Just wanting to chime in a bit on budget mana options. obviously, budgets vary from player to player, but ive been trying to get some new blood into our group, and to do so, i thought one of the best things to do is to build a couple of loaner decks. since we've got a plethora of awesome shard/wedge guys out there, and they seem to be some of the more popular generals, i thought i'd give them a go. I've got a lot of spare random cards lying around, but i can't say the same for the mana (and i don't wanna spend a lot on this project). how do you guys (the community) go about building a budget 3-colour deck? i was thinking:
ive also been quite stingy on the artifact ramp/fixing mostly 'cuz artifact hate comes around quite a bit here, and its more useful in a short-term burst (pseudo-rituals) before they get blown, so aside from in-deck synergies, i'd rather avoid them if possible.
it feels a little light on the whole colour-fixing side, though my group does have a bit of non-basic hate, both targeted and indiscriminant, so we generally lean quite a lot on basics. any other budget-friendly mana-fixing options out there that could be used? im thinking for each one, less than a dollar or a dollar max-ish, and suitable for tri-coloured decks. or if anyone out there has some good ideas on mana-smoothing on a budget, def let me know.
I'd say the Vivid cycle would be a good option as well (Vivid Crag, Vivid Marsh and Vivid Meadow for Zurgo), they work nice with the Ravnica bounce lands as well. And depending on the wedge/shard you could also look into the Lairs like Rith's Grove.
Ill second the khans gain lands and guildgates i use those in all the decks i can and rarely have mana issues. Ive cast multiple turn 4 sliver hivelords in my days. Lol
Also, keep a high enough basic count to be able to ramp/fix with Burnished Hart and Sword of the Animist. White's equipment tutors will be helpful here.
At the end of the article I walk through a stream of thought process on making a Tariel deck, which is in your colors.
Rainbow Vale is terrible in multiplayer. Since the controller chooses what opponent to give it to, they can ping pong it back and forth and you'll never see it again.
Nothing over $10.
All the rest together probably cost as much as all the shocks.
If you never plan on getting fetches, shocks are easy to cut if this list still costs too much money. Cut non-forests first for Skyshroud Claim and Farseek type interactions.
Pain lands, Temples, guild gates and life lands are the go to budget options. I would also suggest having a look at the 2015 precons for what they did with their lands then adapt for tri colour as they were reasonably solid without breaking the bank. All are easy to get ahold of and do what you need them to. If you were planning on building these over time you could also add the battle lands and SoI duals once they rotate as I doubt that they will see any play outside of standard.
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EDH BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern: RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
in terms of budget, i was generally looking at things below $1 per pop, since i was planning to build like 5 or 10 decks, and im not really the wealthiest bloke on the block.
the vivid lands actually are def within budget actually - can't believe i forgot about those!
in terms of the guildgates/khan gainlands (all those 2-coloured citpt lands), i was kinda hoping i wouldn't need to resort to those, but i might have to, dependant on how colour-intensive the decks end up
the odyssey filters are a bit above the price range though - would've loved to have them in.
the command tower might be the only one i'd be willing to shell out for thats above $1, just 'cuz its basically the perfect land for the format.
as for other 5-c lands like city of brass, mana confluence and exotic orchard, i think its a bit still over-budget. and as far as i can tell as well, i think city of brass is possibly the only land with the massive downside of having a trigger as you get the mana. but either way, over budget. i might end up shelling out for some of them for some decks anyways if the colour-intensity is too much/wanna make a 5c loaner deck.
as for temple of the false god, i wasn't sure if it even has a slot in a typical 3c deck? does anyone here have any insight? none of my 3c decks have one, as my decks tend to have a higher density of coloured-spells, and while the extra mana boost is good, the condition AND the colourless-ness is generally a bit straining for the base.
@bobthefunny - cheers thanks for the link. didn't see that before, awesome that you pointed me towards it.
I don't run Temple of the false god in 3 color very often. It depends how color intensive your deck is. Rupture spire is terrible and you shouldn't run it at all.
Krosan verge is amazing and one you left out. It grabs bfz tango lands which are out of budget but something you might splurge on as Wood Elves and Skyshroud Claim can find forest types as well. Bfz tango lands can also be found with the mirage fetches.
Tainted Peak and the other tainted lands are great if you can reliably get swamps down early. Budget friendly as well. I don't run them in Zurgo because my build is really light on black but I do in Marchesa and all 2 color black decks.
Some temples might be outside your budget but they're definitely quite a bit better than khans gainlands or guildgates. Painlands are actually pretty good too because they don't come in tapped like most of the budget lands.
It also helps your mana base in 3 color decks if you focus on 2 colors and then splash the 3rd. My Zurgo deck is a Boris deck that splashes black for card draw like Ancient Craving. Most of the black cards only require 1 black mana and anything that requires more is something I can afford to wait to cast until later in the game.
I'm afraid if you're not willing to spend more than $1 a land you won't do better than life-gain taplands and guildgates. You might be able to get some of the less popular (read: non-blue) scrylands and painlands, but you'll have to really bargain hunt.
Additionally one strategy for keeping land base costs down is keeping your cards in one large pool in the same colored sleeves. You build decks of complementary colors out of it, and when you want new ones you dissemble them and build a new set.
Operating in such a way means you don't have to buy multiple duals, which cuts costs considerably. Your collection will grow over time and you'll find yourself able to support more decks. At first I could only build 1 deck, but now my collection can support 3 with some overlap in colors.
Additionally one strategy for keeping land base costs down is keeping your cards in one large pool in the same colored sleeves. You build decks of complementary colors out of it, and when you want new ones you dissemble them and build a new set.
Operating in such a way means you don't have to buy multiple duals, which cuts costs considerably. Your collection will grow over time and you'll find yourself able to support more decks. At first I could only build 1 deck, but now my collection can support 3 with some overlap in colors.
While I'm an ardent supporter of this kind of deckbuilding, it really doesn't work if you're putting together loaner decks.
If you're going basic heavy, Armillary Sphere and the new Wild-Field Scarecrow could be worth including. They won't ramp, but they basically guarantee that you'll have all of your colors in a 2/3C list and you can play and crack them on a low land count. Unless your typical games are over very quickly, spending a card to guarantee a couple land drops isn't a bad play.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Lair Lands may set you back initially, but they come into play untapped and can return a tapped land to hand. Resetting useful cards like bojuka bog, scry lands and life lands.
[EDH] It's built to be a casual format and to a specific vision, and if you don't like the vision, there's nothing wrong with that, but it's not going to change to accommodate everyone. Big tent is not a goal.
i think in terms of bouncing-lands, i'm gonna stick with the ravnican karoo lands and a lair. sure it might end up bouncing a citpt land, but most likely its not going to be too much of a setback. also, it gives new players a chance to see what kinda lands work, what doesn't work.
unfortunately, horizon canopy is like $80 over-budget? like for serious-ies? that land is 80 bucks! i can only imagine like RG lands and dunno.. death and taxes decks using them as a possible 1-of? how'd that happen?
and yes, the vivid lands are a pain to deal with logistically, but it'd also give new players an insight to the messiness that is, EDH. i think the last time we had a game, we had a good 5-7 different coloured die, and some of the same coloured die meant different things, and so on. it kinda adds to the 'craziness' of the game methinks.
...i hate Frankenstein's Monster (had 2 differently coloured d6s and a d4 on it to indicate +2/+0, +1/+1 and +0/+2 counters)
but yea, cheers guys and gals! i think the decks are gonna have quite a lot of artifact land-search too, things like armillary sphereand that new scarecrow and the greek deer. its gonna be interesting, and probably surprisingly expensive still!
the allied fetches are minimum like $15 a pop, the shocks are like $8+ (more like $12+ for the better ones) a pop. multiply this by 3 of each per deck by 5 decks is about $350. i dont have that kinda money on me, unfortunately. like i said on the first post, i don't wanna spend more than like $1 per land, unless if it genuinely is that good in it. if im gonna spend that kinda money (or equivalent) on a loaner deck, surely the spells and creatures are the way to go - the more flashy, big effects that the format is known for.
having said that, if you know a retailer that does very cut-price fetches, let me know; im trying to separate my grixis legacy control from my EDH decks, and the manabases are just killing it..
i think in terms of bouncing-lands, i'm gonna stick with the ravnican karoo lands and a lair. sure it might end up bouncing a citpt land, but most likely its not going to be too much of a setback. also, it gives new players a chance to see what kinda lands work, what doesn't work.
unfortunately, horizon canopy is like $80 over-budget? like for serious-ies? that land is 80 bucks! i can only imagine like RG lands and dunno.. death and taxes decks using them as a possible 1-of? how'd that happen?
and yes, the vivid lands are a pain to deal with logistically, but it'd also give new players an insight to the messiness that is, EDH. i think the last time we had a game, we had a good 5-7 different coloured die, and some of the same coloured die meant different things, and so on. it kinda adds to the 'craziness' of the game methinks.
...i hate Frankenstein's Monster (had 2 differently coloured d6s and a d4 on it to indicate +2/+0, +1/+1 and +0/+2 counters)
but yea, cheers guys and gals! i think the decks are gonna have quite a lot of artifact land-search too, things like armillary sphereand that new scarecrow and the greek deer. its gonna be interesting, and probably surprisingly expensive still!
I mostly mentioned Horizon Canopy for the whole list of painlands.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
for zurgo for example, (BRW)
mirage fetch: rocky tar pit (15 cents)
basic fetch: evolving wilds, terramorphic expanse (about 15 cents)
wedge cipt: nomad outpost (40 cents) - gets all colours
temples: temple of triumph (1 dollar) - card sorting is useful
rav karoo:boros garrison, orzhov basillica, rakdos carnarium (about 30 cents) - ravnica karoos also interact well with other utility lands like bojuka bog.
others: rupture spire, Transguild Promenade
and thats like 10 slots of 40 filled.
any ideas about rainbow vale, the other colour-filtering lands like Unknown Shores, shimmering grotto?
ive also been quite stingy on the artifact ramp/fixing mostly 'cuz artifact hate comes around quite a bit here, and its more useful in a short-term burst (pseudo-rituals) before they get blown, so aside from in-deck synergies, i'd rather avoid them if possible.
it feels a little light on the whole colour-fixing side, though my group does have a bit of non-basic hate, both targeted and indiscriminant, so we generally lean quite a lot on basics. any other budget-friendly mana-fixing options out there that could be used? im thinking for each one, less than a dollar or a dollar max-ish, and suitable for tri-coloured decks. or if anyone out there has some good ideas on mana-smoothing on a budget, def let me know.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
MTGO: UberMower
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/articles/49494-word-of-command-11-a-basic-manabase
I would focus on more than just the lands, as there are plenty of fixing and ramp options in other card types, from Wayfarer's Bauble (run with Auriok Salvagers or Salvaging Station) to Oath of Lieges, among others.
Also, keep a high enough basic count to be able to ramp/fix with Burnished Hart and Sword of the Animist. White's equipment tutors will be helpful here.
At the end of the article I walk through a stream of thought process on making a Tariel deck, which is in your colors.
Don't forget to add the BFZ duals, as the land typing will work with Kor Cartographer and Knight of the White Orchid.
Rainbow Vale is terrible in multiplayer. Since the controller chooses what opponent to give it to, they can ping pong it back and forth and you'll never see it again.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Nothing over $10.
All the rest together probably cost as much as all the shocks.
If you never plan on getting fetches, shocks are easy to cut if this list still costs too much money. Cut non-forests first for Skyshroud Claim and Farseek type interactions.
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern:
RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
in terms of budget, i was generally looking at things below $1 per pop, since i was planning to build like 5 or 10 decks, and im not really the wealthiest bloke on the block.
the vivid lands actually are def within budget actually - can't believe i forgot about those!
in terms of the guildgates/khan gainlands (all those 2-coloured citpt lands), i was kinda hoping i wouldn't need to resort to those, but i might have to, dependant on how colour-intensive the decks end up
the odyssey filters are a bit above the price range though - would've loved to have them in.
the command tower might be the only one i'd be willing to shell out for thats above $1, just 'cuz its basically the perfect land for the format.
as for other 5-c lands like city of brass, mana confluence and exotic orchard, i think its a bit still over-budget. and as far as i can tell as well, i think city of brass is possibly the only land with the massive downside of having a trigger as you get the mana. but either way, over budget. i might end up shelling out for some of them for some decks anyways if the colour-intensity is too much/wanna make a 5c loaner deck.
as for temple of the false god, i wasn't sure if it even has a slot in a typical 3c deck? does anyone here have any insight? none of my 3c decks have one, as my decks tend to have a higher density of coloured-spells, and while the extra mana boost is good, the condition AND the colourless-ness is generally a bit straining for the base.
@bobthefunny - cheers thanks for the link. didn't see that before, awesome that you pointed me towards it.
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
Krosan verge is amazing and one you left out. It grabs bfz tango lands which are out of budget but something you might splurge on as Wood Elves and Skyshroud Claim can find forest types as well. Bfz tango lands can also be found with the mirage fetches.
Tainted Peak and the other tainted lands are great if you can reliably get swamps down early. Budget friendly as well. I don't run them in Zurgo because my build is really light on black but I do in Marchesa and all 2 color black decks.
Some temples might be outside your budget but they're definitely quite a bit better than khans gainlands or guildgates. Painlands are actually pretty good too because they don't come in tapped like most of the budget lands.
It also helps your mana base in 3 color decks if you focus on 2 colors and then splash the 3rd. My Zurgo deck is a Boris deck that splashes black for card draw like Ancient Craving. Most of the black cards only require 1 black mana and anything that requires more is something I can afford to wait to cast until later in the game.
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Taplands
Additionally one strategy for keeping land base costs down is keeping your cards in one large pool in the same colored sleeves. You build decks of complementary colors out of it, and when you want new ones you dissemble them and build a new set.
For example you could build Damia, Sage of Stone with any RW combination. Later you want to play Riku of Two Reflections which leaves you with a BW deck (or mono colors).
Operating in such a way means you don't have to buy multiple duals, which cuts costs considerably. Your collection will grow over time and you'll find yourself able to support more decks. At first I could only build 1 deck, but now my collection can support 3 with some overlap in colors.
If you're going basic heavy, Armillary Sphere and the new Wild-Field Scarecrow could be worth including. They won't ramp, but they basically guarantee that you'll have all of your colors in a 2/3C list and you can play and crack them on a low land count. Unless your typical games are over very quickly, spending a card to guarantee a couple land drops isn't a bad play.
Painlands
In addition, Horizon Canopy (GW), City of Brass, and Mana Confluence are all essentially painlands, though you can't tap for C for free.
The real advantage of painlands is being able to tap for C, in case you're playing colorless from OGW as well.
Karoos
On phasing:
They're actually amazing for budget fixing.
unfortunately, horizon canopy is like $80 over-budget? like for serious-ies? that land is 80 bucks! i can only imagine like RG lands and dunno.. death and taxes decks using them as a possible 1-of? how'd that happen?
and yes, the vivid lands are a pain to deal with logistically, but it'd also give new players an insight to the messiness that is, EDH. i think the last time we had a game, we had a good 5-7 different coloured die, and some of the same coloured die meant different things, and so on. it kinda adds to the 'craziness' of the game methinks.
...i hate Frankenstein's Monster (had 2 differently coloured d6s and a d4 on it to indicate +2/+0, +1/+1 and +0/+2 counters)
but yea, cheers guys and gals! i think the decks are gonna have quite a lot of artifact land-search too, things like armillary sphereand that new scarecrow and the greek deer. its gonna be interesting, and probably surprisingly expensive still!
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
the allied fetches are minimum like $15 a pop, the shocks are like $8+ (more like $12+ for the better ones) a pop. multiply this by 3 of each per deck by 5 decks is about $350. i dont have that kinda money on me, unfortunately. like i said on the first post, i don't wanna spend more than like $1 per land, unless if it genuinely is that good in it. if im gonna spend that kinda money (or equivalent) on a loaner deck, surely the spells and creatures are the way to go - the more flashy, big effects that the format is known for.
having said that, if you know a retailer that does very cut-price fetches, let me know; im trying to separate my grixis legacy control from my EDH decks, and the manabases are just killing it..
Legacy - Solidarity - mono U aggro - burn - Imperial Painter - Strawberry Shortcake - Bluuzards - bom
I mostly mentioned Horizon Canopy for the whole list of painlands.
On phasing: