tribal, UWG Kestia's Enchantress Aggro, RUB Jeleva casts big dumb spells, RGB Vaevictis' big critters can kill your critters hard
Arena Standard
UUUU Tempo, since before it was cool
Various Wx decks running Fountain of Renewal and Day of Glory
Anything I can cram Chaos Wand in to
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/692231-dragonlord-nojutai-multiplayer-playing-fair
how fast are the combos and how hard do you want to lock them out of the game?
The fastest way to win with a control deck is to beat them to death with your commander.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
(Also known as Xenphire)
I forgot Zurgo was a card... I was planning on Alesha, who Smiles at Death, as reanimator is also pretty strong against your average control. Zurgo is definitely a contender, he's a better clock than Alesha.
I've already tried stax, I may go back to it in the form of Derevi again. As for control, it's not quite the same, it's better to have a proactive policing in this matter, as half my meta is morons, the other are the ones winning on the backs of the same combo every time. As for the Pre-Con bit, its a LGS "league" so it won't happen.
I was hoping for a mix of Aggro with touches of Control. In terms of the above response, Zurgo + Armageddon is certainly that. Chaos would certainly be fun, something I may do again, but this deck plan is that of forcing a Meta Shift, rather than throwing everything to the wind.
Fast is pretty variable, some can and have started as soon as T3/4, though on average is a bit later, T6-8 or even later. And yes, lock them out pretty hard, would be my answer. Omen Machine would be a consideration, if it weren't for the fact of a random T&N coming out right after, sort of deal.
my problem with stax and MLD is that they lock out other non combo players as well.
Targeted hate can break one deck the one that needs to be broken or rather unbroken, however, it can be much less redundant so you need to basically act as an anti combo deck where your combo is hate to your opponents.
For example, aven mindcensor,stranglehold, mindlock orb can stop the tutoring.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Ever see an Oloro players face when you Sudden Death his Laboratory Maniac in response to his game-winning draw spell?
Nicol Bolas Dragon Dick
Hanna, Ship's Navigator Heart-attack Stax
Oona, Queen of the Fae Fairy Dance
Vhati Il-Dal Tree of Woe
Scion of the Ur-Dragon Durgensturm
Jolrael, Empress of Beasts Jamuraa's Army
Liliana, Heretical Healer Rise from your Graves and Proliferate
Tariel, Reckoner of Souls Angelic Judgment [
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden EDH
GAzusa, Always in a Rush EDH
GWUDerevi, Empyrial Warlord EDH
Trade thread on MOTL
GAIV $tax
Even if you don't care for the entire deck, perhaps a few of the cards it contains you'll get inspired from.
EDH: Grand Arbiter $tax, Freyalise Stompy, Mimeoplasm Death From the Grave