MTG Salvation

SO, I finally "finished" my first EDH deck, Rhys, the Redeemed the other day. By finished, I mean I finally have every card I intended for the deck instead of playing replacements for stuff I couldnt find/afford. Not i'm onto tweaking, black bordering, and foiling, as well as looking at suspect cards that just aren't as good (Probably should have done this while building, but, oh well.) Anyways, I run a Fellwar Stone, and, have no way to steal an opponents card, so, it's just a glorified T: Colorless source. So, I was thinking of replacing it with another 2 mana rock.

Thought Vessel: Essentially what I have now, but with unlimited hand size. Admittedly, I don't need the extra hand size in this deck often enough.

Coldsteel Heart I'm not often using Fellwar Stone the turn I play it, so this could get me a color I need at the sacrifice of not being able to use it the turn I play it.

Everflowing Chalice Also just like having my Fellwar Stone, but it could randomly become a monster because I play Doubling Season in the deck.

Mind Stone: Would get me a colorless, and late game could provide a valuable draw that I may need.

Talisman of Unity: The most versatile option, fixing my colors at the cost of a small amount of Life (could be relevant as I play against Marchesa often, and could keep me off the Throne, and I have plenty of lifegain with Trostani) or gets me a colorless when I don't need color fixing.


I'm torn on what to pick, so I wanted to see what others thought would be the best replacement. I'll probably post up my whole decklist in the decklist forum later today, since i'm also looking for feedback on the deck and other potential cards I may have missed in my research of building the deck.

Thanks everyone!

Decklist: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/672344-rhys-the-redeemed-token-swarm

Are you already running Selesnya Signet? Because I would go there first. After that, I like Mind Stone the best of the 2CMC rocks. Not being a dead draw in the late game is a very good upside for a mana rock to have.

When I'm looking at CMC 2 rocks, it really comes down to whether or not I need coloured mana. Fellwar Stone's strength is that it can provide colours (and for the record, it can't produce colourless since the Rule 4 change) while not ETBing tapped, albeit with the caveat you're dependent on your opponents for the colours. If you feel you need the coloured mana, then the Talsiman cycle is the best assuming you're in allied colours (especially now the ability to tap for C can be relevant) and the Signets second IMO.

With regards the colourless ones, I probably put Everflowing Chalice top, thanks to it's ability to scale (the Doubling Season interaction is cute, but not something to really consider when judging the card), with Mind Stone second for the ability to turn it into draw if needed. Thought Vessel doesn't really impress me, but then I've never considered hand size increases to be that powerful. It's not a bad card by any means, but there are a fair few better options in the CMC2 mana rock slot.

Though, given that you're in G are rocks the best option? I dunno if you're already running them, but CMC2 land searching like Nature's Lore or Farseek (or if you've got cash to burn, Three Visits) can get you both colours together while making you less vulnerable to artifact destruction. Of course, if Armageddons are common in your games, then the opposite applies.

Quote from 256k »

Are you already running Selesnya Signet? Because I would go there first. After that, I like Mind Stone the best of the 2CMC rocks. Not being a dead draw in the late game is a very good upside for a mana rock to have.

I just realized I don't have Signet in here, so that is definately an option.

Quote from PhroX »

Though, given that you're in G are rocks the best option? I dunno if you're already running them, but CMC2 land searching like Nature's Lore or Farseek (or if you've got cash to burn, Three Visits) can get you both colours together while making you less vulnerable to artifact destruction. Of course, if Armageddons are common in your games, then the opposite applies.

This is a good point. I'm running 3CMC land fetch in Kodama's Reach and Cultivate, and Sakura-Tribe Elder at 2CMC. Maybe running a 2CMC Fetch a "Forest" or "Plains" is a better option, as I do run all 3 Dual Lands with basic land types.

Assuming that you are looking specifically for a 2 CMC card that can tap for 1 mana (as opposed to something like Grim Monolith that can tap for lots of mana), I would go with the following in this order:
Selesnya Signet
Talisman of Unity
Everflowing Chalice
Mind Stone

If your color-fixing is good enough, then you can ignore the Signet and Talisman and go with the Chalice. I would not consider Coldsteel Heart or Thought Vessel for this kind of deck.

Of course, I would only run those after running Rampant Growth, Farseek, Nature's Lore, Into the North (with Arctic Flats), and Three Visits.

My list:

Selesnya Signet
Mind Stone
Everflowing Chalice
Talisman of Unity
Coldsteel Heart
Thought Vessel

If you play Shamanic Revelation, Collective Unconscious, and the like, Thought Vessel becomes the obvious choice. If you need mana fixing, Selesnya Signet, followed by Coldsteel Heart.

Why not Sol Ring? It's the only mana rock I'd run in your deck. I wouldn't consider running any of the rocks you've mentioned in a Selesnya deck. You're probably going to be a lot better off with a Priest of Titania. It taps for at least 1, 2 if you have your general out, and potentially a lot more. A Wood Elves would fetch a dual for you. Even a Birds of Paradise would probably be better since it taps for both colors, can block in the air, or swing in the air if you have a global pump.

Green has way better mana ramp than rocks unless you play in some weird meta where mass land destruction is more common than artifact destruction. I'll comment on your full list later.

As far as your actual question, I'd probably go chalice first, then signet or talisman if you need the colored mana, then probably Star Compass.

Quote from Darkprophet »

Anyways, I run a Fellwar Stone, and, have no way to steal an opponents card, so, it's just a glorified T: Colorless source. So, I was thinking of replacing it with another 2 mana rock.

Let's question this premise right here, since your desire to replace the rock is based on it. How is stealing an opponent's card relevant to Fellwar Stone?

Quote from lyonhaert »

Let's question this premise right here, since your desire to replace the rock is based on it. How is stealing an opponent's card relevant to Fellwar Stone?

Fellwar Stone can provide colored mana for any activated abilities on stolen cards after the recent rules change, as long as the card's owner can produce their colors. If you're not doing that, it's just a rock that sometimes gives you one or both of your colors instead of colorless. There are much better reasons to replace it in this deck, but it is a valid reason.

I would drop the mana rock entirely and run Joraga Treespeaker in its place. Comes down cheap, provides an amount of mana equal to its leveling cost, and can turn all of your Rhys tokens into an enormous amount of mana late. It's not going to ramp you by turn 2, but Fellwar Stone was realistically not going to do that either. If you're just looking for the best mana rock you can run, Sol Ring is your choice. I can get behind people choosing not to run Sol Ring because it's definitely broken, but that's an out of game concern.

Quote from Underhill83 »

I can unterstand that people play Sol Ring over Mana Crypt because of money. But that is an out of game concern...

Did you even look at the deck list? The only worthwhile plays off of a T1 Crypt + land are Cultivate, Kodama's Reach, and Frontline Medic. Two of those are powerful plays, the third is effectively giving you a Lava Spike that you wouldn't otherwise have. This isn't a deck built for fast starts or even fast games. It has minimal ramp with 4 cards that cost 8+. The downside of Crypt in a list like that is more severe than the downside of Sol Ring. It has nothing to do with the cost of the cards. The more expensive card is not always the better card.

That said, if you're just looking for the best chance at an explosive start, running both is accurate. That's not what this thread is about though.

Mana Crypt and Sol Ring are the best, but if you already have those, you may want to consider Mana Vault and Grim Monolith: they are very "bursty" but burst wins games. The best rock out of the ones you mentioned is Mind Stone because of its pseudocycling ability.