So I am picking a commander for my 4th EDH Multiplayer deck, I would like to have a Grave Pact style deck that is heavy on the creature count and has ways to reuse creature's ETB or LTB. I would prefer to play with a very low tutor count so the deck would preferably be Mindrange-y and consistent to just out grind everyone
btw I have a $200-$400 budget on this deck, so i prefer to be Bi-color at best
Question 1 is should i go GB or Mono B?
Question 2 is which of the commanders below (or suggestions are also welcomed) would be best suited to helm the deck?
Why not Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest? He comes in the precon with Meren (and Jarad); that might be a worthwhile purchase if you were thinking to mix about your options. My choice from those given would be Meren fyi.
Also, grave hate is becoming pretty relevant but it's not as big a deal as it should be (in most any capacity!) if you are playing the deck moderately enough.
I would say G/B, and if you're really interested in a Gravepact-style effect... Savra, Queen of the Golgari is pretty amazing. She's basically G/B Gravepact as a general.
Kind of shocked no one brought up Ghave, Guru of Spores here yet - I know it's outside of the colors mentioned, but going Abzan and getting access to W nets you a lot of enchantment tutors and your commander has built in sacrificing to allow you to trigger Grave Pact as much as you want.
Since no one has touched on Chainer yet, I will try. I've had a Chainer deck for about 8 years now and he's always super fun to play. The biggest draw for him is that he has the capacity to mainly focus on your opponents' graveyards, making him play out differently based on the decks/playgroup. Being mono-B lets him take advantage of Cabal Coffers, Liliana of the Dark Realms, Nirkana Revenant, and Crypt Ghast in addition to the usual Gauntlet of Power and Caged Sun for insane mana generation.
The biggest hurdle for this deck is Rest in Peace. Other targeted graveyard hate is more manageable since you are using all of the graveyards. I recommend packing some amount of Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Karn Liberated, Unstable Obelisk, Oblivion Stone, and All is Dust. Sometimes I even run Sadistic Sacrament as a preventive measure. The main thing about this deck is that you need to use your tutors and card draw to set yourself up in such a way that you minimize the effect of the graveyard hate, since you don't have access to green's Reclamation Sage and Naturalize effects.
Of the 3 you mentioned I think Meren has the best synergy with Grave Pact, though she is very similar to Chainer. Jarad doesn't have a way to get the creatures back built in, which I think is harder to do than finding sacrifice outlets.
Glissa the Traitor is another option and if you were willing to go a third color Shattergang Brothers has Grave Pact built in.
Since no one has touched on Chainer yet, I will try. I've had a Chainer deck for about 8 years now and he's always super fun to play. The biggest draw for him is that he has the capacity to mainly focus on your opponents' graveyards, making him play out differently based on the decks/playgroup. Being mono-B lets him take advantage of Cabal Coffers, Liliana of the Dark Realms, Nirkana Revenant, and Crypt Ghast in addition to the usual Gauntlet of Power and Caged Sun for insane mana generation.
The biggest hurdle for this deck is Rest in Peace. Other targeted graveyard hate is more manageable since you are using all of the graveyards. I recommend packing some amount of Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Karn Liberated, Unstable Obelisk, Oblivion Stone, and All is Dust. Sometimes I even run Sadistic Sacrament as a preventive measure. The main thing about this deck is that you need to use your tutors and card draw to set yourself up in such a way that you minimize the effect of the graveyard hate, since you don't have access to green's Reclamation Sage and Naturalize effects.
I would have mentioned him, but I thought he wanted to avoid a mono black a bit. Chainer, Dementia Master is my mono black commander of choice, and is brutal with some sac outlets. Recently played a 5 player EDH game where I completely took the wind out of the Meren of Clan Nel Toth player because every time he'd sac something I'd steal it. Unfortunately, I only drew like 5 non-land cards across 18 turns and eventually just straight up lost because I used Chainer's ability until I was nearly single at digit life just to keep alive and was a target after the Mayael player dumped an Avatar of Slaughter on the board.
Personally, my deck runs a few select millingcards and Bloodchief Ascension to help fill opponent's graveyards to improve my plundering ability. Getting the altar and ascension together becomes a must answer combo, or people just lose as you gain enough life to power your graveyard stealing even further.
Grimgrin, Corpse-born is a possibility, but you need some sort of token generator to keep it up.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Tri color decks are a bit out of my budget range at the moment
As for Chainer, do u always play artifact mana doublers? cause i have another mono deck and I really would hate to play the same things again
are my top contenders. Thought I appreciate the other answers, I feel these 3 fit what I am looking for. Still no decision on which one though, they all seem really cool
I don't run Caged Sun or Gauntlet of Power or Extraplanar Lens in my Chainer. Though I cannot say it wouldn't fit. Also, my chainer is far from optimized, but still fun.
With Chainer the caged suns help but are not necessary. Crypt Ghast is as its easier to recur. Also Liliana of the Dark Realm. You can easily do a deck on a budget with him.
But if I were to be a gravepact deck, I would go G/B and do Savra for Style and ability. Meren I find is overrated as you only get 1 creature at end if turn...meh. Savra and a sac outlet does wonders.
Meren has fantastic synergy with Grave Pact and related effects, obviously. I run Grave Pact and Dictate of Erebos in my Meren deck to very strong effect. Green also helps a lot with some of mono-black's weaknesses against enchantments and artifacts, which I think is a good reason to consider Meren over Chainer - though Chainer is of course also a very good commander. Honestly, one of the hardest things about building a Meren deck is choosing among the many excellent cards that have great synergy with Meren.
Most people in my meta are smart enough to play at least a bit of grave hate, but most tend toward the targeted sort, rather than things like Rest in Peace, in part because most people like to keep their own graveyards in play. I also run an Anafenza, the Foremost deck which messes a lot with others' graveyard strategies.
I think Meren is the best choice of the three. Meren is very good. I think you want the recursion built in because grave pact effects have redundancy - Definitely play Savra in the deck. Recursion engines are tougher to put together.
Chainer could be interesting, but monoblack decks are a bit of a different beast I think. Play the green deck, you have artifact and enchantment removal and the ability to grind out your opponents better. Monoblack decks tend to go big on mana and win... tough to grind out a win when you have only a few cards that can answer non-creature threats.
W/B offers interesting cards for your desired deck style. I play Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim because she's removal and a sac engine on a stick. She gives you access to stuff like Debtor's Knell, Sun Titan, Karmic Guide, and Reveillark not to mention all the goodies black has to offer.
It takes the sacrifice for profit in a different direction but I recently transformed my Savra list to The Gitrog Monster the addional draw engine has proved insane even avoiding the more degenerate frog tricks.
Meren might be the best bet. From playing against her, I can honestly say she is very consistent, and stupidly good with simple cards like Sakura-Tribe Elder
Meren might be the best bet. From playing against her, I can honestly say she is very consistent, and stupidly good with simple cards like Sakura-Tribe Elder
This is very much the case. Sak-Elder, E Witness and so forth quickly become ridiculous in Meren, especially in metas where opponents don't pack a lot of grave-hate.
btw I have a $200-$400 budget on this deck, so i prefer to be Bi-color at best
Question 1 is should i go GB or Mono B?
Question 2 is which of the commanders below (or suggestions are also welcomed) would be best suited to helm the deck?
Xiahou Dun tends to be more combo, so i guess i will pass
Question 3 is how often do you run into Graveyard hate in your meta?
Thanks for reading
Also, grave hate is becoming pretty relevant but it's not as big a deal as it should be (in most any capacity!) if you are playing the deck moderately enough.
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Savra looks very interesting, but she feels more of a 99 card instead of the commander. Meren on the other hand is an engine on her own.
Love the ideas guys
btw, do u guys know of a good non-mill commander for UB? any decent ones with real themes?
Vela the Night-Clad does some silly combo things like Prossh with her exit the battlefield trigger, but is much less efficient at it.
EDIT: As a side note, Grimgrin also works splendidly with Grave Pact, considering his sac action, plus zombie tribal's tendency for self sacrifice
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In my lest I have a few creatures that like to be reanimated/sacrificed by themselves (Kokusho, the Evening Star, Gray Merchant of Asphodel, Wurmcoil Engine, Mindslicer, Sidisi, Undead Vizier and Grave Titan), but the rest of my deck is dedicated to abusing my opponents' stuff. I use sac outlets like Phyrexian Arena, Mind Slash, and Sadistic Hypnotist to keep my value going and fill up my opponents graveyard. Mesmeric Orb is an amazing enabler, as well.
The biggest hurdle for this deck is Rest in Peace. Other targeted graveyard hate is more manageable since you are using all of the graveyards. I recommend packing some amount of Ugin, the Spirit Dragon, Karn Liberated, Unstable Obelisk, Oblivion Stone, and All is Dust. Sometimes I even run Sadistic Sacrament as a preventive measure. The main thing about this deck is that you need to use your tutors and card draw to set yourself up in such a way that you minimize the effect of the graveyard hate, since you don't have access to green's Reclamation Sage and Naturalize effects.
Once you have the core out of the way, Chainer just loves Grave Pact, Fleshbag Marauder, and Grave Betrayal. Also, one of my all-time favorite cards in this deck is Helm of Possession.
Glissa the Traitor is another option and if you were willing to go a third color Shattergang Brothers has Grave Pact built in.
I would have mentioned him, but I thought he wanted to avoid a mono black a bit. Chainer, Dementia Master is my mono black commander of choice, and is brutal with some sac outlets. Recently played a 5 player EDH game where I completely took the wind out of the Meren of Clan Nel Toth player because every time he'd sac something I'd steal it. Unfortunately, I only drew like 5 non-land cards across 18 turns and eventually just straight up lost because I used Chainer's ability until I was nearly single at digit life just to keep alive and was a target after the Mayael player dumped an Avatar of Slaughter on the board.
Personally, my deck runs a few select milling cards and Bloodchief Ascension to help fill opponent's graveyards to improve my plundering ability. Getting the altar and ascension together becomes a must answer combo, or people just lose as you gain enough life to power your graveyard stealing even further.
Oh yeah, also, Savra is a Grave Pact when you sac black creatures.
Kresh the Bloodbraided and Prossh, Skyraider of Kher have a lot of Voltron potential.
Grimgrin, Corpse-born is a possibility, but you need some sort of token generator to keep it up.
On phasing:
As for Chainer, do u always play artifact mana doublers? cause i have another mono deck and I really would hate to play the same things again
Right now
are my top contenders. Thought I appreciate the other answers, I feel these 3 fit what I am looking for. Still no decision on which one though, they all seem really cool
But if I were to be a gravepact deck, I would go G/B and do Savra for Style and ability. Meren I find is overrated as you only get 1 creature at end if turn...meh. Savra and a sac outlet does wonders.
Most people in my meta are smart enough to play at least a bit of grave hate, but most tend toward the targeted sort, rather than things like Rest in Peace, in part because most people like to keep their own graveyards in play. I also run an Anafenza, the Foremost deck which messes a lot with others' graveyard strategies.
~Lil Kalki
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
Chainer could be interesting, but monoblack decks are a bit of a different beast I think. Play the green deck, you have artifact and enchantment removal and the ability to grind out your opponents better. Monoblack decks tend to go big on mana and win... tough to grind out a win when you have only a few cards that can answer non-creature threats.
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I think I agree Meren being the best choice and having Savra in the 99.
Thank u all, each and everyone was helpful
Savra, Queen of the Golgari (Green Black Control with Graveyard Advantages)
Standard
Probably Mono Red Sligh
Modern
Dredge
Legacy
Dredge
This is very much the case. Sak-Elder, E Witness and so forth quickly become ridiculous in Meren, especially in metas where opponents don't pack a lot of grave-hate.
Balthor the Defiled "combo"
Varolz the Scar-Striped durdle
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