Possibility of Quad lands? Like the Alara/Khans Tri-lands, but with a 4th color? Wouldn't be a bad uncommon, and would also benefit 5-color decks too.
Yea that is true. But i doubt it, they didn't print a wedge land for C11
To be fair, C11 was the first Commander product, so I don't think they put particularly a lot of thought into new mana fixing other than Command Tower. They probably also anticipated going into a Wedge Set/Block considering Alara's popularity in relation to the format.
MaRo has repeatedly said that design space for 4-color is very minimal, so if they don't see much potential for 4-color in a Standard set, they might just do the ETBT Quad-Lands in this product. Of course, MaRo doesn't really meddle much with the Supplementary Products (remember Green breaks the ColorPieyearly as a celebration of MaRo's lack of attention...), so we might not get them either. I doubt they have any capacity to break Legacy considering the simple line of ETBT.
I'd love if they reprinted the original Nephilim as legendary. I know they won't, but I'd like it. If they should have been legendary, and no one plays them in any format, just man up and fix the mistake. Easy!
Also: No generic pump effects please. Just like Gahiji, Honored One was uninspired, I think we can do better than a Rakdos commander with "GW: +2/+2".
WHAT THE FU-
Damn i don;t wnat my commanders foiled, i like them non-foiled (I try my best to get 0 foiled cards in my decks. Plus having a foil allows me to trade it away for a non foil and something else. I don't collect to make money i collect to play.
I would like foils of certain cards though as I saw something really interesting (A guy have a foil and non-foil of his general, and when it was in play he would flip it to the foiled side.
So if i could get a foil of Mizzix, tat would be nice but also want the non-foil.
Plus when tehy foil cards in certain sets (Like every single From the Vaults) it looks pretty bad.
Not going to lie. I'm really not looking forward to these. Odd are this will be the one of the very few, if not only, time they do 4-color legends. If they suck, then they'll suck for a very long time. I'd rather them not make these than risk them messing it up and us still not having a good option for 4-color decks.
I like the idea of 4-color, but I feel that the design really needs to show that it's lacking that 5th color. However, I just don't feel this to be possible really. I think it would require a bit too much text to properly show that lack of a 5th color.
So, you want them to not make them, because we don't have any and if they make these and they're bad we won't have any for a long time? With that logic they should never mKe them and we'd never have any 4 color options, lol.
They have to make them some time. And having AN option is better than no option.
You can take any 5-color legend, not use a color, and have an option. Granted, It's difficult to not throw that 5th color in, but there have always been options.
Basically, for as long as people have been yelling/crying/whining/pleading for these 4-colored legends, If any of them are even sub-par then people are never going to stop complaining. Except then we'll have two sets of people complaining: those that want more 4-colored legends, and those that hate the one's they just made. All I can hope for is that they print at least 2 sets of 4-colored legends and at least one of the 2 doesn't suck.
Tbh, I would have rather had more 3-colored Tarkir-styled wedge commanders.
Not going to lie. I'm really not looking forward to these. Odd are this will be the one of the very few, if not only, time they do 4-color legends. If they suck, then they'll suck for a very long time. I'd rather them not make these than risk them messing it up and us still not having a good option for 4-color decks.
I like the idea of 4-color, but I feel that the design really needs to show that it's lacking that 5th color. However, I just don't feel this to be possible really. I think it would require a bit too much text to properly show that lack of a 5th color.
So, you want them to not make them, because we don't have any and if they make these and they're bad we won't have any for a long time? With that logic they should never mKe them and we'd never have any 4 color options, lol.
They have to make them some time. And having AN option is better than no option.
You can take any 5-color legend, not use a color, and have an option. Granted, It's difficult to not throw that 5th color in, but there have always been options.
Basically, for as long as people have been yelling/crying/whining/pleading for these 4-colored legends, If any of them are even sub-par then people are never going to stop complaining. Except then we'll have two sets of people complaining: those that want more 4-colored legends, and those that hate the one's they just made. All I can hope for is that they print at least 2 sets of 4-colored legends and at least one of the 2 doesn't suck.
Tbh, I would have rather had more 3-colored Tarkir-styled wedge commanders.
I wanted the ally colors.
I am already wining that they are gonna be foiled generals.
Considering they will be coming in a premade deck which will have a terrible manabase I expect that they will not cost 4 because its incredibly hard to fix to 4 colors on curve with a super budget landbase reliably on turn 4. If you push it back to 6+ mana you stall the need to consistently set up a landbase and allow for a more forgiving ETB tapped sort of land setup.
Dont get me wrong, I want them to stay low on the costs but at the same time if they dont go hybrid on their costs its the only way I really see to let players use the super budget landbase these things will come with.
As I pointed out in my previous post in this thread, getting a decent mana base for a four color deck within the budgetary limitations of the official commander decks is not particularly difficult, particularly not when we consider there are no less than four 10 card cycles of two color lands between common and uncommon (Ravnica Karoos, the Gates, the Tarkir Refuges and the BFZ/SOI tap lands).
Heck, if they want to be funny, we could get the Tempest pain lands and depletion lands as uncommons, but I doubt we would be that lucky.
And I really don't see them taking this opportunity to errata the Legendary supertype on to the existing nephilim.
Why not? Seems like the obvious way to do it to me.
There will be a lot more players picking up the commander printing than players who had ever seen or heard of the nephilim cycle before.
I guess mostly because if they wanted to errata Legendary onto the nephilim they could have done so at any time and there was no good reason to wait until now. Although I can see that it might be more palatable to do so when they are also taking the opportunity to print versions of the cards that actually say "Legendary" on the cardboard.
Maro has stated, on multiple occasions, that they no longer do functional errata, and in deed had taken great pains to undo earlier such nonsense (except making Phasing work like it did originally), and giving the legendary supertype to a card *would* be functional errata, which is why it isn't going to happen, ever. We will likely get reprints of them, but don't expect them to be legendary.
The announcement kind of implies that the 4 foil legends will all be eligible commanders for the deck, but that seems like way too many. Assuming several of the foils are actually reprints, fingers crossed for foil Titania and Thromok.
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Current Decks GTitania midrange RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
Not sure if I am surprised or not about all the negative responses. Personally, I am confident enough in Wizard's ability to design products that if they feel up to doing 4 color combos, then they certainly have enough ideas and stuff to make them interesting. Making 4 good stuff decks would be doubtful, at least without SOME thematic guide.
Like, +1/+1 counters matter. It has been in Abzan, but Simic is also the king, so UBGW is an easy entry for counters.
UWRB can certainly be a spellslinger deck, triggering more off the graveyard with Flashback and such, maybe even a Sidisi effect to get tokens off of spells hitting the graveyard from the library.
WGRU, lacking black, could be a "Purifier" deck, focusing on exile and protection. A commander which rewards you for having a "simple board" (like, no auras, no graveyard, or even no hand) could be fun.
BRGW, lacking blue, could even be a chaos deck. Redirecting targets, sacrificing creatures to steal and give away all sorts of permanents.
BRGU, lacking white, could be a suicide deck. Paying life for everything, in the same way the Torment set made every color more "Black".
Just some really basic ideas. I think they could focus on not only the lacking color, but then maybe that color's enemy. So, the lack of black combo would focus on White, then add in Temur and focus on what White does when added to each of those colors. So the commander is basically GW, RW, and UW. Whether that makes them mono-white or just white heavy, who knows...
Still very excited to see this. I always love to see Wizards takes more risks and really see what design can do before things get weird. If they hold back too much, they just get half baked duds. Better to have weird and bizarre powers that may be hard to balance then something not worth playing at all. (obviously, broken should still be avoided)
I had made a post denouncing this idea maybe a week ago, because it seems obnoxious. But as I see it we have a few options to consider:
The Chinese-Menu Approach; slap as many keywords and abilities onto a card until it fits the colors just right.
The Iremind1UBRG
Legendary Creature - Avatar (G/U): ~ gains hexproof until end of turn. (U/R): Switch ~'s power and toughness until end of turn. (B/R): ~ deals 1 damage to each creature. (B/G): Regenerate ~.
2/7
I would consider the above card to be terrible design. We might also get lucky though and have WotC take a very odd approach and use cards/abilities that are very unique in the game and base the legends around them. See below for Rings of Brighthearth/Strionic Resonator/Paradox Haze.
Orvo, Rift SkipperWUBG
Legendary Creature - Vedalken Wizard 2, t: Copy target activated or triggered ability.
At the beginning of your first upkeep, you get an additional upkeep after this step.
2/6
I would most enjoy this concept, because maybe FINALLY they would give us a legend with Crucible of World's text. Hybrid mana allows the legends to more closely mimic three-colored legends:
Urza, the Prodigal Spark2WU(B/R)
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
Whenever a creature or artifact enters the battlefield under your control, draw up to two cards. If you do, discard that many cards.
You may cast creatures and artifacts from your graveyard. If you do, exile the top card of your library.
4/4
Or have the three legends utilize abilities akin to the Legends in Fate Reforged as people have stated:
The Seasons Tree1BG
Legendary Creature - Plant (G/W), Sacrifice ~: Until the end of turn, if a creature you control would die, return that creature to its owner's hand instead. (B/R), Sacrifice ~: Until the end of turn, if a creature you control dies, each opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
0/7
Since apparently we have to see this through, I would much rather see things like the Seasons Tree or Orvo. But I feel like we're more likely to be treated to things like the Iremind "because design is hard." I suppose the bottom line for these is that they are a gift to the community, and while we are the vocal few who will judge them the harshest, I think it's important to always remember that they are a nicety afforded to us, and not something we were owed.
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WHAT THE FU-
Damn i don;t wnat my commanders foiled, i like them non-foiled (I try my best to get 0 foiled cards in my decks. Plus having a foil allows me to trade it away for a non foil and something else. I don't collect to make money i collect to play.
I would like foils of certain cards though as I saw something really interesting (A guy have a foil and non-foil of his general, and when it was in play he would flip it to the foiled side.
So if i could get a foil of Mizzix, tat would be nice but also want the non-foil.
Plus when tehy foil cards in certain sets (Like every single From the Vaults) it looks pretty bad.
It did say there would be a 100-card deck in addition to the foil cards. The way I interpret that is you'll get 100 non-foil cards to play, and then you can swap out four of those cards with the foil versions if you choose to.
It did say there would be a 100-card deck in addition to the foil cards. The way I interpret that is you'll get 100 non-foil cards to play, and then you can swap out four of those cards with the foil versions if you choose to.
I hope so, because I'll echo the "screw foils" sentiment.
I'm honestly not worried at all. There is no better design space to create four-colored creatures than a format where literally any card is legal outside of a short balance-enforcing banlist. They have a staggering array of keywords and effects that they can cherry-pick from without worrying about using too many different ones. Proliferate is a prime example of one such keyword: it has color associations with three different colors already (just add a fourth!), exists in a block that would make it inaccessible to any other format in the near future, is highly regarded by most people I've met in terms of fun value, and is decidedly balanced for how much of a 'johnny' mechanic it is.
One thing I would like to see return is shadow. Something like...
~~~
Dream-Realm Nephilim
WUBG
If a creature without shadow would be destroyed, regenerate that creature instead and put a +1/+1 counter on it (or -1/-1 counter, or dream counter, or whatever).
Each creature with a {blank} counter has shadow.
When Dream-Realm Nephilim leaves play, exile each other creature with shadow.
~~~
Just as an example of how a four-color commander can feel on-color without resorting to "everything but this color".
I for one would also enjoy a morphling-style commander (but only one). Cromat is quite frankly outdated in power compared to newer creatures.
Another fun possibility would be if they could find an eloquent and non-confusing way to say "this creature has/gains all keyword abilities of each other creature in/on the wherever" instead of the block o' text style of cards like Cairn Wanderer and Odric, Lunarch Marshal which inevitably become outdated. I would love any card that could gain phasing, even if only indirectly.
It did say there would be a 100-card deck in addition to the foil cards. The way I interpret that is you'll get 100 non-foil cards to play, and then you can swap out four of those cards with the foil versions if you choose to.
I hope so, because I'll echo the "screw foils" sentiment.
Same here, i don;t mind the addition of foils but i like not having foils. But heck If I am going to run one of the decks, I wouldn't mind having the foil card in addition to show it as active.
It did say there would be a 100-card deck in addition to the foil cards. The way I interpret that is you'll get 100 non-foil cards to play, and then you can swap out four of those cards with the foil versions if you choose to.
I hope so, because I'll echo the "screw foils" sentiment.
Same here, i don;t mind the addition of foils but i like not having foils. But heck If I am going to run one of the decks, I wouldn't mind having the foil card in addition to show it as active.
I like having a foil Commander, even if (especially if) nothing else in the deck is foil. And hey, at least they will be more useful than the oversized foils in past Commander products.
I'm guessing we'll get one straight-up four-color Nephilim style commander, one hybrid commander, one monocolored commander with three other color identities, and probably some other stuff too.
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I'll use the foil cards. I don't use the oversized cards. Having the new commanders in foil is great for me. No more waiting for judge promos/conspiracy reprints/etc to get foil copies. That's better news to me than the set having 4C commanders.
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What is the 4 color commanders are simpler to cast then we think, something with 2 sets of hybrid mana symbols using 4/5 colors. like B/UG/R4.
Then it would be much easier to cast, and they could add in a couple of those counterlands that give any color mana for splash colored cards but focused on 2-3 colors instead of doing all 4.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
My guess is that the generals, at their core, will be the two colors that consider the not represented color a common enemy. IE: In the deck that doesn't use white, Rakdos will be the core of the deck. I think the two colors that flank the guild pair will be an activated ability -- in the example here, Izzet.
One thought/hope I had about these, is maybe this is an opportunity for Wizards to finish the tango-land cycle from Battle for Zendikar (i.e. reprint the ally-color dual lands, and print new enemy-color tango lands). They would help with the mana base without impacting the price too much, since those lands are fairly cheap.
If people are sick of reading about stuff just stop taking part. You have 100% control over what you read. Simic Ascendancy isn't going to get banned just because you didn't tell someone to shut up on the internet.
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Yea that is true. But i doubt it, they didn't print a wedge land for C11
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
To be fair, C11 was the first Commander product, so I don't think they put particularly a lot of thought into new mana fixing other than Command Tower. They probably also anticipated going into a Wedge Set/Block considering Alara's popularity in relation to the format.
MaRo has repeatedly said that design space for 4-color is very minimal, so if they don't see much potential for 4-color in a Standard set, they might just do the ETBT Quad-Lands in this product. Of course, MaRo doesn't really meddle much with the Supplementary Products (remember Green breaks the Color Pie yearly as a celebration of MaRo's lack of attention...), so we might not get them either. I doubt they have any capacity to break Legacy considering the simple line of ETBT.
Also: No generic pump effects please. Just like Gahiji, Honored One was uninspired, I think we can do better than a Rakdos commander with "GW: +2/+2".
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
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WHAT THE FU-
Damn i don;t wnat my commanders foiled, i like them non-foiled (I try my best to get 0 foiled cards in my decks. Plus having a foil allows me to trade it away for a non foil and something else. I don't collect to make money i collect to play.
I would like foils of certain cards though as I saw something really interesting (A guy have a foil and non-foil of his general, and when it was in play he would flip it to the foiled side.
So if i could get a foil of Mizzix, tat would be nice but also want the non-foil.
Plus when tehy foil cards in certain sets (Like every single From the Vaults) it looks pretty bad.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
You can take any 5-color legend, not use a color, and have an option. Granted, It's difficult to not throw that 5th color in, but there have always been options.
Basically, for as long as people have been yelling/crying/whining/pleading for these 4-colored legends, If any of them are even sub-par then people are never going to stop complaining. Except then we'll have two sets of people complaining: those that want more 4-colored legends, and those that hate the one's they just made. All I can hope for is that they print at least 2 sets of 4-colored legends and at least one of the 2 doesn't suck.
Tbh, I would have rather had more 3-colored Tarkir-styled wedge commanders.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
I wanted the ally colors.
I am already wining that they are gonna be foiled generals.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
As I pointed out in my previous post in this thread, getting a decent mana base for a four color deck within the budgetary limitations of the official commander decks is not particularly difficult, particularly not when we consider there are no less than four 10 card cycles of two color lands between common and uncommon (Ravnica Karoos, the Gates, the Tarkir Refuges and the BFZ/SOI tap lands).
Heck, if they want to be funny, we could get the Tempest pain lands and depletion lands as uncommons, but I doubt we would be that lucky.
Maro has stated, on multiple occasions, that they no longer do functional errata, and in deed had taken great pains to undo earlier such nonsense (except making Phasing work like it did originally), and giving the legendary supertype to a card *would* be functional errata, which is why it isn't going to happen, ever. We will likely get reprints of them, but don't expect them to be legendary.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Current Decks
GTitania midrange
RGThromok tokens/goodstuff | UB Grimgrin zombie tribal
GW Sigarda enchantress | R Godo voltron
U Braids aggro | WR Kalemne punisher
RU Mizzix storm | BUG Mimeoplasm competitive reanimator | UG Ezuri infect
Like, +1/+1 counters matter. It has been in Abzan, but Simic is also the king, so UBGW is an easy entry for counters.
UWRB can certainly be a spellslinger deck, triggering more off the graveyard with Flashback and such, maybe even a Sidisi effect to get tokens off of spells hitting the graveyard from the library.
WGRU, lacking black, could be a "Purifier" deck, focusing on exile and protection. A commander which rewards you for having a "simple board" (like, no auras, no graveyard, or even no hand) could be fun.
BRGW, lacking blue, could even be a chaos deck. Redirecting targets, sacrificing creatures to steal and give away all sorts of permanents.
BRGU, lacking white, could be a suicide deck. Paying life for everything, in the same way the Torment set made every color more "Black".
Just some really basic ideas. I think they could focus on not only the lacking color, but then maybe that color's enemy. So, the lack of black combo would focus on White, then add in Temur and focus on what White does when added to each of those colors. So the commander is basically GW, RW, and UW. Whether that makes them mono-white or just white heavy, who knows...
Still very excited to see this. I always love to see Wizards takes more risks and really see what design can do before things get weird. If they hold back too much, they just get half baked duds. Better to have weird and bizarre powers that may be hard to balance then something not worth playing at all. (obviously, broken should still be avoided)
The Chinese-Menu Approach; slap as many keywords and abilities onto a card until it fits the colors just right.
The Iremind 1UBRG
Legendary Creature - Avatar
(G/U): ~ gains hexproof until end of turn.
(U/R): Switch ~'s power and toughness until end of turn.
(B/R): ~ deals 1 damage to each creature.
(B/G): Regenerate ~.
2/7
I would consider the above card to be terrible design. We might also get lucky though and have WotC take a very odd approach and use cards/abilities that are very unique in the game and base the legends around them. See below for Rings of Brighthearth/Strionic Resonator/Paradox Haze.
Orvo, Rift Skipper WUBG
Legendary Creature - Vedalken Wizard
2, t: Copy target activated or triggered ability.
At the beginning of your first upkeep, you get an additional upkeep after this step.
2/6
I would most enjoy this concept, because maybe FINALLY they would give us a legend with Crucible of World's text. Hybrid mana allows the legends to more closely mimic three-colored legends:
Urza, the Prodigal Spark 2WU(B/R)
Legendary Creature - Human Wizard
Whenever a creature or artifact enters the battlefield under your control, draw up to two cards. If you do, discard that many cards.
You may cast creatures and artifacts from your graveyard. If you do, exile the top card of your library.
4/4
Or have the three legends utilize abilities akin to the Legends in Fate Reforged as people have stated:
The Seasons Tree 1BG
Legendary Creature - Plant
(G/W), Sacrifice ~: Until the end of turn, if a creature you control would die, return that creature to its owner's hand instead.
(B/R), Sacrifice ~: Until the end of turn, if a creature you control dies, each opponent loses 1 life and you gain 1 life.
0/7
Since apparently we have to see this through, I would much rather see things like the Seasons Tree or Orvo. But I feel like we're more likely to be treated to things like the Iremind "because design is hard." I suppose the bottom line for these is that they are a gift to the community, and while we are the vocal few who will judge them the harshest, I think it's important to always remember that they are a nicety afforded to us, and not something we were owed.
is it bad if i want the mana symbols to placed in this order : BURG, just so i can say it lol
It did say there would be a 100-card deck in addition to the foil cards. The way I interpret that is you'll get 100 non-foil cards to play, and then you can swap out four of those cards with the foil versions if you choose to.
I hope so, because I'll echo the "screw foils" sentiment.
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One thing I would like to see return is shadow. Something like...
~~~
Dream-Realm Nephilim
WUBG
If a creature without shadow would be destroyed, regenerate that creature instead and put a +1/+1 counter on it (or -1/-1 counter, or dream counter, or whatever).
Each creature with a {blank} counter has shadow.
When Dream-Realm Nephilim leaves play, exile each other creature with shadow.
~~~
Just as an example of how a four-color commander can feel on-color without resorting to "everything but this color".
I for one would also enjoy a morphling-style commander (but only one). Cromat is quite frankly outdated in power compared to newer creatures.
Another fun possibility would be if they could find an eloquent and non-confusing way to say "this creature has/gains all keyword abilities of each other creature in/on the wherever" instead of the block o' text style of cards like Cairn Wanderer and Odric, Lunarch Marshal which inevitably become outdated. I would love any card that could gain phasing, even if only indirectly.
- Rabid Wombat
Same here, i don;t mind the addition of foils but i like not having foils. But heck If I am going to run one of the decks, I wouldn't mind having the foil card in addition to show it as active.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
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Then it would be much easier to cast, and they could add in a couple of those counterlands that give any color mana for splash colored cards but focused on 2-3 colors instead of doing all 4.
Hybrid I could see, but Khans style Mono color with 3 as abilities would be feel-bad I bet.
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Modern
Restore Balance RWUG
Kiki Chord RWG