I do play some of these cards, but I play them in the decks I deem more competitive (i.e. I break them out when someone brags about how powerful and unstoppable their specific deck is or when they are playing a powerful deck also).
I have to laugh a bit because I have been trying to describe this concept to a former friend of mine for two years.
His decks are basically a combination of the cards that each of you have listed withholding something like Insurrection. He just couldn't wrap his mind around the fact that he created an unfun environment for those who were playing with him (we play Commander to escape the ultra competitive environment [we get that via our 60 card constructed decks]).
It got to the point that people literally groaned if I said that he was coming. He admitted on multiple occasions that he enjoyed the game the most when everyone around him was miserable. Not exactly the attitude for a casual multiplayer game with friends. Turns out he didn't have much going for him in the rest of his life so this was his outlet to feel success and so he didn't want to just have fun with the rest of us.
When your playgroup can only get everyone together maybe once every three weeks, you don't want to spend the time boiling
Time Stretch is a card that I was running in a deck for a long time. It was part of the first combo I figured out on my own (Academy Ruins, Time Stretch, Codex Shredder). I had very few ways to search out this combo, only a Fabricate for the Codex Shredder, but I found that I was winning more than a few games with this combo. In order to be a more fair player, and in order to have games that are more interesting, I cut the crucial card from the deck, as the other two allowed me to slowly loop value cards like Cryptic.
I have never run Capsize in a deck, because I have been annoyed by it in numerous games. One particular game made me hate it in particular. I was playing my Mayael deck into Riku and Oona. Both of them had ramped heavily, and they both had capsize in hand. I was unable to stick a non-land for about seven turns while they squared off. That feeling is something I do not want to inflict on other people.
Necropotence - This card is the poster boy for that line of thought. I've posted a few Black decks that haven't listed it, and I don't think I've gotten one question for why I'm not running it. I don't think I've recommended a single player to run it. Everyone already knows the story. I'm sure, paradoxically enough, that people not running it is one of the main reasons remaining that it's not banned, while Bargain and Grizzy are.
I think the timing delay on getting the cards and the nasty stuff it does if you don't have infinite hand size are what keep in check and around.
I don't run Mindslaver, Palinchron, Jin-Gitaxius or Vorinclex. I consider Palinchron boring and over-used, and I find the other three completely unfun. I also don't run the black sorcery that mimics Mindslaver's effect, for the same reason. I don't mind using the same effect from Sorin Markov, because if I can pull that off, that means my opponents were foolish enough to leave him in play long enough for me to go ultimate, so that's bad play on their part, not a dick move on my part.
I run many of the cards others have mentioned here, but some of them, such as Craterhoof Behemoth, are definitely starting to wear out their welcome.
I don't run Iona, because I think it is a really crappy card for the format, in addition to being unfun.
I don't think I will ever make a Derevi deck because I find Derevi as a commander obnoxious beyond words. I consider him a design error for the format.
Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
Too good when reanimated turn 1, or almost any time. He is the sole reason for Reliquary Tower in half my decks
That being said, I do run him. And reanimate him. And it feels dirty, until I remember I'm playing with people who are still capable of stopping me.
I have to agree on the Praetors. I refuse to even own copies of Jin-Gitaxias, Vorinclex, and Elesh Norn. I'm on the fence about Sheoldred. I run a copy of her in my Chainer deck, but no other stax elements, so I view it as disruption if I don't have any other solutions. And the odd thing is I haven't found a good home for Urabrask yet.
I'm also starting to feel remorse about using Capsize 2 or more times a turn in the late game with Tasigur. Especially if I have to start going after the last opponent's lands in order to keep them from slowing down their defeat (as I have a few friends that don't concede).
Not in general, per se, but I have cut them from my Daxos of Meletis deck simply because I want to use that deck to win with my opponents' cards and the swords were turning into voltron.
In a more general sense, I doubt will ever run a card like Laboratory Maniac or any of the "I win" cards, simply because I find them irritating and anti-climactic win conditions. Nor will I run Serra Ascendant, simply because I think it's a strong but fair card that interacts poorly with the format.
I'm considering cutting Iona, Shield of Emeria from my Captain Sisay build, because there have been occasions where the correct play for me was to cast Iona locking a monocolored player out of the game to save myself. It's never fun having to make that kind of chioce.
Oh, and I play cards such as Tooth and Nail in that deck, so if Iona is offensive to me, that's saying something.
There are no cards I don't play for those reasons and I don't expect it from opponents either, I like solving the puzzle that board states become in EDH and taking piece away that can play into that is not as fun.
Also I dislike winning when I know people aren't putting everything forward so I don't do that myself.
A friend of mine gets annoyed when somebody plays Blood Moon, so I made a deal with him. I only play Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon in my mono-red deck, Hidetsugu btw. My argument is that mono-red generally sucks in Commander, and it has to get any advantage it can.
I play pretty much only highly competitive duel Commander so in my eyes anything that's legal goes and I honestly don't have any cards in mind that I hate or get upset about, but I do have a rule about never myself using Sensei's Divining Top - only because it tends to take the guy with the top ages to stop fiddling with it and I'm a fan of quick games.
Interestingly enough, I avoid playing certain cards like Deadeye Navigator not because of power level, but because they are too "cliche". I prefer making decks and combos outside of norm, so overused ideas are not my thing.
Another reason being I want to make decks that no matter who I face, my opponent will always have a way of comeback; either in this match or after he/she modifies it after match. This game should be about interactions.
There are no cards I don't play for those reasons and I don't expect it from opponents either, I like solving the puzzle that board states become in EDH and taking piece away that can play into that is not as fun.
Also I dislike winning when I know people aren't putting everything forward so I don't do that myself.
Not sure that puzzle argument makes sense. If you really like puzzles wouldn't it make sense to play a wider variety of cards, generate a wider variety of situations? I think by not playing the top 5-10 powerhouses you'd find yourself doing that.
I refused to play Propheet of Kruphix when it was legal because it's a stupid card, I feel vindicated that it got banned.
I just built a R/U deck with Nin (probably changing it to Jori En) and I think I should take out Splinter Twin, I've already won several games with it, one of which I really couldn't have won otherwise, despite only finishing the deck yesterday. Kiki-Jiki is okay, he has lots of other synergies with the deck, but Splinter Twin seems a bit much.
I dislike playing Cyclonic Rift but it's just so good that every blue deck kind of needs to run it.
Interestingly enough, I avoid playing certain cards like Deadeye Navigator not because of power level, but because they are too "cliche". I prefer making decks and combos outside of norm, so overused ideas are not my thing.
Another reason being I want to make decks that no matter who I face, my opponent will always have a way of comeback; either in this match or after he/she modifies it after match. This game should be about interactions.
Ugh, this exactly. Not so much IRL, but playing on MTGO, I can almost telegraph what cards are in somebody's deck just by their commander. It's disappointing, this format used to be awesome and incredibly diverse, now it has devolved into netdecks with stupid broken combos. Why pack 99 cards into a deck of you are only going to use 10? As to the OP, many of mine have already been said, but I would just say anything that turns the game into solitaire. It's boring. How ANYBODY can play with, or against, a deck like that is beyond me. Everytime I find myself in that situation I always have the urge to invoice that player for the time of mine he has wasted. I sat down to play a game with you, not watch you.
I don't avoid tutors, but I do avoid easily-tutorable-combos. Like the Jori En list I'm working on right now runs Firemind's Foresight and Lightning Bolt, but will not run Reset or Reiterate.
The only card I'm currently really on the fence about is Eldrazi Displacer in my Rasputin Dreamweaver deck. It's just such an iWin button it's not even funny anymore.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras. Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power. Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza. Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall. Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana. Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die. Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I dislike playing Cyclonic Rift but it's just so good that every blue deck kind of needs to run it.
Sometimes it seems like blue has more staple cards than deck space.
I don't run Tooth and Nail, Jin Gitaxis, and Vorinclex. They're just too bs, to be honest. Any card that I hate going up against is a card that I won't play. Jin and Vorin are just annoying to deal with and any time one hits the board everyone else groans. T&N, I'm kind of just sick of people tutoring up an infinite combo every single time. It hit a point were T&N never resolved in my playgroup, but people kept casting that 9 mana waste of everyone's lifespan. Only time I've run T&N was in Maelstrom Wanderer, and while I had 2 possible infinite combos, I never used them. Wanderer is way to powerful to ever need infinite combos.
I typically avoid playing Necropotence and Counterbalance in multicolored decks. They're both really powerful cards that I just don't think any of my Multicolored decks needed. Monocolored decks tend to need a tiny boost that these are really good for.
There are no cards I don't play for those reasons and I don't expect it from opponents either, I like solving the puzzle that board states become in EDH and taking piece away that can play into that is not as fun.
Also I dislike winning when I know people aren't putting everything forward so I don't do that myself.
Not sure that puzzle argument makes sense. If you really like puzzles wouldn't it make sense to play a wider variety of cards, generate a wider variety of situations? I think by not playing the top 5-10 powerhouses you'd find yourself doing that.
You assume that you can't do both, that is very short sighted when it comes to Commander.
I do play some of these cards, but I play them in the decks I deem more competitive (i.e. I break them out when someone brags about how powerful and unstoppable their specific deck is or when they are playing a powerful deck also).
| Omnath | Zada | Alesha | Scion |
| Mazirek | Animar |
Modern
UR Storm RU
UBRG Dredge GRBU
Standard
UR Thermo-Thing RU
His decks are basically a combination of the cards that each of you have listed withholding something like Insurrection. He just couldn't wrap his mind around the fact that he created an unfun environment for those who were playing with him (we play Commander to escape the ultra competitive environment [we get that via our 60 card constructed decks]).
It got to the point that people literally groaned if I said that he was coming. He admitted on multiple occasions that he enjoyed the game the most when everyone around him was miserable. Not exactly the attitude for a casual multiplayer game with friends. Turns out he didn't have much going for him in the rest of his life so this was his outlet to feel success and so he didn't want to just have fun with the rest of us.
When your playgroup can only get everyone together maybe once every three weeks, you don't want to spend the time boiling
I have never run Capsize in a deck, because I have been annoyed by it in numerous games. One particular game made me hate it in particular. I was playing my Mayael deck into Riku and Oona. Both of them had ramped heavily, and they both had capsize in hand. I was unable to stick a non-land for about seven turns while they squared off. That feeling is something I do not want to inflict on other people.
I think the timing delay on getting the cards and the nasty stuff it does if you don't have infinite hand size are what keep in check and around.
I run many of the cards others have mentioned here, but some of them, such as Craterhoof Behemoth, are definitely starting to wear out their welcome.
I don't run Iona, because I think it is a really crappy card for the format, in addition to being unfun.
I don't think I will ever make a Derevi deck because I find Derevi as a commander obnoxious beyond words. I consider him a design error for the format.
i feel like its in the same category as these cards
Too good when reanimated turn 1, or almost any time. He is the sole reason for Reliquary Tower in half my decks
That being said, I do run him. And reanimate him. And it feels dirty, until I remember I'm playing with people who are still capable of stopping me.
WUBRGReaper King - Superfriends
WUBRGChild of Alara - The Nauseating Aurora
WUBSharuum the Hegemon - Christmas In Prison
WUBZur the Enchanter - Ow My Face
WRJor Kadeen, the Prevailer - Snow Goats
BRGrenzo, Dungeon Warden - International Goblin All Purpose Recycling Facility Number 12
WGSaffi Eriksdotter - Saffi Combosdotter
UPatron of the Moon - The Age of Aquarius
BHorobi, Death's Wail - Bring Out Your Dead
GSachi, Daughter of Seshiro - Sneks
I'm also starting to feel remorse about using Capsize 2 or more times a turn in the late game with Tasigur. Especially if I have to start going after the last opponent's lands in order to keep them from slowing down their defeat (as I have a few friends that don't concede).
Never felt good about playing Magister Sphinx or Serra Ascendant without house-ruling the life total referenced.
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R Zada Arcane Storm
RBU Marchesa
GWU Estrid
GWR Samut?
URB Kess
(R/W)(U/B) Akiri & Silas
BWR Alesha
R Neheb Dragons
G Nylea Wurms
W Darien
U Tetsuko
Not in general, per se, but I have cut them from my Daxos of Meletis deck simply because I want to use that deck to win with my opponents' cards and the swords were turning into voltron.
In a more general sense, I doubt will ever run a card like Laboratory Maniac or any of the "I win" cards, simply because I find them irritating and anti-climactic win conditions. Nor will I run Serra Ascendant, simply because I think it's a strong but fair card that interacts poorly with the format.
Oh, and I play cards such as Tooth and Nail in that deck, so if Iona is offensive to me, that's saying something.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Also I dislike winning when I know people aren't putting everything forward so I don't do that myself.
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Another reason being I want to make decks that no matter who I face, my opponent will always have a way of comeback; either in this match or after he/she modifies it after match. This game should be about interactions.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Not sure that puzzle argument makes sense. If you really like puzzles wouldn't it make sense to play a wider variety of cards, generate a wider variety of situations? I think by not playing the top 5-10 powerhouses you'd find yourself doing that.
I just built a R/U deck with Nin (probably changing it to Jori En) and I think I should take out Splinter Twin, I've already won several games with it, one of which I really couldn't have won otherwise, despite only finishing the deck yesterday. Kiki-Jiki is okay, he has lots of other synergies with the deck, but Splinter Twin seems a bit much.
I dislike playing Cyclonic Rift but it's just so good that every blue deck kind of needs to run it.
Ugh, this exactly. Not so much IRL, but playing on MTGO, I can almost telegraph what cards are in somebody's deck just by their commander. It's disappointing, this format used to be awesome and incredibly diverse, now it has devolved into netdecks with stupid broken combos. Why pack 99 cards into a deck of you are only going to use 10? As to the OP, many of mine have already been said, but I would just say anything that turns the game into solitaire. It's boring. How ANYBODY can play with, or against, a deck like that is beyond me. Everytime I find myself in that situation I always have the urge to invoice that player for the time of mine he has wasted. I sat down to play a game with you, not watch you.
The only card I'm currently really on the fence about is Eldrazi Displacer in my Rasputin Dreamweaver deck. It's just such an iWin button it's not even funny anymore.
Sometimes it seems like blue has more staple cards than deck space.
I don't run Tooth and Nail, Jin Gitaxis, and Vorinclex. They're just too bs, to be honest. Any card that I hate going up against is a card that I won't play. Jin and Vorin are just annoying to deal with and any time one hits the board everyone else groans. T&N, I'm kind of just sick of people tutoring up an infinite combo every single time. It hit a point were T&N never resolved in my playgroup, but people kept casting that 9 mana waste of everyone's lifespan. Only time I've run T&N was in Maelstrom Wanderer, and while I had 2 possible infinite combos, I never used them. Wanderer is way to powerful to ever need infinite combos.
I typically avoid playing Necropotence and Counterbalance in multicolored decks. They're both really powerful cards that I just don't think any of my Multicolored decks needed. Monocolored decks tend to need a tiny boost that these are really good for.
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain
B Toshiro Umezawa
BG Pharika, God of Affliction - Necromancy and Politics
WWW The Church of Heliod
WBR Zurgo, Helmsmasher
RG Wort, the Raidmother
UBR Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge
UG Vorel of the Hull Clade
This, tutors ruin the casual side of the highlander format. Tutoring to find land from Farseek, different story. Crop Rotation Yeah, no thanks.
Force of Will and Misdirection just make it so much more powerful.
Keep brewing.
You assume that you can't do both, that is very short sighted when it comes to Commander.